Guild Wars 2

I just want to write my thoughts about this, because really it seems there’s a whole lot of nothing happening with these classes. However, I have a feeling Mesmer is going to get more popular, not because of the “buffs” they received (which seem almost entirely negligible, save the illusionary leap) but because other changes, specifically to thief.

Really I see nothing changing with Elementalist unless they change runes and sigils again. They can buff signets all they want, but Cantrips will always be superior in every way. Cleansing Fire is just objectively better than Signet of Water, Blink has more utility and is a better getaway than Air, and the other two are just not good. If you want Elementalist gameplay to actually change, ANet needs to completely revamp the water traitline and do something serious about Evasive Arcana. Until then we’re not going to see anything besides the 0/0/2/6/6 build.

I don’t play Mesmer much, but I don’t see scepter becoming popular at all. Complain about PU all you want (yes, it’s annoying) but it’s not good in tournies. The mantras might be a little scary, but I think the main “buff” to Mesmers are the Warrior and Thief nerfs.

The changes mentioned today seem lacking, not to say that’s a bad thing. Yes, I would like to see some difference to the meta Elementalist build, but unless they address runes and sigils we won’t be seeing much of that. But Mesmers will have a lot of potential once Thieves don’t control the meta.

I think you underestimate the buff to scepter. It’s going to apply torment on AAs. The AAs will generate clones that will stack even more torment. Right now, I need to disengage if I get 5 stacks and one or two other conditions put on me. Can you imagine what your condi bar will look like post patch if that mesmer change goes through?

As you said, the thief/war nerfs are buffs to these classes. As a result, there’s not much of a need to change a lot of stuff on them.

Neschast.7196:

I think you underestimate the buff to scepter. It’s going to apply torment on AAs. The AAs will generate clones that will stack even more torment. Right now, I need to disengage if I get 5 stacks and one or two other conditions put on me. Can you imagine what your condi bar will look like post patch if that mesmer change goes through?

In 1v1 it will probably be pretty strong, but it’s not enough pressure in larger fights to make a big difference.

Neschast.7196:

I think you underestimate the buff to scepter. It’s going to apply torment on AAs. The AAs will generate clones that will stack even more torment. Right now, I need to disengage if I get 5 stacks and one or two other conditions put on me. Can you imagine what your condi bar will look like post patch if that mesmer change goes through?

It’s not just the scepter buff, it’s this buff plus illusionary elasticity to staff, makes condi builds crazy strong, and not in a good way as it will all be about being passive and letting the clones do the work.

sendmark.4731:

Neschast.7196:

I think you underestimate the buff to scepter. It’s going to apply torment on AAs. The AAs will generate clones that will stack even more torment. Right now, I need to disengage if I get 5 stacks and one or two other conditions put on me. Can you imagine what your condi bar will look like post patch if that mesmer change goes through?

It’s not just the scepter buff, it’s this buff plus illusionary elasticity to staff, makes condi builds crazy strong, and not in a good way as it will all be about being passive and letting the clones do the work.

But aren’t condition mesmers non-existent in high level PvP? Will this change actually make them viable?(Assume it’s a bad thing).

Or will this change just make condition mesmers super strong and frustrating to deal with in low level PvP just like, say, turret engis.

Torment is the worst damaging condition to put on AA. It is the single hardest damaging condition to clear. It’s part of the reason why people complain over impale. The other being it re-applies itself. They are basically giving mesmers an impale skill.

sendmark.4731:

Neschast.7196:

I think you underestimate the buff to scepter. It’s going to apply torment on AAs. The AAs will generate clones that will stack even more torment. Right now, I need to disengage if I get 5 stacks and one or two other conditions put on me. Can you imagine what your condi bar will look like post patch if that mesmer change goes through?

It’s not just the scepter buff, it’s this buff plus illusionary elasticity to staff, makes condi builds crazy strong, and not in a good way as it will all be about being passive and letting the clones do the work.

IE was always meant to work on staff clones. It is not a buff, the trait simply now does what it said it always did. It just 2 years for it to be corrected. Much the same has the previous change to ileap. If the clone is dead, you can’t swap with it now..which was how it was always intended.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Torment is the worst damaging condition to put on AA. It is the single hardest damaging condition to clear. It’s part of the reason why people complain over impale. The other being it re-applies itself. They are basically giving mesmers an impale skill.

