Guild Wars 2

So if you’ve been into PvP lately, you’ve probably noticed these sturdy Elementalist who are quite unkillable (myself being one of them). Although traits have a lot to do with it, as well as your utilities, one major factor to this is Ether Renewal, one of our healing skills.

I, personally, think it’s just too good. Not only can it be used while moving now, but it also removes 5-6 conditions (I can’t really count how many pulses there are) and heals you very well. It also has an extremely short cooldown of 15 seconds.

I suggest reducing the heal slightly per pulse, or increasing the cooldown by about 5 or 10 seconds. Other suggestions?

Yes here a suggestion!
Learn to play really! A 3s channeling skill beg for interrupt, don’t blame the profession for the lack of skills of others, you’re “unkillable” because you play only zerg sPvP against r10+ opponents who spamm their auto-attack, there are dozen of skill that can be used to interrupt ER:

-Push-
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Push

-Daze-
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Daze

-Fear-
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fear

-Knockdown-
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knockdown

-Launch-
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Launch

-Pull-
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pull

-Stun-
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun

How much more help baddies need?
What a shock the community in this game, I use to play mesmer in GW1 and interrupt 3/4s casting time skills on a monk…in this game people whine that they can’t interrupt a 3s channeling skills with so many freaking short CD interrupts distributed among all professions…this is just one of the many reason why GW1 PvP > GW2 PvP

Here is a suggestion:
1v1 dm ranked que.
Nerf bat on any class that has too high representation in top100 and top500.
Buff bat on any class that has too low representation in top100 and top500.

Once 1v1 is balanced, balance 2v2 (and 3v3) by tweaking combo fields (finisher %, strength of fields etc) and aoe aspects of skills and utilities (buffs/dmg) by diminishing returns on aoe effects.

Once 2v2 is balanced, balance 5v5 (and 3v3) by further tweaking aoe aspects of skills and utilites (further diminishing returns on hitting 4th and 5th guy).

There is no need for individual opinions and nonsense on forums. Objective measurement of balance and proper actions to bring about the balance are needed.
I also think d/d eles and mesmers need severe nerfs, but that is just my opinion. Reality may show that I am completely wrong, and only biased by my own point of view.

Pffff!
Losing to FOTM d/d eles how terrible….but the most funny thing is people who think ele start and end at d/d…..how sad, let them cry about d/d for now, before they were crying for staff eles..and before that they were crying for s/d eles, in the end baddies will always find something to cry about.

But their crying will never end, good eles can adapt, they switch from one weapon set to the other, good players> bad players…you can nerf eles as much as you want.

Not even Anet developers themself know what to nerf anymore to make happy the F1-2-2-2-2 kiddies

@Arheundel.6451
I am not losing to them, just takes a lot of effort to defeat mindless button mashing (rotating same kitten while watching the grass grow) that can be done by simple bot/macro.

In other words 90% d/d ele takes much much more effort to defeat than for example 90% thief, or 90% warrior, or 90% ranger or 90% engi…

I simply do not think that mindless rotation of same skills without much reaction to what opponent is doing (such is dodging big hits of the enemy, or deciding WHEN to apply which skill based on what enemy is doing) should lead to such good results. It indicates, in my opinion, that class is simply out of balance. I should have about the same effort expenditure and feel the same amount of ‘threat’ when defeating average (or 90-th%) player of any class.

Mufa.1326:

@Arheundel.6451
I am not losing to them, just takes a lot of effort to defeat mindless button mashing (rotating same kitten while watching the grass grow) that can be done by simple bot/macro.

In other words 90% d/d ele takes much much more effort to defeat than for example 90% thief, or 90% warrior, or 90% ranger or 90% engi…

I simply do not think that mindless rotation of same skills without much reaction to what opponent is doing (such is dodging big hits of the enemy, or deciding WHEN to apply which skill based on what enemy is doing) should lead to such good results. It indicates, in my opinion, that class is simply out of balance. I should have about the same effort expenditure and feel the same amount of ‘threat’ when defeating average (or 90-th%) player of any class.

Bad eles are easy to beat once you figure out exactly how they rotate and what utilities they have.

They can be a pain to take out only because it takes more time. I mean the bunker ele will go down, just will take longer than say a burst specced thief. DD eles do have one major weakness I know to exploit (I am sure there are more), just make sure you have something to negate the boons they have. On my mesmer (which I am now in love with), I always rock out with the staff, and null field, really helps with with bunkers who need those boons.

Do they need fine tuning? maybe, but I would fix a lot of the broken traits first and see how every class stands once they are “sorted”.

And what rotation you need to watch out at all costs?
If you lose to a d/d ele spamming skills randomly, you really need to improve your gameplay, if I can dodge a d/d ele without even watching him..it means there is something terribly wrong in your gameplay.
You really think with a 1vs1 mode you’d see eles on top? Hilarious!

This profession has not received any major buff since the beginning , from BWE1 we seen only huge nerfs and slighty buffs there and there, while professions like : mesmer-thief-engineer have received huge improvement in their utilities-trait-elites, professions like eles have seen nothing but nerfs :

Utilities:
arcane= dmg decrease/CD increase
cantrips= cleansing fire: CD increase, conditions cleansed from all to 3, armour of earth: stability/protection duration reduction, mist form : CD increase
signets= signet of water: condition cleansed from 1 every 3s to 1 every 10s
glyphs= kittenty as they were at start, no chance
elites= tornado: dmg reduction, speed reduction; elementals: fire elemental dmg reduction
trait= lingering elements from 5 arcane to 10 arcane; arcane lightning from 10% crit dmg to 3% crit dmg every 10s; stop drop and roll from all conditions removed 10 water to burning/chill removed every 10s only 20 water
weapon= scepter dmg decrease, focus CD increase, staff dmg decrease+activation time increase etc etc etc

Without any major buffs..eles have gone from “free kill” to “OP”..amazing

yep the heal is good now..but save a cc for when he heals up and you are bound to win!
its nothing sort of op at least the way things other classes have.It just means you need to adapt your rotations a bit..
Besides that, most times the s/d bunker build that is admittetly out of control is using the healing signet instead of ether..

btw in cases you scrubs dont know it if you interrupt it it goes in full cooldown and the ele wont have a self heal at all..
:)

The game would be better balanced if all professions just have auto-attack.

