Guild Wars 2

Felxm.8063:

KarlaGrey.5903:

I made the thread on this trait months ago in the necro forum sections.
My main issue isn’t the trait’s effect per say (although it is impossible to finish an engi with that trait when their opponent is roughly at the same amount of hp remaining and has negigable sources of raw damage), if they could bring , but the fact it has no ICD. There isn’t a single necro trait without an ICD, even when the skill description doesn’t state one, and I’m certain the same applies to most other classess’ traits, so why making an immunity trait be exception to this rule of thumb.

It also brings me back to the question posed in my own thread: Why is the raw damage of a condition-inflicting skill being ignored?

So again basically you play a necro and have been facerolling people after patch. But suddenly you find out that you can’t do that to all classes because theres one trait of one class that counters you when they go below 1/4 of their total HP. So in order to achieve your facerolling stomping fun this has to be nerfed, right?

I do play Necro. I also play Warrior and Guardian and Thief and Mesmer and Ranger and a bit of Ele but not too much…. Have you seen my youtube channel? Because I do have one; http://www.youtube.com/user/Ceimash

But yea, I made a Necro build and I definitely wasn’t facerolling people. At most I was giving people a good fight. And it’s actually a crit build as well so no major use of conditions other than to boost damage. So yea, the condi immunity wouldn’t affect me all that much in that build. Unless I was fighting a bunker Engie then in that case the condi immunity would be painful.

Actually the trait that gives engies protection and the other trait that makes them take 20% less damage when knocked down is actually what probably affects my Necro build more so than condi immunity anyway.

Felxm.8063:

especially given how the engineer’s tradition of being a ragball himself.

Now now, we all know necros have been holding that title ever since launch.

Felxm.8063:

Now, let me ask you, this thread is about you whine engineers or about engineers whine necros?

English isn’t your forte, is it.
Anyhow, I am somewhat glad to see at least some are ready to admit the trait can easily be on the OP side in certain situations.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Felxm.8063:

especially given how the engineer’s tradition of being a ragball himself.

Now now, we all know necros have been holding that title ever since launch.

Felxm.8063:

Now, let me ask you, this thread is about you whine engineers or about engineers whine necros?

English isn’t your forte, is it.
Anyhow, I am somewhat glad to see at least some are ready to admit the trait can easily be on the OP side in certain situations.

Since when does my English make you cry so hard? Besides, in any situation starting to complain the language skill of other people is clearly the sign of ignorance, childish, and a lack of intelligence.

Maybe its time for you to l2p your necro instead of whining on the forum about a single trait. Also you have mentioned in one of your posts:
Obviously nothing was done about it, but at least the newest necro spec can finish off such crap with dagger/staff auto, and DS 1.

So, as you have stated, Automated Response is not OP. Perhaps… you know… l2p?

I am also somewhat glad to see at least some have already admitted that their whole class is OP and they cannot stand that a trait which counters them in certain situations, so they have to come to the forum to whine.

If you think about it, many of the traits or skills that grant you immunity to one thing or the other only last for a few seconds. Endure pain at 25% health, Elixir S at 25% health, Stealth at 25% health, Arcane shield at 25% health, Armour of Earth at 50% health… It’s just weird that this one lasts for more than a few seconds.

I agree that there should be a counter to the current condition meta but to be perfectly honest, I don’t think this trait should be the end all be all answer for the Engi.

Dirame you even read what other ppl write here?

IT MAKES ENGI NOT IMUN it reduce the duration by 100%

so for you – everything you throw on the engi makes still dmg and ALL conditions have their first tick

now relax and stop your hate

Felxm.8063:

Since when does my English make you cry so hard?

Your cries are hard to understand when worded in such an illiterate manner, which is why I cannot even respond to them.

Felxm.8063:

Maybe its time for you to l2p your necro instead of whining on the forum about a single trait. Also you have mentioned in one of your posts:
Obviously nothing was done about it, but at least the newest necro spec can finish off such crap with dagger/staff auto, and DS 1.

So, as you have stated, Automated Response is not OP. Perhaps… you know… l2p?

I’d throw that right back at you, but you dont need to l2p, you just need to roll that trait.

The thing with that setup is that it’s super glassy and full-out offensive. I prefer running something more balanced, but apparently you fail to note that not everyone wants to roll the fotm.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Felxm.8063:

Since when does my English make you cry so hard?

Your cries are hard to understand when worded in such an illiterate manner, which is why I cannot even respond to them.

Felxm.8063:

Maybe its time for you to l2p your necro instead of whining on the forum about a single trait. Also you have mentioned in one of your posts:
Obviously nothing was done about it, but at least the newest necro spec can finish off such crap with dagger/staff auto, and DS 1.

So, as you have stated, Automated Response is not OP. Perhaps… you know… l2p?

I’d throw that right back at you, but you dont need to l2p, you just need to roll that trait.

The thing with that setup is that it’s super glassy and full-out offensive. I prefer running something more balanced, but apparently you fail to note that not everyone wants to roll the fotm.

Maybe i want to run soldiers amulet dual sword warrior with mace/axe? With banners?

But necro kill me every time!

KarlaGrey.5903:

Felxm.8063:

Since when does my English make you cry so hard?

