Guild Wars 2

With so many vigor, passive endurance regeneration, active dodges, sigil of energy, etc. it’s impossible to track your enemy dodge bar.

You cannot predict target’s dodges and you cannot plan your bursts, which makes the pvp in gw2 very simple. Right now it’s: do your bursts and pray that the enemy doesn’t randomly dodge.

tldr; there should be a bar below the target’s HP that shows his current endurance
yay or nay?

also: cast bars would be good too, but I understand that you can just look at the animations

POLL: http://strawpoll.me/788586

Yes.

no

Make a poll:
http://strawpoll.me/

Definitely agree to this. This game would have a lot more depth to it. Also, anet please fix balance I would love to have to actually try on warrior again…..

Oni Link.4621:

Make a poll:
http://strawpoll.me/

/done

http://strawpoll.me/788586

tichorum.2415:

no

why not?

This shouldn’t even be a question. This is an important detail and the skill level change from this would be IMMENSE. Pressure force dodgerolls, watch energy, know when the best time to unload is, this would be fantastic for skillful play.

I can hear it now “My target, low on endurance, swap to them, immobing now.”

Please just yes.

ronpierce.2760:

This shouldn’t even be a question. This is an important detail and the skill level change from this would be IMMENSE. Pressure force dodgerolls, watch energy, know when the best time to unload is, this would be fantastic for skillful play.

I can hear it now “My target, low on endurance, swap to them, immobing now.”

Please just yes.

You can already do this with skill so all this would do is make things less skill based than it already is.

glaphen.5230:

ronpierce.2760:

This shouldn’t even be a question. This is an important detail and the skill level change from this would be IMMENSE. Pressure force dodgerolls, watch energy, know when the best time to unload is, this would be fantastic for skillful play.

I can hear it now “My target, low on endurance, swap to them, immobing now.”

Please just yes.

You can already do this with skill so all this would do is make things less skill based than it already is.

You can already tell how much energy people have with Vigor/Passive endur regen traits and the big one, Energy sigils? I really don’t think so…

glaphen.5230:

ronpierce.2760:

This shouldn’t even be a question. This is an important detail and the skill level change from this would be IMMENSE. Pressure force dodgerolls, watch energy, know when the best time to unload is, this would be fantastic for skillful play.

I can hear it now “My target, low on endurance, swap to them, immobing now.”

Please just yes.

You can already do this with skill so all this would do is make things less skill based than it already is.

It’s totally impossible. Sigils, traits, vigor, invisibility, etc.

than i want Initiative bar on enemy thiefs and adrenaline on warrior

or when we are on it – show me buttonbar from enemy too so i can see all cooldowns

seriously

Lol I didnt know people liked the randomness of this game

People don’t like dumbing the game down even further than it is now. I know many players who already hate having the enemy team being revealed on the map in tPvP.

dodge is bad mechanic for pvp

also, there should be skill castbar & endurance bar. this game is chaos and complete lack of information.

milo.6942:

dodge is bad mechanic for pvp

I agree we should take out all skill requirements in this game and make it entirely based off rotations.

glaphen.5230:

milo.6942:

dodge is bad mechanic for pvp

I agree we should take out all skill requirements in this game and make it entirely based off rotations.

dodge creates a black hole of counterplay and forces the game to increase the total overall damage needed to kill players. it contributes nothing to the game and is poorly implemented. it should never have existed, or adren should be displayed to enemies, or there should not be any way to get more than 2 dodges. one of these three options.

Yes, definitely. Can we also get a visual cue for Stability? Crazy to me that we have one for Protection but not Stability.

cymerdown.4103:

Yes, definitely. Can we also get a visual cue for Stability? Crazy to me that we have one for Protection but not Stability.

Just look for the icon before using cc

This would be great. I think it would create more counterplay style of combat that I miss from GW1.

Yes please. It’ll add to the skill cap. Right now people just spam dodge, not using it the way it’s suppose to.

“GW1 was the best PvP game ever in existence”
“Can we get this mechanic similar to GW1?”
“OMFG STOP DUMBING DOWN THE GAME”

Makes total sense.

Unlike a lot of other things that I do think should stay hidden (cast bars, enemy CDs to name the big ones people said), dodge has no way to reliably track regardless of your skill level. What the enemy is casting is something you can learn over time, same with their CDs, but dodging is impossible (unless you’re fighting a Necro, because they don’t get to dodge).

Harbinger.8637:

Yes please. It’ll add to the skill cap. Right now people just spam dodge, not using it the way it’s suppose to.

