Guild Wars 2

You know what I love?

When players say a game that they paid 50 bucks for is p2w as if the content that would clearly allow them to win is not more or less easily attainable, if not obtained already.

What do you want, lmao

honestly the only p2w thing is if you look cosmetically better than someone else
but i do see your point

Fashion wars are srs business.

This has to be the dumbest post on the forums. It called buying the game. No one can pay for an advantage over any other player. Its your fault if you dont buy the game! kitteng stupid pay2win comparison. Period.

What I think is amazing is that people believe that Gw2/HoT are F2p, when the are P2P for all of the core mechanics, yes it doesn’t have a monthly subscription fee but if you want full functionality you need to buy the Expac. They allow the F2p base Gw2 as a pseudo free trial.

The game isn’t GW2 anymore. It’s GW2 Heart of Thorns and it’s Buy to Play. The base game is essentially the trial version.

If you don’t like it, tough. Go play something else if it bothers you that much. There’s no way Anet is going to give you the specs for free when they’re a core selling point.

Even if the elite specs are more powerful atm, its only $60 or something. Its on a totally different level than games like AA.

Jim Hunter.6821:

I can give 1 example that supports the argument that it’s p2w..

Ranger pets are the profession mechanic, they have nothing to do with druid. In pvp rangers are supposed to have access to all of their pets, including the GW1 HoM pets, to keep the playing field level.

In HoT the dev’s created new pets whose abilities allow them to work around the broken AI and land their hits. They are simply better pets because of this and anet locked them behind a pay wall.

You can argue the elite specs are simply a different way to play, but preventing rangers from having full access to their profession mechanic unless they pay money is p2w.

Its funny you should say that, my ranger has had me wondering the same thing. In fact i posted a bug report this week on website in game, asking why i can’t select the tiger or smokescale pet, not realizing they are only for hot.(smokescale is now most popular and i wanted to try tiger for the fury buff) and I also complained that my pets were not always attacking even when full health and right next to enemy when pressing f1. Also that Juvenile tiger pet says its amphibious lol, I thought my account was bugged .

Now i realize, after a guildy finally told me, its I need HOT, wow. No wonder I didn’t get a reply back on my bug report lmao.

Also, its easy to argue gw2 is now p2w, when the dominating toons by far now are DH guardian, revenant, and reaper necro when played by decent players. To say that we just need to learn how to play against them is a far stretch. I love when people tell me that i shouldn’t step into the guardian traps, as if its something I needed to be told lol. Hopefully they get balanced. out.

Besides thinking my ranger was hacked and bugged (ignorantly), I’m also a little disappointing i can’t use the rune of ogre on my warrior anymore. It seems since they had to remove a rune druids were using, they removed similar ones other toons commonly use too so the druid users dont’ feel bad… I think thats wrong.

I still enjoy playing my ranger and warrior. I just now use a straight meta builds from metabattle.com, instead of the unique builds i once used. Want to make a necro but think it will be kitten compared to reaper. But that being said, I’m still having alot of fun in the game and having good matches.

Also i have to say to may of the posters, its not about how much it is p2w compared to other games, its that its p2w at all. If they don’t balance these new classes like dh guardian, reaper necro, revenant, daredevil, druid, which i have faith that they will….then even a one time 60 dollar payment to get viable competitive meta builds, would be considered p2w. Its not about how less it cost compared to other games.

Some letters about HoT. (just 4 fun, but something is true.)

I can jump more than a kangaroo and kill u only pressing shift.
I can kill u and i don’t even know, i just forgot where i drop my utility skills.
I can be a power bunker invisible and blocking all ur dmg.
I can reaper you pressing some buttons.
I can overheal more than a holy priest who is always spaming heals.
I can stay invisible forever and call something to finish you.
I can get a nerf but what i need is a rework.
I can use a warhorn but nahhhhhh, who cares?
I can pewpew u but i still need a rampage to be effective.

Elite: A select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society.

What’s there to prove? Only way to attain “elite” skills is to buy HoT, read above for a dictionary definition of the word “Elite”.

Unless we just use words to sound cool on the internet without actually knowing what they mean?