Your cries are hard to understand when worded in such an illiterate manner, which is why I cannot even respond to them.

Felxm.8063:

Maybe its time for you to l2p your necro instead of whining on the forum about a single trait. Also you have mentioned in one of your posts:
Obviously nothing was done about it, but at least the newest necro spec can finish off such crap with dagger/staff auto, and DS 1.

So, as you have stated, Automated Response is not OP. Perhaps… you know… l2p?

I’d throw that right back at you, but you dont need to l2p, you just need to roll that trait.

The thing with that setup is that it’s super glassy and full-out offensive. I prefer running something more balanced, but apparently you fail to note that not everyone wants to roll the fotm.

You started to claim that something is overpowered and should be nerfed.
I think everyone pretty much agree that you are guy who cries for a nerf in this thread. You have nothing else to say except “I can speak better English than you”, which is clearly the sign of a lack of intelligence. You started to attack me by complaining about my English, it is even more clear that you cannot even make conversation in a polite manner, as soon as you run out of points to defend your silly complain, you start to drag excuses out of the topic.

Engineers are not even close to fotm and everyone knows that necromancers are the fotm atm. So pretty obvious that it is you who fail to understand the meaning of improvement. You play a class which got dramatically buffed, yet you have to come to cry for a nerf on the forum. Let me make it clear again, you started to cry for a nerf, not me. So stop crying for nerf and l2p.

Yeh this trait is ridiculously bad design. Good design = fun for person to play with and against. Making somebody immune to certain builds is NOT fun at all. It is super lame. What next – a new 30 point trait which reads “Under 25% health you take no damage from mesmers”. lol. Ridiculous.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Yeh this trait is ridiculously bad design. Good design = fun for person to play with and against. Making somebody immune to certain builds is NOT fun at all. It is super lame. What next – a new 30 point trait which reads “Under 25% health you take no damage from mesmers”. lol. Ridiculous.

Unfun mechanics to protect players from other unfun mechanics.

Stability ruins control builds. Let’s remove it.

redslion.9675:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Yeh this trait is ridiculously bad design. Good design = fun for person to play with and against. Making somebody immune to certain builds is NOT fun at all. It is super lame. What next – a new 30 point trait which reads “Under 25% health you take no damage from mesmers”. lol. Ridiculous.

Unfun mechanics to protect players from other unfun mechanics.

^ It is not fun when you are feared over and over (necros can chain it pretty well) this is prolly one of the only builds that directly counters the way the new necro builds/FOTM players are operating there fore it is the last thing that needs nerfed

It’s fine as it is since there is tons of direct damage you can use to kill him – while he is <25% health. If this got removed we’d need to also remove stealth completely because the thief can just stealth and run away not taking any damage – to heal fully.

jportell.2197:

^ It is not fun when you are feared over and over (necros can chain it pretty well) this is prolly one of the only builds that directly counters the way the new necro builds/FOTM players are operating there fore it is the last thing that needs nerfed

Obviously that’s the point – they just want to be able to faceroll anyone else.

Manuhell.2759:

Stability ruins control builds. Let’s remove it.

Stability only lasts for a few seconds, so a smart player will either wait it out or use other forms of CC like immob, cripple, chill, blind. Or some classes could even remove stability….

On the other hand, Automated Response LASTS FOREVER as long as you remain at 25% health. There’s no waiting it out, just hoping that you brought a backstab thief to help out.

jportell.2197:

redslion.9675:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Yeh this trait is ridiculously bad design. Good design = fun for person to play with and against. Making somebody immune to certain builds is NOT fun at all. It is super lame. What next – a new 30 point trait which reads “Under 25% health you take no damage from mesmers”. lol. Ridiculous.

Unfun mechanics to protect players from other unfun mechanics.

^ It is not fun when you are feared over and over (necros can chain it pretty well) this is prolly one of the only builds that directly counters the way the new necro builds/FOTM players are operating there fore it is the last thing that needs nerfed

No one is asking for the trait to be removed. I personally am asking for it to be toned down. Trust me, 5 seconds is enough time for an engie to turn a fight around. We don’t need Automated Response to last forever.

Seriously though, if anyone can come up with a good reason why Automated Response should remain the way it is other than “Necros are OP”, I’ll be all ears.

Dirame.8521:

Manuhell.2759:

Stability ruins control builds. Let’s remove it.

Stability only lasts for a few seconds, so a smart player will either wait it out or use other forms of CC like immob, cripple, chill, blind. Or some classes could even remove stability….

A smart player will not use stability at random as well, though. And while it is up, those skills are useless as well. Also, it doesn’t require you to be near death.

On the other hand, Automated Response LASTS FOREVER as long as you remain at 25% health. There’s no waiting it out, just hoping that you brought a backstab thief to help out.

And 25% hp are very few hp. Even with runes for vit/toughness, traits for vit/toughness and soldier equipment (cause a similar build will also need toughness to resist with such hit points) you have less than 7k. And guess what, he can’t heal until the last moment if he wants to stay alive – going above the 24% hp means certain death, since you are free to condition burst him if he does so.
So, basically, he must spec into vitality just to use a tiny portion of that hp, while doing negligible damage and being extremely vulnerable to power builds.

Oh, sure, it works like a charm versus heavily specced condition builds. That’s exactly the point.

