Guild Wars 2

With a couple exceptions, since HoT we’ve seen the strength of the elite specs literally take over the competitive scene. At the present time it’s glaringly clear that the elite specs are so strong that playing a base spec on most professions is noticeably weaker and thereby unviable.

I’m simply wondering if it’s Anet’s intent for the base professions to be as competitive/strong as the elites.

I do not want this to be a p2w discussion although I can see that does play into this conversation. I’m just genuinely wondering if we can expect the base specs to be brought in line with the elites, or vice versa.

If they wanted the core-classes be around the same level as the “elite specs”, then they would not name it “elite”.
I see it as playing in gw1 without an elite skill. You can make fun builds, but you’ll never be on the same level as others.

It’s either a P2W discussion or a balance discussion. There’s multiple threads pointing out the lack of balance between professions and elites vs non-elites. Those have gotten a single peep from Anet. 0 response. So it’s obvious discussing balance is pointless. The only thing left to discuss is P2W, and I think you’re smart enough to guess why elites are the new “meta”.

Bubi.5237:

If they wanted the core-classes be around the same level as the “elite specs”, then they would not name it “elite”.
I see it as playing in gw1 without an elite skill. You can make fun builds, but you’ll never be on the same level as others.

The name of the spec is just unfortunate. Anet stated several times they’re not supposed to be better, but a different way to play the class. So no, I don’t think they should be this strong compared to core specs, but I guess that’s how you sell an xpack.

Ironically for us warriors, the “core” class is the “elite” and vice versa

Laraley.7695:

Bubi.5237:

If they wanted the core-classes be around the same level as the “elite specs”, then they would not name it “elite”.
I see it as playing in gw1 without an elite skill. You can make fun builds, but you’ll never be on the same level as others.

The name of the spec is just unfortunate. Anet stated several times they’re not supposed to be better, but a different way to play the class. So no, I don’t think they should be this strong compared to core specs, but I guess that’s how you sell an xpack.

You know, when they make stronger classes/specs to sell it and name it ‘elite’, it’s a lil’ bit hard to think that they were not aware of it when naming it

And as afaik we’ll have more elite specs while only one can be used at the same time (last slot), I’ll continue to see it as gw1’s elite skills even if I’m wrong

I strongly believe elite specializations are intended to be better; they add to the classes without taking anything away from them. They are purely upgrades.

In the meantime, players who not own the expansion no longer have a chance to compete in PvP. ArenaNet knew that by not unlocking elite specializations for everyone in PvP, and by not segregating core players from expansion players, it would create an insane imbalance. It’s nothing more than a betraying incentive to pay for the expansion.

As it stands, players with elite specializations go around, one-shotting entire teams of core classes, and all they have to say is “L2P”. Yet, we all know that core classes can’t do the same to elite specializations.

It is a strange situation we are in, some elite specs are a upgrade to the core class without question: herald, tempest, reaper, scraper, chronomancer, daredevil. Thees 6 violate the claim arena net made that the elites are not suppose to be upgrades, because they are just better in every possible way than the core class they belong to.

Druid is strong but what it gives to the ranger does not clash with what the ranger did before. The ranger lacked group support outside of the spirits (most of which are not good), spotter and some group fury and might, and the druid gives them support through healing and some additional cc (not that the core ranger lacked cc). This is a well designed elite spec, one that you do not want to run in every build (i think most ppl run it cos the word elite is slapped to the trait line).

Same for berzerker which is under tuned at the moment. It does not feel like a upgrade but rather a trait line that covers a weakness of the base class which is the obvious and slow high impact skills (earth shaker, back breaker, hundred blades, ect). By going berserk you gain additional attack speed which makes landing those skills easier as well as some more options for cc that further increase your chance to execute those high impact skills.

Same for dragon hunter which might be over tuned. It gives them a good ranged weapon and some heavy cc, all of which the base class lacks.

This is how all elite specialization should be, not the chronomanccer that gets more active defenses (block and a hp/skill reset) when the core class has plenty of those, not the daredevil that gets a extra dodge (gets essentially the pre nerf acrobatics back with a fancy dodge animation, and a staff whose skills resemble the s/p set), not the tempest that gets arcane/water blend 2.0.

Something is very wrong with the balance of the game when almost no one uses non elite specializations. Also change the name to oriented specializations or something along those lines so that people like Bubi do not get confused by what these are suppose to be.

/end rant

I don’t think chronomancer is as much of an upgrade to mesmer as everyone thought it would be. I mean for power shatter builds it is, since you’d take illusions prepatch, and chronomancer has all the strengths of illusions for CD management with more utility. For other builds though it feels like you really feel the loss of the base class traitline.

Just so everyone’s aware, chronomancer doesn’t give you dramatically more sustain as a mesmer like you’d think. Those shield blocks are great when a DH, reaper, scrapper have enough unblockable CC to make it negligable, while things like herald have very high access to regular unblockable attacks.

So yeah, you get alacrity which is amazing, and you get quickness, slow, or a way to have good clone uptime without dueling, but you don’t get sustain. Thats why things like mantra builds don’t work well with chronomancer, and why nearly every good chronomancer build right now uses well and alacrity support in some way, because its the only way to justify taking the traitline over something like inspiration or chaos that provides more defense or sustain.

For other classes though its different. Tempest is only stronger than D/D ele in teamfights, while reaper/scrapper/druid always wants to take their elite spec with no question.

foste.3098:

Something is very wrong with the balance of the game when almost no one uses non elite specializations.

This is what I’m getting at. I don’t think it was intended for the elite specs to be exorbitantly stronger than the base ones, but we ended up opposite of that for the most part.

That said, it was refreshing to see a few base specs in yesterday’s qualifier matches but the elite specs were still predominant.

They will bring the elite specs down from the heavens after the holiday season when everyone is done buying the expansion. Got to keep your player base feeling like they have to buy it.

Rangelost.4857:

I strongly believe elite specializations are intended to be better; they add to the classes without taking anything away from them. They are purely upgrades.

In the meantime, players who not own the expansion no longer have a chance to compete in PvP. ArenaNet knew that by not unlocking elite specializations for everyone in PvP, and by not segregating core players from expansion players, it would create an insane imbalance. It’s nothing more than a betraying incentive to pay for the expansion.

As it stands, players with elite specializations go around, one-shotting entire teams of core classes, and all they have to say is “L2P”. Yet, we all know that core classes can’t do the same to elite specializations.

Colin J has stated that elite specs are not supposed to be stronger than base specs. As was mentioned before in this thread, they are just supposed to be an alternate way to play. So given the current situation one of two things happened:

1. Colin J lied (i very much doubt this)
2. Balance team failed (much more likely)

I think you’ll continue to see the elite specs brought more in line, although with the current balance team, it will likely take awhile.