(Also comparing to other games is silly, just because they completely over shadow Gw2 in terms of true p2w games doesn’t mean gw2 isn’t p2w. I could kill someone and compare myself to a mass murderer then say I don’t murder anyone off this logic)

I do believe it has turned out to be p2w. Probably not intentionally, but nearly every (or every?) elite spec is just simply better than base classes. It does give you an advantage over people without hot and there’s no question about it. I wonder how long it will take for people to get tired of playing suboptimal specs and just quit.

Here’s proof. This is not a pay to win game period. Anyone that thinks so doesn’t know what a pay to win game is and just needs to go away.

You can play for free. Doesn’t mean the game is a f2p model. Mike O’Brien specifically said they are still considering themselves a buy to play product. So essentially your entire argument is invalid.

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

You can play for free. Doesn’t mean the game is a f2p model. Mike O’Brien specifically said they are still considering themselves a buy to play product. So essentially your entire argument is invalid.

I disagree. There are people who didn’t buy the xpack, but bought the core game before. It’s like they took what they bought from them, those people still should be able to be competitive in pvp.

Laraley.7695:

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

You can play for free. Doesn’t mean the game is a f2p model. Mike O’Brien specifically said they are still considering themselves a buy to play product. So essentially your entire argument is invalid.

I disagree. There are people who didn’t buy the xpack, but bought the core game before. It’s like they took what they bought from them, those people still should be able to be competitive in pvp.

You’re lucky you can even play with people who have the expac in PvP, to be honest. If you had vanilla StarCraft, and a friend had Brood War, did he pay to win if you were able to play agaist him? No, he’s playing Brood War now.

So come play HoT, or don’t complain that you don’t get everything for free after your initial payment. Expansions aren’t a p2w mechanic.

Any expansions would be p2w by this logic.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Laraley.7695:

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

You can play for free. Doesn’t mean the game is a f2p model. Mike O’Brien specifically said they are still considering themselves a buy to play product. So essentially your entire argument is invalid.

I disagree. There are people who didn’t buy the xpack, but bought the core game before. It’s like they took what they bought from them, those people still should be able to be competitive in pvp.

You’re lucky you can even play with people who have the expac in PvP, to be honest. If you had vanilla StarCraft, and a friend had Brood War, did he pay to win if you were able to play agaist him? No, he’s playing Brood War now.

So come play HoT, or don’t complain that you don’t get everything for free after your initial payment. Expansions aren’t a p2w mechanic.

I have the xpack.

The reason people with and without xpack play together is the fact the population is not high enough to separate them but it still isn’t fair.

Laraley.7695:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Laraley.7695:

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

You can play for free. Doesn’t mean the game is a f2p model. Mike O’Brien specifically said they are still considering themselves a buy to play product. So essentially your entire argument is invalid.

I disagree. There are people who didn’t buy the xpack, but bought the core game before. It’s like they took what they bought from them, those people still should be able to be competitive in pvp.

You’re lucky you can even play with people who have the expac in PvP, to be honest. If you had vanilla StarCraft, and a friend had Brood War, did he pay to win if you were able to play agaist him? No, he’s playing Brood War now.

So come play HoT, or don’t complain that you don’t get everything for free after your initial payment. Expansions aren’t a p2w mechanic.

I have the xpack.

The reason people with and without xpack play together is the fact the population is not high enough to separate them but it still isn’t fair.

What’s another game where you don’t have to buy the expac, but you stay “competitive”? What genre does that happen in, where they don’t add new units/guns/abilities/races/etc. that take the game to a new level, but it’s still an expansion?

Cogbyrn.7283:

Laraley.7695:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Laraley.7695:

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

You can play for free. Doesn’t mean the game is a f2p model. Mike O’Brien specifically said they are still considering themselves a buy to play product. So essentially your entire argument is invalid.

I disagree. There are people who didn’t buy the xpack, but bought the core game before. It’s like they took what they bought from them, those people still should be able to be competitive in pvp.

You’re lucky you can even play with people who have the expac in PvP, to be honest. If you had vanilla StarCraft, and a friend had Brood War, did he pay to win if you were able to play agaist him? No, he’s playing Brood War now.