For people who live outside US (e.g. Oceania) and regularly play at 350-400ms latency/ping, “spam dodge” is the only way to play because it’s impossible to dodge on reaction, we have to do it BEFORE the attack even happens (i.e. predict). I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve been hit/killed mid-dodge…the game’s mechanics break-down at such high latency.

It’s what happens when an MMO company has it’s entire server farm in one location (Texas) and raises the middle finger to everyone who isn’t fortunate enough to live in the US of A.

Harbinger.8637:

Yes please. It’ll add to the skill cap. Right now people just spam dodge, not using it the way it’s suppose to.

It’s easy to play against people that spam dodge. Just time your burst. Bads will dodge every time they have 50 energy. Just count!

Acandis I c your point but some professions are stupid impossible to guess energy levels,

thief? Lol might as well assume they can dodge at any time. How does that promote any form of skillful play?
Engi with elix r, energy sigil, adventure runes, vigor, using toolbelt skills (restores endurance)… GL.

I am for showing endurance bars but this is low on the totem poll for changes needed in this game.

Yeah, and also teamfights. Being able to know who is low on endurance can influence focus fire decisions. More information is usually better when it comes to skillful back-and-forth play, as long as it doesn’t get to the point of information overload. Being able to see a numerical %hp on target would be nice too.

But yeah, I agree, other things are way more important than this.

Acandis.3250:

Whilst thieves do have a high uptime of evade frames, it’s not hard to hit them during non evade frames. Also, if it’s really not that hard if you are familiar with the build and you can become familiar with the weaknesses. It’s not hard to bait out dodges so you can get your burst in when you need to.

Showing enemy energy bar would dumb this game down A LOT.

@Kensuda, your team (specially you as a guardian) should be paying attention to which enemies have used what dodges, also you should know that what builds will have perma vigor and which won’t.

I don’t think this game needs to be dumbed down any more than it already is, it’s not hard to be good at it. What you’re asking for is straight up QQ nerf paying attention and coordination.

I’d also like the mention that the problem is more about what evades are available to each class. If anything, number of available evade-frames for rangers and thieves need to be slightly nerfed. However, you begging for an endurance bar because you don’t wanna count number of dodges… seriously? Do you want to see all their CDs floating above their HP bar, too?

No need to get personal, you just disagree, so that’s fine. I personally like it when more information is readily accessible to both sides in games — I’m more of a Chess person rather than a Poker person (outplaying with both sides having information, as opposed to outplaying one another based on partly or completely hidden information). Endurance in this game is something that matters a ton in combat, but is hard to anticipate on a lot of builds due to varying levels of endurance regen. There’s so much to communicate about on a team in this game, putting more information into the game’s UI and out of your mouth allows you to spend more of your talking time about other things rather than these invisible bars that everyone is mentally keeping track of. But like I said, it’s a difference of opinion, and we can leave it at that, I’m not sure what made you assume I want the feature because I’m bad at keeping track of dodges or making calls for my team.

Acandis.3250:

Godkitten you lazy piece of kitten. Vigor = dodge/5s. Normal = dodge/10s. Energy sigil = dodge/10s.

It’s not that hard to count. If you want to be a good player learn to keep track of CDs.

Glad you always know when the enemy has energy sigils on or passive endurance regen traits. You’re a genius.

cymerdown.4103:

No need to get personal, you just disagree, so that’s fine. I personally like it when more information is readily accessible to both sides in games — I’m more of a Chess person rather than a Poker person (outplaying with both sides having information, as opposed to outplaying one another based on partly or completely hidden information). Endurance in this game is something that matters a ton in combat, but is hard to anticipate on a lot of builds due to varying levels of endurance regen. There’s so much to communicate about on a team in this game, putting more information into the game’s UI and out of your mouth allows you to spend more of your talking time about other things rather than these invisible bars that everyone is mentally keeping track of. But like I said, it’s a difference of opinion, and we can leave it at that, I’m not sure what made you assume I want the feature because I’m bad at keeping track of dodges or making calls for my team.

Not getting personal, I’m just saying as a support class, it’s your job to be calling CDs and keeping track of them. Really it’s everyones job to do so, but it’s typically easier on any bunker since you’re not usually being focused on a proper teamfight.

That being said, the information is readily available. It’s not hard to tell what type of build anyone is running based on their gameplay. And yes, that includes sigils and vigor uptime.

Jackums.3496:

No more screen clutter.

And adding an enemy endurance bar will just make GW2 PvP even more simple than it already is. “Watch the bar. Mash your burst when it’s low. Win.”