Arheundel.6451:

This profession has not received any major buff since the beginning , from BWE1 we seen only huge nerfs and slighty buffs there and there, while professions like : mesmer-thief-engineer have received huge improvement in their utilities-trait-elites, professions like eles have seen nothing but nerfs :

Utilities:
arcane= dmg decrease/CD increase
cantrips= cleansing fire: CD increase, conditions cleansed from all to 3, armour of earth: stability/protection duration reduction, mist form : CD increase
signets= signet of water: condition cleansed from 1 every 3s to 1 every 10s
glyphs= kittenty as they were at start, no chance
elites= tornado: dmg reduction, speed reduction; elementals: fire elemental dmg reduction
trait= lingering elements from 5 arcane to 10 arcane; arcane lightning from 10% crit dmg to 3% crit dmg every 10s; stop drop and roll from all conditions removed 10 water to burning/chill removed every 10s only 20 water
weapon= scepter dmg decrease, focus CD increase, staff dmg decrease+activation time increase etc etc etc

Without any major buffs..eles have gone from “free kill” to “OP”..amazing

Could you list the engie buffs please? starting with the 30% nerf to nades, and work if from there please. Fanks.

They buffed our toolkit, thats about it.

They nerfed our grenade twice, they nerfed our heal, they nerfed our smoke bomb.

Yet we are the least represented class in tpvp. Not saying we are bad, but each fotm build we had got nerfed. So pleasd don’t name us as “buffed”.

And please don’t nerf us anymore

Leuca.5732: Bad anything is easy.
DaliIndica.9041: Well, not all classes sport amazing boon strapping abilities.
Arheundel.6451: You are simply talking nonsense which I addressed elsewhere. Dodging anything in particular is not a problem. The problem with d/d ele is having enough dodges to dodge everything that needs dodging. I calculated on other topic that dodging only some of the more problematic stuff d/d ele throws out (usually as aoe) (talking here knowckdowns, high dmg aoe, chills, snares), one needs about 1 dodge every 3 sec. Problem is that we get about 1 dodge every 10 seconds.

Now, since you strike me as a guy who has issues understanding simple things, let me give you a super simple example in the hope it hits the spot: Just take ‘burning speed’ + ‘earthquake’. Usually earth is followed by fire, if you get hit by earthquake, you will eat burning speed unless you use the stunbreaker. So you have to dodge earthquake, as well as burning speeds. In order to dodge earthquake and burning speeds, you need to (stay with me) dodge about once every 11.25 sec. Soo..just two of your skills eat up pretty much all of my dodges. What about dodging other stuff…like your aoe chill, or your churning earth, or…i dunno dragon breath + fire grab etc….you are simpy out of dodges. Do you get the picture? Good, now imagine what effect 2 elementalists on a point have since most of their stuff is aoe. Now suddenly everyone needs dodge every 1.5sec or so, and even if they had them, they would be doing nothing but dodging what 2 eles are throwing around while watching the grass grow.

And in general: I play ppl who main other classes and also have d/d ele. I can tell you this: It is much much easier to kill them on their mains who they spent more than 3x time on then on their d/d eles. They tell me class is severely OP, just takes time to learn the rotation. That is pretty much enough of data for me to conclude what I conclude. But, as I said, we need proper 1v1 ranked que in order to get objective data.

So basically you want to nerf the mechanic (attunement swapping) that defines the elementalist. Because we have 20 skills that are accessible at any time (if you’re not on attunement cd of course) they must all be barely stronger than another class’s auto attack, right? Anet forbid eles do anything except bunker and be countered by all classes.

3 seconds? Truth is, ele weapon skills have longer cooldowns than every other weapon set. Most of the CCs and high hitting skills you actually need to dodge are on 40+ seconds cd. If you’re having trouble with other skills, that means you’re getting outlasted and outplayed which is what the high survivability build is designed to do. Churning earth is 30 seconds but that’s stupid easy to dodge. Burning speed will only do damage from a certain distance, you usually won’t see this used on every cooldown available, and only does moderate damage. Increase the cd on burning speed so you don’t dodge every 11.25 sec as you say? Then I propose we also increase the cd on shatters and every other moderate-high burst or utility weapon skills with low cd no matter how easy it might be dodge.

You said it yourself earth is usually followed by fire. You won’t see a burning speed after an earthquake. Assuming you meant fire followed by earth (not usually the case in a typical rotation) even if you did eat an earthquake, you won’t be taking a burning speed because earthquake is melee range and the actual blast of burning speed is where the ele lands. In fact, in 1v1 against other eles, I don’t even bother to stun break earthquake. The only thing I’d be afraid of that follows earthquake is a grounded + cleansing fire + fire grab combo.

Of course fighting a fotm 0/10/0/30/30 d/d ele hard because no matter how you want to twist it, that is a bunker trait setup. Try fighting those guys again when they don’t build x/x/x/30/30(20) with double or triple cantrips and see how long it takes you to down them. Assuming you can down all classes at a particular skill level, I’d wager on the elementalists going down the fastest. As an extra tidbit: if you’re not having trouble with any classes, that means your class is op.

