Elites vs non elites? Duel it.
Sigh. I should know better than this. I’ll see myself out.
I’d be amused to see these people reaction if they had to play any other MMO.
Like holy crap, I thought the RP’ers in SWTOR where whiney, this is something else entirely.
I’m completely floored by this thread. It used to be that if you give people an inch, they take a mile. Now, it’s like they expect the mile.
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
yes it’s pay to win tough. Elite specs seem to genereally add on the previous established meta, parts of some meta. Or certain combinations of traitlines that favour dps, Burst AOE and now a bit more frequently PbAOE. I think that people that argue that elite specs aren’t as strong as the old build. Are mainly arguing from a 1 v 1 scenario. And even that is in my opinion a bit exagarated. Put 5 elite specs vs 5 non elite specs. And have them duke it out in Mid.. Chances are the non elite specs get nuked out of existence to the point that even Grenth and Balthazar will say: ‘’kittenn!!! That’s a bit too much. ’’
No match should ever have a 5 vs 5
also bunker guard with the old meta dps warrior and d/d ele still can beat any of the new spec 3 v s 3. Better yet 2 d/d ele and 1 dps longbow ranger since the new dh all seem to be using traps, scrappers are using hammer for the most part. So if you want to pick 3 and i pick 3 the old meta still works.
it happens more often then you think mate.
But no. I don’t see your set up beating the following elite specs, Dragonhunter, Reaper Chronomancer..
The standard dps lonbow ranger get ussually focused down first. And that is something any of the 3 elte specs can do easily, no sweat.The DPS lonbowranger is can’t do much here really aside from spamming 2 2 2 2 and 1 1 1 1 1 1. the moment it get’s focused down it’s death Also the chronomancer with it’s tides of time or echo of memory can easily block the initial burst. And at the same time apply slow in the initial combo. Assuming the phantasm cannot reach the ranger. It will go for the 2 dagger/Dagger ele.
Reapers have tons of chill and in death shroud they can hit for an average of 5 to 6 k cleave. on average. A single dragonhunter trap can hit for 8 k and procession of blades only has a 25 sec cd. dragonsmaw. and an average cleave of a reaper when focused can kill a single dagger/dagger ele just like that. Also it’s not uncommon to run DH with medi guards specs here. Neither is it uncommon to run signet reapers as well. thier boon corruption is pretty much what they need to get rid of a traditional cantrip dagger/dagger ele. the thing is here. Dagger/dagger fight close ranged against a medi DH with an 8 to 10 k trap in 25 sec cd. a reaper with an average of 5 to 6 cleave with signets. And a chronomancer that would have no trouble whatsoever stomping a longbow ranger.
As I said before. I wager very good players can maby rack up builds that allow them to beat the elite specs in 1 on 1. Or use a meta build to beat an elite spec 1 v 1. But the moment you fight them ing rooups it will show you how much lacking your dps is. The reason you beat an elite spec is pretty much due to skill level. it’s because you are so good that you can master them and know them in depth most of the time. Or have a build that fundamentally hardcounters a certain build.
Don’t take this too litterally. But your powerlevels are basically to low here. whatever dps you can dish out singelhandily is completel meaningless in a teamfight. Heck more often then not strategy and skill sometimes even take a backseat. You simply are that friggishly powerfull.
Heck how many people here still continue to get baited in an 8 k to 10 k procession of blades trap?
Or get cleaved by an reaper in reaper shrowd? Or get CC’ed to hell by a an scrapper?
Whatever situation you could describe here. Is not really how it really goes here.The average player is not going to analyse the elite specs in full. And look for counter. they often go to mid with like 3 to 4 guys. And simply get nuked. Countless threads prove it here.
The exception proves the rule. not the other way around.
This isnt right though, what you are saying could potentially happen but you make it sound like your gonna sit in the trap or sit in the reaper 4 skill and the range will just sit there.
D/D ele is still being used in the ESL tournaments and we had 2 longbow rangers in finals before the HOT came out to face the abjured.
Mace shield/ GS warrior is still one of the best 1 vs 1 builds out there. Your talking a about trap Dh then i say old staff ele build with magnetic aura share, dps warrior and long bow ranger.
We target necro first he will die instantly from rampage and pew pew ranger. Dh kill himself from magnetic aura and we dont run into his traps or better yet we have 1 stability to get out.
With the more build options i know people who went back to S/D on thief and they pick and choose. Pew pew rangers are better since scrappers and Dh sit in a spot and wait for you to come them. I can now run signet of stone with a pet shout to take incoming damage and the DH literally will try to exchange dps with longbows with me.
Your talking skill level which is perfectly fine but the old meta builds are still being used at the highest level of competition in this game.