Dirame.8521:

jportell.2197:

redslion.9675:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Yeh this trait is ridiculously bad design. Good design = fun for person to play with and against. Making somebody immune to certain builds is NOT fun at all. It is super lame. What next – a new 30 point trait which reads “Under 25% health you take no damage from mesmers”. lol. Ridiculous.

Unfun mechanics to protect players from other unfun mechanics.

^ It is not fun when you are feared over and over (necros can chain it pretty well) this is prolly one of the only builds that directly counters the way the new necro builds/FOTM players are operating there fore it is the last thing that needs nerfed

No one is asking for the trait to be removed. I personally am asking for it to be toned down. Trust me, 5 seconds is enough time for an engie to turn a fight around. We don’t need Automated Response to last forever.

Seriously though, if anyone can come up with a good reason why Automated Response should remain the way it is other than “Necros are OP”, I’ll be all ears.

Only engies I saw being able to reach that trait were bunkers. No, they won’t change the fight.

And stop balancing the game around 1v1: if you are actively trying to stand at 25% health, either you’ll be putting low pressure (soldier’s amulet) or you’ll be asking to be killed. There must be one guy with a power build somewhere.

And, considering you’ll probably have condi duration bonuses, you’ll be able to land conditions on them.

I have tested it, Condi duration does not matter at all if they are able to cleanse as soon as they get to 25% health. Nothing goes through even if you max out your duration.

And you’re right, I shouldn’t be balancing the game around a 1v1 scenario but this is a game where lots of 1v1 does occur and this trait is a big trump card in that scenario.

The trait is not a “this is my last chance to turn the fight around” type of trait it’s more of a “this is the point where I survive regardless of whether this guy is better than me” type of trait.

Dirame.8521:

I have tested it, Condi duration does not matter at all if they are able to cleanse as soon as they get to 25% health. Nothing goes through even if you max out your duration.

The trait itself doesn’t cleanse anything. It works only on conditions applied after the engineer’s hp are below that treshhold. Albeit, there is another minor trait with an 8% chance to convert a condition to a boon. But usually he will need to use some condition removal utility.

Dirame.8521:

And you’re right, I shouldn’t be balancing the game around a 1v1 scenario but this is a game where lots of 1v1 does occur and this trait is a big trump card in that scenario.

The trait is not a “this is my last chance to turn the fight around” type of trait it’s more of a “this is the point where I survive regardless of whether this guy is better than me” type of trait.

Also, “this is the point where if any build with some power comes around, i’m screwed”.

Manuhell.2759:

Dirame.8521:

I have tested it, Condi duration does not matter at all if they are able to cleanse as soon as they get to 25% health. Nothing goes through even if you max out your duration.

The trait itself doesn’t cleanse anything. It works only on conditions applied after the engineer’s hp are below that treshhold. Albeit, there is another minor trait with an 8% chance to convert a condition to a boon. But usually he will need to use some condition removal utility.

I didn’t mean that the trait itself did the cleansing, I meant the Engineer would cleanse at 25% health and then laugh his way to the bank.

Manuhell.2759:

Dirame.8521:

And you’re right, I shouldn’t be balancing the game around a 1v1 scenario but this is a game where lots of 1v1 does occur and this trait is a big trump card in that scenario.

The trait is not a “this is my last chance to turn the fight around” type of trait it’s more of a “this is the point where I survive regardless of whether this guy is better than me” type of trait.

Also, “this is the point where if any build with some power comes around, i’m screwed”.

…..Maybe it’s just the way I play that makes it feel OP…

How can anyone say that a player who has been playing a Necro for a long time just wants to “faceroll” everyone??? Are you all slow?

Necros were BAD, like REALLY REALLY BAD and even if they are OP now, deal with it.
Longtime Necro players learned how to deal with all the nonsense every other class had in addition to some truly horrible bugs.

Excuse me… Don’t you have flesh golem? Let him finish the foolish engi off.

Dirame.8521:

jportell.2197:

redslion.9675:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Yeh this trait is ridiculously bad design. Good design = fun for person to play with and against. Making somebody immune to certain builds is NOT fun at all. It is super lame. What next – a new 30 point trait which reads “Under 25% health you take no damage from mesmers”. lol. Ridiculous.

Unfun mechanics to protect players from other unfun mechanics.

^ It is not fun when you are feared over and over (necros can chain it pretty well) this is prolly one of the only builds that directly counters the way the new necro builds/FOTM players are operating there fore it is the last thing that needs nerfed

No one is asking for the trait to be removed. I personally am asking for it to be toned down. Trust me, 5 seconds is enough time for an engie to turn a fight around. We don’t need Automated Response to last forever.

Seriously though, if anyone can come up with a good reason why Automated Response should remain the way it is other than “Necros are OP”, I’ll be all ears.

The fact that no-one complained about it until necros became OP and so far the only ones that seem to be griping about it are necros…. Seems like a pretty good reason to me.

I don’t believe Necros were or are the instigators of the use of this trait. To honest the reason why I started using this trait is because I had an extra 10 trait points to spare after Juggernaut got swapped with Napalm Specialist and I thought… hey.. why not.

All of a sudden, I feel awesome and then I fight someone who was also using the trait and I notice how it probably wasn’t my amazingly awesome skill level that kept me alive.

