Guild Wars 2

I hate that ANET keeps taking away what makes classes special. Everyone and their sister has stealth now.. Which devalues thief.

Now they hand MOA to engis…taking away our unique elite.

Correction: Moas – plural

It’s AoE

Lmao…Engineers have cele, they have rampage on elixir x, and now theyre getting aoe moas which is better than mesmers dodgeable interruptable moa….(unless they change that ofc)

I agree, even though I’m an engi. I don’t think it matches the build at all..

Its a transforming Elixir… it fits….

Alexander.9810:

Its a transforming Elixir… it fits….

Doesn’t matter if it fits or not, it’s stupidly broken. Like seriously, is this what this game will look like now? It seems like ANet wants people to stop playing the game.

Rip balance <3 Welcome our engi overlords.

And where are the people that said revenant will be op? He looks kitten up compared to some stuff showed in stream..

Scoobaniec.9561:

Rip balance <3 Welcome our engi overlords

I take it you haven’t been playing PvP. Engis have been OP for a long time and will continue to be.

@ ANET .. for bonus points: “the pledge” is the patter before a magic trick, “the prestige” is the actual trick if I recall accurately.

style.6173:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Rip balance <3 Welcome our engi overlords

I take it you haven’t been playing PvP. Engis have been OP for a long time and will continue to be.

freaking joke.. im off to play mkx

So in the end .. what someone can do..engi should be able to do it better
Makes sense

Kicast.1459:

So in the end .. what someone can do..engi should be able to do it better
Makes sense

Yes, it makes sense. I’m just wondering what type of engineer they are. Civil, electronic or something else.

it was a very short duration, seems more like an aoe daze then anything else, id be more worried about the mortar kit, has anyone ever bothered looking at the mortar skills? didnt think so, essentially get used to legacy decap mid.

Its a one second aoe transform.

ukuni.8745:

it was a very short duration, seems more like an aoe daze then anything else,

Exactly! Maybe they should change it to turning the characters into Quaggans or maybe Kittens. Something funny and different. Right now I’m guessing Moa’s was the placeholder used.

As if the moa elite skill wouldnt be terrible enough, the devs are trolls.

Missed the stream been reading up on it on dulfy. AOE Moa seems extremely OP. Regular one target Moa can be extremely deadly and if on a coordinated team or versus a good player its an automatic kill I can only imagine how OP this will be in coordination for example with a ranger (entangle) and AOE condi builds….. instant team wipe.

It seems like its a very short duration guys… a little much on the sky is falling rage

I understand the frustration; however, the argument of “taking away what makes classes special” based on one particular thing is not a good argument….

Mesmers were not special because of Turning people into moas, they were special because of their clones and phantoms and their ability to destroy them.

The concern about it being utilized with other classes immobilizes and dazes on the other hand is an interesting point that should be looked into and discussed a bit more.

Does the Moa also take more damage like the mesmer Moa? This can also factor into how OP the skill will be.

I hope everyone complaining about how OP Engi Moas are is aware that any Engineer packing this will be lacking Supply Crate. You know, the elite skill they currently have that does a longer AoE stun than this Moa effect and puts a bunch of turrets on the field on top of that…

@Wolfie Keeping the integrity and spirit of a class is certainly a valid argument. The Devs themselves used it repeatedly in the livestream,

Xiahou Mao.9701:

I hope everyone complaining about how OP Engi Moas are is aware that any Engineer packing this will be lacking Supply Crate. You know, the elite skill they currently have that does a longer AoE stun than this Moa effect and puts a bunch of turrets on the field on top of that…

True but Moa removes you from any form your in and removes all your minions if you play MM. Supply crate only stuns you.

Zoso.8279:

Xiahou Mao.9701:

I hope everyone complaining about how OP Engi Moas are is aware that any Engineer packing this will be lacking Supply Crate. You know, the elite skill they currently have that does a longer AoE stun than this Moa effect and puts a bunch of turrets on the field on top of that…

True but Moa removes you from any form your in and removes all your minions if you play MM. Supply crate only stuns you.

Well, supply crate cc’s you multiple times if you have the knockback on turrets (and most engis do). So it’s like aoe longer duration cc or multiple aoe cc + heal + damage. Such horrible elites, really.

Anet = bias. It is so clear which classes receive attention and what classes they laugh at. Gw2 has become a placeholder for me until another mmo comes out that lacks this juvenile bias. Terrible and unprofessional devs.

