Guild Wars 2

Lets see, an ele dagger 5 healing heals for about 2-2.5k if traited/specced into healing power, under a 40s cooldown.
An engineer can drop 5 healing bags which heals for the same ammount each of them.
A banner warrior can heal 4-5k with banner skill number 2 if specced into healing with only a 10 seconds cd, without counting regen.

Now you might be wondering, ya eles give a healing aura, plus another 2-2.5k heal on water attunement switch, guess what a warrior shout can also heal for that much.

Not to mention warriors and engineers have way more armor, and hp. You still think eles healing is op? It just looks op because a healing specced ele has NO HEALTH, thus the smallest healing looks op cause they refill most of their almost nothing hp.

So a warrior can be a way better “healer” than an ele, where eles are equally if not worse than engineers.

The only difference is that warriors all go to kitten 100blades spec or other viable specs they do have, while eles do only have one viable spec.

we’re also very squishy. So if u can get us to mist form then burst us right after our water cycle ur doing it right.

The only thing OP about Ele’s healing is the fact that Evasive Arcana’s version of Cleansing Wave heals for the same amount as the normal skill version. The normal skill version is balanced around a 40s CD, whereas Evasive Arcana’s CD is only 10s. This runs counter to nearly every “dodge does X skill” trait in the game where the dodge version is usually a less potent version of the normal skill.

hharry.1967:

Lets see, an ele dagger 5 healing heals for about 2-2.5k if traited/specced into healing power, under a 40s cooldown.
An engineer can drop 5 healing bags which heals for the same ammount each of them.
A banner warrior can heal 4-5k with banner skill number 2 if specced into healing with only a 10 seconds cd, without counting regen.

Now you might be wondering, ya eles give a healing aura, plus another 2-2.5k heal on water attunement switch, guess what a warrior shout can also heal for that much.

Not to mention warriors and engineers have way more armor, and hp. You still think eles healing is op? It just looks op because a healing specced ele has NO HEALTH, thus the smallest healing looks op cause they refill most of their almost nothing hp.

So a warrior can be a way better “healer” than an ele, where eles are equally if not worse than engineers.

The only difference is that warriors all go to kitten 100blades spec or other viable specs they do have, while eles do only have one viable spec.

Hey guys, this is your resident forum engineer player. Since so few people have ever played an engineer, I’ve volunteered to come to the forums and explain what engineer skills actually do.

An engineer’s med kit can drop three bandages, each with a 12 second cooldown (or 15 if you trait for it…yeah, our traits are that good!) Each bandage heals for base 1000 health, with a .5 healing power scaling. So with 3000 healing power, each bandage would heal for 2.5k (yes, I know that’s impossible…) Each bandage is single target and takes a little over a half second to drop.

Banner heal is a typo. Heals for about 400 health.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Hey guys, this is your resident forum engineer player. Since so few people have ever played an engineer, I’ve volunteered to come to the forums and explain what engineer skills actually do.

An engineer’s med kit can drop three bandages, each with a 12 second cooldown (or 15 if you trait for it…yeah, our traits are that good!) Each bandage heals for base 1000 health, with a .5 healing power scaling. So with 3000 healing power, each bandage would heal for 2.5k (yes, I know that’s impossible…) Each bandage is single target and takes a little over a half second to drop.

In other words, as an ele player, yes, our healing is too strong. Water Trident (if using Scepter) + Cleansing Wave + Water Attunement + Evasive Arcana’s Cleansing Wave + perma regen. That’s about 8-10k healing, without taking into account the regen boon nor the water attunement passive heal trait, and is all done in very few seconds (switch to water attunement → cast your heals and dodge). EA’s cooldown is 10s, Water Attunement’s cooldown is about 10s too, Water Trident (if using) is close to 20s, dagger’s 5th is the only one with a high cooldown. And if that counts, bunker eles also stack vigor, for more healing dodges, might stack protection, and usually have high natural toughness.

That’s why you see their HP “resetting” so many times.

They QQ because of RtL.

I guess that if any of those classes had RtL, they’d be gamebreakingly op.

Razor.6392:

They QQ because of RtL.

I guess that if any of those classes had RtL, they’d be gamebreakingly op.

They QQ because they can’t kill or catch an ele who ran away.. Ran away from the fight.. Ran away.. Wait, what??

Razor.6392:

They QQ because of RtL.

I guess that if any of those classes had RtL, they’d be gamebreakingly op.

They don’t complain about staff or scepter do they?