All I gotta say is if you mess up with this trait your dead. Being bunker engy I can have protection up and regen up easily with this trait. Regen is pretty much automatic and protection all I do is cure myself of a condition you previously put on me with toss the healing elixir, or if I’m really close to dying all I do is heal and have another chance at it. Also I notice that protection comes up more than the other ones from that healing elixir. Also I use elixir C to convert all the previous conditions into boons so I have even more boons than protection and regen, which are pretty useless in a way (I don’t think I’ve ever gotten stability or some other useful bunker boon) except for vigor because I’m not here to dps. But the part where you cant mess up at is knockbacks, as long as you keep knockbacking people you let regen bring you back up to around 20-25% from all the punishment your getting below 25%. Pretty much knockbacks and dodge is only time saving thing you have under 25% while regen keeps healing you a nice amount to stay underneath that.

But it sure aint OP when you got a thief on you or a warrior, also a ranger isn’t bad in this either perhaps on of the best because they can get lucky a lot and avoid knockbacks. Pretty much only thing that will land 100% is the mine field. This is when shield 5 comes into play to stun him and knockback.

Also this trait has been around for awhile, its just nobody choses to play bunker engy so you hardly see this kind of stuff, nothing got buffed, if anything elixir C lost its stun break, and that was very nice especially when your trying to avoid damage at under 25%.

uberkingkong.8041:

All I gotta say is if you mess up with this trait your dead. Being bunker engy I can have protection up and regen up easily with this trait. Regen is pretty much automatic and protection all I do is cure myself of a condition you previously put on me with toss the healing elixir, or if I’m really close to dying all I do is heal and have another chance at it. Also I notice that protection comes up more than the other ones from that healing elixir. Also I use elixir C to convert all the previous conditions into boons so I have even more boons than protection and regen, which are pretty useless in a way (I don’t think I’ve ever gotten stability or some other useful bunker boon) except for vigor because I’m not here to dps. But the part where you cant mess up at is knockbacks, as long as you keep knockbacking people you let regen bring you back up to around 20-25% from all the punishment your getting below 25%. Pretty much knockbacks and dodge is only time saving thing you have under 25% while regen keeps healing you a nice amount to stay underneath that.

But it sure aint OP when you got a thief on you or a warrior, also a ranger isn’t bad in this either perhaps on of the best because they can get lucky a lot and avoid knockbacks. Pretty much only thing that will land 100% is the mine field. This is when shield 5 comes into play to stun him and knockback.

Also this trait has been around for awhile, its just nobody choses to play bunker engy so you hardly see this kind of stuff, nothing got buffed, if anything elixir C lost its stun break, and that was very nice especially when your trying to avoid damage at under 25%.

Well, I play the “sent to hell to never come back” type of bunker, harassing enemy homepoint. So instead of knockbacks I use blocks (all work against may opponents, even while I am blinded/they have stabilty) but that’s the idea.XD

redslion.9675:

uberkingkong.8041:

All I gotta say is if you mess up with this trait your dead. Being bunker engy I can have protection up and regen up easily with this trait. Regen is pretty much automatic and protection all I do is cure myself of a condition you previously put on me with toss the healing elixir, or if I’m really close to dying all I do is heal and have another chance at it. Also I notice that protection comes up more than the other ones from that healing elixir. Also I use elixir C to convert all the previous conditions into boons so I have even more boons than protection and regen, which are pretty useless in a way (I don’t think I’ve ever gotten stability or some other useful bunker boon) except for vigor because I’m not here to dps. But the part where you cant mess up at is knockbacks, as long as you keep knockbacking people you let regen bring you back up to around 20-25% from all the punishment your getting below 25%. Pretty much knockbacks and dodge is only time saving thing you have under 25% while regen keeps healing you a nice amount to stay underneath that.

But it sure aint OP when you got a thief on you or a warrior, also a ranger isn’t bad in this either perhaps on of the best because they can get lucky a lot and avoid knockbacks. Pretty much only thing that will land 100% is the mine field. This is when shield 5 comes into play to stun him and knockback.

Also this trait has been around for awhile, its just nobody choses to play bunker engy so you hardly see this kind of stuff, nothing got buffed, if anything elixir C lost its stun break, and that was very nice especially when your trying to avoid damage at under 25%.

Well, I play the “sent to hell to never come back” type of bunker, harassing enemy homepoint. So instead of knockbacks I use blocks (all work against may opponents, even while I am blinded/they have stabilty) but that’s the idea.XD

Well engineer has a lot of blocks as well, but kinda pointless to do that when they have the cap.

Surely the fact that only 1% of the engineer pvp community runs this trait says all we need to know about its apparent OP’ness.

uberkingkong.8041:

redslion.9675:

uberkingkong.8041:

All I gotta say is if you mess up with this trait your dead. Being bunker engy I can have protection up and regen up easily with this trait. Regen is pretty much automatic and protection all I do is cure myself of a condition you previously put on me with toss the healing elixir, or if I’m really close to dying all I do is heal and have another chance at it. Also I notice that protection comes up more than the other ones from that healing elixir. Also I use elixir C to convert all the previous conditions into boons so I have even more boons than protection and regen, which are pretty useless in a way (I don’t think I’ve ever gotten stability or some other useful bunker boon) except for vigor because I’m not here to dps. But the part where you cant mess up at is knockbacks, as long as you keep knockbacking people you let regen bring you back up to around 20-25% from all the punishment your getting below 25%. Pretty much knockbacks and dodge is only time saving thing you have under 25% while regen keeps healing you a nice amount to stay underneath that.