So come play HoT, or don’t complain that you don’t get everything for free after your initial payment. Expansions aren’t a p2w mechanic.

I have the xpack.

The reason people with and without xpack play together is the fact the population is not high enough to separate them but it still isn’t fair.

What’s another game where you don’t have to buy the expac, but you stay “competitive”? What genre does that happen in, where they don’t add new units/guns/abilities/races/etc. that take the game to a new level, but it’s still an expansion?

That wasn’t the question. The question is if it means it’s pay to win, which it obviously is.

Other games never advertised themselves as : Buy one time only.

Gw2 did.

alain.1659:

Other games never advertised themselves as : Buy one time only.

Gw2 did.

Good thing they didn’t make us buy it again.

Protip: Expacs are a perpetual game’s equivalent of a sequel. Heart of Thorns is effectively Guild Wars 3.

Laraley.7695:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Laraley.7695:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Laraley.7695:

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

You can play for free. Doesn’t mean the game is a f2p model. Mike O’Brien specifically said they are still considering themselves a buy to play product. So essentially your entire argument is invalid.

I disagree. There are people who didn’t buy the xpack, but bought the core game before. It’s like they took what they bought from them, those people still should be able to be competitive in pvp.

You’re lucky you can even play with people who have the expac in PvP, to be honest. If you had vanilla StarCraft, and a friend had Brood War, did he pay to win if you were able to play agaist him? No, he’s playing Brood War now.

So come play HoT, or don’t complain that you don’t get everything for free after your initial payment. Expansions aren’t a p2w mechanic.

I have the xpack.

The reason people with and without xpack play together is the fact the population is not high enough to separate them but it still isn’t fair.

What’s another game where you don’t have to buy the expac, but you stay “competitive”? What genre does that happen in, where they don’t add new units/guns/abilities/races/etc. that take the game to a new level, but it’s still an expansion?

That wasn’t the question. The question is if it means it’s pay to win, which it obviously is.

By the literal interpretation of pay2win sure. By the actual conversational meaning of pay2win no it isn’t.

d/d cele eles are still effective….as long as you don’t encounter a DH.

Laraley.7695:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Laraley.7695:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Laraley.7695:

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

You can play for free. Doesn’t mean the game is a f2p model. Mike O’Brien specifically said they are still considering themselves a buy to play product. So essentially your entire argument is invalid.

I disagree. There are people who didn’t buy the xpack, but bought the core game before. It’s like they took what they bought from them, those people still should be able to be competitive in pvp.

You’re lucky you can even play with people who have the expac in PvP, to be honest. If you had vanilla StarCraft, and a friend had Brood War, did he pay to win if you were able to play agaist him? No, he’s playing Brood War now.

So come play HoT, or don’t complain that you don’t get everything for free after your initial payment. Expansions aren’t a p2w mechanic.

I have the xpack.

The reason people with and without xpack play together is the fact the population is not high enough to separate them but it still isn’t fair.

What’s another game where you don’t have to buy the expac, but you stay “competitive”? What genre does that happen in, where they don’t add new units/guns/abilities/races/etc. that take the game to a new level, but it’s still an expansion?

That wasn’t the question. The question is if it means it’s pay to win, which it obviously is.

Obvious to whom? This goes against how I’ve seen “pay to win” used in every single other game in the past.

Can you buy gear in the in-game store that has better stats than gear you can earn? Pay to win.

Can you buy buffs in the in-game store that give you an advantage, that you can’t earn in the game? Pay to win.

Can you buy in-game money with real currency, then turn that into high-end gear that you didn’t have to earn by crafting/playing? Pay to win, but at least there’s a way to earn the gear in-game. It’s more “pay to win until more people catch up”. Archeage was like this, along with being actually pay to “win” (have an easier time doing things) in other facets of the game.

And now we’re adding to the list “Can you buy the expansion and get access to new content that makes your character potentially more powerful in the PvP meta?”. What’s next? Is basketball going to be pay to win, because you can buy nice shoes and have better ankle support than someone just sporting tennis shoes? Is StarCraft 2: Legacy of the Void going to be pay to win, because you can’t compete if you don’t have the latest version of the game?

