Guild Wars 2

Would be nice if we could buy elite specs individually from the cash shop like you can with gods in Smite. I mention this here on the spvp forum because its an idea that is something that would probably appeal to spvp players.

Buying the whole expansion is a lot for those of us who really only play spvp, but buying just the elite specs is something that anyone who has played a moba before is probably used to, and fits in well with the spvp setting and “esports” theme.

I know I would definitely buy specs this way if they were reasonably priced, but I am hesitant to spend money on the whole of HoT since it is the same price as the original game and I would only be getting it for the elite specs.

To be honest, elite specs should be free for anyone playing SPvP.

SPvP always had that one thing going on for it, which is no grind or paying required to be on an equal footing with everyone else. This already got slightly removed when they introduced plain better sigil which must be unlocked with gold.

The amount of gold required is fairly low.

If the gemstore is involved, even if you can convert Gold to Gems, those specs will be unreasonable expensive.

Making them free for SPvP use only is just going back to the roots. It’s not like GW2 doesn’t have other stuff to sell. Finishers, skins for players and the new mist champions can use skins aswell. There are ways to monitize players in GW2 without charging them for gameplay advantages.

And honestly, elite specs are just that: plain more power. They are often straight upgrades over their standard counterpart.

Varonth.5830:

To be honest, elite specs should be free for anyone playing SPvP.

SPvP always had that one thing going on for it, which is no grind or paying required to be on an equal footing with everyone else. This already got slightly removed when they introduced plain better sigil which must be unlocked with gold.

The amount of gold required is fairly low.

If the gemstore is involved, even if you can convert Gold to Gems, those specs will be unreasonable expensive.

Making them free for SPvP use only is just going back to the roots. It’s not like GW2 doesn’t have other stuff to sell. Finishers, skins for players and the new mist champions can use skins aswell. There are ways to monitize players in GW2 without charging them for gameplay advantages.

And honestly, elite specs are just that: plain more power. They are often straight upgrades over their standard counterpart.

You do realize devs work late hours for balance fixing and designing new skills and you are asking it to be free?

jayson.6512:

You do realize devs work late hours for balance fixing

Are they? When will it be in game?

Laraley.7695:

jayson.6512:

You do realize devs work late hours for balance fixing

Are they? When will it be in game?

^

Especially new skills will not be designed working overtime.
But even critical balance problem often take weeks if not months to fix.

And yes I am asking for a competitive field. That why I play GW2 PvP in the first place. The PvP gameplay itself is okayish. But it always had the even playingfield thing going for it. That one got thrown out of the window, replaced with hilarious elite specs which are only available via real money.

Imagine Valve would announce tomorrow that they will add new heroes and items, but unlike before you have to buy them with real money. The internet would, rightfully so, explode with P2W claims. But for some inexplicable reason ANet gets a pass on this because they are also a MMO?

I am asking for free classes in the so called competitive PvP mode. Not in WvW, not in PvE. They strife to become am esport title. Do you believe that viewers watching a tournament or grand final for the first time, will go into the game test sPvP and will just dish out 40 (currency) to play with the elite specs they just saw on the stream?

No, they will deem it P2W and leave immediately as they will see mainly if not solely elite specs being played by the big guys, which aren’t available without dishing out a significant amount of money.

Yes, asking them to be free isn’t directly because I want them for free (I already own HoT anyway so I wouldn’t get anything out of this directly). I want the scene to grow, and that requires them to be free so new players aren’t scared away by a massive entry fee.

Varonth.5830:

SPvP always had that one thing going on for it, which is no grind or paying required to be on an equal footing with everyone else. This already got slightly removed when they introduced plain better sigil which must be unlocked with gold.

Well, except you did have to pay for the game itself. That’s what has happened here. The game is now HoT, that is the current version of GW2, and everyone who bought it is on equal footing.

I do get what you’re saying, and I don’t think Anet communicates very well (as in, their communications to the public are often confusing, poorly worded, lacking detail, etc.). And it seems as if they don’t believe that there are people who don’t ever want to play their PvE (despite them launching their entire franchise with separate PvE and PvP game modes).

And yeah, it stings that those who only play PvP have to shell out 50.00 for the current version of the game. But at the same time, why should PvP players get access to something for free, that people in other game modes have to pay for? The way that this game is designed, this was going to be an issue no matter what.

What really needs to happen is more balancing to buff some of the weaker trait lines and nerf some others (not just the elite ones, either). But 1 month is not enough time to make sweeping game changes like that, and I doubt the meta has really settled yet.