The unpredictability of dodges is part of the fun. Having to set up a burst and force your opponent to burn up their evades before initiating it makes for far more interesting gameplay than having a visual cue that tells you you’re free to faceroll away.

This man gets it.

Jackums.3496:

The unpredictability of dodges is part of the fun. Having to set up a burst and force your opponent to burn up their evades before initiating it makes for far more interesting gameplay than having a visual cue that tells you you’re free to faceroll away.

by that same token, you can play with your enemy’s mind by not using up your adrenaline, and make your opponent wait for too long to use their burst. more information available does not mean the game is “dumbed down”. if anything, it’s exactly the unpredictable nature of evades and dodges that makes the best option usually “mash your buttons and pray”.

no no no no
this would make counting dodges when trying to spike a necro etc completely useless and completely destroy the “skill” in this game
when it comes to thieves there are other ways to spike him for example daze/stun him when he is attacking with larcenous strike
please don’t add an endurance bar there

Sensotix.4106:

no no no no
this would make counting dodges when trying to spike a necro etc completely useless and completely destroy the “skill” in this game
when it comes to thieves there are other ways to spike him for example daze/stun him when he is attacking with larcenous strike
please don’t add an endurance bar there

this.

alemfi.5107:

Sensotix.4106:

no no no no
this would make counting dodges when trying to spike a necro etc completely useless and completely destroy the “skill” in this game
when it comes to thieves there are other ways to spike him for example daze/stun him when he is attacking with larcenous strike
please don’t add an endurance bar there

this.

I completely disagree with you. It wouldn’t destroy the game – it would remove some of the insane randomness. Like said before it’s impossible to track endurance of an enemy because of vigor, sigill and some traits. Of course you can count dodges and guess but for example as an elementalist with extremely high burst-CDs it’s essential to know exactly when the enemy can’t dodge.
Bars showing opponents’ resources (also thief initiative, warrior adrenaline and life-force) are an integral part of most MMOs so you can skillfully time your spells – as it is now that’s impossible. You have to guess when the enemy has no endurance, you have to guess when he casts a (specific) spell (asura trolol) and therefore you have to guess when to dodge yourself. Since you never really know when the enemy can dodge or not it’s best to just spam your spells permanently anyways. That’s the most effective playstyle in most scenarios due to low CDs and because there’s no real resource for spells like mana so people don’t get punished for spamming … and you call that skill?
Skill would come from knowing what spells the enemy has, from knowing their approximate CDs, knowing which ones you have to dodge and by having a defensive CD ready when the spell is actually being cast (indicated by a castbar).

I know people won’t really agree with me, but if such bars would have been implemented since release of the game I don’t think that anyone would complain about it – because it’s a perfectly normal thing to have in an MMO.

If you can explain why I couldn’t seen when people were out of Mana in GW1 then you will find the reason why I don’t want to see the enemy’s endurance bar.

Dirame.8521:

If you can explain why I couldn’t seen when people were out of Mana in GW1 then you will find the reason why I don’t want to see the enemy’s endurance bar.

I never really played GW1 but as far as I know it was a completely different game. Anet just took the name (that is certainly misleading because guilds a fairly unimportant in GW2 btw.) … so I don’t really get why people keep comparing GW1 to GW2.

Beside that (or because of that) I don’t really get your point here.

And at all poeple here complaining about the game beeing “dumbed down” or something: PvP in GW2 couldn’t be anymore dumb as it is now. Most of the people talking here just reroll FOTM-classes and think they’re skilled.

Jackums.3496:

And adding an enemy endurance bar will just make GW2 PvP even more simple than it already is. “Watch the bar. Mash your burst when it’s low. Win.”

maybe people would think twice then before spamming dodges …

Jackums.3496:

Having to set up a burst and force your opponent to burn up their evades before initiating it makes for far more interesting gameplay than having a visual cue that tells you you’re free to faceroll away.

you still would have to force your opponent to dodge before you burst. Only difference would be that you know for sure when he’s out of dodges.

It may be my opinion only: but in competetive PvP randomness has no place.

Although I am for endurance bars…….. warriors adreniline, necro DS, ele attune swap, mesmer shatter cd, etc etc SHOULD NEVER be shown. EVER. That is completely making the game idiot proof.

Now endurance bars being show could be very simple and make nearly 0 clutter. Just a skinny lil bar directly below health bar. They could even make health bar skinnier to make room.