Maybe because they can walk out of any aoe attack without even using a dodge?, but if you say this, they will tell you that you need to l2p and ele is good but if you play dagger/dagger where you can ctually hit people….then ele is OP

The way I see it, people are simply angry that eles are not more the free kill as it was before, do you remember the situation in September?
-“When I see an ele I see a free kill”
-“Lol eles are so easy to kill, soooo squishy”

Now what? Did an ele steal their puppy? Too bad!

When you bump into an enemy Ele and begin fighting, you’re not fighting against a 14k HP target. That Ele is more like a 40k+ HP target if you count their effective healing over time, and the way their skills work to facilitate such large healing.

So, the argument of “Oh Eles are squishy, delicate little creatures…we must not nerf them” is invalid. Because of the way Eles are designed, they are actually one of the tankiest, beefiest classes out there in PvP.

DiogoSilva.7089:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Hey guys, this is your resident forum engineer player. Since so few people have ever played an engineer, I’ve volunteered to come to the forums and explain what engineer skills actually do.

An engineer’s med kit can drop three bandages, each with a 12 second cooldown (or 15 if you trait for it…yeah, our traits are that good!) Each bandage heals for base 1000 health, with a .5 healing power scaling. So with 3000 healing power, each bandage would heal for 2.5k (yes, I know that’s impossible…) Each bandage is single target and takes a little over a half second to drop.

In other words, as an ele player, yes, our healing is too strong. Water Trident (if using Scepter) + Cleansing Wave + Water Attunement + Evasive Arcana’s Cleansing Wave + perma regen. That’s about 8-10k healing, without taking into account the regen boon nor the water attunement passive heal trait, and is all done in very few seconds (switch to water attunement -> cast your heals and dodge). EA’s cooldown is 10s, Water Attunement’s cooldown is about 10s too, Water Trident (if using) is close to 20s, dagger’s 5th is the only one with a high cooldown. And if that counts, bunker eles also stack vigor, for more healing dodges, might stack protection, and usually have high natural toughness.

That’s why you see their HP “resetting” so many times.

You counted watter attunement twice, anyways lets see this:

Watter attunement (2k heal), scepter 3 (2k healing, cast time, ground targetted means its a bit harder to pull off), cleansing wave 2k, dodge cleansing wave 2k. Thats 8k every 40 seconds or 6k every 20 seconds (cd of scepter #3) or 4k every 10 seconds (only water attunement and dodge). Those are the possible healing combinations combine them as you please, not to mention you have to go 30 in arcana and get some healing gear(not 100% healing gear you dont want to run around with 13k hp).

Now, engineers, if having some healing power, each bandage heals for around 2k as well (maybe a little less like 1.8k), x 3, with 12s cd, you have 6k heal every 12 seconds vs our 6k heal every 20 seconds.

Now warriors, banner 4k, lets say you also have 2 shouts healing for 2k each thats 8k heal every 25 seconds (shouts cd) or 4k heal every 10 seconds only from banner (just as eles!).

So on the highest cd, we have eles with 8k every 40 seconds, engineers with 6k every 20, and warriors with 8k every 25. These are roughly approximates since there are a few regen buffs, and also engis have some more healing i cant think of right now. So yea heal aint that overpowered is it?

zone.1073:

When you bump into an enemy Ele and begin fighting, you’re not fighting against a 14k HP target. That Ele is more like a 40k+ HP target if you count their effective healing over time, and the way their skills work to facilitate such large healing.

So, the argument of “Oh Eles are squishy, delicate little creatures…we must not nerf them” is invalid. Because of the way Eles are designed, they are actually one of the tankiest, beefiest classes out there in PvP.

Good lord, just because a specific build of an ele is bunker doesn’t entitle you to generalize eles to be designed as the tankiest, beefiest class out there in PvP. Get your arguments straight.

zone.1073:

When you bump into an enemy Ele and begin fighting, you’re not fighting against a 14k HP target. That Ele is more like a 40k+ HP target if you count their effective healing over time, and the way their skills work to facilitate such large healing.

So, the argument of “Oh Eles are squishy, delicate little creatures…we must not nerf them” is invalid. Because of the way Eles are designed, they are actually one of the tankiest, beefiest classes out there in PvP.

Not every ele wear a cleric amulet! Therefore I can easily give a – 100 to the rest of your post and given the fact that a cleric amulet ele deal close to no dmg I can easily give another -100 to your post.

