Guild Wars 2

I hate to say this, since probably Engi is the most “skill requiring” profession in the whole game, along with few other builds.

But they have too much.

Strong CCs, strong conditions, the strongest heal in game, very good mobility, great support.

It’s been like this for months right now, but very few complain about it ( altough we all know it).

I don’t think they should be nerfed since they have so many tools it’s fantastic, i really believe all classes should strive to be like the engi.

But since there are classes with obvious limitations due to their design, it’s not possible.

So they should be nerfed in a way or another, because they simply have TOO MUCH, with the possibility of being very tanky doing so ( unlike the mesmer, which also is capable of doing tons of things but needs to sacrifice its survivability in order to be efficient, or needs to go full bunker).

I’m not biased, i really love you engies, but you’re too stronk.

I agree , highest skillcap class but the condi spam is just as annoying as necros. They need to bring down condis a lil bit and make them more viable with power builds like riffle .

I agree that some Engy builds are borderline overpowered. They are just flying under the radar because they aren’t all that popular and because Warriors are the focus of most balance topics.

I think that what makes Engies so powerful is their synergy with tanky stats combined with Condition Damage, just like Necros.

Aka. you can combine Toughness, Vitality and Condition Damage, thus getting a very tanky, but also very threatening build.

And then you have the fact that Engies can dump quite a lot of different conditions on their target….and you have something borderline OP.

Addressing this gear scaling issue would probably help bringing both Necros and Engies back in line without affecting their fundamental class mechanics.

Oh and the +/- 40% Condition Duration food has to go.

Mrbig.8019:

I hate to say this, since probably Engi is the most “skill requiring” profession in the whole game, along with few other builds.

But they have too much.

Strong CCs, strong conditions, the strongest heal in game, very good mobility, great support.

It’s been like this for months right now, but very few complain about it ( altough we all know it).

I don’t think they should be nerfed since they have so many tools it’s fantastic, i really believe all classes should strive to be like the engi.

But since there are classes with obvious limitations due to their design, it’s not possible.

So they should be nerfed in a way or another, because they simply have TOO MUCH, with the possibility of being very tanky doing so ( unlike the mesmer, which also is capable of doing tons of things but needs to sacrifice its survivability in order to be efficient, or needs to go full bunker).

I’m not biased, i really love you engies, but you’re too stronk.

I’d argue that Consume Conditions is a far far stronger heal. If youre looking for a waterfield its all about healing spring, Think about the amount of time an engi has to spend healing up compared to most classes, ok its pretty much uninteruptable but the condi cleanse is invaluable and actually one of our only active condi cleanses if youre not playing elixir build.

When you say very good mobility, they have a lot of swiftness, sure. What support are they bringing other than what can be provided by blast finishers? The healing spring gives a bit I guess, and supply crate is an excellent elite, but that’s really it in terms of real support.

Yeah they do have a lot of CC, but they also have virtually no access to stability in the specs youll be talking about them in.

Theres a lot you’ve missed out there, sustain, which they have if theyre skillful and use defensive kits but not otherwise and condi removal, which the current meta spec really lacks. Its virtually impossible to beat half decent Necromancers on an Engineer, or any true Condi specs for that matter. Theyre one of the easiest targets to take down in a team fight, and actually I only see there role as being far point support.

They are very good 1v1, but it takes skill to do that, some specs can handle a 2v1 better than a lot of other classes in the game, but those specs dont have all the things that you were talking about.

Look at the current Hambow warrior. It has sustain, excellent condi clears, control, high damage, mobility not that far off the engi, excellent 1v1 capability and good team fight support. It has a lot more for a significantly lower skill cap at the moment.

Now that is changing, but just to put it in perspective. What role do you see them in where you feel theyre OP?

They will let conditions destroy pvp so it can be viable in pve.

jonnis.2946:

Mrbig.8019:

I hate to say this, since probably Engi is the most “skill requiring” profession in the whole game, along with few other builds.

But they have too much.

Strong CCs, strong conditions, the strongest heal in game, very good mobility, great support.

It’s been like this for months right now, but very few complain about it ( altough we all know it).

I don’t think they should be nerfed since they have so many tools it’s fantastic, i really believe all classes should strive to be like the engi.

But since there are classes with obvious limitations due to their design, it’s not possible.

So they should be nerfed in a way or another, because they simply have TOO MUCH, with the possibility of being very tanky doing so ( unlike the mesmer, which also is capable of doing tons of things but needs to sacrifice its survivability in order to be efficient, or needs to go full bunker).

I’m not biased, i really love you engies, but you’re too stronk.

I’d argue that Consume Conditions is a far far stronger heal. If youre looking for a waterfield its all about healing spring, Think about the amount of time an engi has to spend healing up compared to most classes, ok its pretty much uninteruptable but the condi cleanse is invaluable and actually one of our only active condi cleanses if youre not playing elixir build.

When you say very good mobility, they have a lot of swiftness, sure. What support are they bringing other than what can be provided by blast finishers? The healing spring gives a bit I guess, and supply crate is an excellent elite, but that’s really it in terms of real support.

Yeah they do have a lot of CC, but they also have virtually no access to stability in the specs youll be talking about them in.

Theres a lot you’ve missed out there, sustain, which they have if theyre skillful and use defensive kits but not otherwise and condi removal, which the current meta spec really lacks. Its virtually impossible to beat half decent Necromancers on an Engineer, or any true Condi specs for that matter. Theyre one of the easiest targets to take down in a team fight, and actually I only see there role as being far point support.