Guardian auto attack on all weapons. Every 5th or traited 3rd attack causes burning. With traiting and sigils it was possib;e to apply 30 seconds of burning (The highest damaging condition in game) simply using auto attack. It has also been confirmed by dev’s guardian scepter had the highest auto attack damage. Lookie at that..highest damage and able to apl,y 30 seconds of burn continously in it’s complete rotation.
mesmer you have to destroy the clone, thats all..guard you had to destroy them. You have the torment out of proportion.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Guardian auto attack on all weapons. Every 5th or traited 3rd attack causes burning. With traiting and sigils it was possib;e to apply 30 seconds of burning (The highest damaging condition in game) simply using auto attack. It has also been confirmed by dev’s guardian scepter had the highest auto attack damage. Lookie at that..highest damage and able to apl,y 30 seconds of burn continously in it’s complete rotation.
mesmer you have to destroy the clone, thats all..guard you had to destroy them. You have the torment out of proportion.

What? They’re not even comparable. Every 5th attack procs a 1 second burn, or every 3 attacks with a 20 point investment into virtue tree. Popping the virtue allows for a longer burn but then disables the auto attack burning. Even if Guardians could apply 30 seconds of burning, they have nothing to cover it with and a single condition clear would remove it.

Mesmer auto attack torment is an insane idea, especially if the clones are going to be applying it. Wasting time killing clones while the mesmer is free to attack you is a stupid idea, not even mentioning that clones can apply conditions on death. PU is already incredibly strong with it’s survivability and condition pressure over time, allowing them to auto stack torment on top of that is just plain stupid.

Anet plz, nothing in this game should be applying torment through an auto attack, especially clones that are made every time you dodge roll.

mesmers are in a very bad place anyway, they needed a buff. granted, those changes greatly benefit the PU build, but this build is definitely not viable in tpvp nor will it ever be, until you can cap in stealth and that will NEVER come back.

The Ele changes are more interesting if you consider PvE and maybe WvW, as the meteornado and the fiery rush were never seriously used in at least european pvp meta. i don’t know what’s been going in NA or CN, but i can’t imagine anyone seriously using fiery rush as main dps source, except against treb and animals/guildlords (ok, i see the point for the nerf while i’m writing this ).

That being said, I’m definitely not unhappy about the changes and only time will tell if there’s a balance change or everything stays the same.

The question the devs need to ask us,and the question the PvP community needs to ask itself, is do we want a viable scepter-condi mesmer build in spvp?

the way i see it, there’s simply no way to make the scepter condi build viable in tpvp. it may be even more now in w³ for roaming, but it can’t cap points and deals little to none dps, compared to heavy hitters like shatter staff+gs etc.

I don’t know OP, Blinding Ashes+Retal from Elemental Contigency might makes something interesting. Fire became a bit more defensive

Neschast.7196:

I think you underestimate the buff to scepter. It’s going to apply torment on AAs. The AAs will generate clones that will stack even more torment. Right now, I need to disengage if I get 5 stacks and one or two other conditions put on me. Can you imagine what your condi bar will look like post patch if that mesmer change goes through?

drop timewarp, use scepter – if enemy is still alive within 15 sec, shatter.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Scepter auto attack seems like a Warrior Impale that never ends! On the other hand, Scepter auto attack is so goshdarn slow! Gosh Vee Wee wishes there was a test server!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

What warrior/thief nerfs? You mean BP intervals increasing, as if that’s what killed mesmers? No, thief kittened spike damage and mobility killed mesmers. So did warriors, who in fact got a huge buff to greatsword builds with the new arcing slice doing the ridiculous damage it does now.

Healing signet is the same ridiculous heal it has been, cleansing ire is still in, stance stacking is still in. Thieves wiping out over half a power spec’s HP in one backstab combo is still a thing.

Don’t hold your breath, power mesmers will still get trashed by thieves and warriors, and ele probably still as well.

The only mesmer spec, PU, which can handle warriors and thieves, is just a duel spec that can’t even roam because it has no moevement and kills so slowly with no aoe to boot. PU mesmer is a poor man’s necro.

Ele will still be pigeonholed into water/arcana hybrid/bunker or a scepter/dagger spec that is harder to execute than simply playing a thief or warrior. Warrior and thief will still be the premier power based specs that can play glass cannon/knight.

mesmer scepter will quite litterally hardcounter rangers and elementalists as both these professions rely heavily on continuous movement and positioning. Giving a AA the ability to shut down two professions is beyond brokenly OP.

Prysin.8542:

mesmer scepter will quite litterally hardcounter rangers and elementalists as both these professions rely heavily on continuous movement and positioning. Giving a AA the ability to shut down two professions is beyond brokenly OP.