Teevell.1684:

Varonth.5830:

SPvP always had that one thing going on for it, which is no grind or paying required to be on an equal footing with everyone else. This already got slightly removed when they introduced plain better sigil which must be unlocked with gold.

Well, except you did have to pay for the game itself. That’s what has happened here. The game is now HoT, that is the current version of GW2, and everyone who bought it is on equal footing.

I do get what you’re saying, and I don’t think Anet communicates very well (as in, their communications to the public are often confusing, poorly worded, lacking detail, etc.). And it seems as if they don’t believe that there are people who don’t ever want to play their PvE (despite them launching their entire franchise with separate PvE and PvP game modes).

And yeah, it stings that those who only play PvP have to shell out 50.00 for the current version of the game. But at the same time, why should PvP players get access to something for free, that people in other game modes have to pay for? The way that this game is designed, this was going to be an issue no matter what.

What really needs to happen is more balancing to buff some of the weaker trait lines and nerf some others (not just the elite ones, either). But 1 month is not enough time to make sweeping game changes like that, and I doubt the meta has really settled yet.

It doesn’t matter anymore that you had to buy the game to gain access in the first place. It now is a F2P game. New players can download and start playing the game without buying anything. If they try PvP and see that there is absolutely no option for them to be on the same level as someone that payed money they will leave again.

Monetizing players using cosmetic microtransactions works fine. You don’t even have to be a behemoth like Valve. Just look at Path of Exile. They launched a full new chapter for free (bringing the game from 3 to 4 arcs), and all they sell is more tabs for your account chest and cosmetics.

So I don’t see why ANet shouldn’t be able to sell cosmetics only to PvP players.

You guys trying to apply a business-model that’s for a very specific kind of game to a game that just isn’t that. Just because the core game went F2P, doesn’t mean ANet has to or wants to follow the business model of many other F2P-games out there, since the “real” game (HoT) is NOT F2P.

The F2P part is not meant to be able to compete with the players that bought the game, F2P-players should call themselves lucky they can even play sPvP without the Addon. I mean, you couldn’t play SC:Broodwar Ladder when you only have the core game.

Laraley.7695:

jayson.6512:

You do realize devs work late hours for balance fixing

Are they? When will it be in game?

They work late nights to balance? That’s funny that they never then implemented all of their hard work into the game. I guess they just work late nights to balance the sPvP in this game in their imaginations.

Varonth.5830:

Teevell.1684:

Varonth.5830:

SPvP always had that one thing going on for it, which is no grind or paying required to be on an equal footing with everyone else. This already got slightly removed when they introduced plain better sigil which must be unlocked with gold.

Well, except you did have to pay for the game itself. That’s what has happened here. The game is now HoT, that is the current version of GW2, and everyone who bought it is on equal footing.

I do get what you’re saying, and I don’t think Anet communicates very well (as in, their communications to the public are often confusing, poorly worded, lacking detail, etc.). And it seems as if they don’t believe that there are people who don’t ever want to play their PvE (despite them launching their entire franchise with separate PvE and PvP game modes).

And yeah, it stings that those who only play PvP have to shell out 50.00 for the current version of the game. But at the same time, why should PvP players get access to something for free, that people in other game modes have to pay for? The way that this game is designed, this was going to be an issue no matter what.

What really needs to happen is more balancing to buff some of the weaker trait lines and nerf some others (not just the elite ones, either). But 1 month is not enough time to make sweeping game changes like that, and I doubt the meta has really settled yet.

It doesn’t matter anymore that you had to buy the game to gain access in the first place. It now is a F2P game. New players can download and start playing the game without buying anything. If they try PvP and see that there is absolutely no option for them to be on the same level as someone that payed money they will leave again.

It’s not F2P though, it is and always has been B2P (buy to play). If you want to play the most current version of GW2, you have to buy it. Not having a subscription doesn’t make a game free to play. Arenanet failed to communicate their business model properly to the players, as well as many other communication failures. It’s no wonder people are upset.

PvP shouldn’t be about skill not about weither you have xpac or not….. Anet wants to go Esports yet they follow p2w marketing strateg: buy xpac, play elites or uninstall, ty. It is like they are trying to make people go back to wow/LoL etc.

I understand the above points about wanting the elite specs to be available for free in spvp, but at the same time I am quite happy to pay a reasonable sum of money for things like extra classes, skill lines, etc.