I’m glad Anet isn’t tasting every wine on the forums, especially those that pretend to be of high quality but are actually quite cheap.

Aurum.8793:

So if you’ve been into PvP lately, you’ve probably noticed these sturdy Elementalist who are quite unkillable (myself being one of them).

Yeah right.

Yes, what i mean is that ppl follow up earth with fire. They start with air, earth fire water. And yes burning speed does follow earthquake. And yes, they first gain a bit of distance so that their blast hits me if I do not break stun on earthquake.
And yes they are ‘fotm’ eles X/30/30. It does not matter if other builds die fast, if that one is OP.
As for me not having trouble beating any class: it does not mean my class is op. I have the least trouble beating my own class.

Mufa.1326:

Yes, what i mean is that ppl follow up earth with fire. They start with air, earth fire water. And yes burning speed does follow earthquake. And yes, they first gain a bit of distance so that their blast hits me if I do not break stun on earthquake.
And yes they are ‘fotm’ eles X/30/30. It does not matter if other builds die fast, if that one is OP.
As for me not having trouble beating any class: it does not mean my class is op. I have the least trouble beating my own class.

Dude your QQ level is out of control, it’s always about eles. You play a thief, and you want to talk about not having enough dodges? How about spammable 7k heart seekers? Have fun dodging all those, not too mention with 5-10 thieves in a game (lol) players don’t have enough stun breaks or dodges in the world to dodge all that. I know I play a thief in tourneys occasionally as well, and I know how heart seeker hits.

You QQ because you can’t global a build that is built to survive. These ungodly eles that are killing you in an earthquake burning speed combo, (lol I’m covered up to my ears in all this bs, earthquake is melee range, nobody is doing earthquake burning speed, you even say “they back up to gain space for burning speed” do you know how dumb that sounds?? If eles are doing earthquake—>back pedaling —→ burning speed and that is owning you then you have way bigger problems) these godly eles are not running 0 10 0 30 30, because that spec is built around outlasting and hits like a wet noodle. So the eles that are wrecking you with burning speed are specced GC, and therefore are even MORE squishier than your thief.

You don’t know what you are talking about when you QQ about the ele class, and it’s obvious. You found a spec that is made to counter burst and is strong against thieves (time to adapt and you might actually have to do what all the thieves tell everyone else, gasp change your build!)

Arheundel.6451:

Yes here a suggestion!
Learn to play really! A 3s channeling skill beg for interrupt, don’t blame the profession for the lack of skills of others, you’re “unkillable” because you play only zerg sPvP against r10+ opponents who spamm their auto-attack, there are dozen of skill that can be used to interrupt ER:

-Push-
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Push

-Daze-
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Daze

-Fear-
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fear

-Knockdown-
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knockdown

-Launch-
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Launch

-Pull-
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pull

-Stun-
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun

How much more help baddies need?
What a shock the community in this game, I use to play mesmer in GW1 and interrupt 3/4s casting time skills on a monk…in this game people whine that they can’t interrupt a 3s channeling skills with so many freaking short CD interrupts distributed among all professions…this is just one of the many reason why GW1 PvP > GW2 PvP

First of all, I don’t think D/D-Eles are inherently too strong – but there are a few things I don’t like about the build, at the top of that list is perma-fury and Ether Renewal.

In a D/D-build, you are able to run 3 very defensive Utilities and still do enough DMG, which allows you to use Flash, Armor of Earth and Mist Form. Together with Armor of Earth at 50% Health (from Earth’s Embrace), you get enough Situations to be able to cast Ether Renewal during big fights, without having to fear of ever being interrupted.

It all comes back to the fact that the D/D-Ele can run very defensive Equip, Traits and Utilities and still do effective DPS, because of the perma-fury though. It even goes as far as a D/D-Ele being almost a necessity in Teamfights because the Perma-Fury is granted to allies as well. There are only 2 builds I can think of with Perma- and AoE-Fury and it’s the D/D-Ele and certain Powerranger-builds with the Moa-Pet and I really think that the D/D-Ele doesn’t need it.

That being said, there are way more pressing balancing-Issues IMHO…

Wait, there’s ele’s that use ether renewal? wtf?

pffft, signet heal all the way, heal through casting imo.

Braxxus.2904:

Wait, there’s ele’s that use ether renewal? wtf?

pffft, signet heal all the way, heal through casting imo.

Just because in the current Metagame, nobody really plays conditions anymore… There might be a Necro on many Teams, so if you play the Ele as an offensive roamer, that will often fight Necro’s, Ether Renewal is incredibly strong, because it gives you an Auto-win on most Builds.

Ppl will most likely neglect Condi-Remove even more in the near future, until others realize it and go for a lot of sustain and heavy condition-builds, totally bashing most glass-cannon builds and punish Teams for not running enough Condi-Removal.

PowerBottom.5796:

Just because in the current Metagame, nobody really plays conditions anymore… There might be a Necro on many Teams, so if you play the Ele as an offensive roamer, that will often fight Necro’s, Ether Renewal is incredibly strong, because it gives you an Auto-win on most Builds.

Ppl will most likely neglect Condi-Remove even more in the near future, until others realize it and go for a lot of sustain and heavy condition-builds, totally bashing most glass-cannon builds and punish Teams for not running enough Condi-Removal.

Between cleansing fire, cleansing 2 condi’s every time we switch to water, and water5 I’ve never really noticed needing more condi removal tbh. Typically anytime there’s a large stack I need to burn off I can do it at will.

Braxxus.2904:

PowerBottom.5796:

Just because in the current Metagame, nobody really plays conditions anymore… There might be a Necro on many Teams, so if you play the Ele as an offensive roamer, that will often fight Necro’s, Ether Renewal is incredibly strong, because it gives you an Auto-win on most Builds.