You pay to play HoT. If you didn’t pay to play HoT, you’re fortunate to be able to play with HoT people, but you’re going to be at a figurative level 60 in vanilla WoW while everyone else has leveled to 70 in Burning Crusade.

alain.1659:

Other games never advertised themselves as : Buy one time only.

Gw2 did.

ANet advertised that you’d never have to pay for an expansion? When and where? Show me the ad campaign, I’m curious.

God, this kitten question again. THIS WILL ALWAYS DEPEND ON CLASS CHOICES AND BALANCE CHANGES.

Ele does fine without Tempest. Ranger without Druid? Yeah, not so much.
Revenant is kinda insane with Herald… without? Dunno if there’s even a real build.
Guardian will always have a place, both as DH and normal Guard.
Warrior is kittened with or without elite spec.
Mesmer is really great with or without Chronomancer.
Celestial Signet Necro is still one of their best builds even without Reaper.
Thief is basically in the meta only because of shortbow 5 anyway.
Engineer has good specs without Scrapper too, though Scrapper is probably a bit OP right now and will see nerfs anyway.

Can we just get these people banned whining about this? They have no clue what a pay to win game is. Whine whine whine whine.

i think you missunderstand P2W ….

I also do not get ppl that QQ about the necessity to own HOT in order to compete.
What is wrong with these ppl ?
The game has no subscription fee.
The game allows you to reroll another profession to PVP with , without having to grind gear and stuff- that’s amazing.

PPl should really step out in the reality and rethink before making posts like this …

P2w=pay to win=an increase in effectiveness gained by paying above and beyond the normal games amount

Ex. In game of war a big p2w game at anytime you can buy chests that are otherwise rare and super hard to get….if u buy u get about 5k chests which is about a year of farming for them…so the more you pay the better you do….

This shows why gw2 is not a p2w…if it was i could buy newer better traitlines every week not have it come with an expansion after 3 yrs…p2w gives you a very small boost but makes you stronger with each purchase

Thanks for the useful answers and ty for the ppl who knows whats this topic about.
For those who not:
If I have to pay(one time) to get advantages against other players, if it increases my chance to win a battle against them then I call it “pay to win”
Why?
Cause I paid to get the advantage to win a battle easier.
OK literally I should call it “one time pay for increased winning chance” but no one cares about. So plz drop this case cause it’s out of control.
No more posts about the meaning of p2w plz but post your duel experineces and duel videos. Ty.

calling now for all gw1 veterans, i started gw with nightfall so i dont know for sure BUT in gw1 each expansion also introduced new skills and new proffesions, you could not use these skills/profs without buy the expansions….am i wrong? isnt this with every game that gets expansions?

Bazooka.3590:

Thanks for the useful answers and ty for the ppl who knows whats this topic about.
For those who not:
If I have to pay(one time) to get advantages against other players, if it increases my chance to win a battle against them then I call it “pay to win”
Why?
Cause I paid to get the advantage to win a battle easier.
OK literally I should call it “one time pay for increased winning chance” but no one cares about. So plz drop this case cause it’s out of control.
No more posts about the meaning of p2w plz but post your duel experineces and duel videos. Ty.

You can call the game an FPS doesn’t make it one.

This is how games work. Deal with it and stop posting nonsense.

This game is buy to play, not pay to win. A quality AAA mmorpg, truly unique in its genre, for a mere 50 bucks over 3 years. Now we had an expansion where we pay another 50 bucks, or 50 bucks in total if you’re a new player. There are no pay walls required through cash shop which also clearly means this game isnt p2w, it’s clear that many doesnt really understand this term.

People will find excuses for the tiniest thing because they’re selfentitled and deluded.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Laraley.7695:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Laraley.7695:

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

You can play for free. Doesn’t mean the game is a f2p model. Mike O’Brien specifically said they are still considering themselves a buy to play product. So essentially your entire argument is invalid.

I disagree. There are people who didn’t buy the xpack, but bought the core game before. It’s like they took what they bought from them, those people still should be able to be competitive in pvp.