For someone like me who really only plays spvp (and sometimes WvW) paying the price of the original game just to use the elite specs is a tough sell. I keep getting faced with choices like, “so do I buy Fallout 4 or get the elite specs?” (Its the same amount of money where I live).

If it was like $20 or something for the specs it would make it look much more attractive. Plus it seems an ideal way to monetize the spvp part of the game (like I said earlier this is similar to what Smite does), as long as it didn’t go crazy with new specs coming out every couple of months.

Yasha.5963:

I understand the above points about wanting the elite specs to be available for free in spvp, but at the same time I am quite happy to pay a reasonable sum of money for things like extra classes, skill lines, etc.

For someone like me who really only plays spvp (and sometimes WvW) paying the price of the original game just to use the elite specs is a tough sell. I keep getting faced with choices like, “so do I buy Fallout 4 or get the elite specs?” (Its the same amount of money where I live).

If it was like $20 or something for the specs it would make it look much more attractive. Plus it seems an ideal way to monetize the spvp part of the game (like I said earlier this is similar to what Smite does), as long as it didn’t go crazy with new specs coming out every couple of months.

I am not saying that elite specs should be free. I am saying that elite specs shouldn’t be SO MUCH BETTER than core specs that it becomes a MUST to have them if you actually want to win any matches, not to mention tournaments/leagues etc.

As long as they don’t expect this game to be an actual esport, then they can keep balance behind paywalls and its not big deal. But they really have to stop with this whole esport thing.

Cynz.9437:

Yasha.5963:

I understand the above points about wanting the elite specs to be available for free in spvp, but at the same time I am quite happy to pay a reasonable sum of money for things like extra classes, skill lines, etc.

For someone like me who really only plays spvp (and sometimes WvW) paying the price of the original game just to use the elite specs is a tough sell. I keep getting faced with choices like, “so do I buy Fallout 4 or get the elite specs?” (Its the same amount of money where I live).

If it was like $20 or something for the specs it would make it look much more attractive. Plus it seems an ideal way to monetize the spvp part of the game (like I said earlier this is similar to what Smite does), as long as it didn’t go crazy with new specs coming out every couple of months.

I am not saying that elite specs should be free. I am saying that elite specs shouldn’t be SO MUCH BETTER than core specs that it becomes a MUST to have them if you actually want to win any matches, not to mention tournaments/leagues etc.

Sure, I was referring to a different post(s) above regarding the free part. But I defiantly agree with you that no matter what the business model is, it is extremely important to have some semblance of balance, which is currently lacking with the elite specs.

Thing is you’re not paying the money for just the XPac and the new elites. You’re essentially paying for it and all future updates, additions, rebalances, streamlining, holiday tracks, new maps, new heros for stronghold etc.

At least till the next expansion hits. Even if they bring out the next expansion in a year and a half, for the price you’re getting a lot if you even set foot outside of PvP just once in a while and I know some posters here certainly do that.

Varonth.5830:

To be honest, elite specs should be free for anyone playing SPvP.

SPvP always had that one thing going on for it, which is no grind or paying required to be on an equal footing with everyone else. This already got slightly removed when they introduced plain better sigil which must be unlocked with gold.

The amount of gold required is fairly low.

If the gemstore is involved, even if you can convert Gold to Gems, those specs will be unreasonable expensive.

Making them free for SPvP use only is just going back to the roots. It’s not like GW2 doesn’t have other stuff to sell. Finishers, skins for players and the new mist champions can use skins aswell. There are ways to monitize players in GW2 without charging them for gameplay advantages.

And honestly, elite specs are just that: plain more power. They are often straight upgrades over their standard counterpart.

No, spvp pays like everyone else.

Just do what other games do, allow people to purchase the specialization with money in game so that there is a play option. Multiple sPvP games do that. Put like 200 gold per specialization. Done.

Why no just buy the expansion? Only 50€, that’s about the price to drive with a taxi home or eat dinner etc.

Laraley.7695:

jayson.6512:

You do realize devs work late hours for balance fixing

Are they? When will it be in game?

Sorry when i said late hours i didn’t mean they can release it after 1 day of working day.
just like most people without programming knowledge you guys can’t understand just most of my clients asking to build their business solutions system in a week. Programmers are not what you see in Hollywood just comment out a line and it’s working perfectly.

jayson.6512:

Laraley.7695:

jayson.6512:

You do realize devs work late hours for balance fixing

Are they? When will it be in game?