I’m not saying that there will no counter play. But I’m basing this on averages. Till so far nobody just dodges traps, or goes stability and calls it day. That’s not how it goes in reality. Ussually you go mid with like 3 to 4 people. And get nuked. by procession of blades and or dragons maw. I mean till now people still have trouble with DH.
people will want to fight on point. Rangers just like necro’s get focused as well. The chronmancer with all of it’s wells would keep them in place. It’s actually a common combo. The key lies in on point figthing here. And that is where the elite specs will have most of it’s advantages here.
Sure you can argue that at the absolute top meta’s are still prevalent. But my friend that is not how your average joe plays. Your average joe still get’s cc’ed to hell scrappers. Or get’s bursted down by chronomancers. I do see the appeal of reffering to esl tier game play but how many of us will reach that level?
BTW I already thought you already picked your 3 builds. But if you go dps warrior. staff ele and longbow ranger. I’d go chronomancer. Dragonhunter and Herald. DPS warriors either run marauders or berserker. the moment it get’s in range. it either get’s nuked or controlled by both chronomaner and Dragonhunter. Sure it can pick it’s double endure pain. But nothing else much. The herald itself can pretty much face tank the initial burst of whatever the lonbow ranger and warrior have offer. with infuse light for example. The thing is here. you still need to kill the DH in less then 25 sec. I don’t see that happening with an herald and chronomancer at his side.
It’s not plausible for a normal player to do that.
Also, sure you can argue that old meta builds are used at highest level of the game. But is everybody in premades that can tango with the abjured? Or with Orange logo, 55hp monks etc? No. there has to be a balance set. And how things currently are. most people cannot fight against an elite spec.
they have a slight chance of winning 1v1. But in teamfights they get nuked.
those that say elites aren’t stronger then the core are delusional.
there is realy few elites that are actualy weak like berseker but the majority is a direct Upgrade and allot of time turns the spec into a 1 man army
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I can give 1 example that supports the argument that it’s p2w..
Ranger pets are the profession mechanic, they have nothing to do with druid. In pvp rangers are supposed to have access to all of their pets, including the GW1 HoM pets, to keep the playing field level.
In HoT the dev’s created new pets whose abilities allow them to work around the broken AI and land their hits. They are simply better pets because of this and anet locked them behind a pay wall.
You can argue the elite specs are simply a different way to play, but preventing rangers from having full access to their profession mechanic unless they pay money is p2w.
Its funny you should say that, my ranger has had me wondering the same thing. In fact i posted a bug report this week on website in game, asking why i can’t select the tiger or smokescale pet, not realizing they are only for hot.(smokescale is now most popular and i wanted to try tiger for the fury buff) and I also complained that my pets were not always attacking even when full health and right next to enemy when pressing f1. Also that Juvenile tiger pet says its amphibious lol, I thought my account was bugged .
Now i realize, after a guildy finally told me, its I need HOT, wow. No wonder I didn’t get a reply back on my bug report lmao.
Also, its easy to argue gw2 is now p2w, when the dominating toons by far now are DH guardian, revenant, and reaper necro when played by decent players. To say that we just need to learn how to play against them is a far stretch. I love when people tell me that i shouldn’t step into the guardian traps, as if its something I needed to be told lol. Hopefully they get balanced. out.
Besides thinking my ranger was hacked and bugged (ignorantly), I’m also a little disappointing i can’t use the rune of ogre on my warrior anymore. It seems since they had to remove a rune druids were using, they removed similar ones other toons commonly use too so the druid users dont’ feel bad… I think thats wrong.
I still enjoy playing my ranger and warrior. I just now use a straight meta builds from metabattle.com, instead of the unique builds i once used. Want to make a necro but think it will be kitten compared to reaper. But that being said, I’m still having alot of fun in the game and having good matches.
I am 100% convinced they removed the ogre and pirate rune because the summoned pet would trigger DH traps and help mitigate the damage from a rev’s UA.
They have to make sure their new and shiny specs are OP compared to the base class so people will buy HoT.
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
LGN
On Necros: (sorry if it’s been posted, didn’t feel like reading the whole thread)
1v1, Reaper seems to have a slight advantage because default necros kinda suck at getting away from melee. Interestingly enough, necros are basically the /only/ class that can’t get away from Reapers, as it’s a well known fact necro mobility is equivalent to a cubic potato.