They are very good 1v1, but it takes skill to do that, some specs can handle a 2v1 better than a lot of other classes in the game, but those specs dont have all the things that you were talking about.

Look at the current Hambow warrior. It has sustain, excellent condi clears, control, high damage, mobility not that far off the engi, excellent 1v1 capability and good team fight support. It has a lot more for a significantly lower skill cap at the moment.

Now that is changing, but just to put it in perspective. What role do you see them in where you feel theyre OP?

Healing turret is the strongest HPS heal in the game, probably secondo only to Ether feast with 3 illusions up and Consume conditions with max conditions.

Without accounting regen, which makes healing turret the best one.

It’s a water field that can be blast by turret detonate, shield 4 and big ol bomb, multiple times by multiple blast finishers ( not only engies ones).

HEaling turret toolbelt skill is also a water field.

In team fights ( huge team fights ) an engi can always drop smoke bomb, blast finisher and stealth away, or simply jumping away with the elixir gun ( if he has it).

With granades and bombs they have incredible impact on field control and downed bodies control.

If opponents have no stability they can push away all stompers, stealth the ally ( smoke bomb+ big ol bomb or shield 4) and easily ress him with no need for elixir R ( which they can also carry).

They’re the best decappers by far.

They’re the strongest 1vs1 profession, aside maybe dps guards, and lose consistently only against necros ( spirit rangers can also beat them if they see them before engaging).

With supply crate they can win any 1vs1, against any proff, even 2vs1.

They offer AoE CCs, field control, stealth, stomps, good ress capability if they have CDs available, a water field EVERY 15 SECS AND ANOTHER ONE EVERY 20 ( reason why it can be easily compared with Healing spring), AN AOE HEAL EVERY 15 SECS ( reason why it’s better than Healing spring) very good damage and can also easily beat those wars you talked about by simply taking a trait ( protection injection).

Engies are the gods of GW2. And i’m fine with it, since they’re the highest skill cap proff in the game.

But it’s simply not fair for other professions, because they’ve design flaws unlike engies, and it’s not fair for those who like other professions and will NEVER reach engi capabilities simply because their proff doesn’t have the tools to reach that level.

Mrbig.8019:

Healing turret is the strongest HPS heal in the game, probably secondo only to Ether feast with 3 illusions up and Consume conditions with max conditions.

Without accounting regen, which makes healing turret the best one.

It’s a water field that can be blast by turret detonate, shield 4 and big ol bomb, multiple times by multiple blast finishers ( not only engies ones).

HEaling turret toolbelt skill is also a water field.

In team fights ( huge team fights ) an engi can always drop smoke bomb, blast finisher and stealth away, or simply jumping away with the elixir gun ( if he has it).

With granades and bombs they have incredible impact on field control and downed bodies control.

If opponents have no stability they can push away all stompers, stealth the ally ( smoke bomb+ big ol bomb or shield 4) and easily ress him with no need for elixir R ( which they can also carry).

They’re the best decappers by far.

They’re the strongest 1vs1 profession, aside maybe dps guards, and lose consistently only against necros ( spirit rangers can also beat them if they see them before engaging).

With supply crate they can win any 1vs1, against any proff, even 2vs1.

They offer AoE CCs, field control, stealth, stomps, good ress capability if they have CDs available, a water field EVERY 15 SECS AND ANOTHER ONE EVERY 20 ( reason why it can be easily compared with Healing spring), AN AOE HEAL EVERY 15 SECS ( reason why it’s better than Healing spring) very good damage and can also easily beat those wars you talked about by simply taking a trait ( protection injection).

Engies are the gods of GW2. And i’m fine with it, since they’re the highest skill cap proff in the game.

But it’s simply not fair for other professions, because they’ve design flaws unlike engies, and it’s not fair for those who like other professions and will NEVER reach engi capabilities simply because their proff doesn’t have the tools to reach that level.

Engineers have become one of the best-designed profs in the game (they were…kind of thrown together before launch, but they’re really fluid now). And they’re good in a variety of roles. However, keep a few things in mind:

1. Engineers are already slated for a couple significant nerfs Dec. 10
2. Engineers are designed as a versatile, jack-of-all-trades profession, so it’s not fair to complain that they can “do it all.” Of course they can, they’re supposed to.
3. Engineers aren’t shutting any other builds out of the meta—i.e. s/d thieves are a big reason why mesmers and burst eles haven’t been seeing much play.
4. Engineers don’t fill any “mandatory” role on a team, such as bunker guard, spirit ranger, hammer warrior. They’re simply pretty good at a variety of things, which nets them a spot on some top-tier teams. I guess I just don’t see the problem with that.

lol at this thread sooo wrongggggggg

Highest hp/s heal = warrior signet
strongest cc’s = warrior (engi has the most but then build is just a troll that does no damage)
Water field = ranger
tanky = engis are generally 2650 armor. Hardly tankiest
conditions= necro
support =guardian

Engis have a bit of everything not the best at everything lol.

Before I start, I largely agree with you on a lot of your points. But I don’t think we come to the same conclusion.

Mrbig.8019:

Healing turret is the strongest HPS heal in the game, probably secondo only to Ether feast with 3 illusions up and Consume conditions with max conditions.