But it sure aint OP when you got a thief on you or a warrior, also a ranger isn’t bad in this either perhaps on of the best because they can get lucky a lot and avoid knockbacks. Pretty much only thing that will land 100% is the mine field. This is when shield 5 comes into play to stun him and knockback.

Also this trait has been around for awhile, its just nobody choses to play bunker engy so you hardly see this kind of stuff, nothing got buffed, if anything elixir C lost its stun break, and that was very nice especially when your trying to avoid damage at under 25%.

Well, I play the “sent to hell to never come back” type of bunker, harassing enemy homepoint. So instead of knockbacks I use blocks (all work against may opponents, even while I am blinded/they have stabilty) but that’s the idea.XD

Well engineer has a lot of blocks as well, but kinda pointless to do that when they have the cap.

Not while you are humped by 2 spiking glass cannon eager to send you to hell.XD

Neare.9703:

Surely the fact that only 1% of the engineer pvp community runs this trait says all we need to know about its apparent OP’ness.

Well its grandmaster trait and the other trait being HGH. With everyone going HGH hardly anyone uses it.

The trait is not op.
It is very good but definitely not op.

This community really needs to stop calling anything and everything that counters their class/build op.

if your condition duration is greater than 100%, your conditions will still hit the engi with the change to this trait.

This trait is hilariously broken. It’s actually terrible in team fights, but against a single condition-built character it is a total counter.

My suggestion: Make it cleanse one condition every five seconds, starting at 50 percent health.

nakoda.4213:

if your condition duration is greater than 100%, your conditions will still hit the engi with the change to this trait.

I just tested it, and this is wrong. It just says “immune” to each condition I’m trying to apply.

Lopez.7369:

nakoda.4213:

if your condition duration is greater than 100%, your conditions will still hit the engi with the change to this trait.

I just tested it, and this is wrong. It just says “immune” to each condition I’m trying to apply.

I keep telling him but he doesn’t want to listen.

I run this trait but never got to test it in a 1v1 situation against condition builds until today. I figured if I ever get low on health, the trait will save me everytime, but necro got me on first and third duel. From experience its not an auto youcantkillmenow trait, by the time my conditions already build on me stop ticking im left at around 5-10% health where even a few autoattacks can drop me. This trait shines best if you can fight at less than 25% health without dying but that is tougher than it sounds.

Ostricheggs.3742:

it’s very easy to deal with. Just don’t fight the engi with autoimmune response alone OR attempt to get his condi clears on CD and burst him before he clears them off at under 25%.

It’s a grandmaster trait for cryin out loud that only applies in 1v1s against certain classes/specs and doesn’t immediately make a fight “I win”.

Fair. Let’s switch and you play the necro my engineer will be stomping on.

Penguin.5197:

I run this trait but never got to test it in a 1v1 situation against condition builds until today. I figured if I ever get low on health, the trait will save me everytime, but necro got me on first and third duel. From experience its not an auto youcantkillmenow trait, by the time my conditions already build on me stop ticking im left at around 5-10% health where even a few autoattacks can drop me. This trait shines best if you can fight at less than 25% health without dying but that is tougher than it sounds.

This trait is used by bunker engineers, and pretty much makes you the only bunker that can shrug off condition specs.

In WvW an engineer with toolkit, bombkit, and either an elixir or elixir gun with pistol/shield is one of the most potent roamers around.

jportell.2197:

Dirame.8521:

jportell.2197:

redslion.9675:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Yeh this trait is ridiculously bad design. Good design = fun for person to play with and against. Making somebody immune to certain builds is NOT fun at all. It is super lame. What next – a new 30 point trait which reads “Under 25% health you take no damage from mesmers”. lol. Ridiculous.

Unfun mechanics to protect players from other unfun mechanics.

^ It is not fun when you are feared over and over (necros can chain it pretty well) this is prolly one of the only builds that directly counters the way the new necro builds/FOTM players are operating there fore it is the last thing that needs nerfed

No one is asking for the trait to be removed. I personally am asking for it to be toned down. Trust me, 5 seconds is enough time for an engie to turn a fight around. We don’t need Automated Response to last forever.

Seriously though, if anyone can come up with a good reason why Automated Response should remain the way it is other than “Necros are OP”, I’ll be all ears.

The fact that no-one complained about it until necros became OP and so far the only ones that seem to be griping about it are necros…. Seems like a pretty good reason to me.

I created a thread on it months ago.

jportell.2197:

redslion.9675:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Yeh this trait is ridiculously bad design. Good design = fun for person to play with and against. Making somebody immune to certain builds is NOT fun at all. It is super lame. What next – a new 30 point trait which reads “Under 25% health you take no damage from mesmers”. lol. Ridiculous.

Unfun mechanics to protect players from other unfun mechanics.