You’re lucky you can even play with people who have the expac in PvP, to be honest. If you had vanilla StarCraft, and a friend had Brood War, did he pay to win if you were able to play agaist him? No, he’s playing Brood War now.

So come play HoT, or don’t complain that you don’t get everything for free after your initial payment. Expansions aren’t a p2w mechanic.

I have the xpack.

The reason people with and without xpack play together is the fact the population is not high enough to separate them but it still isn’t fair.

What’s another game where you don’t have to buy the expac, but you stay “competitive”? What genre does that happen in, where they don’t add new units/guns/abilities/races/etc. that take the game to a new level, but it’s still an expansion?

That would be esport type games like Lol and Smite. One of the most attractive things about Gw2 is (or was) its level playing field in spvp. Its still much fairer than other mmos I have played though.

Sekai.2987:

calling now for all gw1 veterans, i started gw with nightfall so i dont know for sure BUT in gw1 each expansion also introduced new skills and new proffesions, you could not use these skills/profs without buy the expansions….am i wrong? isnt this with every game that gets expansions?

I think the issue is that the new specs are in general much stronger overall than the old specs. Although as others have said its only another $60 (well about $80 for me). Seems a bit expensive just for playing spvp, but I certainly got my money’s worth out of the buying the original game at launch.

Yasha.5963:

Sekai.2987:

calling now for all gw1 veterans, i started gw with nightfall so i dont know for sure BUT in gw1 each expansion also introduced new skills and new proffesions, you could not use these skills/profs without buy the expansions….am i wrong? isnt this with every game that gets expansions?

I think the issue is that the new specs are in general much stronger overall than the old specs. Although as others have said its only another $60 (well about $80 for me). Seems a bit expensive just for playing spvp, but I certainly got my money’s worth out of the buying the original game at launch.

You can’t call it pay to win just because things aren’t balanced properly.

Fashion Wars can be pay to win, it’s true.

And they are absolutely serious.

Pay to win arrangements you find a lot of in mobile gaming with developers of questionable/sleazy backgrounds.

HoT pvp is sorta in the gray area because 99% of the expac is pve related content.

It DOES give you an edge for NOW. But once a major balance update takes place, the new elite specs may risk falling behind core specs. It’s not technically pay to win because you can still win using core builds.

uhohhotdog.3598:

Yasha.5963:

Sekai.2987:

calling now for all gw1 veterans, i started gw with nightfall so i dont know for sure BUT in gw1 each expansion also introduced new skills and new proffesions, you could not use these skills/profs without buy the expansions….am i wrong? isnt this with every game that gets expansions?

I think the issue is that the new specs are in general much stronger overall than the old specs. Although as others have said its only another $60 (well about $80 for me). Seems a bit expensive just for playing spvp, but I certainly got my money’s worth out of the buying the original game at launch.

You can’t call it pay to win just because things aren’t balanced properly.

If you can pay to get more powerful classes it is pay to win.

Yasha.5963:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Laraley.7695:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Laraley.7695:

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

You can play for free. Doesn’t mean the game is a f2p model. Mike O’Brien specifically said they are still considering themselves a buy to play product. So essentially your entire argument is invalid.

I disagree. There are people who didn’t buy the xpack, but bought the core game before. It’s like they took what they bought from them, those people still should be able to be competitive in pvp.

You’re lucky you can even play with people who have the expac in PvP, to be honest. If you had vanilla StarCraft, and a friend had Brood War, did he pay to win if you were able to play agaist him? No, he’s playing Brood War now.

So come play HoT, or don’t complain that you don’t get everything for free after your initial payment. Expansions aren’t a p2w mechanic.

I have the xpack.

The reason people with and without xpack play together is the fact the population is not high enough to separate them but it still isn’t fair.

What’s another game where you don’t have to buy the expac, but you stay “competitive”? What genre does that happen in, where they don’t add new units/guns/abilities/races/etc. that take the game to a new level, but it’s still an expansion?

That would be esport type games like Lol and Smite. One of the most attractive things about Gw2 is (or was) its level playing field in spvp. Its still much fairer than other mmos I have played though.