Overall, however, a necro is at least an equally formidable foe for the average opponent, potentially more. It’s also much easier to have good positioning as a necro, where melee is not mandatory.
yes it’s pay to win tough. Elite specs seem to genereally add on the previous established meta, parts of some meta. Or certain combinations of traitlines that favour dps, Burst AOE and now a bit more frequently PbAOE. I think that people that argue that elite specs aren’t as strong as the old build. Are mainly arguing from a 1 v 1 scenario. And even that is in my opinion a bit exagarated. Put 5 elite specs vs 5 non elite specs. And have them duke it out in Mid.. Chances are the non elite specs get nuked out of existence to the point that even Grenth and Balthazar will say: ‘’kittenn!!! That’s a bit too much. ’’
No match should ever have a 5 vs 5
also bunker guard with the old meta dps warrior and d/d ele still can beat any of the new spec 3 v s 3. Better yet 2 d/d ele and 1 dps longbow ranger since the new dh all seem to be using traps, scrappers are using hammer for the most part. So if you want to pick 3 and i pick 3 the old meta still works.
it happens more often then you think mate.
But no. I don’t see your set up beating the following elite specs, Dragonhunter, Reaper Chronomancer..
The standard dps lonbow ranger get ussually focused down first. And that is something any of the 3 elte specs can do easily, no sweat.The DPS lonbowranger is can’t do much here really aside from spamming 2 2 2 2 and 1 1 1 1 1 1. the moment it get’s focused down it’s death Also the chronomancer with it’s tides of time or echo of memory can easily block the initial burst. And at the same time apply slow in the initial combo. Assuming the phantasm cannot reach the ranger. It will go for the 2 dagger/Dagger ele.
Reapers have tons of chill and in death shroud they can hit for an average of 5 to 6 k cleave. on average. A single dragonhunter trap can hit for 8 k and procession of blades only has a 25 sec cd. dragonsmaw. and an average cleave of a reaper when focused can kill a single dagger/dagger ele just like that. Also it’s not uncommon to run DH with medi guards specs here. Neither is it uncommon to run signet reapers as well. thier boon corruption is pretty much what they need to get rid of a traditional cantrip dagger/dagger ele. the thing is here. Dagger/dagger fight close ranged against a medi DH with an 8 to 10 k trap in 25 sec cd. a reaper with an average of 5 to 6 cleave with signets. And a chronomancer that would have no trouble whatsoever stomping a longbow ranger.
As I said before. I wager very good players can maby rack up builds that allow them to beat the elite specs in 1 on 1. Or use a meta build to beat an elite spec 1 v 1. But the moment you fight them ing rooups it will show you how much lacking your dps is. The reason you beat an elite spec is pretty much due to skill level. it’s because you are so good that you can master them and know them in depth most of the time. Or have a build that fundamentally hardcounters a certain build.
Don’t take this too litterally. But your powerlevels are basically to low here. whatever dps you can dish out singelhandily is completel meaningless in a teamfight. Heck more often then not strategy and skill sometimes even take a backseat. You simply are that friggishly powerfull.
Heck how many people here still continue to get baited in an 8 k to 10 k procession of blades trap?
Or get cleaved by an reaper in reaper shrowd? Or get CC’ed to hell by a an scrapper?
Whatever situation you could describe here. Is not really how it really goes here.The average player is not going to analyse the elite specs in full. And look for counter. they often go to mid with like 3 to 4 guys. And simply get nuked. Countless threads prove it here.
The exception proves the rule. not the other way around.
This isnt right though, what you are saying could potentially happen but you make it sound like your gonna sit in the trap or sit in the reaper 4 skill and the range will just sit there.
D/D ele is still being used in the ESL tournaments and we had 2 longbow rangers in finals before the HOT came out to face the abjured.
Mace shield/ GS warrior is still one of the best 1 vs 1 builds out there. Your talking a about trap Dh then i say old staff ele build with magnetic aura share, dps warrior and long bow ranger.
We target necro first he will die instantly from rampage and pew pew ranger. Dh kill himself from magnetic aura and we dont run into his traps or better yet we have 1 stability to get out.
With the more build options i know people who went back to S/D on thief and they pick and choose. Pew pew rangers are better since scrappers and Dh sit in a spot and wait for you to come them. I can now run signet of stone with a pet shout to take incoming damage and the DH literally will try to exchange dps with longbows with me.
Your talking skill level which is perfectly fine but the old meta builds are still being used at the highest level of competition in this game.
I’m not saying that there will no counter play. But I’m basing this on averages. Till so far nobody just dodges traps, or goes stability and calls it day. That’s not how it goes in reality. Ussually you go mid with like 3 to 4 people. And get nuked. by procession of blades and or dragons maw. I mean till now people still have trouble with DH.
people will want to fight on point. Rangers just like necro’s get focused as well. The chronmancer with all of it’s wells would keep them in place. It’s actually a common combo. The key lies in on point figthing here. And that is where the elite specs will have most of it’s advantages here.
Sure you can argue that at the absolute top meta’s are still prevalent. But my friend that is not how your average joe plays. Your average joe still get’s cc’ed to hell scrappers. Or get’s bursted down by chronomancers. I do see the appeal of reffering to esl tier game play but how many of us will reach that level?