Ppl will most likely neglect Condi-Remove even more in the near future, until others realize it and go for a lot of sustain and heavy condition-builds, totally bashing most glass-cannon builds and punish Teams for not running enough Condi-Removal.

Between cleansing fire, cleansing 2 condi’s every time we switch to water, and water5 I’ve never really noticed needing more condi removal tbh. Typically anytime there’s a large stack I need to burn off I can do it at will.

Thats true in the current Meta – u don’t really need more. But even 1 Engi alone will give you more conditions you can ever remove alone without Ether Renewal. If ppl start to play Condition-Spam Teambuilds, you’ll need a lot more as a sustain-Char that has almost no Vita und gets countered extremely hard by Poison and everything that hinders movement (as a D/D-Ele).

Really, If ppl still haven’t figured out, that the D/D-Ele is strong and used often enough to warrant certain counters being implemented in your Builds, they are simply wrong.

It’s actually quite easy to almost totally counter a D/D-Ele: Just use movement-impairing Skills and you will kill almost all his sustained DPS and even make DPS-Spikes much harder to land for the D/D, here are some good examples:

- Cantrips + Small Cantrips on Dodge on a Thief (if you run the Thief with Poison-Fields and the Trait that applies Weakness if you Poison a foe, you’ve pretty much hard-countered the Ele: Movement denied, Healing heavily impaired by Poison and -50% Endurance-reg and the Ele is gone)
- Ice-Trap and Spike Trap on the Ranger (he has Poison as well)
- Ice-Fields on Staff-Ele
- Box of Nails + another Box of Nails when you switch to the Tool Kit on a Condition-Engi (Also has enough Poison)
- Lineback-Guard with tons of Cripple, Immobilize and Stuns
- Even Necro with Chilled, Boon-removal and Poison+Weakness as well.

Yes, these are all counters that don’t work in every circumstance, but if you run a Team with enough Sustain and Teamfight-Potential, the D/D-Ele really shouldn’t be a big Problem and that’s exactly why I run a S/D-Ele. He’s not as good as D/D if ppl don’t counter the D/D-Ele, but he is much harder to counter and therefore more versatile and less gimmicky.

one of the reason Ele is strong is that he “CAN” and offten is specced well ballanced.

There is no other class that have
- decent DMG output
- hudge mobility
- CC
- Lots of buff (pernament furry, nice swiftness, protection, regeneration when needed)
- more ways how to healthemselfs (not only skil nr. 6)
- lot of abilities to cleans condition from themselfs and also allies
- Best downed mode in game

So technically you have all and you are decent at it or best. I dont blame eles for that. But its true that sometimes i feel pretty bad when fighting them. If the player know what to do and when to avoid burst.. then its just GG and there is not that much i can do against it.

If you count it.. there is no other class that can be specced like this in whole game. Even Guardians are not that strong as they will be missing mobility or the decent damage, or cleasnsing …

negative side of it? you light armor and going with 14k HP. Well.. thats not an issue if you know how to play it.

Aragiel.6132:

one of the reason Ele is strong is that he “CAN” and offten is specced well ballanced.

There is no other class that have
- decent DMG output
- hudge mobility
- CC
- Lots of buff (pernament furry, nice swiftness, protection, regeneration when needed)
- more ways how to healthemselfs (not only skil nr. 6)
- lot of abilities to cleans condition from themselfs and also allies
- Best downed mode in game

So technically you have all and you are decent at it or best. I dont blame eles for that. But its true that sometimes i feel pretty bad when fighting them. If the player know what to do and when to avoid burst.. then its just GG and there is not that much i can do against it.

If you count it.. there is no other class that can be specced like this in whole game. Even Guardians are not that strong as they will be missing mobility or the decent damage, or cleasnsing …

negative side of it? you light armor and going with 14k HP. Well.. thats not an issue if you know how to play it.

Yes, the Ele has an easier time to come up with balanced/sustain-builds, but it’s simply not true that other Chars can’t do that as well:

- Ranger: Has builds with extremely good Teamsupport (AoE-Reg, Condi-remove and vigor on the Healing Spring, Quickness-Rezzes and Quickness-stomps every 15 Seconds, strong DPS with Condition and Power-builds, Perma-AoE-Fury and very high mobility).
- Guardian: Yes, mobility is a Problem, but just Right-Hand-Strength alone makes it possible to run extremely tanky builds that still do enough DPS. Because if you’re not running a Char with perma-fury or a total Class-Cannon with Zerker-Amu, your Crit-Chance is by far the highest DMG-Multiplicator in the game and the Guard gets 15 basically for free. There is no build that can run so much tanky equip and traits and still get over 40% Crit-Chance very easily, even without any fury at all. You can even run the Guard with decent mobility (Retreat or Staff for Swiftness and about 2 strong Blinks; sword 2 and Judges Intervention)
- Thief: There are decen’t Condition-builds that aren’t glassy, have perma-swiftness, the usual Teleports and insane Teamfight-Potential.
- Engi: I don’t know why ppl stopped playing the Engi: He has insane Teamfight-Potential, one of the best Rezzes in the game and Perma Swiftness/Vigor and you can build him basically as tanky as you wish. It’s a bit hard to get enough Condi-Remove on him (and with enough, I mean enough to get rid of at least some Conditions), but other than that, Engis are awesome Sustain/Teamfight-Chars
- Warriors: There are tons of good tanky/sustain War Builds with good Mobility – You can go for the Elite Rez, Shouts that Heal for 1.5k, Quickness-Stomps etc.

There are tons more builds like those out there, but nobody plays these Chars and they complain about aspects of the Ele, that they shouldn’t complain about.

PowerBottom.5796:

Aragiel.6132:

one of the reason Ele is strong is that he “CAN” and offten is specced well ballanced.