Do LoL and Smite have expansions? In LoL, when they release new heroes, don’t you have to buy them? Does buying access to the “good” heroes in LoL make it a pay-to-win game? Otherwise I’m stuck with the rotation heroes, which may not give me a real shot at winning.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Yasha.5963:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Laraley.7695:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Laraley.7695:

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

You can play for free. Doesn’t mean the game is a f2p model. Mike O’Brien specifically said they are still considering themselves a buy to play product. So essentially your entire argument is invalid.

I disagree. There are people who didn’t buy the xpack, but bought the core game before. It’s like they took what they bought from them, those people still should be able to be competitive in pvp.

You’re lucky you can even play with people who have the expac in PvP, to be honest. If you had vanilla StarCraft, and a friend had Brood War, did he pay to win if you were able to play agaist him? No, he’s playing Brood War now.

So come play HoT, or don’t complain that you don’t get everything for free after your initial payment. Expansions aren’t a p2w mechanic.

I have the xpack.

The reason people with and without xpack play together is the fact the population is not high enough to separate them but it still isn’t fair.

What’s another game where you don’t have to buy the expac, but you stay “competitive”? What genre does that happen in, where they don’t add new units/guns/abilities/races/etc. that take the game to a new level, but it’s still an expansion?

That would be esport type games like Lol and Smite. One of the most attractive things about Gw2 is (or was) its level playing field in spvp. Its still much fairer than other mmos I have played though.

Do LoL and Smite have expansions? In LoL, when they release new heroes, don’t you have to buy them? Does buying access to the “good” heroes in LoL make it a pay-to-win game? Otherwise I’m stuck with the rotation heroes, which may not give me a real shot at winning.

Exactly you don’t have to buy them to be competitive, glad you understand.

Bazooka.3590:

Mightymealworm.8409:

You can’t pay for skill, sorry.
/thread

player 1
gw2 pvp skill: 100
plays: non elites

VS

player 2
gw2 pvp skill: 100
plays: elites

My condi spec on Engie can beat ALL the Elite specs. You guys believing that things are pay 2 win is just all sorts of misguided really.

Wait until balance patch comes in. It’s too early to say that HoT makes you win more games considering the Elite specs are still subject to changes and even maybe the base classes.

I have HoT and I still use base classes on some of my character and my overall experience hasn’t changed that much. The only thing that bothered me were the DH. But now that I found a way to deal with them it made me realized how weak the class really is.

Yasha.5963:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Yasha.5963:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Laraley.7695:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Laraley.7695:

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

You can play for free. Doesn’t mean the game is a f2p model. Mike O’Brien specifically said they are still considering themselves a buy to play product. So essentially your entire argument is invalid.

I disagree. There are people who didn’t buy the xpack, but bought the core game before. It’s like they took what they bought from them, those people still should be able to be competitive in pvp.

You’re lucky you can even play with people who have the expac in PvP, to be honest. If you had vanilla StarCraft, and a friend had Brood War, did he pay to win if you were able to play agaist him? No, he’s playing Brood War now.

So come play HoT, or don’t complain that you don’t get everything for free after your initial payment. Expansions aren’t a p2w mechanic.

I have the xpack.

The reason people with and without xpack play together is the fact the population is not high enough to separate them but it still isn’t fair.

What’s another game where you don’t have to buy the expac, but you stay “competitive”? What genre does that happen in, where they don’t add new units/guns/abilities/races/etc. that take the game to a new level, but it’s still an expansion?

That would be esport type games like Lol and Smite. One of the most attractive things about Gw2 is (or was) its level playing field in spvp. Its still much fairer than other mmos I have played though.

Do LoL and Smite have expansions? In LoL, when they release new heroes, don’t you have to buy them? Does buying access to the “good” heroes in LoL make it a pay-to-win game? Otherwise I’m stuck with the rotation heroes, which may not give me a real shot at winning.

Exactly you don’t have to buy them to be competitive, glad you understand.

You don’t have to buy expansions, because expansions don’t exist? That’s your argument to me asking what games with expansions don’t require you to buy them to be competitive?