Without accounting regen, which makes healing turret the best one.

Healing turret is 6360 every 20 seconds with overcharge, 5340 every 15 seconds without. Thats 356 healing per second, adding the regen its 399 per second and removes two conditions. Healing signet heals for 392 per second. It is however the hardest heal skill (imo) to use, this is a running theme..

Consume conditions will only outdo this if you have more than 5 conditions on you every time you heal, but its the strongest because it removes every condition and removes poison before the heal. Ether Feast gives 374 hps with 3 illusions up, 342 with two illusions up.

Mrbig.8019:

It’s a water field that can be blast by turret detonate, shield 4 and big ol bomb, multiple times by multiple blast finishers ( not only engies ones).

HEaling turret toolbelt skill is also a water field.

I saw an Engineer/Ranger team that ran without a guard and won all the team fights by blast finishing in water fields. I think thats a really exciting way to play, that requires coordination and rewards skill level! Why would you not want something like this?!

Mrbig.8019:

In team fights ( huge team fights ) an engi can always drop smoke bomb, blast finisher and stealth away, or simply jumping away with the elixir gun ( if he has it).

This takes time and is fiddly to setup, which normally you don’t have when escaping. Thieves, Rangers, Elementalists, Necromancers all have options for far easier escapes than this. If you’re skillful enough to do it though, why not reward it?

Mrbig.8019:

With granades and bombs they have incredible impact on field control and downed bodies control.

Downed body control, along with our water field, is the best thing we bring to team fights. All classes have ways to do it, and Nade/bomb spam is far from the best (necro wells/marks, mesmer shatters, I could go on). Other than the Poison Grenades though, they are not fields, which provide better field control in general. All spamming grenades will lead to is you being the target.

Mrbig.8019:

If opponents have no stability they can push away all stompers, stealth the ally ( smoke bomb+ big ol bomb or shield 4) and easily ress him with no need for elixir R ( which they can also carry).

No stability? Guardians have a trait that automatically activates to push stompers away. Thieves could just shove a shadow refuge down. The method you’re speaking about is incredibly fiddly, its only 3 seconds of stealth per blast! You can’t get someone ressed in that time. Taking Elixir R means you don’t have a stun break, no one does it anymore.

Mrbig.8019:

They’re the best decappers by far.

They’re the strongest 1vs1 profession, aside maybe dps guards, and lose consistently only against necros ( spirit rangers can also beat them if they see them before engaging).

With supply crate they can win any 1vs1, against any proff, even 2vs1.

They offer AoE CCs, field control, stealth, stomps, good ress capability if they have CDs available, a water field EVERY 15 SECS AND ANOTHER ONE EVERY 20 ( reason why it can be easily compared with Healing spring), AN AOE HEAL EVERY 15 SECS ( reason why it’s better than Healing spring) very good damage and can also easily beat those wars you talked about by simply taking a trait ( protection injection).

I’d strongly argue mesmers are the strongest 1v1 class, just with builds that are not tournament play viable. They do make good decappers, as they have good CC and are decent 1v1, though not unequivocally the best. Most Engineers will take Protection injection and often Stabilized Armor too if they see Warriors on the other team, it helps in 1v1s, but not so much if youre being focused and the stunbreak choices for Engineer are poor.

Their Aoe CC is heavily countered by the amount of Stab in the game at the moment, but yeah, thats a bonus that not many other classes have. The stealth they have is very minimal. Thieves and Mesmers have far far more. They have a safe stomp on a 60 second CD, otherwise they are ill equipped to stomp, though they do have good access to blinds.

Mrbig.8019:

Engies are the gods of GW2. And i’m fine with it, since they’re the highest skill cap proff in the game.

But it’s simply not fair for other professions, because they’ve design flaws unlike engies, and it’s not fair for those who like other professions and will NEVER reach engi capabilities simply because their proff doesn’t have the tools to reach that level

I completely agree that engineers have the highest skillcap in the game, assuming youre taking a build with multiple kits. Its like managing an elementalist with 0 attunement Cooldown. That doesn’t mean they’re flawed, it just means they aren’t as complex, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing!

However, I think what youre asking for is that every profession is given the tools to be as versatile as the Engineer. Either you do this without fundamentally changing the dynamics of each profession, which won’t change the skill cap, which will make the risk/reward for the Engineer totally worthless. Or you make every class as difficult as the Engineer, at which point everyone quits the game, because Engineer in Pvp is a niche market and is too much for most players. I’ve played 100 odd games on it, miles off mastering it.

To me, they’re perfect for advanced players that really enjoy the game, and I want them to stay as versatile as they are, because I want to see skill continue to be rewarded. I think Eles should be brought up to a similar level too.

People talk a lot about build diversity, Engineers can be effective running a lot of different things, if all youre after is build diversity, then thats fine, but I just want the Engineer to be a little bit better at a few roles, and I’ll be happy.

JinDaVikk.7291:

lol at this thread sooo wrongggggggg

says the guy that started the longbow/longbow war meta

jonnis.2946:

Before I start, I largely agree with you on a lot of your points. But I don’t think we come to the same conclusion.

I saw an Engineer/Ranger team that ran without a guard and won all the team fights by blast finishing in water fields. I think thats a really exciting way to play, that requires coordination and rewards skill level! Why would you not want something like this?!