This change though if its considered can’t be implemented before big skills animations are ALL fixed, and universal character size. This puts skill with endurance watching. They can c every one of yor big attacks (the ones that need dodged) but they know your endurance. Promotes skillful play better than the random spam we have now.

Now try hard mode would be still fix the animations/size now and not show endurance.. But honestly showing it won’t dumb it down much as most people (those who can’t count dodges to any level at all) don’t know when to dodge period.

Any thoughts?

This could help the game be a little easier to follow for a spectator as well, or somebody who doesnt feel like taking track of 3 different endurance regens on 5 different people along with 5 pets and 5 different stealths.

And how is it so dumbed down when a lot of people would become more aware of a unique gw2 mechanic? Oh noes, they see when i can dodge now, im so mad he didnt have to count to 5.

Whats next? Not showing hp bars? (yes thats a pathetic argument but someone else used it and so will i)

Acandis.3250:

Harbinger.8637:

Yes please. It’ll add to the skill cap. Right now people just spam dodge, not using it the way it’s suppose to.

It’s easy to play against people that spam dodge. Just time your burst. Bads will dodge every time they have 50 energy. Just count!

‘bads bads bads!’

>plays guardian in most casual pvp game in the world

take your flimsy chestbeating elsewhere, we all know that you could count dodges before it was cool now

I’d like to say:

endurance bar might make the game easier for the one that is attacking, but it would make things harder for the target receiving the burst. Because you know that if you missplay one dodge you can easily die.

This would prevent the random dodge spam.

More information = easier for everyone = harder for everyone
Less information = spam = randomness = easier for deffensive builds

Imho, “guessing” enemy endurance bar is nonsense. Imagine you couldn’t see the enemy HP and you had to guess it knowing your damage and enemy heals. Would you like that?

Ah, You mean a castbar promoting actual skilled play like they had in guildwars.. that game that came out years ago that had fantastic pvp of wich this game bought the title and fanbase from but failed to implement any of the good features, professions skills, profession mechanics, type of combat, pvp and more..
instead of releasing a bugged game that has to be played in lowest settings to avoid fps drop and lag and then askes the players to read the animations, of the stick puppets they replaced skins with, together with the particle infested clutterpudge or spam.

man i <3 this game ^^

Gorni.1764:

alemfi.5107:

Sensotix.4106:

no no no no
this would make counting dodges when trying to spike a necro etc completely useless and completely destroy the “skill” in this game
when it comes to thieves there are other ways to spike him for example daze/stun him when he is attacking with larcenous strike
please don’t add an endurance bar there

this.

I completely disagree with you. It wouldn’t destroy the game – it would remove some of the insane randomness. Like said before it’s impossible to track endurance of an enemy because of vigor, sigill and some traits. Of course you can count dodges and guess but for example as an elementalist with extremely high burst-CDs it’s essential to know exactly when the enemy can’t dodge.
Bars showing opponents’ resources (also thief initiative, warrior adrenaline and life-force) are an integral part of most MMOs so you can skillfully time your spells – as it is now that’s impossible. You have to guess when the enemy has no endurance, you have to guess when he casts a (specific) spell (asura trolol) and therefore you have to guess when to dodge yourself. Since you never really know when the enemy can dodge or not it’s best to just spam your spells permanently anyways. That’s the most effective playstyle in most scenarios due to low CDs and because there’s no real resource for spells like mana so people don’t get punished for spamming … and you call that skill?
Skill would come from knowing what spells the enemy has, from knowing their approximate CDs, knowing which ones you have to dodge and by having a defensive CD ready when the spell is actually being cast (indicated by a castbar).

I know people won’t really agree with me, but if such bars would have been implemented since release of the game I don’t think that anyone would complain about it – because it’s a perfectly normal thing to have in an MMO.

i see your point but good players know most of the classes perfectly and know exactly when to burst…for example you can pretty much predict that a mesmer using sword/x and staff will pretty much always phase retreat after the burst and/or dodge and things like that seperate good players from casual players and the game needs stuff like this otherwise it can’t be competetive .. i really hope you get my point seems like i sometimes fail at explaining stuff…
there are always situations where you can be sure that the enemy won’t dodge and good teams know that situation

Jackums.3496:

No more screen clutter.

And adding an enemy endurance bar will just make GW2 PvP even more simple than it already is. “Watch the bar. Mash your burst when it’s low. Win.”

The unpredictability of dodges is part of the fun. Having to set up a burst and force your opponent to burn up their evades before initiating it makes for far more interesting gameplay than having a visual cue that tells you you’re free to faceroll away.