^ It is not fun when you are feared over and over (necros can chain it pretty well) this is prolly one of the only builds that directly counters the way the new necro builds/FOTM players are operating there fore it is the last thing that needs nerfed

You know, if you hear this from someone who staunchly is against a certain engineer build, you kinda take a step back and revisit your argument, as an engineer traiting for that setup hits like a wet noodle, even if you can actually might stack him.

Rangers have been complaining about it long before necros, and this trait affects all condi builds, not just necros.

And it doesn’t matter that necros became OP because they still suck in 1v1 and an engineer would be stomping necros with or without the recent changes.

Felxm.8063:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Felxm.8063:

Since when does my English make you cry so hard?

Your cries are hard to understand when worded in such an illiterate manner, which is why I cannot even respond to them.

Felxm.8063:

Maybe its time for you to l2p your necro instead of whining on the forum about a single trait. Also you have mentioned in one of your posts:
Obviously nothing was done about it, but at least the newest necro spec can finish off such crap with dagger/staff auto, and DS 1.

So, as you have stated, Automated Response is not OP. Perhaps… you know… l2p?

I’d throw that right back at you, but you dont need to l2p, you just need to roll that trait.

The thing with that setup is that it’s super glassy and full-out offensive. I prefer running something more balanced, but apparently you fail to note that not everyone wants to roll the fotm.

You started to claim that something is overpowered and should be nerfed.
I think everyone pretty much agree that you are guy who cries for a nerf in this thread. You have nothing else to say except “I can speak better English than you”, which is clearly the sign of a lack of intelligence. You started to attack me by complaining about my English, it is even more clear that you cannot even make conversation in a polite manner, as soon as you run out of points to defend your silly complain, you start to drag excuses out of the topic.

Engineers are not even close to fotm and everyone knows that necromancers are the fotm atm. So pretty obvious that it is you who fail to understand the meaning of improvement. You play a class which got dramatically buffed, yet you have to come to cry for a nerf on the forum. Let me make it clear again, you started to cry for a nerf, not me. So stop crying for nerf and l2p.

The main issue isn’t only that it can be OP, but also that it is a terrible skill design, because it’s a hard counter to a particular build. You should always promote versatility and soft counters that don’t make a trait completely useless in certain situations, and OP in others.

If you cannot fathom that, because you’re so focused on your whine about necros, then trying to lead any kind of discussion with you is an effort wasted.

Besides, I’ve started playing the class long before it got the few extra buffs, so you can take your fotm cries elsewhere, and then you could, for a change, actually start reading (and understanding) my posts, or should I translate them into your native language?

Yeah first time I went against a player from Anet was a tpvp match and he was an eng running this skill.

It was such a hard counter to my necro, zero hope of winning. Felt broken, everyone should at least have a punchers chance in fights. Yes i seen it before running into the Anet dude however I found it cheesy as kitten he was exploiting it.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Felxm.8063:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Felxm.8063:

Since when does my English make you cry so hard?

Your cries are hard to understand when worded in such an illiterate manner, which is why I cannot even respond to them.

Felxm.8063:

Maybe its time for you to l2p your necro instead of whining on the forum about a single trait. Also you have mentioned in one of your posts:
Obviously nothing was done about it, but at least the newest necro spec can finish off such crap with dagger/staff auto, and DS 1.

So, as you have stated, Automated Response is not OP. Perhaps… you know… l2p?

I’d throw that right back at you, but you dont need to l2p, you just need to roll that trait.

The thing with that setup is that it’s super glassy and full-out offensive. I prefer running something more balanced, but apparently you fail to note that not everyone wants to roll the fotm.

You started to claim that something is overpowered and should be nerfed.
I think everyone pretty much agree that you are guy who cries for a nerf in this thread. You have nothing else to say except “I can speak better English than you”, which is clearly the sign of a lack of intelligence. You started to attack me by complaining about my English, it is even more clear that you cannot even make conversation in a polite manner, as soon as you run out of points to defend your silly complain, you start to drag excuses out of the topic.

Engineers are not even close to fotm and everyone knows that necromancers are the fotm atm. So pretty obvious that it is you who fail to understand the meaning of improvement. You play a class which got dramatically buffed, yet you have to come to cry for a nerf on the forum. Let me make it clear again, you started to cry for a nerf, not me. So stop crying for nerf and l2p.

The main issue isn’t only that it can be OP, but also that it is a terrible skill design, because it’s a hard counter to a particular build. You should always promote versatility and soft counters that don’t make a trait completely useless in certain situations, and OP in others.

If you cannot fathom that, because you’re so focused on your whine about necros, then trying to lead any kind of discussion with you is an effort wasted.

Besides, I’ve started playing the class long before it got the few extra buffs, so you can take your fotm cries elsewhere, and then you could, for a change, actually start reading (and understanding) my posts, or should I translate them into your native language?

Again, let me state it once more for you, since it seems like you clearly do not understand what you are doing here. The title of this thread is “Automated Response is Overpowered”, it is about YOU whine and cry and here about engineers, not I here complain about necros. Again, you call this trait fotm, I mean… seriously… Do you even acknowledge that this trait has been NERFED after this patch? It was immune to conditions when you reach 1/4 your HP.