This takes time and is fiddly to setup, which normally you don’t have when escaping. Thieves, Rangers, Elementalists, Necromancers all have options for far easier escapes than this. If you’re skillful enough to do it though, why not reward it?

Downed body control, along with our water field, is the best thing we bring to team fights. All classes have ways to do it, and Nade/bomb spam is far from the best (necro wells/marks, mesmer shatters, I could go on). Other than the Poison Grenades though, they are not fields, which provide better field control in general. All spamming grenades will lead to is you being the target.

No stability? Guardians have a trait that automatically activates to push stompers away. Thieves could just shove a shadow refuge down. The method you’re speaking about is incredibly fiddly, its only 3 seconds of stealth per blast! You can’t get someone ressed in that time. Taking Elixir R means you don’t have a stun break, no one does it anymore.

I’d strongly argue mesmers are the strongest 1v1 class, just with builds that are not tournament play viable. They do make good decappers, as they have good CC and are decent 1v1, though not unequivocally the best. Most Engineers will take Protection injection and often Stabilized Armor too if they see Warriors on the other team, it helps in 1v1s, but not so much if youre being focused and the stunbreak choices for Engineer are poor.

Their Aoe CC is heavily countered by the amount of Stab in the game at the moment, but yeah, thats a bonus that not many other classes have. The stealth they have is very minimal. Thieves and Mesmers have far far more. They have a safe stomp on a 60 second CD, otherwise they are ill equipped to stomp, though they do have good access to blinds.

But infact i said engi requires the most skill of every proff. It’s exciting even as a watcher standpoint to see all the crutch plays engies need to do in order to stomp-ress-CC-heal and such.

But still they’re so good at everything that other classes can really do nothing when compared to engies.

We need at least to make other proffs A LOT BETTER than engies in specific roles ( currently only guardians achieve this status) in order to balance things a bit.

@jindavikk

Engies are good in everything, VERY GOOD in everything. This while other classes slightly outperform them in SPECIFIC roles. This makes engis the overall best choice.

If you take a team with 3 engies, 1 spirit ranger and a bunker guard you have literally a team with no flaws.

Zerker stance will end sooner or later, so it’s not a real “counter” ( like stability against hambow wars).

@nevirsaydie

Currently engies are really good in everything. Other classes cannot simply compare.

10th december nerfs won’t be really enough, it’s basically just slightly less vigor ( down from 100% uptime to 60% uptime) and more recharge on bombs and granades.

Again, i believe every proff should strive to reach engi level, but other professions are simply not designed to be in such way.

That’s why engies are so stronk, and always will be till they really specialize them.

There was a time when the game was like this. Then dhuumfire patch came, and now the game is power creeping, and 10th december nerfs to other proffs won’t fix it.

In current meta, engies are kings.

I’m totally agree with OP.

As much as all the engineers would like to believe, hitting the most buttons != the highest skill cap.

I think youre missing my point, I accept that Engineers are the best profession as a Jack of all Trades class. More than that, I relish it, I’m really glad they’re able to have a go at everything. However at the moment, I think they are only “best” at far point assault. I think Necros bring more as a Condi Dps at the midfight, but they arent bad there. They can be semi decent home bunkers, have reasonable support through group healing, but all these things limit them in other areas.

But I want them to be better because theyre harder to play! Otherwise everyone will just play whats easiest to play, why bother playing something where you’ll be punished for making mistakes if you can play something where you won’t make mistakes and wouldnt be punished as harshly.

You can’t make everything as hard as Engineers because it would make the game too difficult to pick up. You can’t make everything as good as Engineers because then they’d become worthless.

I don’t think that in any one build the Engineer brings to a Team Arena, that they then don’t have the capacity to change, they bring significantly more than anyone else, not to the degree that youre suggesting. They have a lot of options, and can play a lot of different ways, but once their traits and utilities are set they dont have that much more to offer than other classes.

I think Engineers are in a great place at the moment, and would hate to see their current state change at all

Warriors haven’t even been nerfed yet and people are already complaining about engies wait for my mesmer adter dec ull say mesmers are OP

jonnis.2946:

I think youre missing my point, I accept that Engineers are the best profession as a Jack of all Trades class. More than that, I relish it, I’m really glad they’re able to have a go at everything. However at the moment, I think they are only “best” at far point assault. I think Necros bring more as a Condi Dps at the midfight, but they arent bad there. They can be semi decent home bunkers, have reasonable support through group healing, but all these things limit them in other areas.

But I want them to be better because theyre harder to play! Otherwise everyone will just play whats easiest to play, why bother playing something where you’ll be punished for making mistakes if you can play something where you won’t make mistakes and wouldnt be punished as harshly.

You can’t make everything as hard as Engineers because it would make the game too difficult to pick up. You can’t make everything as good as Engineers because then they’d become worthless.

I don’t think that in any one build the Engineer brings to a Team Arena, that they then don’t have the capacity to change, they bring significantly more than anyone else, not to the degree that youre suggesting. They have a lot of options, and can play a lot of different ways, but once their traits and utilities are set they dont have that much more to offer than other classes.

I think Engineers are in a great place at the moment, and would hate to see their current state change at all

They basically offer everything other classes do, with few restrictions ( limited stealth, no stability, specific boon sharing).

I don’t want the engi to be changed, i want other classes to be BETTER than engies in other roles.

Engi is the “debunker” and already has a good specific role that other professions can’t cover.