Laraley.7695:

Zoso.8279:

Xiahou Mao.9701:

I hope everyone complaining about how OP Engi Moas are is aware that any Engineer packing this will be lacking Supply Crate. You know, the elite skill they currently have that does a longer AoE stun than this Moa effect and puts a bunch of turrets on the field on top of that…

True but Moa removes you from any form your in and removes all your minions if you play MM. Supply crate only stuns you.

Well, supply crate cc’s you multiple times if you have the knockback on turrets (and most engis do). So it’s like aoe longer duration cc or multiple aoe cc + heal + damage. Such horrible elites, really.

Yeah but most elite forms have a stability with it so KB doesn’t effect them too much. I see this AOE Moe basically a kill switch for all elite forms ranger/war/necro which is what mesmer Moa is right now.

The form removal is something to consider, but remember, this F5 skill is going to be “Toss Elixir X”. If you’re in Lich form and going up against an Engineer who hasn’t tried to Supply Crate you yet, then you’ll have to keep an eye out for the visual cue of him throwing a vial at you. Dodge it, and now you’re set.

I don’t think any of the other Toss Elixir skills are things you’d want to throw at your opponent rather than your allies, so the tell will be there.

Wolfey.3407:

The concern about it being utilized with other classes immobilizes and dazes on the other hand is an interesting point that should be looked into and discussed a bit more.

It is also worth mentioning that it can completely hard counter any elite transform skill just like moa currently does, and hard counters MMs as well, since all minions die upon transformation use.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

The form removal is something to consider, but remember, this F5 skill is going to be “Toss Elixir X”. If you’re in Lich form and going up against an Engineer who hasn’t tried to Supply Crate you yet, then you’ll have to keep an eye out for the visual cue of him throwing a vial at you. Dodge it, and now you’re set.

I don’t think any of the other Toss Elixir skills are things you’d want to throw at your opponent rather than your allies, so the tell will be there.

That’s a really fast animation to be dodging, especially with the camera change. And especially for such a high recharge elite.

Well, time to theory craft my 5 elixer HgH build.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

That’s a really fast animation to be dodging, especially with the camera change. And especially for such a high recharge elite.

It’s not so much the animation as it is the vial coming towards you. It’s not a bullet or a ranger longbow arrow, it’s a potion vial. Not the fastest projectile in the world!

If we can react to things like Pin Down, surely lobbing a bottle at someone is something that people can handle. Though I know it’ll remain a special pain for Necromancers, needing to conserve one of their two dodges per life for the Elixir X until they know that the enemy Engineer brought Supply Crate instead.

Ithilwen.1529:

@Wolfie Keeping the integrity and spirit of a class is certainly a valid argument. The Devs themselves used it repeatedly in the livestream,

It’s Wolfey…. it’s even on the screen for you to copy and paste…that’s my #1 pet peeve sorry…

Anyways, back on topic.

If we are going with the “spirit of a class” should thieves and warriors have their bows removed since it takes away from the spirit of a Ranger? Bows are the one thing that most people associate with Rangers. Granted this is a bit of an extreme comparison but still.

AoE anti Elite Elite.. seems better than Mes.. though mes is still better for single target. Even as a quick timeout during a team fight it could turn a battle or stop key heals/rezing.

Maybe I’m just overthinking it. Who knows the full change to supply crate as well.

@wolfey. That’s what’s known as a “strawman” argument and such are considered invalid in any logic class. Not only that, it avoids my point.

I argued that AOE Moa is OP. I also argued that Moa is traditionally a Mesmer only skill. I was angry when I started seeing other classes generate Chaos Armor.

It feels like ANET is stripping Mesmer of it’s priveleges and it’s character. I see Mesmer becoming a very niche class with few players if the trend continues as it is.

Gryph.8237:

Anet = bias. It is so clear which classes receive attention and what classes they laugh at. Gw2 has become a placeholder for me until another mmo comes out that lacks this juvenile bias. Terrible and unprofessional devs.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. Seeing Davis and Peters joke about necros and rangers on every possibility kind of show their professionalism or lack thereof.

Not only that, but it’s more than evident that they are more excited about certain classes. The way they presented engies, guards and thieves was vividly different from the usual ‘no changes here/that’s fine’ treatment that necro got.

Engie is already the strongest PvP class, so what does Anet do? Improves the Crate, changes Elixir S so that it can counter a whole team, gives them a fifth toolbelt skill…

I want engie to be fun, but they could maybe first give some additional flavour to classes that need it more (fixing some ranger mechanics – sword for instance, adding flavour to mostly uninspired warriors, fixing minions and necros’ redundant state).