Sorry when i said late hours i didn’t mean they can release it after 1 day of working day.
just like most people without programming knowledge you guys can’t understand just most of my clients asking to build their business solutions system in a week. Programmers are not what you see in Hollywood just comment out a line and it’s working perfectly.

Balance changes don’t take up lots of programming time though. Changing a property from 0.6 to 0.9 isn’t a time- or resource-comsuming change and there’s basically a zero percant chance for it to introduce a bug.

Sure, bugfixing, especially locating bugs, can take lots of time. But the problem in pvp has never been fixing bugs (well not the main problem). The problem always was extremely slow balance patches.

And balance patches don’t take much programming time. They DO take design time though which ANet simply doesn’t seem to want to spend for PVP.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

jayson.6512:

Laraley.7695:

jayson.6512:

You do realize devs work late hours for balance fixing

Are they? When will it be in game?

Sorry when i said late hours i didn’t mean they can release it after 1 day of working day.
just like most people without programming knowledge you guys can’t understand just most of my clients asking to build their business solutions system in a week. Programmers are not what you see in Hollywood just comment out a line and it’s working perfectly.

Balance changes don’t take up lots of programming time though. Changing a property from 0.6 to 0.9 isn’t a time- or resource-comsuming change and there’s basically a zero percant chance for it to introduce a bug.

Sure, bugfixing, especially locating bugs, can take lots of time. But the problem in pvp has never been fixing bugs (well not the main problem). The problem always was extremely slow balance patches.

And balance patches don’t take much programming time. They DO take design time though which ANet simply doesn’t seem to want to spend for PVP.

Anyone who’s even bothered to mod games knows it’s not as simple as changing one value. I won’t admit to having a clue just what’s under the hood of GW2 but some games I’ve modded changing a value even by 10% often took me several hours to get properly working depending on how convoluted its interactions with other parts were and hunting down each line that needed changing.

I bought expac even though my characters have < 5% map completion in the last 3+ years. Lol I cant even access the new maps yet. And if I wanted the elite specs, I still have to farm for hero points on base and elite skills. No ty. Too boring. Lots of games with more excitement than the pve here. Maybe introducing 2 price points would have worked – one for pve/pvp and pvp only for like $15-20.

But as it stands right now, if you pvp a lot, the $50 is still cheap for the entertainment value you extract from it. I remember buying ESO for $80 and played 3 hours during BW and 0 hours on release. Lol.

apharma.3741:

Anyone who’s even bothered to mod games knows it’s not as simple as changing one value. I won’t admit to having a clue just what’s under the hood of GW2 but some games I’ve modded changing a value even by 10% often took me several hours to get properly working depending on how convoluted its interactions with other parts were and hunting down each line that needed changing.

For simple changes to damage, it is 99% of the time just simply changing a value. I expect it is no different here.
Now if you wanted to change how abilities function that might require some scripting, but even then the actual time it would take the scripters to do that isn’t overly long, unless you wanted to do something totally off the wall.

The reason the changes are so long in coming are quite simply:
a) needing raw data – what the playerbase says should always be taken with large amounts of salt. It’s usually better to wait a month or so to collect metrics, to get a clear picture. Otherwise you’re just spitballing the balance which never ends well for anyone.
b) making sure your changes don’t have unforeseen consequences. Often especially in game with as complex as meta as this one, even the slightest of changes can cause majors changes, and the last thing a dev wants is to break something else.

Signed,
Someone who does programming as a career, and does modding as a hobby.

I’m also a programmer by trade and I can tell you that if:

1. It took this long to fix major bugs like getting immobilized for no know reason;
2. Not being able to actually see anything on the screen cause of some fancy new effects or BUGS with powerful skills ; and
3. Have a tendency to be exceptionally inconsistent in the way I treat various parts of the product

I would be fired and replaced without a second thought, but this is ANET so it’s all good I guess.

Snorcha.7586:

I’m also a programmer by trade and I can tell you that if:

1. It took this long to fix major bugs like getting immobilized for no know reason;
2. Not being able to actually see anything on the screen cause of some fancy new effects or BUGS with powerful skills ; and
3. Have a tendency to be exceptionally inconsistent in the way I treat various parts of the product

I would be fired and replaced without a second thought, but this is ANET so it’s all good I guess.

aahhh another one of those “if this where my company…”

2 & 3 are subjective opinions. Number 1 shows you’ve never worked with the amazing complexity that is a modern game engine. (that pac-man project you did java 101 doesn’t count)

That not to say they should just leave bugs, but for the love of god debugging games is extremely time consuming because of all the interacting bits. This isn’t your college programming assignment.