But if other classes do not bring enough damage, enough CCs, enough utility to make them worth instead of an engi, we have a problem.

Simply because engi has the highest skill cap, it doesn’t mean it should be SO MUCH considerably better than other professions, otherwise let’s just all play engi and who cares.

As i said, an eventual 3 engi-spirit ranger-bunker guard team has no flaws at all ( you can put 3 wars instead of 3 engis, just for the sake of comparing how strong engi is, since we all know war is OP).

I don’t want to nerf engi, i want other classes to be better, in order to compete with engies ( and i’m not talking about necessarly increasing other classes skill cap, war is a good example, tough overbuffed).

Take a look at thieves, they’re simply horrible design wise. Ranger the same, they rely on gimmicky AI in order to be viable.

Mesmer offers very good utility but its damage isn’t overall THAT MUCH higher than engies ( and we come back to the issue) while not being so survivable.

Those are just examples, but clearly show there’s something wrong when the best class is the jack of all trades.

And it’s not this class fault, but other classes’ one.

Let’s list everything a jack-of-all-trades class has and pretend they can do it all at once.

Yeah, no. This thread is complete garbage and sounds more like a learn to play issue. At least spell “strong” right if you want to be taken seriously. These “X class is OP” threads only seem to draw those who refuse to admit loss based on skill or those so adamantly opposed (usually said class) they seem biased.

bethekey.8314:

Let’s list everything a jack-of-all-trades class has and pretend they can do it all at once.

Yeah, no. This thread is complete garbage and sounds more like a learn to play issue. At least spell “strong” right if you want to be taken seriously. These “X class is OP” threads only seem to draw those who refuse to admit loss based on skill or those so adamantly opposed (usually said class) they seem biased.

You’ve literally understood nothing of what i said.

Mrbig.8019:

As i said, an eventual 3 engi-spirit ranger-bunker guard team has no flaws at all ( you can put 3 wars instead of 3 engis, just for the sake of comparing how strong engi is, since we all know war is OP).

Form this team and dominate the next two major tournaments. Saying that a profession would theoretically be OP if a team could be convinced to use three of them is…not persuasive. At all. So convince your teammates to run this in the next two major tournaments, or I’m not buying it. If you can’t even convince your own teammates that this comp is good, how do you expect anyone else to believe you?

Throwing out the “OP” accusation is something that should be done much more carefully.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Mrbig.8019:

As i said, an eventual 3 engi-spirit ranger-bunker guard team has no flaws at all ( you can put 3 wars instead of 3 engis, just for the sake of comparing how strong engi is, since we all know war is OP).

Form this team and dominate the next two major tournaments. Saying that a profession would theoretically be OP if a team could be convinced to use three of them is…not persuasive. At all. So convince your teammates to run this in the next two major tournaments, or I’m not buying it. If you can’t even convince your own teammates that this comp is good, how do you expect anyone else to believe you?

Throwing out the “OP” accusation is something that should be done much more carefully.

I’m not saying engi is OP. I’m saying it’s TOO STRONG.

Again, i believe engi capabilities should be what all classes should achieve to, in a way or another.

Engi is the only one having such capabilities, aside mesmers, with the difference that engis damage is much more effective against current "sturdy"opponents.

The point of this thread is to show that other classes have been “dumbed down” to sustain, where we cannot compete with engies ( or OP wars).

There’s no competition right now in this game, reason why nobody tries stuff and just runs cheese builds, reason why you see so many wars ( which basically takes engi place with lot less effort).

Tone down wars and engies are right after.

We all know it, no reason to be so defensive.

Again, i don’t want the engi nerfed, i want other classes IMPROVED ( not buffed, it’s different).

Mrbig.8019:

Again, i believe engi capabilities should be what all classes should achieve to, in a way or another.

All professions should be jack-of-all-trades by design?

Mrbig.8019:

Tone down wars and engies are right after.

Actually, engineers are getting their nerfs in the same patch.

Mrbig.8019:

We all know it, no reason to be so defensive.

I’m not trying to be defensive, I’m trying to figure out what’s going on. Engineers are a jack-of-all-trades, which is too strong, but not OP, and other professions should be improved but not buffed? And a three-engi team would sweep tournaments if anyone tried it, but they won’t because engineers are too hard to play? I honestly don’t understand the thread.

In any event, balance threads between now and december 20th or so are pretty meaningless. This is a massive patch, and Anet can’t possibly be thinking about how they’ll adjust the next meta yet.

Well it’s mainly game mode problem. You just need to spam kitten inside ring. In real fight crappy necro player is 100x more effective than crappy engi player. By the way when engineer did become strong? Did they get some huge ninja boost or or did somebody make guide and now sPvP engineers know that you can actually blast those waterfields?

I play Engie a lot and I consider myself to be the most unbiased person who plays the class. I was probably one of the first people to call out Automated Response as OP. So when it comes to analyzing the Engi class as a whole, my opinion sits on, nope they aren’t OP it just Automated response.

And here’s why, they can easily be killed by staying out of their effective range. Yes grenades and bombs can really mess up a team fight but that’s just a player taking advantage of a situation that plays into his favour. That very build is easily swatted down by a long range GS mesmer, heck even a dual pistol thief can bring an Engie down fast.

Strongest heal in the game? or do you mean “potentially” the strongest heal in the game? Because a team can get up to 10k heals in that 3 seconds if sitting on a point but if the engie can’t manage to land his blast finishers, it’s pretty much useless.