It’s much easier to focus on the cool classes and again just ignore the rest.

leman.7682:

Gryph.8237:

Anet = bias. It is so clear which classes receive attention and what classes they laugh at. Gw2 has become a placeholder for me until another mmo comes out that lacks this juvenile bias. Terrible and unprofessional devs.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. Seeing Davis and Peters joke about necros and rangers on every possibility kind of show their professionalism or lack thereof.

And seeing as many things they stated were false, therefore not knowing the traits fully, makes me worried about the balance.

Things like moa should not even exist in PvP and they make an aoe form. Exactly what it needs to keep people away from PvP.

leman.7682:

Gryph.8237:

Anet = bias. It is so clear which classes receive attention and what classes they laugh at. Gw2 has become a placeholder for me until another mmo comes out that lacks this juvenile bias. Terrible and unprofessional devs.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. Seeing Davis and Peters joke about necros and rangers on every possibility kind of show their professionalism or lack thereof.

Not only that, but it’s more than evident that they are more excited about certain classes. The way they presented engies, guards and thieves was vividly different from the usual ‘no changes here/that’s fine’ treatment that necro got.

Engie is already the strongest PvP class, so what does Anet do? Improves the Crate, changes Elixir S so that it can counter a whole team, gives them a fifth toolbelt skill…

I want engie to be fun, but they could maybe first give some additional flavour to classes that need it more (fixing some ranger mechanics – sword for instance, adding flavour to mostly uninspired warriors, fixing minions and necros’ redundant state).

It’s much easier to focus on the cool classes and again just ignore the rest.

Idk just because I think AOE Moa is OP doesnt mean its all bad. Rangers are actually going to be deadly at least the new LB Rangers are going to be single target nukes. Also I main necro and I’m actually excited for the update but I mostly play boon strip power necro and I’m saying this knowing my current build just got changed up.

Laraley.7695:

leman.7682:

Gryph.8237:

Anet = bias. It is so clear which classes receive attention and what classes they laugh at. Gw2 has become a placeholder for me until another mmo comes out that lacks this juvenile bias. Terrible and unprofessional devs.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. Seeing Davis and Peters joke about necros and rangers on every possibility kind of show their professionalism or lack thereof.

And seeing as many things they stated were false, therefore not knowing the traits fully, makes me worried about the balance.

Don’t worry about those classes for this reason. They were making countless mistakes on every class I play. (Thief, Engie, Ranger, Ele) Not knowing what minor already exist, or what are the classes grandmaster traits… So don’t let it get to you. I just went over all this with my thief. Trying to make some good builds and found a bunch. Overall, the system is more restrictive. But for professions that lacked diversity (Thief, Ele) in viable builds I think this will be an improvement. I still have to try and make a few engineer builds (as I’m not interested in ranger gameplay anymore, but it looks like more of the same, endless theorycrafting for good builds which blow unaware players up in seconds). I have a feeling classes like engineer and ranger are going to see a reduction in builds. But I’m not certain yet, I’ve got to spend some time trying to make new and exciting builds and see how it works out.

Guards look OP (and will probably get some nerfs before the release), thieves look like more of the same, but with more interesting choices, ele look nerfed in what we know, but they are opening a few interesting builds to counter this.

Loboling.5293:

Laraley.7695:

leman.7682:

Gryph.8237:

Anet = bias. It is so clear which classes receive attention and what classes they laugh at. Gw2 has become a placeholder for me until another mmo comes out that lacks this juvenile bias. Terrible and unprofessional devs.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. Seeing Davis and Peters joke about necros and rangers on every possibility kind of show their professionalism or lack thereof.

And seeing as many things they stated were false, therefore not knowing the traits fully, makes me worried about the balance.

Don’t worry about those classes for this reason. They were making countless mistakes on every class I play. (Thief, Engie, Ranger, Ele) Not knowing what minor already exist, or what are the classes grandmaster traits… So don’t let it get to you. I just went over all this with my thief. Trying to make some good builds and found a bunch. Overall, the system is more restrictive. But for professions that lacked diversity (Thief, Ele) in viable builds I think this will be an improvement. I still have to try and make a few engineer builds (as I’m not interested in ranger gameplay anymore, but it looks like more of the same, endless theorycrafting for good builds which blow unaware players up in seconds). I have a feeling classes like engineer and ranger are going to see a reduction in builds. But I’m not certain yet, I’ve got to spend some time trying to make new and exciting builds and see how it works out.