If you complain about ele doing decent dmg then they’re not wearing a cleric amulet, they don’t have 14k HP and their healing doesn’t add up even to 5k if we count every single water heal ( EA dodge+ cleansing wave + healing ripple) thus I can give a final -1000 to your post and directly bury you

P.S – pls remove the twitch link, you’re a bad example for new players as you simply share your noob trap builds

Their mobility is unparalleled because Ride the Lightning is unaffected by slows. An Ele can be crippled, or chilled, or both, and zip away with RtL at full speed and at maximum distance. Even if you think you’re smart and try to immobilize them, it’s not like Eles are condi-cleansing-deprived like Warriors are – Nope, they have the means to cleanse immobilizes quite easily. No matter what you do to the Ele, if the Ele wants to GTFO, he will indeed GTFO with great success.

Some of the strongest defensive cooldowns in the game (Ele’s shocking and chill auras) are instant cast. Where is the opportunity cost in that? You would think that such powerful abilities would provide some room for counter-gameplay; Nope.

Ele’s damage is extraordinarily efficient and powerful because some of their hardest-hitting abilities also come with a 100% critical hit chance built into them. So, Eles don’t need to build crit chance and be glassy like everyone else to do damage. Eles can skip the Berserker’s Amulet, have defensive traits and armors, and still rock out the big damages due to their ability mechanics.

zone.1073:

Ele’s damage is extraordinarily efficient and powerful because some of their hardest-hitting abilities also come with a 100% critical hit chance built into them.

What hardest-hitting abilities come with 100% crit hit chance? o.o

zone.1073:

Some of the strongest defensive cooldowns in the game (Ele’s shocking and chill auras) are instant cast. Where is the opportunity cost in that? You would think that such powerful abilities would provide some room for counter-gameplay; Nope.

Uh, attack ele at RANGE my dear?? Aura procs on MELEE. Just so you know.

zone.1073:

No matter what you do to the Ele, if the Ele wants to GTFO, he will indeed GTFO with great success.

I admire your hasty generalization. *clap clap

Gallrvaghn.4921:

Uh, attack ele at RANGE my dear?? Aura procs on MELEE. Just so you know.

I hope you’re just ignorant and not trying to troll. Ranged attacks also activate the procs from an Ele’s chill and shocking auras if the Ele is hit within melee range (with “Ranged” attacks. Wrap your mind around that). When you’re fighting an Ele, where is the Ele at, usually? That’s right: In your face.

It is within the Ele’s best interests to get up into someone’s face and maintain melee distance with their foe in order to maximize damage and effectiveness. So, you’re in the middle of a fight with an Ele and surprise surprise, out comes the Shocking and Chill Auras, and there is nothing that can be done about it before it’s too late. You poke the Ele a few times accidentally after the instant cast auras come out, and great, now you have a 40+ second chill condi on yourself. Lacking condi removal at the time? Too bad.

zone.1073:

Gallrvaghn.4921:

Uh, attack ele at RANGE my dear?? Aura procs on MELEE. Just so you know.

I hope you’re just ignorant and not trying to troll. Ranged attacks also activate the procs from an Ele’s chill and shocking auras if the Ele is hit within melee range (with “Ranged” attacks. Wrap your mind around that). When you’re fighting an Ele, where is the Ele at, usually? That’s right: In your face.

It is within the Ele’s best interests to get up into someone’s face and maintain melee distance with their foe in order to maximize damage and effectiveness. So, you’re in the middle of a fight with an Ele and surprise surprise, out comes the Shocking and Chill Auras, and there is nothing that can be done about it before it’s too late.

Dear god, why would you use RANGED ATTACKS AT MELEE RANGE?

I have nothing to say anymore. Please continue on with your ele bashing since it seems that you have NO CHANCE of beating an ele or even just trying to keep distance from an ele is so far-fetched, I feel very sorry for you.

hharry.1967:

You counted watter attunement twice, anyways lets see this:

Watter attunement (2k heal), scepter 3 (2k healing, cast time, ground targetted means its a bit harder to pull off), cleansing wave 2k, dodge cleansing wave 2k. Thats 8k every 40 seconds or 6k every 20 seconds (cd of scepter #3) or 4k every 10 seconds (only water attunement and dodge). Those are the possible healing combinations combine them as you please, not to mention you have to go 30 in arcana and get some healing gear(not 100% healing gear you dont want to run around with 13k hp).