Sigh. I should know better than this. I’ll see myself out.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

kdaddy.5431:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

yes it’s pay to win tough. Elite specs seem to genereally add on the previous established meta, parts of some meta. Or certain combinations of traitlines that favour dps, Burst AOE and now a bit more frequently PbAOE. I think that people that argue that elite specs aren’t as strong as the old build. Are mainly arguing from a 1 v 1 scenario. And even that is in my opinion a bit exagarated. Put 5 elite specs vs 5 non elite specs. And have them duke it out in Mid.. Chances are the non elite specs get nuked out of existence to the point that even Grenth and Balthazar will say: ‘’kittenn!!! That’s a bit too much. ’’

No match should ever have a 5 vs 5

also bunker guard with the old meta dps warrior and d/d ele still can beat any of the new spec 3 v s 3. Better yet 2 d/d ele and 1 dps longbow ranger since the new dh all seem to be using traps, scrappers are using hammer for the most part. So if you want to pick 3 and i pick 3 the old meta still works.

it happens more often then you think mate.

But no. I don’t see your set up beating the following elite specs, Dragonhunter, Reaper Chronomancer..

The standard dps lonbow ranger get ussually focused down first. And that is something any of the 3 elte specs can do easily, no sweat.The DPS lonbowranger is can’t do much here really aside from spamming 2 2 2 2 and 1 1 1 1 1 1. the moment it get’s focused down it’s death Also the chronomancer with it’s tides of time or echo of memory can easily block the initial burst. And at the same time apply slow in the initial combo. Assuming the phantasm cannot reach the ranger. It will go for the 2 dagger/Dagger ele.

Reapers have tons of chill and in death shroud they can hit for an average of 5 to 6 k cleave. on average. A single dragonhunter trap can hit for 8 k and procession of blades only has a 25 sec cd. dragonsmaw. and an average cleave of a reaper when focused can kill a single dagger/dagger ele just like that. Also it’s not uncommon to run DH with medi guards specs here. Neither is it uncommon to run signet reapers as well. thier boon corruption is pretty much what they need to get rid of a traditional cantrip dagger/dagger ele. the thing is here. Dagger/dagger fight close ranged against a medi DH with an 8 to 10 k trap in 25 sec cd. a reaper with an average of 5 to 6 cleave with signets. And a chronomancer that would have no trouble whatsoever stomping a longbow ranger.

As I said before. I wager very good players can maby rack up builds that allow them to beat the elite specs in 1 on 1. Or use a meta build to beat an elite spec 1 v 1. But the moment you fight them ing rooups it will show you how much lacking your dps is. The reason you beat an elite spec is pretty much due to skill level. it’s because you are so good that you can master them and know them in depth most of the time. Or have a build that fundamentally hardcounters a certain build.

Don’t take this too litterally. But your powerlevels are basically to low here. whatever dps you can dish out singelhandily is completel meaningless in a teamfight. Heck more often then not strategy and skill sometimes even take a backseat. You simply are that friggishly powerfull.

Heck how many people here still continue to get baited in an 8 k to 10 k procession of blades trap?

Or get cleaved by an reaper in reaper shrowd? Or get CC’ed to hell by a an scrapper?

Whatever situation you could describe here. Is not really how it really goes here.The average player is not going to analyse the elite specs in full. And look for counter. they often go to mid with like 3 to 4 guys. And simply get nuked. Countless threads prove it here.

The exception proves the rule. not the other way around.

This isnt right though, what you are saying could potentially happen but you make it sound like your gonna sit in the trap or sit in the reaper 4 skill and the range will just sit there.

D/D ele is still being used in the ESL tournaments and we had 2 longbow rangers in finals before the HOT came out to face the abjured.

Mace shield/ GS warrior is still one of the best 1 vs 1 builds out there. Your talking a about trap Dh then i say old staff ele build with magnetic aura share, dps warrior and long bow ranger.

We target necro first he will die instantly from rampage and pew pew ranger. Dh kill himself from magnetic aura and we dont run into his traps or better yet we have 1 stability to get out.

With the more build options i know people who went back to S/D on thief and they pick and choose. Pew pew rangers are better since scrappers and Dh sit in a spot and wait for you to come them. I can now run signet of stone with a pet shout to take incoming damage and the DH literally will try to exchange dps with longbows with me.