Guards look OP (and will probably get some nerfs before the release), thieves look like more of the same, but with more interesting choices, ele look nerfed in what we know, but they are opening a few interesting builds to counter this.

Well, the thing is thief got buffed a lot, ele got nerfed the most. They only sort of buffed and nerfed dd ele at the same time, but other specs didn’t get anything good but nerfs. So, I wouldn’t be surprised if we only saw dd eles after this. And according to others, all viable pve specs were removed to have only staff viable after this goes live. I don’t know if I will play ele anymore, it just makes me sad. I picked up thief because they seem to have lots good and interesting stuff incoming, but it’s no ele

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/653059691?t=2h08m30s

To clarify this, from stream is like 4s MoA AoE duration every 30s.

Basically it’s like a 4s Daze AoE (but u can press moa skills ).

Notice that you can use dodges and number 5 and duration would be basically expired.

It’s not clear if this MoA AoE can remove transformations.

The duration of the AoE Moa was pretty short in the stream (no more than 3 sec) and the radius wasn’t that large, so I’m not worried about its strength. They’re still looking at the numbers anyway. It is a shame it takes away from mesmer’s identity, though. But, what bothers me more, is that engies will effectively get 2 elite skills.

MarkPhilips.5169:

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/653059691?t=2h08m30s

To clarify this, from stream is like 4s MoA AoE duration every 30s.

Basically it’s like a 4s Daze AoE (but u can press moa skills ).

Notice that you can use dodges and number 5 and duration would be basically expired.

It’s not clear if this MoA AoE can remove transformations.

Its very unlikely that it wont destroy nekro minions or cancel elite transformations. So just another “I win” skill for engis.

Man, you got a point…

It should have been AoE Llama transformation.

4second AOE!! Moa every 30seconds….I’d rather have that than 10sec Moa single target on a 3mins cooldown….

Come on Arena-Net why does Engineers get all the stupid broken things. Slick Shoes, Undodgeable Rocket missiles, no windup knockbacks and now AoE Moa galore.

Malediktus.9250:

MarkPhilips.5169:

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/653059691?t=2h08m30s

To clarify this, from stream is like 4s MoA AoE duration every 30s.

Basically it’s like a 4s Daze AoE (but u can press moa skills ).

Notice that you can use dodges and number 5 and duration would be basically expired.

It’s not clear if this MoA AoE can remove transformations.

Its very unlikely that it wont destroy nekro minions or cancel elite transformations. So just another “I win” skill for engis.

We don’t know this, probably it will transform for 4s and after that Lich, Rampage etc. will continue.

I think people are getting a bit caught up in the theoretical imbalance of this skill without knowing all the details or seeing it in an actual meta.

Kinda reminds me of the community response to the announcements of “Diamond Skin” and “Stone Heart” before those skills were actually implemented.

because crate wasn’t op enough i guess….it’s just the best elitè in game atm

but pvp is already dead anyway so noone really cares anymore

Dahkeus.8243:

I think people are getting a bit caught up in the theoretical imbalance of this skill without knowing all the details or seeing it in an actual meta.

Kinda reminds me of the community response to the announcements of “Diamond Skin” and “Stone Heart” before those skills were actually implemented.

Turning everyone and their mother in a moa for 4sec on a 30cd is basically a iwin buttom in teamfight. Its not something easy to see coming either with all this clutter on screen.

Mortal kit is a joke as well along with blast finishers on a dodge.. they basically allowing engineer to faceroll their opponent with all these huge changes.

Engineer was always really strong, but with these changes he gains godmode tier. But im not surprised, after all devs favor engi over everything else (look at necro “changes”) in this game and pvp is dead so nobody cares as mentioned above.

MarkPhilips.5169:

Malediktus.9250:

MarkPhilips.5169:

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/653059691?t=2h08m30s

To clarify this, from stream is like 4s MoA AoE duration every 30s.

Basically it’s like a 4s Daze AoE (but u can press moa skills ).

Notice that you can use dodges and number 5 and duration would be basically expired.

It’s not clear if this MoA AoE can remove transformations.

Its very unlikely that it wont destroy nekro minions or cancel elite transformations. So just another “I win” skill for engis.

We don’t know this, probably it will transform for 4s and after that Lich, Rampage etc. will continue.

Transformations overwrite each other, so there is no reason why it wont be the case here.