Now, engineers, if having some healing power, each bandage heals for around 2k as well (maybe a little less like 1.8k), x 3, with 12s cd, you have 6k heal every 12 seconds vs our 6k heal every 20 seconds.

Now warriors, banner 4k, lets say you also have 2 shouts healing for 2k each thats 8k heal every 25 seconds (shouts cd) or 4k heal every 10 seconds only from banner (just as eles!).

So on the highest cd, we have eles with 8k every 40 seconds, engineers with 6k every 20, and warriors with 8k every 25. These are roughly approximates since there are a few regen buffs, and also engis have some more healing i cant think of right now. So yea heal aint that overpowered is it?

Engi heal skill heals 6308 with healing power maxed out, the bandages heal 1694 ea taking 3 seconds to cast all not included time it takes to swap to medkit and then you need to swap out of medkit, for a total of 11390hp, main heal on 20cd(16cd if traited).
Lol, 1.8k ea heal with a little healing power?
With it maxed out, you wont even be doing decent damage on a glass cannon….

Gallrvaghn.4921:

I have nothing to say anymore. Please continue on with your ele bashing since it seems that you have NO CHANCE of beating an ele or even just trying to keep distance from an ele.

I actually play an Ele competitively in paids, but nice try. Good effort.

zone.1073:

Gallrvaghn.4921:

Uh, attack ele at RANGE my dear?? Aura procs on MELEE. Just so you know.

I hope you’re just ignorant and not trying to troll. Ranged attacks also activate the procs from an Ele’s chill and shocking auras if the Ele is hit within melee range (with “Ranged” attacks. Wrap your mind around that). When you’re fighting an Ele, where is the Ele at, usually? That’s right: In your face.

It is within the Ele’s best interests to get up into someone’s face and maintain melee distance with their foe in order to maximize damage and effectiveness. So, you’re in the middle of a fight with an Ele and surprise surprise, out comes the Shocking and Chill Auras, and there is nothing that can be done about it before it’s too late. You poke the Ele a few times accidentally after the instant cast auras come out, and great, now you have a 40+ second chill condi on yourself. Lacking condi removal at the time? Too bad.

Pls tell me how shocking aura proc on ranged attacks also!

But let’s summarize your posts, for you an ele :

-should not have healing
-should not have too much damage
-should not have any effective defensive skills ( anti mele)
-should have low HP and armor
-should not have any mobility or control

I’m impressed….seriously impressed that somebody can say something like this with a straight face

zone.1073:

Gallrvaghn.4921:

I have nothing to say anymore. Please continue on with your ele bashing since it seems that you have NO CHANCE of beating an ele or even just trying to keep distance from an ele.

I actually play an Ele competitively in paids, but nice try. Good effort.

Even better…pls list for us these skills with inbuilt 100% crit and show us how shocking aura proc on ranged attacks..but wait, pls tell us what an ele should do in this game then

What are supposed to be the advantages of playing a profession with 10k HP at mele range?Great dmg?Great control? Great support?Great mobility?

You seem to complain about any of the things mentioned above, hence I fail to see how an ele should be for you, should an ele even be able to beat anybody in this game or we should automatically lose to anything? Because it seems to me that not matter what, an ele is not supposed to win ever in a 1vs1, are we maybe supposed to simply roll on our stomach and die everytime somebody come our way?

Gallrvaghn.4921:

zone.1073:

I hope you’re just ignorant and not trying to troll. Ranged attacks also activate the procs from an Ele’s chill and shocking auras if the Ele is hit within melee range (with “Ranged” attacks. Wrap your mind around that). When you’re fighting an Ele, where is the Ele at, usually? That’s right: In your face.

It is within the Ele’s best interests to get up into someone’s face and maintain melee distance with their foe in order to maximize damage and effectiveness. So, you’re in the middle of a fight with an Ele and surprise surprise, out comes the Shocking and Chill Auras, and there is nothing that can be done about it before it’s too late.

Dear god, why would you use RANGED ATTACKS AT MELEE RANGE?

I have nothing to say anymore. Please continue on with your ele bashing since it seems that you have NO CHANCE of beating an ele or even just trying to keep distance from an ele is so far-fetched, I feel very sorry for you.

Yea zone, why would you use your ranged attacks at 1200 range, against the most mobile class in game, that can reach you in 1 second? Why don’t you freaking l2p and kite then with your cripple and chill, that they can easily remove! Get good!

hharry.1967:

Watter attunement (2k heal), scepter 3 (2k healing, cast time, ground targetted means its a bit harder to pull off), cleansing wave 2k, dodge cleansing wave 2k. Thats 8k every 40 seconds or 6k every 20 seconds (cd of scepter #3) or 4k every 10 seconds (only water attunement and dodge).