It is you who cannot read, you don’t even understand the issue here, you simply just come here to complain about one trait that may counter necromancers when they reach 25% of their HP bar. You don’t realize the whole situation about the two professions in this conversation. Despite necros being in very strong pvp position atm, you still come here to cry a river for nerf, and yes let me state it again, it was you who started to cry here, and the whole thread of this is about some silly necromancers who cannot play their class even after huge buff, but come to the forum and cry. Dude, stop crying, and l2p your class. For the whole time I am just trying to tell you that stop complaining and play, but yet you just won’t listen. If you think someone who doesn’t receive your opinion as his/her own perspective is because of they lack of language skill, perhaps you should go back to school and take some human behavior and communication skill courses?

Despite alot people are complaining about necromancers, I don’t yet feel they are OP. But based on your theory above, lets make a similar theory, shall we?

The main issue isn’t only that necromancers can be OP, but also that it is a terrible class design, because it’s a hard counter to almost all builds&classes atm. You should always promote versatility and soft counters that don’t make almost all classes completely useless in most situations.
Feel happy now? Got the theory? Or shall I translate it into your mother tongue?

I play a ranger myself and I have to say that this trait seems somehow OP at certain situations, but this trait is not like what most people think. What I mean is, for example, if you put conditions before the engineer reaches 25% HP, lets say, at 26%. Then those conditions which tick as long as they should, only conditions put after they reach their 25% of their HP will have their duration reduced.

My husband plays engineer in tpvp, he told me this trait could be really useless versus skilled players(both before patch and after, before it makes you immune to conditions after 25% HP), because skilled players will make sure they lay their conditions burst somewhere around 30% of your total HP, so which means those conditions will tick in anyway… which makes this trait totally useless, and you can do it now this way as well, which is why I don’t see the point of complaining about this trait.

@Felxm: don’t be too aggressive toward others, they have their points as well and they have their rights to complain about. I know nobody wants to get their class nerfed, especially when someone pretends to play the class.

@KarlaGrey: I think, you should really not to complain about his English, English may not be his/her native language, but still you should stay on topic and not to attack/bring issues out of someone personally, because these things against the Code of Conduct of Anet. Besides, it seems like he can write and understand English fairly well, at least in my opinion.

So guys, stay on topic and talk the issue ^^

Felxm.8063:

You started to claim that something is overpowered and should be nerfed.

Was it I who started claiming the trait is OP? Not in this thread, no.
Am I the OP? No.
But do I agree with the OP? Yes.

Felxm.8063:

I think everyone pretty much agree that you are guy who cries for a nerf in this thread. You have nothing else to say except “I can speak better English than you”, which is clearly the sign of a lack of intelligence. You started to attack me by complaining about my English, it is even more clear that you cannot even make conversation in a polite manner, as soon as you run out of points to defend your silly complain, you start to drag excuses out of the topic.

I have nothing to say but criticize your Engrish?
Refer to page 1 for all the things I had to say. I know you skipped them all, but it’s time you read back now.
The only part where your rage becomes uncomprehensible is the post where you started the whineful accusations, the purpose of which I still don’t quite understand…nor am I sure if I completely understand their meaning, because they were put in such a terrible manner.

Felxm.8063:

Engineers are not even close to fotm and everyone knows that necromancers are the fotm atm. So pretty obvious that it is you who fail to understand the meaning of improvement. You play a class which got dramatically buffed, yet you have to come to cry for a nerf on the forum. Let me make it clear again, you started to cry for a nerf, not me. So stop crying for nerf and l2p.

I fail to understand ‘the meaning of improvement’? Where did that come from? Because I deem an immunity trait broken and call for fixes as to make it more versatile in general, instead of keeping its function as a a hard counter to a particular build which isn’t even part of what you tend calling the fotm?

The OP started ‘crying’ for nerf, I simply agreed with his proposal/idea and listed my issues with the trait, and reasons why I think it is OP.
You, on the other hand, started crying how such a hard counter was deserving, mainly due to the ‘faceroll’ aspect necros have gained with the latest patch, while also adding how everyone complaining about the trait should gtfo and l2p.

As Dirame put it:

Dirame.8521:

Seriously though, if anyone can come up with a good reason why Automated Response should remain the way it is other than “Necros are OP”, I’ll be all ears.

Felxm.8063:

Again, let me state it once more for you, since it seems like you clearly do not understand what you are doing here. The title of this thread is “Automated Response is Overpowered”, it is about YOU whine and cry and here about engineers, not I here complain about necros. Again, you call this trait fotm, I mean… seriously… Do you even acknowledge that this trait has been NERFED after this patch? It was immune to conditions when you reach 1/4 your HP.

I offer a perspective of a conditionmancer who didn’t spec into power, but runs an old build with one minor adjustment. Ergo: not the fotm power build. Ergo: you may leave, if you will keep throwing the fotm strawmen at me.
Are you seriously suggesting I should jump on the bandwagon and roll 30 30 10 too, in order to work around the trait?

You, on the other hand, started defending the trait on the basis that ‘necros deserve it because they just faceroll and spam their kitten off’, and that’s the very definition of whining and throwing strawman arguments around for the sake of winning a discussion.