For right now, I think Engineers are fine. Mr. Big you may be jumping the gun a little. Call me when Bomb heal improvements hit live then ask me again if Engies are OP . I have a feeling it won’t even be a question at that point.

i dont really get your point mrbig what are you saying ng isn`t op just strong so nerf it?
ng have alot of tool but they take alot of skill to pull off so nerf it?
but dont nerf it?
you didn`t really pointed out anything you think that need to be fix so i`ll take this post as a rant nothing more.

*ht isn`t the best heal in the game,ng aren’t as tanky as some ppl think you cant facetank dmg at all,aside from rifle 3 all the cc is hard to land,same for unloading condi on someone stay at 600+ range and the ng will do no dmg.
ng are weak to condi,range dmg,cc and all are strongly present in the meta.
not to name names but some professions/builds can 100% every time kill a ng at will even if they get outplayed on every turn so reliable counters are there no need to add more.

AR is the only thing i see op on engineer atm but it isnt as game breaking as some things are just a bit op.

guardians are op, but since nobody gets gankd, nobody complains.

Engis are def about to be OP, and are right under like Mr. Big said.

They rock…what else is there to say? They can do it all.

Engineers OP as kitten – can confirm. Conclusive evidence: http://i.imgur.com/uYMpKEu.jpg

In all seriousness, I feel like they’re right where they need to be currently, however post patch Engineers two main counters – Necromancers, and lesser so, warriors – are getting nerfed slightly wheras Engineers don’t really get a serious nerf at all (I know what you’re thinking, I’ll get on to that in a moment). It’s safe to say that this will make them a fair bit stronger than they already are.

The worst part is the patch does nothing for the classes build diversity – 30/x/x/20/10 bomb/nade/something else is probably the most powerful engineer build going, and barely anything about this actually changes. The vigor nerf is not all that bad (Can be worked around with swift on crit) and I (And several others) use an adept trait in the second slot in explosives anyway. All this change does is remove fringe builds which rely on incendiary being accessible.

I will agree that engis are just insane though – even when I play horribly I feel like I’m contributing way too much – so I suggest three nerfs instead of the rubbish they’re doing now.

• Incendiary Powder be an on-hit effect that recharges every 10 seconds in a similar way to venoms, sigil of doom/life leech, vitrue of justice, etc so that it can be countered
• Heal turret’s cast time be increased by 0.5 seconds so that it can be countered.
• Keep the vigor nerf, it’s good, dodge spamming is bad for the game.

Dee Jay.2460:

I agree that some Engy builds are borderline overpowered. They are just flying under the radar because they aren’t all that popular and because Warriors are the focus of most balance topics.

I think that what makes Engies so powerful is their synergy with tanky stats combined with Condition Damage, just like Necros.

Aka. you can combine Toughness, Vitality and Condition Damage, thus getting a very tanky, but also very threatening build.

And then you have the fact that Engies can dump quite a lot of different conditions on their target….and you have something borderline OP.

Addressing this gear scaling issue would probably help bringing both Necros and Engies back in line without affecting their fundamental class mechanics.

Oh and the +/- 40% Condition Duration food has to go.

I said this a good month ago that while every one is hating on warrior…engi is actually the profession to watch. It is not so much their conditions, it is their play style that does not require them to engage the a target 50% of the time. Run in circles with perma regen/swiftness/vigor/40% might/30% fury and drop nades and bombs. They are given the excuse of high skill level, but the truth of it is that they are a rain or shine build. Doesn’t matter if they’re facing a rank 1 or rank 1000..you just use the same rotation over and over again and pay no real attention to what your opponent is doing. You may hit more buttons, but that doesn’t make it more skilled. It is called button mashing.

I gotta say engi skill floor went down A LOT with the recent patches…

Before yea I would totally agree with you that it was the hardest class to play.. now? Shatter mesmer and FA ele are the hardest.. imho..

Difficult to master? Strive to be like the engineer?
Holy crap that would be a bad game. Everyone just running around in circles spamming AoE-condition fields on top of themselves.

I gotta say you people are insane. If you believe that engis are so incredibly easy for how effective they are then I beg of you to go make one and play it right now. Then go make a hammer longbow warrior. Then go make a necro. It is NOT easy to be good on engi. I’m NOT biased, I play other classes extensively and have an incredible knowledge of how this game works. There is a kitten good reason why there are so few GOOD condi engis.

For the record, engis nearing the skill cap are too strong. The nerfs to vigor is a good first step albeit a bit misguided considering that the insane efficacy of engis that came about recently is from the fire bomb radius increase. Bomb nade is a kittening monster build and NEEDS to be toned down. Engis that actually kill things aren’t in need of a nerf to survivability in any way.

Writetyper.1985:

In all seriousness, I feel like they’re right where they need to be currently, however post patch Engineers two main counters – Necromancers, and lesser so, warriors – are getting nerfed slightly wheras Engineers don’t really get a serious nerf at all (I know what you’re thinking, I’ll get on to that in a moment). .

Necros lose 1 bleed on their staff 2, people whont even notice it.

The nerf to hammer will actually hurt engineers. One of the main thing an engi does to counter warriors is spec in to prot injection. So hammer basicly gives them protection whenever the warriors wants to hurt them. If they dont spec in to prot injection this happens: http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/3063182

Warriors will look for alternatives and the damage of those alternatives will be harder to counter than the current hambow is imo. Played around with some axe builds on my alt warrior last night and i was slicing through those “tanky” engineers like a hot knife through butter.