4k Healing every 10s without casting Water Trident or Cleansing Wave then.

+ 1-2k in each Attunement from just casting normal attacks (you know, like fighting) with the Signet Heal.

So around 10k healing every 10s just from fighting and rotating through each attunement when using the Signet Heal…

+ that extra 2k every 20s / 4k every 40s from Water Trident / Cleansing Wave.

No one else has this kind of healing, and don’t bring your HP into it, you have access to long durations of Protection and so much Vigor you can dodge roll constantly with a Scepter and nearly all the time with D/D too.
+ Dipping into Water every 10s will wipe off all the conditions on you.

hharry.1967:

Now, engineers, if having some healing power, each bandage heals for around 2k as well (maybe a little less like 1.8k), x 3, with 12s cd, you have 6k heal every 12 seconds vs our 6k heal every 20 seconds.

Hey, time for another post from the engi representative. As I said, bandage = 1000 healing with a .5 coefficient. Thus, 2000 healing power = exactly 2000 heal per bandage. 1600 healing power = exactly 1.8k healing per bandage.

Direct comparisons like these are dangerous because:
1. They’re always a comparison between a profession someone knows inside and out, and one that person is unfamiliar with; and
2. They’re not the only way to gauge effectiveness.

Arheundel.6451:

Because it seems to me that not matter what, an ele is not supposed to win ever in a 1vs1, are we maybe supposed to simply roll on our stomach and die everytime somebody come our way?

An Ele can still be good without the cheesy mechanics. Does such a powerful defensive cooldown like Frost Aura or Shocking Aura deserve to have an instant cast time to be effective? Does Ride the Lightning have to be impervious to slows in order to be a good gap-closer or gap-creator (considering the amount of condi removal Eles have)? Does the Ele need such powerful healing on a 10 second cooldown from Evasive Arcana?

Eles can be great and balanced. They don’t have to depend on cheesy mechanics to do well. They are almost at an optimal place right now in terms of balance – they just need a few nudges here and there to clear away the cheese.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

I have nothing to say anymore. Please continue on with your ele bashing since it seems that you have NO CHANCE of beating an ele or even just trying to keep distance from an ele is so far-fetched, I feel very sorry for you.

My personal performance in-game has nothing to do with the points I am making tonight on the forum about balance. Mark of a poor debater: when they try to tug at your heart strings in order to avoid the real subject here, which is about ele balancing.

In actuality, I personally know how to handle Eles quite well with Warrior, because I play an Ele myself. Debate 101: Don’t get personal about it, because it just makes you look silly.

My team vs Team Paradigm EU – I’m dueling with one of the best Ele players in the game:

Ezrael.6859:

hharry.1967:

Watter attunement (2k heal), scepter 3 (2k healing, cast time, ground targetted means its a bit harder to pull off), cleansing wave 2k, dodge cleansing wave 2k. Thats 8k every 40 seconds or 6k every 20 seconds (cd of scepter #3) or 4k every 10 seconds (only water attunement and dodge).

4k Healing every 10s without casting Water Trident or Cleansing Wave then.

+ 1-2k in each Attunement from just casting normal attacks (you know, like fighting) with the Signet Heal.

So around 10k healing every 10s just from fighting and rotating through each attunement when using the Signet Heal…

+ that extra 2k every 20s / 4k every 40s from Water Trident / Cleansing Wave.

No one else has this kind of healing, and don’t bring your HP into it, you have access to long durations of Protection and so much Vigor you can dodge roll constantly with a Scepter and nearly all the time with D/D too.
+ Dipping into Water every 10s will wipe off all the conditions on you.

Who uses the healing signet? When you have a 15s heal that heals a lot and strips all your conditions?

zone.1073:

My team vs Team Paradigm EU – I’m dueling with one of the best Ele players in the game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnibXlp2vQg

Not to take credits from you or call the elemen a bad player. You did outplay him, good job. However, I think if he didn’t panic at the begining, using Mist Form against Blade Trail, he’d have won.

All the top Ele’s in D/D or S/D specs right now are using Signet Heal for the sustainability it offers…

Asomal.6453:

Not to take credits from you or call the elemen a bad player. You did outplay him, good job. However, I think if he didn’t panic at the begining, using Mist Form against Blade Trail, he’d have won.