There is no other class that have
- decent DMG output
- hudge mobility
- CC
- Lots of buff (pernament furry, nice swiftness, protection, regeneration when needed)
- more ways how to healthemselfs (not only skil nr. 6)
- lot of abilities to cleans condition from themselfs and also allies
- Best downed mode in game

So technically you have all and you are decent at it or best. I dont blame eles for that. But its true that sometimes i feel pretty bad when fighting them. If the player know what to do and when to avoid burst.. then its just GG and there is not that much i can do against it.

If you count it.. there is no other class that can be specced like this in whole game. Even Guardians are not that strong as they will be missing mobility or the decent damage, or cleasnsing …

negative side of it? you light armor and going with 14k HP. Well.. thats not an issue if you know how to play it.

Yes, the Ele has an easier time to come up with balanced/sustain-builds, but it’s simply not true that other Chars can’t do that as well:

That’s not true I’d say, actually it’s the contrary.
To come up with a balanced build for ele you need to take in consideration many more factors compared to other professions:
-low HP
-low armor
-low base dmg

Your build must include traits and utilities which cover you under each of them while maintaning a certain efficiency of execution and this include the rate of change between attunements, how much fast is enough to change attunement?how much toughness? how much HP? These and many more questions must be answered before you can even thinking of running an ele.

Other professions have it easy, with innate defensive mechanism ( stealth-clones), higher HP or amor. Against a well played necro that fotm d/d build will last few secs, when talking about well played necros I’m referring to those rare necros that will time every single well/fear to the millisecond so that a build with 14k HP last 5-6s max

In tPvP that 14k HP won’t last you at all, a called spike ( once realized you’re out of stun breakers) and you’re out, that fotm build is very good in zerg Pvp where you rarely get focused fire with efficiency.

Also I don’t know where this huge mobility come from, eles got only a 1200 range movement skill, a 600 range dash and 900 range pull( toward them)…nothing more impressive than a shortbow thief-GS warrior..or sword/XX ranger.
Also engineers and rangers can easily achieve perma regeneration and protection with the same defensive build mindset..and dunno why nobody even mentioned them, I believe most professions who use boons duration increase runes and traits can achieve perma boon status..so why only the ele get mentioned as the only profession capable of doing so?

what you describe is that other classess have like 2-3 maybe 4 of those abilities. While Ele has them all in one build.
Lets count it

Ranger: condi remove + aoe regen + quickstomp = 3 points
Guardian: Tanky + DPS = 2 points
Thief: condi build + tanky + perma swift + mobility = 4 points
Engi: ressurect, perma swift, self condi removal = 2,5 points (only selfish condi removal)
Warrior: mobility, Elite rez, shout heals, quickstomp = 4 points

now standard D/D ele.
- decent DMG output
- hudge mobility
- CC
- Lots of buff (pernament furry, nice swiftness, protection, regeneration when needed)
- more ways how to healthemselfs (not only skil nr. 6)
- lot of abilities to cleans condition from themselfs and also allies
- Best downed mode in game

= very easily 7 points.

OF course i made it a bit obvious ans some aspect can´t be comparet with others. But you see where im going? All classes have like 2 areas maybe 3 where they are good at and rest is their weaknes. While Ele can spec into all of them and still be usefull. Its the most versatille class.

Im not really calling for nerfs or blaming it. Im just pointing out that this is the reason people find it very good and thats the reason you want them in team instead of other classes. Why would you for example take Warrior when Ele just outshine him ?

I talk with numbers as facts in mind , I don’t use sparkly animations to evaluate balance

You talk about CC?
Engineers and Rangers got far more CC than a simple d/d ele, a hammer warrior can stunlock a target if so desired, a guardian hammer with spirit weapon can do same thing with, a 15s CD KD on command

You talk about mobility?
Ele= RTL 1200 range, Burning speed 600 range…magnetic grasp need target so…
Warrior= Whirlwind attack 450 range, Rush 1200 range
Ranger/Engineer= perma swiftness if so desired

You talk about dmg?
All professions you mention got “decent dmg” as base, as a matter of fact ( admitted by the same developers) eles got the lowest base dmg on auto-attack..

You talk about buffs?
…fotm d/d eles use every single trait that grant regeneration/protection, it’s a build with survival in mind, on his own the profession gives no boon..so what are you on about?If I use a survival build+ runes which increase boons duration..what do you expect?

Ele
•We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elemetnalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage.

The profession has been designed with support in mind…it’s logical we’ve got traits specific to the job ( powerful auras, cleansing wave ect ect)

Aragiel.6132:

Ranger: condi remove + aoe regen + quickstomp = 3 points
Guardian: Tanky + DPS = 2 points
Thief: condi build + tanky + perma swift + mobility = 4 points
Engi: ressurect, perma swift, self condi removal = 2,5 points (only selfish condi removal)
Warrior: mobility, Elite rez, shout heals, quickstomp = 4 points

now standard D/D ele.
- decent DMG output
- hudge mobility
- CC
- Lots of buff (pernament furry, nice swiftness, protection, regeneration when needed)
- more ways how to healthemselfs (not only skil nr. 6)
- lot of abilities to cleans condition from themselfs and also allies
- Best downed mode in game

= very easily 7 points.