Just a few of my personal thoughts about engineers:

+ Engineers are great for some off point support. Grenades from the top of ledges and being able to push far point a few seconds later. This is where the prof shines imo since you can provide support and add pressure from relatively long range (eventho ppl will see those nades inc and are able to dodge due to travel time).
+ Supply crate is one of the best if not the best elite in the game atm. This is imo the main reason why (condi) engineers are considered strong in 1v1 situations.
+ The healing is potent…but only if used in combination with multiple blast finishers.

- Their condi damage isnt nearly as potent as necros’ and it involves dodgeable skillshots. As necro i can spam autoaim scepter 1 for a similar effect as multiple landed nades for example.
- The condiremoval of most meta builds is really weak.
- Engi heavily relies on vigor/dodges to survive. Locking him in to place with an immob means he can die within 3 seconds.

Ostricheggs.3742:

I gotta say you people are insane. If you believe that engis are so incredibly easy for how effective they are then I beg of you to go make one and play it right now. Then go make a hammer longbow warrior. Then go make a necro. It is NOT easy to be good on engi. I’m NOT biased, I play other classes extensively and have an incredible knowledge of how this game works. There is a kitten good reason why there are so few GOOD condi engis.

For the record, engis nearing the skill cap are too strong. The nerfs to vigor is a good first step albeit a bit misguided considering that the insane efficacy of engis that came about recently is from the fire bomb radius increase. Bomb nade is a kittening monster build and NEEDS to be toned down. Engis that actually kill things aren’t in need of a nerf to survivability in any way.

i agree here..
and again it looks like only pve people comment in these threads about classes being op.. an engineer can get oneshotted by warrior (if he hits the first stun ofc)

Engi are OP only with great player
War bowhammer are OP with bad player and godmode with great player

st desnuss.5738:

Engi are OP only with great player
War bowhammer are OP with bad player and godmode with great player

Rofl, please this is just nonesense..
Because your getting outplayed suddenly its op now?

If engis were as easy to make very useful as people are claiming wouldnt they be played to the same numbers as warriors? They just aren’t, stats or personal observation is enough to convice you of that. Maybe slight issues with the way they force trades of homepoints (cause the engi who stays to defend his point will end up getting knocked and it decapped all while the other side is uncontested) but thats more a personal thing. I do sometimes see an engi and go “wow that was OP! O_o” but it happens rarely enough for me to understand that was well played from the engi and every class can do something ridiculous from time to time. The classes you should be worried about are the ones you see doing something ridiculously op every time you see them. psst you know who you are!

Engis are not op, simply because they have hardcounters (condis and cc).

They are strong in 1 vs1 situations against some classes (if played right), but your team can just send a necro to his point or maybe a good war(also a s/d thief can make it (depends on thief and engi)). So i think there is no problem with engis in 1 vs 1 situations, you just have to coordinate your team.

Engis can also be very strong in teamfight, if you let them spamm their granades out of range, but once you set your thief or greatswordmes or necro or war… on him the nades wont hurt you anymore. so you have to watch out for the nades as a team.
If they are on the point, just give him imobilize and hes dead

so in conclusion i can say:
Engi is strong if played right, but can also be counterd by your team. So Engis are in a good spot, not op and not too weak. So why change anything?

JinDaVikk.7291:

lol at this thread sooo wrongggggggg
Highest hp/s heal = warrior signet

Engi skills have the highest hps, when valued alone:

Healing turret with combo blast:

cd: 20 seconds

Healing from the skill: 2520*2= 5040 healing
Regen: 8 seconds = 1040 healing
Blasting Waterfield with detonate turret: 1320 healing

HPS = (5040+1040+1320)/20 = 370

But

Toolbelt skill gives 780 more heal every 25 seconds. We have to add this hps separately:

780/25=31,2

Total hps = 401,2.

If you add another blast finisher (e.g. by adding rocket boots, which has the same cooldown), you increase hps even more.

But does that mean engi is OP? not at all. Take into account that in order to have stealth, I have to use a blast that I will not be using for healing (unless I need to both heal AND stealth, which IMHO rarely happens).

Mrbig.8019

You’ve literally understood nothing of what i said.

I’m not going to spend time re-iterating what others have said and you’ve failed to counter. Your argument is beyond simple to the point it’s laughable. Forgive me if there’s some facet of actual insight nestled within that I missed after I discarded this thread among the others that won’t be taken seriously by Anet.

Engies are good in everything, VERY GOOD in everything.

Mrbig.8019

But they have too much.

Mrbig.8019

I don’t think they should be nerfed since they have so many tools it’s fantastic.

Mrbig.8019

So they should be nerfed in a way or another, because they simply have TOO MUCH.

Mrbig.8019

But still they’re so good at everything

Mrbig.8019

Currently engies are really good in everything.

Mrbig.8019

They basically offer everything other classes do

And my favorite, because you bolded it with such conviction:

Simply because engi has the highest skill cap, it doesn’t mean it should be SO MUCH considerably better than other professions, otherwise let’s just all play engi and who cares.

Yes, do that. I challenge you. Play the least-played, highest skill cap class who is so much better than other professions at…oh, what was the word?

everything

and become the best player in the game. Your posts might have some weight behind them then.