If you noticed, he was immobilized at the beginning. My immobilize lasts 5 seconds, and I would have killed him in that duration if he didn’t Mist Form. So, I basically forced him into a bad situation, and forced him to Mist Form. [Hands rubbing together like an evil genius ensues]

Playing an Ele helps to learn the counters to the class, but that is still no excuse for cheesy mechanics that need to be fixed.

^no im sorry but he played badly.Despite the fact htat he didnt dodge it or didnt initiated in air which would give hime access to updraft but in water which took away his cond cleansing he could still try and use cleansing wave.Or he could go in fire and drop a quick close phoenix in hope that he cures the immob when it returns.
Even if he couldnt think of these things(which an exp ele does) he shouldnt have immediately waste INSTANT skill when he can blow it at the very end with no worries :P
Not to mention that the after game wasnt that good anyway..
(im not bashing phantaram btw ..i watch his stream and he can play much much better than that lately..not to mention he doesnt run bunker )

Try running an ele without at least 20 in water and 20 in arcana, i dare you.

You die if anyone looks at you. Buff overall survability (ie base health or toughness increase, nerf 1.0 ratio to .75 or .50 on heals (increase base by 10%—lets dmg eles sustain a tiny bit) nerf RTL to a 20 second cool down. Problem solved

Change warrior movement skills to not be effected by conditions, gg.

Shananigans.8412:

Try running an ele without at least 20 in water and 20 in arcana, i dare you.

You die if anyone looks at you. Buff overall survability (ie base health or toughness increase, nerf 1.0 ratio to .75 or .50 on heals (increase base by 10%—lets dmg eles sustain a tiny bit) nerf RTL to a 20 second cool down. Problem solved

Change warrior movement skills to not be effected by conditions, gg.

^ This. There should be a middle ground somewhere between the way Eles and Warriors are balanced. Warriors have great base stats, so their weapon and utility skills suck. Eles have low base HP and innate toughness, but their abilities make up for the natural weaknesses ten-fold.

Devs need to find that middle ground, which is not that far away, and gg. Balanced.

hharry.1967:

Who uses the healing signet? When you have a 15s heal that heals a lot and strips all your conditions?

Almost everyone.

Ether Renewal is a PvE heal.

zone.1073:

Shananigans.8412:

Try running an ele without at least 20 in water and 20 in arcana, i dare you.

You die if anyone looks at you. Buff overall survability (ie base health or toughness increase, nerf 1.0 ratio to .75 or .50 on heals (increase base by 10%—lets dmg eles sustain a tiny bit) nerf RTL to a 20 second cool down. Problem solved

Change warrior movement skills to not be effected by conditions, gg.

^ This. There should be a middle ground somewhere between the way Eles and Warriors are balanced. Warriors have great base stats, so their weapon and utility skills suck. Eles have low base HP and innate toughness, but their abilities make up for the natural weaknesses ten-fold.

Devs need to find that middle ground, which is not that far away, and gg. Balanced.

I’d rather have some immunity or escape mechanics built into the melee weapons like they do with mesmer. (blurs, blocks, weapon-based protection boon) rather than more base health.

It encourages more intelligent play. (the way I gear up my engi so I can spam blind non-stop)

Shananigans.8412:

Try running an ele without at least 20 in water and 20 in arcana, i dare you.

You die if anyone looks at you. Buff overall survability (ie base health or toughness increase, nerf 1.0 ratio to .75 or .50 on heals (increase base by 10%—lets dmg eles sustain a tiny bit) nerf RTL to a 20 second cool down. Problem solved

Change warrior movement skills to not be effected by conditions, gg.

100 times this!
More base survivability! More damage for our auto-attacks! Then you can nerf the rest

plasmacutter.2709:

zone.1073:

Shananigans.8412:

Try running an ele without at least 20 in water and 20 in arcana, i dare you.

You die if anyone looks at you. Buff overall survability (ie base health or toughness increase, nerf 1.0 ratio to .75 or .50 on heals (increase base by 10%—lets dmg eles sustain a tiny bit) nerf RTL to a 20 second cool down. Problem solved

Change warrior movement skills to not be effected by conditions, gg.

^ This. There should be a middle ground somewhere between the way Eles and Warriors are balanced. Warriors have great base stats, so their weapon and utility skills suck. Eles have low base HP and innate toughness, but their abilities make up for the natural weaknesses ten-fold.

Devs need to find that middle ground, which is not that far away, and gg. Balanced.