Well, you just counted random things on the Ele, I can do that too on other classes:

- Ranger (Power with Longbow+Sword/Warhorn):
1) AoE Fury
2) AoE Swiftness
3) AoE Reg (almost permanent)
4) AoE-Vigor
5) Quickness-rez
6) Quickness-stomps
7) huge AoE Crowd-Control with Muddy Terrain and Longbow 5
8) Ability to recap points much easier with insane Knockback on Longbow 4 and the Fear of the Wolf+Immobilize/cripple of Muddy Terrain
9) Almost immune to conditions

Engi (standard Teldo-build)
1) Selfrez and Ally-Rez in one Skill
2) Heavy AoE
3) Perma-Swiftness
4) Perma-Vigor
5) Good CC/Knockbacks
6) One of the classes that dishes out the most diverse amount of conditions
7) Good Combofields and Combosinishers
8) Harder to kill than Ele in most MU’s (Necro being the obvious exception)
9) Protection-Injection that basically counters most spikes that rely on CC (100b-War, most Ele-builds)

see how easy it is to just count whatever you want and make a point out of it?

Ele is good, we know that, but compared to the really obvious imbalances like BS, Stealth, Blurred Frenzy, Portal etc. It’s not a big thing. Besides, as stated in a Post before, no1 really try’s to counter the D/D-Ele (and other Builds at the same time) with movement-impairing-skills. It was totally standard in GW1 to have cripple-rangers, AoE-Fields that lowered Movement, freezes etc. to take out pressure-DPS from Melee-Classes, why does nobody do that in GW2? I mean, is it that hard to put Cantrips on the Thief, which basically is enough to negate most D/D-Ele Pressure in Teamfights?

PowerBottom.5796:

Aragiel.6132:

Ranger: condi remove + aoe regen + quickstomp = 3 points
Guardian: Tanky + DPS = 2 points
Thief: condi build + tanky + perma swift + mobility = 4 points
Engi: ressurect, perma swift, self condi removal = 2,5 points (only selfish condi removal)
Warrior: mobility, Elite rez, shout heals, quickstomp = 4 points

now standard D/D ele.
- decent DMG output
- hudge mobility
- CC
- Lots of buff (pernament furry, nice swiftness, protection, regeneration when needed)
- more ways how to healthemselfs (not only skil nr. 6)
- lot of abilities to cleans condition from themselfs and also allies
- Best downed mode in game

= very easily 7 points.

Well, you just counted random things on the Ele, I can do that too on other classes:

- Ranger (Power with Longbow+Sword/Warhorn):
1) AoE Fury
2) AoE Swiftness
3) AoE Reg (almost permanent)
4) AoE-Vigor
5) Quickness-rez
6) Quickness-stomps
7) huge AoE Crowd-Control with Muddy Terrain and Longbow 5
8) Ability to recap points much easier with insane Knockback on Longbow 4 and the Fear of the Wolf+Immobilize/cripple of Muddy Terrain
9) Almost immune to conditions

Engi (standard Teldo-build)
1) Selfrez and Ally-Rez in one Skill
2) Heavy AoE
3) Perma-Swiftness
4) Perma-Vigor
5) Good CC/Knockbacks
6) One of the classes that dishes out the most diverse amount of conditions
7) Good Combofields and Combosinishers
8) Harder to kill than Ele in most MU’s (Necro being the obvious exception)
9) Protection-Injection that basically counters most spikes that rely on CC (100b-War, most Ele-builds)

see how easy it is to just count whatever you want and make a point out of it?

Ele is good, we know that, but compared to the really obvious imbalances like BS, Stealth, Blurred Frenzy, Portal etc. It’s not a big thing. Besides, as stated in a Post before, no1 really try’s to counter the D/D-Ele (and other Builds at the same time) with movement-impairing-skills. It was totally standard in GW1 to have cripple-rangers, AoE-Fields that lowered Movement, freezes etc. to take out pressure-DPS from Melee-Classes, why does nobody do that in GW2? I mean, is it that hard to put Cantrips on the Thief, which basically is enough to negate most D/D-Ele Pressure in Teamfights?

thats exactly what i thought. 1+ Powerbottom

ok guys Ele is totaly underpowered and a trully class that can´t be viable in sPvP or in any form (WvW). Because its just not that good and everyone can do better.

Im sorry for being sacracstic.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Mufa.1326:

Yes, what i mean is that ppl follow up earth with fire. They start with air, earth fire water. And yes burning speed does follow earthquake. And yes, they first gain a bit of distance so that their blast hits me if I do not break stun on earthquake.
And yes they are ‘fotm’ eles X/30/30. It does not matter if other builds die fast, if that one is OP.
As for me not having trouble beating any class: it does not mean my class is op. I have the least trouble beating my own class.

Dude your QQ level is out of control, it’s always about eles. You play a thief, and you want to talk about not having enough dodges? How about spammable 7k heart seekers? Have fun dodging all those, not too mention with 5-10 thieves in a game (lol) players don’t have enough stun breaks or dodges in the world to dodge all that. I know I play a thief in tourneys occasionally as well, and I know how heart seeker hits.

You QQ because you can’t global a build that is built to survive. These ungodly eles that are killing you in an earthquake burning speed combo, (lol I’m covered up to my ears in all this bs, earthquake is melee range, nobody is doing earthquake burning speed, you even say “they back up to gain space for burning speed” do you know how dumb that sounds?? If eles are doing earthquake—>back pedaling —-> burning speed and that is owning you then you have way bigger problems) these godly eles are not running 0 10 0 30 30, because that spec is built around outlasting and hits like a wet noodle. So the eles that are wrecking you with burning speed are specced GC, and therefore are even MORE squishier than your thief.

You don’t know what you are talking about when you QQ about the ele class, and it’s obvious. You found a spec that is made to counter burst and is strong against thieves (time to adapt and you might actually have to do what all the thieves tell everyone else, gasp change your build!)