Unpredictability and randomness are not good for a game, although it’s usually fun for very casual play. You say it will make GW2 “simple” but good games, professional games are usually “simple”. Chess is a simple game with huge depth and so is poker. Competitive video games are simple in nature too. How these games actually play can be very interesting, they create their own meta.

A while ago I thought of something similar to the OP, a cooldown in dodging. A game I used to play had dodging(with a 3 sec cooldown) and that cooldown was so important. You don’t need a lot of skills and traits for a game to be good, strong mechanics are much more important. Things like feints, movement skills and positioning interacted with that cooldown mechanic to create more depth. Just throwing a bunch of skills, traits and mechanics into a system and making it complex/random isn’t very smart. Having said that, I agree with this:

milo.6942:

dodge creates a black hole of counterplay and forces the game to increase the total overall damage needed to kill players. it contributes nothing to the game and is poorly implemented.

I realized rather quickly that a cooldown could never work in a game with so much burst, spam and overall condition damage.

I think this would encourage more organized team play just like it does in almost every other game which wants to be competitive. What other PvP game do you know of where you can’t see your opponents resources? Even in fighting games you can see the enemy’s meter and knowing how much or how little they have can effect each person’s playstyle.

Having transparency in PvP does not dumb it down. It enhances team mechanics. It would stop your own team mates from mashing cooldowns when not necessary.

Even if it did “dumb it down” for other people, that is a -good- thing. This is a brainless change. Having more transparency in PvP is a good thing. Plus, this pvp scene could use all the new players it can muster. Such a quality of life change shouldn’t be discouraged.

If you’re worried you’ll lose any of your elitism from counting 1, 2 when people dodge, you aren’t.

Don’t blow your entire rotation when you first see your enemy, or immobilize them first. The combat in this game is already too fast as it is in many cases, we don’t need an actual visual trigger to tell people to FIRE EVERYTHING.

Swagg.9236:

Don’t blow your entire rotation when you first see your enemy, or immobilize them first. The combat in this game is already too fast as it is in many cases, we don’t need an actual visual trigger to tell people to FIRE EVERYTHING.

you are not considering the situation thoroughly. if you know your enemy can see your endurance, then you will be more careful with the dodges, and your enemy will want to wait until you have no adren to use a big move. It will slow combat down, not make it faster. Sure it will cause moments where you scream in ts to target that guy because he has no dodges left, but that is how it should be: slower pace and waiting for enemy to make mistake, then slam them in a frenzy.

Dumbing it down means that it’s majorly hurting depth.

There is very little depth in evade counting, only experience.
Evade counting is just something you pick up by playing the game for so long, getting down a timer of roughly 5->10s and knowing about vigor…
Can you choose when and how to counterplay endurance regen…
No.

There is no depth in this.
Only complication.

GW2 is already loaded, like kittening god-dang loaded with things that give complications along with little if any depth.
More complications (like this), to begin with, aren’t good, they are best kept at a minimum… and it’s not in GW2…

Swagg.9236:

Don’t blow your entire rotation when you first see your enemy, or immobilize them first. The combat in this game is already too fast as it is in many cases, we don’t need an actual visual trigger to tell people to FIRE EVERYTHING.

The only change is a ‘visual trigger’.
Anyone who has played the game for a few months and is decently aware, knows exactly how fast endurance regens so can pretty much assuredly tell when someone is low->out.

The only difference is complication.
No depth is involved.
At all.

milo.6942:

use a big move.

There aren’t many genuinely big moves left in this game. There is a lot of metagame damage tied to unavoidable passive abilities or instant/near-instant-activation abilities that ramp rotation speed up into a quick blur. Warrior (except for longbow), staff elementalist and maybe mesmer sword main-hand are the only truest exceptions to this rule. Mystery and dodge-counting slows combat down enough already.

This game doesn’t need a visual enemy endurance bar, it needs longer cast-times and/or delay periods for a lot of skills and passives.

garethh.3518:

The only change is a ‘visual trigger’.
Anyone who has played the game for a few months and is decently aware, knows exactly how fast endurance regens so can pretty much assuredly tell when someone is low->out.

The only difference is complication.
No depth is involved.
At all.

No depth is truly involved, no, but that type of attitude does nothing but encourage the absurdly fast-paced metagame that we see right now. The current metagame is nothing but spamming skills as fast as possible and the only thing that is really countering that is the mystery of an enemy’s defensive capabilities. Dodges are heavily factored into that. By removing that, you’re simply encouraging more spammy metagame instead of a thoughtful use of skills.

Absolutely no.
Message Body length must at least be 15.