I’d rather have some immunity or escape mechanics built into the melee weapons like they do with mesmer. (blurs, blocks, weapon-based protection boon) rather than more base health.

It encourages more intelligent play. (the way I gear up my engi so I can spam blind non-stop)

This also!
I’d rather have water evades than water heals ( I swear to god that it’s true!)
I love the trident exactly for this, evasive skills on every single attunement…that’s how staff and scepter/focus should be and ford/d you could remove the healing/condition removal from cleansing wave and add an evasive roll back with dmg like ice wall…but sigh…none of these changese will ever happen

Caffynated.5713:

hharry.1967:

Who uses the healing signet? When you have a 15s heal that heals a lot and strips all your conditions?

Almost everyone.

Ether Renewal is a PvE heal.

Once you taste the power of ether renewal in pvp, and learn how to use it, that signet goes to trash can.

I think making chill aura only proc on attacks from within melee range would be enough of a nerf to make eles killable.

Atm you can only kill them with a very high burst class like 100 nades- and it is actually quite difficult to get that kind of burst off on the OP ele builds because of all the defensive CDs they have.

If chill doesn’t proc when the ele is attacked from range then they could also be brought down by sustained damage and could be chased to an extent (but still be very mobile).

zone.1073:

If you noticed, he was immobilized at the beginning. My immobilize lasts 5 seconds, and I would have killed him in that duration if he didn’t Mist Form. So, I basically forced him into a bad situation, and forced him to Mist Form. [Hands rubbing together like an evil genius ensues]

Not to take away from your victory, but there’s no way you can tell me that Mist Form was smart with a straight face. You immobilized him and then did a dodge roll backwards. Is that how you usually set up your burst? By immobilizing and dodge rolling away?

Why would he Mist Form with that large a gap between you and him and the fact that you dodged away, widening the gap.

Let’s call a bad decision what it is, please.

Med.6150:

Not to take away from your victory, but there’s no way you can tell me that Mist Form was smart with a straight face. You immobilized him and then did a dodge roll backwards. Is that how you usually set up your burst? By immobilizing and dodge rolling away?

Why would he Mist Form with that large a gap between you and him and the fact that you dodged away, widening the gap.

Let’s call a bad decision what it is, please.

You’re underestimating the amount of gap-closing and damage a Warrior is capable of doing within 5 seconds on a stationary target. Any Ele who would have saved Mist Form for a Bull’s Charge knockdown would have died in that situation. That’s how I kill Eles; they think “Oh it’s just an immobilize, I’ll just hang onto Mist Form. Oh I’m getting my face destroyed, but it’s okay the immobilize ends in 5…4…3…okay I’m in downed state, what just happened.”

When fighting against Eles, it’s helpful to have experience maining an Ele myself. That’s how you learn how to deal with them. However, that is no excuse for cheesy mechanics. Balance is still necessary.

Match vs Gasmask’s team (2 rangers, 2 Eles PZ style). You can see how I handle against these Eles in this match too. Just watch their HP bars in the top left throughout the match.

zone.1073:

Their mobility is unparalleled because Ride the Lightning is unaffected by slows. An Ele can be crippled, or chilled, or both, and zip away with RtL at full speed and at maximum distance. Even if you think you’re smart and try to immobilize them, it’s not like Eles are condi-cleansing-deprived like Warriors are – Nope, they have the means to cleanse immobilizes quite easily. No matter what you do to the Ele, if the Ele wants to GTFO, he will indeed GTFO with great success.

Some of the strongest defensive cooldowns in the game (Ele’s shocking and chill auras) are instant cast. Where is the opportunity cost in that? You would think that such powerful abilities would provide some room for counter-gameplay; Nope.

Ele’s damage is extraordinarily efficient and powerful because some of their hardest-hitting abilities also come with a 100% critical hit chance built into them. So, Eles don’t need to build crit chance and be glassy like everyone else to do damage. Eles can skip the Berserker’s Amulet, have defensive traits and armors, and still rock out the big damages due to their ability mechanics.

Yeh. I reackon its a bug RTL not being effected by chills/cripple. It makes no sense. And the cleansing wave 10s cooldown is laughable.

Look at the warriors defy pain – 90 second cooldown – the same as the warrior skill. Its the same through every portion of the game except ele. The passive should have the same cd as the active.

zone.1073:

You’re underestimating the amount of gap-closing and damage a Warrior is capable of doing within 5 seconds on a stationary target. Any Ele who would have saved Mist Form for a Bull’s Charge knockdown would have died in that situation.