Get a clue and read before you post you nonsense.
1. Noone is killing me with earthquake & burning speed. These were mentioned as being sufficient to eat up all of the normal dodges.
2. They are NOT specced as glass cannons. This does not mean you do not need to dodge burning speed (and earthquake). You do not need to be 100%-0% with something to need to dodge it.
3. I do not global anyone since I do not run burst build, and they are NOT glass cannons.
4. I do not spam HS either, and they do not hit for 7K, stop talking nonsense.
5. I do not know what I am talking about? These nonsense talkers…..find me in the game and bring your OP ‘7K HS thief’, l waste you 1v1. I know very well what I am talking about.
6. You did not even read my post, and if you did you obviously failed completely to understand it (problem is not dodging anything in particular but sheer volume of things that need to be dodged). So why are you posting bunch of nonsense?

You know at first a new player would think that Ele is much harder to play due to the fact that he has twice as many weapon skills as other classes and constantly has to switch attunements.
It’s sadly not the case. It takes a few hours to get used to playing Ele, and when you do, you realize it’s actually the easiest class to play, it just takes more button mashing than other classes. Especially the bunker ones. It literally does NOT matter what your opponent does, just roll through your skills in all attunemets and make sure to save a dodge for when you switch to water so you can heal up with Evasive Arcana.

Yes, Ether Renewal is ONE of the reasons Ele is so strong right now, but it’s far from being the main problem.

As I said, they really need to put in ranked 1v1 que so this nonsense stops, people are just unrealistic about where their class is and conversation is impossible, even when faced with numbers they just ignore the numbers and continue standard qq.

Ranked 1v1 que and let us see how the top ranking presence is for different classes.

Breakin.2409:

You know at first a new player would think that Ele is much harder to play due to the fact that he has twice as many weapon skills as other classes and constantly has to switch attunements.
It’s sadly not the case. It takes a few hours to get used to playing Ele, and when you do, you realize it’s actually the easiest class to play, it just takes more button mashing than other classes. Especially the bunker ones. It literally does NOT matter what your opponent does, just roll through your skills in all attunemets and make sure to save a dodge for when you switch to water so you can heal up with Evasive Arcana.

Yes, Ether Renewal is ONE of the reasons Ele is so strong right now, but it’s far from being the main problem.

Bingo….. rotate your skills and watch the grass grow. You do not need to react to your oponent since you outheal his dmg.
All the reaction you need is stun break.
This is sadly what Anet considers ‘skill’.
The fact is, ppl who are terrible on thief for example can do very well on elementalist. Because they do not need to play against anyone on ele, they can just rotate their skills and once they get that down it is up to their enemy to actually dodge elementalist stuff and put out enough dps to kill them.

LOL at…

- people being to dumb to interrupt ether renewal (there are countless ways to)
- people thinking ele is easy to play

This thread is bad and you should feel bad.

Mufa.1326:

Breakin.2409:

You know at first a new player would think that Ele is much harder to play due to the fact that he has twice as many weapon skills as other classes and constantly has to switch attunements.
It’s sadly not the case. It takes a few hours to get used to playing Ele, and when you do, you realize it’s actually the easiest class to play, it just takes more button mashing than other classes. Especially the bunker ones. It literally does NOT matter what your opponent does, just roll through your skills in all attunemets and make sure to save a dodge for when you switch to water so you can heal up with Evasive Arcana.

Yes, Ether Renewal is ONE of the reasons Ele is so strong right now, but it’s far from being the main problem.

Bingo….. rotate your skills and watch the grass grow. You do not need to react to your oponent since you outheal his dmg.
All the reaction you need is stun break.
This is sadly what Anet considers ‘skill’.
The fact is, ppl who are terrible on thief for example can do very well on elementalist. Because they do not need to play against anyone on ele, they can just rotate their skills and once they get that down it is up to their enemy to actually dodge elementalist stuff and put out enough dps to kill them.

Ele is by far the hardest class to play.

I wonder why the moderators force us to put up with this BS, it’s always the same 5 cats playing the same profession THIEF opening a thread where they complain about eles because their mele build get countered, this must be like the 20th thread where a thief complain about d/d eles.

I suggest every single ele player to simply ignore these threads from now on, no amount of discussion will ever change their mind, we are where we are now because we adapted our builds/gameplay…we all remember..when we were considered a free kill.

Regardless of what you play….people will whine and tell you that you’re a noob playing an OP profession, they’re PRO and if you beat them it’s because you play an OP profession…personally I got enough of the same kittening bullkitten in every MMO, I won’t try anymore to reason with these people…peace out

PowerBottom.5796:

Mufa.1326:

Breakin.2409:

You know at first a new player would think that Ele is much harder to play due to the fact that he has twice as many weapon skills as other classes and constantly has to switch attunements.
It’s sadly not the case. It takes a few hours to get used to playing Ele, and when you do, you realize it’s actually the easiest class to play, it just takes more button mashing than other classes. Especially the bunker ones. It literally does NOT matter what your opponent does, just roll through your skills in all attunemets and make sure to save a dodge for when you switch to water so you can heal up with Evasive Arcana.

Yes, Ether Renewal is ONE of the reasons Ele is so strong right now, but it’s far from being the main problem.

Bingo….. rotate your skills and watch the grass grow. You do not need to react to your oponent since you outheal his dmg.
All the reaction you need is stun break.
This is sadly what Anet considers ‘skill’.
The fact is, ppl who are terrible on thief for example can do very well on elementalist. Because they do not need to play against anyone on ele, they can just rotate their skills and once they get that down it is up to their enemy to actually dodge elementalist stuff and put out enough dps to kill them.

Ele is by far the hardest class to play.

Ele is by far one of easy class to play till average level. BUT pretty much harder to master and with skill cap like no other proffesion.

Thats also what should be taken in consideration speaking about eles.. most of them are just average spammers who just benefit from the class – BUT then there is few that are masters and they are trully pain in.. you know where..