BTW I already thought you already picked your 3 builds. But if you go dps warrior. staff ele and longbow ranger. I’d go chronomancer. Dragonhunter and Herald. DPS warriors either run marauders or berserker. the moment it get’s in range. it either get’s nuked or controlled by both chronomaner and Dragonhunter. Sure it can pick it’s double endure pain. But nothing else much. The herald itself can pretty much face tank the initial burst of whatever the lonbow ranger and warrior have offer. with infuse light for example. The thing is here. you still need to kill the DH in less then 25 sec. I don’t see that happening with an herald and chronomancer at his side.
It’s not plausible for a normal player to do that.
Also, sure you can argue that old meta builds are used at highest level of the game. But is everybody in premades that can tango with the abjured? Or with Orange logo, 55hp monks etc? No. there has to be a balance set. And how things currently are. most people cannot fight against an elite spec.
they have a slight chance of winning 1v1. But in teamfights they get nuked.
you make very good points but its just not the experience im having with people who didnt buy the exp.
I switch between my old rilfe warrior build and the zerk and there about the same. I have 2 friends in my guild and they dont have the Hot expansion. In my other posts i thanked anet for buffing warrior.
We are winning matches 500-100 with 3-4 man teams with 1-2 non HOT builds. 1 guy comes on uses the same d/d build for the last 3 years and still kills across the map. Gets his dailies logs off, i keep bringing in the Longbow ranger cause 1 guild mate uses this as his build and even though he really struggles in the 1 vs 1. He understands what he can be great at and supports the other players in dropping rev/dh/scrappers.
Thieves and mesmers took a big hit from the Aoe and that is the counter of the ranger. I know we wont change each others minds but there is a counter to these builds and i find alot of them still in the old meta. The people i have played with are not struggling.
Im not sure how to take a screen print of my last 10 matches and show since i put them on wordpad and it wont work.
But we are crushing people 500-150 left and right many of them using old builds and some not having bought the exp.
Anecdotal fallacies are irrelevant, I don’t care if you can’t deal with elite specs. This doesn’t make the game P2W. P2W requires money to matter more than skill. The game is free for crying out loud, so if you don’t want to miss out on HoT content then BUY HOT! It isn’t difficult to grasp. The game is rock paper scissors with specs and every elite spec has a counter non-elite spec. Besides that, daredevil is the worst class in the game right now along with berzerker. D/D Celest Ele is still phenomenal and if you want to play more than the old vanilla content you should have to pay for it. You aren’t paying for skills, that’s so ridiculously phrased and obviously bait I don’t know why anyone would argue that.
The missing content is from an expac, you’re essentially complaining the game went free to play. WoW is free to play right now (if you can make gold), but you have to buy the latest expac to get the content from it. It is the exact same thing yet nobody has ever EVER said wow was P2W.
If you don’t want to pay for HoT then you don’t want to play Hot. End of discussion, no silly arguments about subjective class balance. P2W is skill<money, gw2 has nothing in the gem shop that helps your gameplay. Done. Nothing more can be said. Pay to win=/=Pay to play.
gw2 IS NOT PAY 2 WIN. nor is hot. smh you all either lack brain power or simply do not grasp the concept of what p2w is
Go play the MMO Archeage, thats pay to win, and then come back to this thread, you will see HOT is not.
#QQmore.net
Incisorr, really? Let’s see there’s a few games that release expansions that say have new classes, that you could not get unless you bought the expansion, yet you can face them in pvp, one that pops off the top of my head is WoW, if you don’t buy the expansion depending on your level you can be faced with classes you have no way of creating. Say for the 50-70 Brackets the DK was only available to WotLk owners, so yes other Mmos have gated skills behind expansions. Hell that was a whole class that others did not have access to unless they bought the expac….
Best fix would be to stop people without the expac from competing with those that do and low and behold huge Qeue times till people buy the expac
Knightt online had “elite specs” that gave you the option to grind 3 levels for more base stats and 1 extra skill.
Silkroad online, whole european race for free which is stronger than whole chinese race.
Flyff subclasses.
Lineage 2 subclasses
Mu online, magic gladiator, blade knight, soul master, dark lord and the elf next class for free, with every update, the new brawler im not sure.
Granado espada, either quest it or buy the new character from tp
Im not surw but i think mapple story too
All of them f2p and most of them had a season or 2 of greatness also most of them are still alive
The reason gw2 is popular is due nostalgia from gw1 players, face it and accept it, most of you live comparing gw2 with gw1, locking a class behind a paid content is dumb and way worse since anet left core people in the dust, just havig some advantages over f2p accounts, before you say something wow related, you cant reach level cap with a f2p account in wow
The thing you are comparing all those games are F2P while Gw2 was not until HoT and Gw2 base F2p is akin to a free trial not the whole content, Gw2 has always been a P2P non Sub business model, not F2p.