I seemed to underestimate the amount of nonsense that can be used to argue apparently. I don’t care about how long that immobilize was, I don’t care about the damage you deal, there’s no way to spin that popping a 3s invul after a root and a dodge roll backwards (that alone took 1s out of the Mist Form) was preferable to actually waiting for the warrior to set up his burst and then Mist Form if needed.

That’s totally ignoring the fact that he didn’t even try to cleanse the immobilize, which thanks to you dodging away, he would have had plenty of time with cleansing wave. If that had failed, he could have at least pulled out some cooldowns out of you instead of misting right away, without being in danger at all.

Either way, I realize I am wasting time.

zone.1073:

Med.6150:

Not to take away from your victory, but there’s no way you can tell me that Mist Form was smart with a straight face. You immobilized him and then did a dodge roll backwards. Is that how you usually set up your burst? By immobilizing and dodge rolling away?

Why would he Mist Form with that large a gap between you and him and the fact that you dodged away, widening the gap.

Let’s call a bad decision what it is, please.

You’re underestimating the amount of gap-closing and damage a Warrior is capable of doing within 5 seconds on a stationary target. Any Ele who would have saved Mist Form for a Bull’s Charge knockdown would have died in that situation. That’s how I kill Eles; they think “Oh it’s just an immobilize, I’ll just hang onto Mist Form. Oh I’m getting my face destroyed, but it’s okay the immobilize ends in 5…4…3…okay I’m in downed state, what just happened.”

When fighting against Eles, it’s helpful to have experience maining an Ele myself. That’s how you learn how to deal with them. However, that is no excuse for cheesy mechanics. Balance is still necessary.

Match vs Gasmask’s team (2 rangers, 2 Eles PZ style). You can see how I handle against these Eles in this match too. Just watch their HP bars in the top left throughout the match.

That ele was so bad, mist form is always the last resource, you can always blink away, go to water and remove immo and then dodge, use cleansing fire to remove immo, or even earth dagger 3 to immobilize the warrior before he can charge you, if the warrior has no stability you can always use a defensive knock down as well. So many things you can do before using mist form…

lol at Shake it off and FGJ meta claims

It clearly is over powered. I see more and more eles every day. It’s even worse because even the bad ones have learned enough of the mechanics, build, and rotation to be incredibly durable meanwhile trying to land their burst. I can put tens of thousands of damage on an elementalist but if I can’t interupt them(and they have stability), or are invulnerable, or are in mist form, or are healing themselves, or I’m busy dodging their burst. To make it worse even the bad elementalists only have to learn the build and the rotation and they suddenly have overpowered survivability with burst capability.

Also alot of the cast times on ele abilities are faster than they should be. For example why are elementalist knock backs faster than warrior Hammer knock backs? They have more condi removal, healing, boons, and ability to still burst down a warrior- so lets allow them a knock down that is faster than the Warrior Hammer knock down(not to mention the other kitten they have running + on more efficient cooldowns)? Why did that make sense when you even made the Hammer warrior. They heal more thn a warrior by a vast amount, and have huge sustained dps compared just as an example.

Give me 24k passive hp and heavy armor and you can have my heals, my 13k hp and light armor.

zone.1073:

Med.6150:

Not to take away from your victory, but there’s no way you can tell me that Mist Form was smart with a straight face. You immobilized him and then did a dodge roll backwards. Is that how you usually set up your burst? By immobilizing and dodge rolling away?

Why would he Mist Form with that large a gap between you and him and the fact that you dodged away, widening the gap.

Let’s call a bad decision what it is, please.

Oh I’m getting my face destroyed, but it’s okay the immobilize ends in 5…4…3…okay I’m in downed state, what just happened."

Yet, here you are talking about cheese…rofl

It’s hilarious when people try to defend D/D Bunker Ele’s as if they’re not blatantly OP.

[/quote]

Yeah lol try to run an ele without 20 water and 20-30 arcana then come back and tell me how fantastic ele sustain is, you keep comparing glass cannon warrior to bunker ele, do you know any viable burst ele build where you don’t get one-shotted in 1s?[/quote]

I didn’t compare a glass cannon to a bunker. I compared defensive traits with defensive traits. A warriors options are not as good as a elementalists on the defensive side. Elementalist can strive in glass cannon builds, but just like any glass cannon it’s high risk.

All I’m saying is that ANet needs to make more builds “viable”, otherwise why have them available?