Mufa.1326:

Leuca.5732: Bad anything is easy.
Now, since you strike me as a guy who has issues understanding simple things, let me give you a super simple example in the hope it hits the spot: Just take ‘burning speed’ + ‘earthquake’. Usually earth is followed by fire, if you get hit by earthquake, you will eat burning speed unless you use the stunbreaker. So you have to dodge earthquake, as well as burning speeds. In order to dodge earthquake and burning speeds, you need to (stay with me) dodge about once every 11.25 sec. Soo..just two of your skills eat up pretty much all of my dodges. What about dodging other stuff…like your aoe chill, or your churning earth, or…i dunno dragon breath + fire grab etc….you are simpy out of dodges. Do you get the picture? Good, now imagine what effect 2 elementalists on a point have since most of their stuff is aoe. Now suddenly everyone needs dodge every 1.5sec or so, and even if they had them, they would be doing nothing but dodging what 2 eles are throwing around while watching the grass grow.

Did it ever occur to you that if you had enough dodges to avoid every cc and burst an other class could throw at you then you would have a broken game..
I mean were you serious when writing this paragraph?You are not supposed to have an asnwer to everything by dodging.Besides that burning speed doesnt home like stupid hs and is manually aimed,earthquake has a pretty obvious animation,firegrab needs melee range and misses even if you are just facing slightly wrong..etc
Eles burst is one of the healthiest in the entire game in the sence that its telegraphed ,easy to avoid /react to and has way longer cooldown than other classes both in d/d and s/d specs..
Omg..by your logic you dont have enough dodges for any class.Try making that analysis of yours against an engie who is considered weak..

As a S/D thief, I approve of Ele’s using Ether Renewal. Makes interrupting their heal with tac strike a breeze.

Every other class has some form of interrupt as well, I really don’t see how it’s a big deal.

Once people learn how to interrupt ether renewal, it will become an useless skill and the eles will switch back to the gylph.

The cast is really obvious (you see an ele channeling for 4s just runing while his HP increases) and if you interrupt it the healing goes to full CD. If that happens, you are pretty much dead.

I have been playing tons of paid tournaments with ether renewal, and i can assure 95% of the people wont try to interrupt ether renewal. However, when someone does it willfully, you will probably lose.

The implementation of an enemy cast bar would help the QQ noobies th0

ether renewal is a balanced skill. powerful when it all goes off, but sometimes it doesnt heal fast enough or gets interrupted and u die.

that said, im not sure what all the QQ is about. as a ranger i eat D/D eles alive. a few movement impairing skills or stuns/dazes and they go down pretty quick, usually before they can even get to me

Hahahaha.

This thread made me laugh and face palm at the same time.

Just please stop trying to cry about elementalists while promoting yourselves as skilled players who definitely did EVERYTHING to counter elementalists. How about, if you guys are so skilled at thieves, warriors, or what have you, then why don’t you go make an elementalist and attempt the same thing, plus EVERYTHING you guys mentioned: OP burst, OP tankiness, OP CC, OP mobility, because that’s TOTALLY an accurate description of the profession, despite not being an elementalist. Go. I’ll be waiting.

By the way. Ether Renewal is a channel. Learn to interrupt it, please.

Azunai.5974:

Hahahaha.

This thread made me laugh and face palm at the same time.

Just please stop trying to cry about elementalists while promoting yourselves as skilled players who definitely did EVERYTHING to counter elementalists. How about, if you guys are so skilled at thieves, warriors, or what have you, then why don’t you go make an elementalist and attempt the same thing, plus EVERYTHING you guys mentioned: OP burst, OP tankiness, OP CC, OP mobility, because that’s TOTALLY an accurate description of the profession, despite not being an elementalist. Go. I’ll be waiting.

By the way. Ether Renewal is a channel. Learn to interrupt it, please.

I did, quite a while ago.

Also, what kind of kitten uses Ether Renewal when he doesn’t have stability, Mist Form or knows that his opponent CC is on cd?
To be honest, I don’t even have to use it most of the time. All the regeneration and healing from water, combined with proper dodges are enough to survive in a 2v1, let alone 1v1, that’s why I’m in a dilemma about whether I should just use the glyph.

Breakin.2409:

Azunai.5974:

Hahahaha.

This thread made me laugh and face palm at the same time.

Just please stop trying to cry about elementalists while promoting yourselves as skilled players who definitely did EVERYTHING to counter elementalists. How about, if you guys are so skilled at thieves, warriors, or what have you, then why don’t you go make an elementalist and attempt the same thing, plus EVERYTHING you guys mentioned: OP burst, OP tankiness, OP CC, OP mobility, because that’s TOTALLY an accurate description of the profession, despite not being an elementalist. Go. I’ll be waiting.

By the way. Ether Renewal is a channel. Learn to interrupt it, please.

I did, quite a while ago.

Also, what kind of kitten uses Ether Renewal when he doesn’t have stability, Mist Form or knows that his opponent CC is on cd?
To be honest, I don’t even have to use it most of the time. All the regeneration and healing from water, combined with proper dodges are enough to survive in a 2v1, let alone 1v1, that’s why I’m in a dilemma about whether I should just use the glyph.

on my ele, i find it more useful when doing dps and/or aura share builds, where the passive condition removal isnt great. but most d/d eles have at least 2 (on water attunement, / water 5), so the condition removal aspect usually isnt necessary, and when traited for CD i like glyph better for its burst heal and protection.

the CD on ether renewal does rule though

lol, people should try out the healing per cast signet. its like 324 heal each cast. you dodge roll and you get like +1k heals and everytime u change attunement and roll. u get again 1k. + the usual skills ur using, go f3, do 2 and 3 and u get 650 heal instantly? O.O. i would say try it. thats way more op than ether renewal.