Mesmers need nerf because they make clones and i never know who i should hit.

a t s e.9614:

I agree , highest skillcap class but the condi spam is just as annoying as necros. They need to bring down condis a lil bit and make them more viable with power builds like riffle .

Just as annoying as Necros. So nerf Engi’s. what?

Writetyper.1985:

Engineers OP as kitten – can confirm. Conclusive evidence: http://i.imgur.com/uYMpKEu.jpg

In all seriousness, I feel like they’re right where they need to be currently, however post patch Engineers two main counters – Necromancers, and lesser so, warriors – are getting nerfed slightly wheras Engineers don’t really get a serious nerf at all (I know what you’re thinking, I’ll get on to that in a moment). It’s safe to say that this will make them a fair bit stronger than they already are.

The worst part is the patch does nothing for the classes build diversity – 30/x/x/20/10 bomb/nade/something else is probably the most powerful engineer build going, and barely anything about this actually changes. The vigor nerf is not all that bad (Can be worked around with swift on crit) and I (And several others) use an adept trait in the second slot in explosives anyway. All this change does is remove fringe builds which rely on incendiary being accessible.

I will agree that engis are just insane though – even when I play horribly I feel like I’m contributing way too much – so I suggest three nerfs instead of the rubbish they’re doing now.

• Incendiary Powder be an on-hit effect that recharges every 10 seconds in a similar way to venoms, sigil of doom/life leech, vitrue of justice, etc so that it can be countered
• Heal turret’s cast time be increased by 0.5 seconds so that it can be countered.
• Keep the vigor nerf, it’s good, dodge spamming is bad for the game.

Your Image just shows a Full Engi team. What proof is that? But to a certain extent, being an Engi myself. I agree with the 3 things you listed.

no – engi at top is barely viable

bunker engi gets destroyed by 2 decent burst players and brings no team value to achieve even that

condi engi gets hard countered by every braindead necro and warrior player

offensive power either deals no competetive damage or is as glasscannon as serker ele without the escapes / boons.

There are a few more hardcounters to the class depending on builds but overall its never an ez win unless you drop supply crate (which is just an unreasonable thing to do in 1v1)

RaynStargaze.6510:

no – engi at top is barely viable

bunker engi gets destroyed by 2 decent burst players and brings no team value to achieve even that

condi engi gets hard countered by every braindead necro and warrior player

offensive power either deals no competetive damage or is as glasscannon as serker ele without the escapes / boons.

There are a few more hardcounters to the class depending on builds but overall its never an ez win unless you drop supply crate (which is just an unreasonable thing to do in 1v1)

+10000000

Hawky.9306:

Writetyper.1985:

Engineers OP as kitten – can confirm. Conclusive evidence: http://i.imgur.com/uYMpKEu.jpg

In all seriousness, -snip-

Your Image just shows a Full Engi team. What proof is that? But to a certain extent, being an Engi myself. I agree with the 3 things you listed.

Nothing, it’s a joke. I’m joking. That’s why I prefaced the next paragraph with “in all seriousness” and overstated the proof part.

Nix.3152:

RaynStargaze.6510:

no – engi at top is barely viable

bunker engi gets destroyed by 2 decent burst players and brings no team value to achieve even that

condi engi gets hard countered by every braindead necro and warrior player

offensive power either deals no competetive damage or is as glasscannon as serker ele without the escapes / boons.

There are a few more hardcounters to the class depending on builds but overall its never an ez win unless you drop supply crate (which is just an unreasonable thing to do in 1v1)

+10000000

bring 2 bunker engi…you would need 4 burst ppl to kill them… bring 3 bunker engi you would need 6 burst players…. nice argument

to counter engi you need necro, so basically everyone should reroll necro or war…. nice logic
7
i can’t touch good engi on thief

RaynStargaze.6510:

no – engi at top is barely viable

bunker engi gets destroyed by 2 decent burst players and brings no team value to achieve even that

condi engi gets hard countered by every braindead necro and warrior player

offensive power either deals no competetive damage or is as glasscannon as serker ele without the escapes / boons.

There are a few more hardcounters to the class depending on builds but overall its never an ez win unless you drop supply crate (which is just an unreasonable thing to do in 1v1)

Yeah nah mate, bunker engi is probably the toughest bunker spec in the game, it’s just winning fights is more important than holding points so a guard with superior group heals and support goes better. It’ll take a while for 2 burst specs to kill one, they’ll probably get really low in the process, and 2 for 1 doesn’t seem like a fair trade to me.

I personally find that beating warrior on engi is a pretty even fight really, even with all the condi resist. It pretty much comes down to dodging pin down (hambow) or impale (condi). They’re very strong, don’t doubt that. Too strong however is something to debate. I don’t believe they are now, but I feel they will be post-patch.

Engis do have a good amount of control…. Thats my biggest gripe. It wasn’t too bad until immob stacking, but I faced an engi the other day and I couldn’t move.

That and all the god kitten knockdowns.

And the explosion spam…but thats just a screen clutter issue.

Yes right played Engies can be strong and annoying.

But what i really thinks needs to be nerfed is rooting.

Or at least let Stun Breakers take root from you.

Thats what I think makes some engineer builds rly OP,
the class itself is not though, Id even say its weak

Hammer Warriors/HS spam Thieves/MM heal necros are more annoying in my opinion.