Felxm.8063:

It is you who cannot read, you don’t even understand the issue here, you simply just come here to complain about one trait that may counter necromancers when they reach 25% of their HP bar. You don’t realize the whole situation about the two professions in this conversation. Despite necros being in very strong pvp position atm, you still come here to cry a river for nerf, and yes let me state it again, it was you who started to cry here, and the whole thread of this is about some silly necromancers who cannot play their class even after huge buff, but come to the forum and cry. Dude, stop crying, and l2p your class. For the whole time I am just trying to tell you that stop complaining and play, but yet you just won’t listen. If you think someone who doesn’t receive your opinion as his/her own perspective is because of they lack of language skill, perhaps you should go back to school and take some human behavior and communication skill courses?

Seems that semantics are’t really your forte either.
Because you are only repeating yourself without adding anything to your old whine, here it is again:

Dirame.8521:

Seriously though, if anyone can come up with a good reason why Automated Response should remain the way it is other than “Necros are OP”, I’ll be all ears.

Felxm.8063:

The main issue isn’t only that necromancers can be OP, but also that it is a terrible class design, because it’s a hard counter to almost all builds&classes atm. You should always promote versatility and soft counters that don’t make almost all classes completely useless in most situations.
Feel happy now? Got the theory? Or shall I translate it into your mother tongue?

The necro was actually in a good spot, balance-wise (which is why it was overall rather subpar, and called for entire teams bulding around it, similar to the warrior).
Instead of promoting versatility, they chose to bring some aspects of the necro out of proportions, while neglecting the things that were needed to make the necro worthwhile without being babysit constantly by the rest of the team.
In a way though, that guild was achieved, because now the necro has a chance to kill other things before they can kill it.

And last but not least:

Dirame.8521:

Seriously though, if anyone can come up with a good reason why Automated Response should remain the way it is other than “Necros are OP”, I’ll be all ears.

Still waiting for a response to that.

Felxm.8063:

Again, let me state it once more for you, since it seems like you clearly do not understand what you are doing here. The title of this thread is “Automated Response is Overpowered”, it is about YOU whine and cry and here about engineers, not I here complain about necros. Again, you call this trait fotm, I mean… seriously… Do you even acknowledge that this trait has been NERFED after this patch? It was immune to conditions when you reach 1/4 your HP.

It is you who cannot read, you don’t even understand the issue here, you simply just come here to complain about one trait that may counter necromancers when they reach 25% of their HP bar. You don’t realize the whole situation about the two professions in this conversation. Despite necros being in very strong pvp position atm, you still come here to cry a river for nerf, and yes let me state it again, it was you who started to cry here, and the whole thread of this is about some silly necromancers who cannot play their class even after huge buff, but come to the forum and cry. Dude, stop crying, and l2p your class. For the whole time I am just trying to tell you that stop complaining and play, but yet you just won’t listen. If you think someone who doesn’t receive your opinion as his/her own perspective is because of they lack of language skill, perhaps you should go back to school and take some human behavior and communication skill courses?

Despite alot people are complaining about necromancers, I don’t yet feel they are OP. But based on your theory above, lets make a similar theory, shall we?

The main issue isn’t only that necromancers can be OP, but also that it is a terrible class design, because it’s a hard counter to almost all builds&classes atm. You should always promote versatility and soft counters that don’t make almost all classes completely useless in most situations.
Feel happy now? Got the theory? Or shall I translate it into your mother tongue?

I think you’re misunderstanding us. We don’t want the trait to be “nerfed” more just modified so that it functions way better than it used to. This is my first suggestion from the original post; “Cure two conditions and become immune to all conditions for 5 seconds (60s cooldown)”. The trait still remains a good counter against condi builds but it also allows the other player to say, “okay, I’ve got to put loads of cover condis before he gets to 25% health” or “I’ll just put some crappy condis on him to get him to 25% health and then wait him out” and you on the other hand can say, “25% health, cool. Time to turn this fight around” or “Time for me to escape since no one can immobilize me”. It becomes a window of opportunity rather than a seminar that sometimes doesn’t play out the way you want it to.

Let’s also take a look at the second suggestion; “Activate Cleansing Burst when you have more than 2 unique conditions on you. (Water field) (30s cooldown)”. This one would operate regardless of whether you are at 25% or not and is on a 30 second cooldown, and also produces a water field. As an engineer, water fields should be your bread and butter. With the amount of blast finishers we have, this would be an amazing trait. Let’s not forget that cleansing burst also has a 2.5k AoE heal and AoE cleanse (of course they could probably remove the heal just because it might be too OP but let’s assume Anet doesn’t) and this would probably make the Engie just as good a team fighter as the Ele is. And it would probably make the Engie even more of a counter to the current AoE condi/damage spam as well.

So yea, I feel you might have misunderstood me and my aim. I’m not here to nerf anything, I’m here to foster discussion for something better and more balanced.

And as we already said, those suggestions are awful. The first hasn’t even got a clear activation – and if you mean it activates at 25% hp, then is simply a terrible and weak trait.
The second one is a reduced version of an elementalist grandmaster trait, on triple the cooldown. Meh.

Manuhell.2759:

And as we already said, those suggestions are awful. The first hasn’t even got a clear activation – and if you mean it activates at 25% hp, then is simply a terrible and weak trait.
The second one is a reduced version of an elementalist grandmaster trait, on triple the cooldown. Meh.

How is it a terrible and weak trait?

And why would you want Cleansing burst every 10 seconds when the original is on a 15s cd?