Yeah because there are so many condition scepter mesmers that will ruin a ranger who sits on healing spring and has empathetic bond, what world are you living in?

I’m glad you think a condition mesmer using a single target weapon in a format that values aoe damage on a point will make such a splash. Now please get back to reality.

All you need to do is dodge the third, slow autoattack and it doesn’t even get clones up unless you pop decoy.

SStelter.4712:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Guardian auto attack on all weapons. Every 5th or traited 3rd attack causes burning. With traiting and sigils it was possib;e to apply 30 seconds of burning (The highest damaging condition in game) simply using auto attack. It has also been confirmed by dev’s guardian scepter had the highest auto attack damage. Lookie at that..highest damage and able to apl,y 30 seconds of burn continously in it’s complete rotation.
mesmer you have to destroy the clone, thats all..guard you had to destroy them. You have the torment out of proportion.

What? They’re not even comparable. Every 5th attack procs a 1 second burn, or every 3 attacks with a 20 point investment into virtue tree. Popping the virtue allows for a longer burn but then disables the auto attack burning. Even if Guardians could apply 30 seconds of burning, they have nothing to cover it with and a single condition clear would remove it.

Mesmer auto attack torment is an insane idea, especially if the clones are going to be applying it. Wasting time killing clones while the mesmer is free to attack you is a stupid idea, not even mentioning that clones can apply conditions on death. PU is already incredibly strong with it’s survivability and condition pressure over time, allowing them to auto stack torment on top of that is just plain stupid.

Anet plz, nothing in this game should be applying torment through an auto attack, especially clones that are made every time you dodge roll.

“wasting time killing clones.”- You mean the clones that die in one hit and upon spawn move towards their target?

“Condition pressure over time” You mean warrior sword that applies bleed and cripple and even on a condition build can still strike for 3-4K when final thrust prereq’s are met?

“Not comparable” I one second burn every 3rd/5th attack that can be stacked up to 30 seconds with virtues and traits. The torment is 2 seconds on strike, 4 seconds on third strike when the clone spawns. With double evade and DE that means you can spawn 3 clones in 3 seconds, each doing 2 seconds of torment. The third strike won’t spawn a clone, because you already have 3 present if none have been destroyed. That will equate out in real terms of 8 seconds of torment. Even at a high condition score 8 × 78= 624 dmg over time if they are not moving or approximately 1,056 over time if they are moving constantly. It sounds better on paper and in theory crafting than what it will actually be in real time. As many people have stated, it will benefit PU. Currently PU is the hotjoin hero build of mesmer and is not used in any higher competitive form. It is too slow moving for roaming and not capable of taking supply stations in WvW in a reasonable time. I think it would be better to see how it all plays out first before condemning it. Pound for pound, shatter mesmers still produce a lot more DPS.

Agreed, OP. Without survivability buffs to Glyphs, Signets and the traits that support them, no one will use them.

Elasticity effecting staff clones is the biggest buff since warrior healing signet.
people really underestimate this change.
these clones are already undoubtedly the strongest of all clones,
and now they will hit twice.
(ignore what wiki says about clones attacks not bouncing, they do.)

Zenith.7301:

What warrior/thief nerfs? You mean BP intervals increasing, as if that’s what killed mesmers? No, thief kittened spike damage and mobility killed mesmers. So did warriors, who in fact got a huge buff to greatsword builds with the new arcing slice doing the ridiculous damage it does now.

Healing signet is the same ridiculous heal it has been, cleansing ire is still in, stance stacking is still in. Thieves wiping out over half a power spec’s HP in one backstab combo is still a thing.

Don’t hold your breath, power mesmers will still get trashed by thieves and warriors, and ele probably still as well.

The only mesmer spec, PU, which can handle warriors and thieves, is just a duel spec that can’t even roam because it has no moevement and kills so slowly with no aoe to boot. PU mesmer is a poor man’s necro.

Ele will still be pigeonholed into water/arcana hybrid/bunker or a scepter/dagger spec that is harder to execute than simply playing a thief or warrior. Warrior and thief will still be the premier power based specs that can play glass cannon/knight.

I think you’re going to be very surprised how much different warriors are going to be once you can dodge bursts and they lose adrenaline. Think of it: dodge Earthshaker or Evis and they won’t be able to immediately weapon swap and clear all their conditions. That’s a pretty big deal.

And yes, D/P Thief will inevitably make a comeback but it still has bad matchups against tanky stuff which is still going to be more than popular. Mesmer is going to be scary. Not because of the whatever buffs they’re getting, but their main counters are getting hit pretty hard.