Snorcha.7586:

I’m also a programmer by trade and I can tell you that if:

1. It took this long to fix major bugs like getting immobilized for no know reason;
2. Not being able to actually see anything on the screen cause of some fancy new effects or BUGS with powerful skills ; and
3. Have a tendency to be exceptionally inconsistent in the way I treat various parts of the product

I would be fired and replaced without a second thought, but this is ANET so it’s all good I guess.

Well i understand what you mean e.g Bulls Charge of Warrior and ES.

Crinn.7864:

Snorcha.7586:

I’m also a programmer by trade and I can tell you that if:

1. It took this long to fix major bugs like getting immobilized for no know reason;
2. Not being able to actually see anything on the screen cause of some fancy new effects or BUGS with powerful skills ; and
3. Have a tendency to be exceptionally inconsistent in the way I treat various parts of the product

I would be fired and replaced without a second thought, but this is ANET so it’s all good I guess.

aahhh another one of those “if this where my company…”

2 & 3 are subjective opinions. Number 1 shows you’ve never worked with the amazing complexity that is a modern game engine. (that pac-man project you did java 101 doesn’t count)

That not to say they should just leave bugs, but for the love of god debugging games is extremely time consuming because of all the interacting bits. This isn’t your college programming assignment.

This is not a “if it where my company” post. Leaving a bug that completely interrupts the flow of combat for OVER 2 YEARS is simply embarrasing and to be quite frank poor form. I guess my priorities as a programmer are different then the ones here, so be it.

Thiefz.3695:

Just do what other games do, allow people to purchase the specialization with money in game so that there is a play option. Multiple sPvP games do that. Put like 200 gold per specialization. Done.

Something like this would also be a great idea.

apharma.3741:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

jayson.6512:

Laraley.7695:

jayson.6512:

You do realize devs work late hours for balance fixing

Are they? When will it be in game?

Sorry when i said late hours i didn’t mean they can release it after 1 day of working day.
just like most people without programming knowledge you guys can’t understand just most of my clients asking to build their business solutions system in a week. Programmers are not what you see in Hollywood just comment out a line and it’s working perfectly.

Balance changes don’t take up lots of programming time though. Changing a property from 0.6 to 0.9 isn’t a time- or resource-comsuming change and there’s basically a zero percant chance for it to introduce a bug.

Sure, bugfixing, especially locating bugs, can take lots of time. But the problem in pvp has never been fixing bugs (well not the main problem). The problem always was extremely slow balance patches.

And balance patches don’t take much programming time. They DO take design time though which ANet simply doesn’t seem to want to spend for PVP.

Anyone who’s even bothered to mod games knows it’s not as simple as changing one value. I won’t admit to having a clue just what’s under the hood of GW2 but some games I’ve modded changing a value even by 10% often took me several hours to get properly working depending on how convoluted its interactions with other parts were and hunting down each line that needed changing.

I’ve developed business software for over 10 years, and modded several games. Everything you said is basically wrong.

jayson.6512:

You do realize devs work late hours for balance fixing and designing new skills and you are asking it to be free?

Anet decided to offer their core game for free, that is YEARS of development time given away for free. Big picture we are talking about hundreds of hours of playable content for free, but 9 trait lines in a single game mode (designed to promote fair and balanced PVP) gated.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Why no just buy the expansion? Only 50€, that’s about the price to drive with a taxi home or eat dinner etc.

I pay like 10-15$ for dinner. What are you eating?

uhohhotdog.3598:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Why no just buy the expansion? Only 50€, that’s about the price to drive with a taxi home or eat dinner etc.

I pay like 10-15$ for dinner. What are you eating?

I think he is referring to a three course meal in your average restaurant, where it is possible for bills like that for a meal

Granted, 50 bucks immediately can be off-puting to some, say you got a low income and still need to pay for other stuff – It might be a novel idea to sell the seperate elites for a set amount of money (or gems, dunno), because it is a great way for people to get what they want and need for a small price, and might help those who only play one profession quite so as well, for 50 euros is a lot when you only use a small portion of it

Free or for some gold, the elit spec has to cost no more real money for no HOT player. It’s ashamed how the game become, ze game is really in favor to elite spec.