Your talking skill level which is perfectly fine but the old meta builds are still being used at the highest level of competition in this game.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Yasha.5963:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Yasha.5963:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Laraley.7695:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Laraley.7695:

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

You can play for free. Doesn’t mean the game is a f2p model. Mike O’Brien specifically said they are still considering themselves a buy to play product. So essentially your entire argument is invalid.

I disagree. There are people who didn’t buy the xpack, but bought the core game before. It’s like they took what they bought from them, those people still should be able to be competitive in pvp.

You’re lucky you can even play with people who have the expac in PvP, to be honest. If you had vanilla StarCraft, and a friend had Brood War, did he pay to win if you were able to play agaist him? No, he’s playing Brood War now.

So come play HoT, or don’t complain that you don’t get everything for free after your initial payment. Expansions aren’t a p2w mechanic.

I have the xpack.

The reason people with and without xpack play together is the fact the population is not high enough to separate them but it still isn’t fair.

What’s another game where you don’t have to buy the expac, but you stay “competitive”? What genre does that happen in, where they don’t add new units/guns/abilities/races/etc. that take the game to a new level, but it’s still an expansion?

That would be esport type games like Lol and Smite. One of the most attractive things about Gw2 is (or was) its level playing field in spvp. Its still much fairer than other mmos I have played though.

Do LoL and Smite have expansions? In LoL, when they release new heroes, don’t you have to buy them? Does buying access to the “good” heroes in LoL make it a pay-to-win game? Otherwise I’m stuck with the rotation heroes, which may not give me a real shot at winning.

Exactly you don’t have to buy them to be competitive, glad you understand.

You don’t have to buy expansions, because expansions don’t exist? That’s your argument to me asking what games with expansions don’t require you to buy them to be competitive?

Sigh. I should know better than this. I’ll see myself out.

Its fairly straight forward. If you have to pay extra for something that gives you an advantage that is p2w. Before HoT GW2 was completely non-p2w, probably the only mmo that could claim this, at least in spvp.

Is the p2w in HoT something to worry about? I don’t think so. Its in a completely different ballpark to games like AA, where people can spend thousands of dollars to just rolf stomp everyone.

In addition, there is every possibility that balance changes will be made that bring the original specs in line with the newer specs.

HoT is Buy2Play. You have to buy HoT to play HoT.

Stop freeloading, they aren’t going to let you play HoT for free.

paying for the base version of a game isn’t pay2win. HoT the base version now, since expacs the MMO equivalent of a sequel.

In all honesty, the elites should be better or at least bring something powerful to the table. It’s not like they hand you the elite for free or you can pay gems for it, people go out there and earn them by exploration (except in pvp where it is FREE for anyone to use).

They’re already giving you the entire core game for free, stop whining.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Sigh. I should know better than this. I’ll see myself out.

I’d be amused to see these people reaction if they had to play any other MMO.

Like holy crap, I thought the RP’ers in SWTOR where whiney, this is something else entirely.

havent done sPvP yet since HoT but in WvW i dont really have problem with em players.. on the other hand is it not possible for Anet to simply add a check box for people too be only matched up with Core gw2 players and not HoT and if HoT players do want to play with the Core gw2 players they just get their kitten disabled and basically play the “old gw2” ?

tho the above seems bit late people paid for it and its not pay 2 win u buy it once and u can do same as em, i didnt bought HoT either but i dont really complain about new elite specs deal with it or buy HoT.

if this would be pay2win then i dunno anymore what pretty much any other mmo is doing nowadays where u kinda find a new item in store every month which if u dont buy it u feel a massive gap between u and the guy that did bought it.
top of that game designers will make that item so u can lvl it up which massive chance to fail in order for you to buy tons of em or they put a time frame on it so u need to buy more then 1 in order to have it up for long long time.. thats pay2win seen it been there its not even funny..

had to buy every week tons of kitten from store in order too pvp if not u would simply get 2/3 shotted while u barely scratched their balls..

now what u prefer 1 time 50 euro or w/e and have fun for years?
or every week 50 euro and have fun for 1 week?