Guild Wars 2

Hi ppl!

Lately, I find myself more and more getting insta-killed by engineers. I’m not really sure what they do, but I think they toss something at me and then bam dead.

No other class has been able to take me down that fast before, it’s like they unload a bunch of skills all within the exact same moment.

Just take a look at the screenshot, lol!

I got hit for a total of 182kittenage on my char within one second!
I got more than 3200 armor – no other hit, condition or anything had landed on me prior to this, I was about to run away from a point when this guys came by and smoked me in less than one second, lol!

I’m filing a bug report on this, since if this is an intended game mechanic, they may as well bury this game. I though thieves had insane burst, but they don’t even compare to this.

This is what you’re facing
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Five-Gauge-s-100nade-Guide/
It’s actually a lot more difficult to land then you think. If you avoid the Magnet Pull/Net Shot, etc this burst becomes infinitely more difficult to land, as it requires you to be inside the enemy’s character model. Retaliation also causes the Engi to burst himself into oblivion, so that’s also a good counter. Best advice I can give you is if you see an engi running straight towards you, it wouldn’t be a horrible idea to keep your distance lol

I’ve experienced a lot of burst in this game, but let me assure you, nothing can even compare to this – nothing. What happened here was instant death, no time to dodge, stunbreak – you name it. It was instant.

Then whoever did it must have skills far beyond mine, as I’ve had the combo miss quite a few times because of a mist form/elixir s, etc. Just read through the thread and see some of the disadvantages of the build. Other than that, I don’t think there’s much else I can say. Good luck!

that’s odd. i run with ~2900 armor and am surviving chaiths burst if i have my cds np. i drop from ~13.5k to ~3.5-4k but… this is more of a reaction time thing rather than anything else. and unlike backstab, you can see the animations going off. Run from massive amounts of exploding things…………

and i highly doubt (meaning i don’t believe it, period.) that there’s another engi as good at 100nades as chaith. so if i can live through his with ~300 less armor than you, you’re doing something wrong. sorry pal.

Landing bursts on competent enemies who know what you’re capable of are significantly harder. Often in paids, enemy teams have the fear of God in them for what your burst can do to them, and this forces them to be ultra defensive.

Get absolutely destroyed.

BTW, I tried to type 1 8 2 0 0 damage in my post above, but not even that will this forum allow, lol!

Project Shrine Maiden.9623:

you’re doing something wrong. sorry pal.

Quite possible, but in this case, the screenshot is accurate – that’s the amount of damage I took from this guy in an instant.

These seem like WvW numbers against a glass cannon, if it really was 3200 Armor something is out of whack. I’m pretty sure we’ve checked and Thief burst is still higher. That said, it’s the 100 Nades build as mentioned above. No idea if the Kit Refinement – Grenade Kit part is intended or not.

At least with thief burst I have a split second to react and break free.

Pretty hard to watch a marble sized asura engi for the cast animation and avoid the magnet pull. Even worse when its mayhem with mesmer clones/fiels and etc flying around.

I play the 100 nade build, yeah, I can burst you down in an instant, depending on the class. But I have to literally be INSIDE of you. It’s not the easiest thing to pull off. Also, I can do it from stealth, but it’s only 4 seconds, not as bad as a thief imo.

kirito.4138:

At least with thief burst I have a split second to react and break free.

Pretty hard to watch a marble sized asura engi for the cast animation and avoid the magnet pull. Even worse when its mayhem with mesmer clones/fiels and etc flying around.

Kirito-kun asuna ni tatsuketeiru kanai ka? Haiyaku nigette!

Anyway yea iit’s what i used on my engi when i use to play. While i say it is increadibly hard to land and requires me to put all my eggs in one basket if I miss then i’m left vulnerable with no escapes but if it hits then your dead.

Your screenshots show damage that occurred in the same minute, not the same second. It also shows 3 Grenade Barrages. A single Engi can only do 2 at a time.

The best counter for this is stability (and of course do not let the engineer get right on top of you). If you have stability and a ranged attack they will likely just run away (or die).

Sometimes those little Asurian engis can be an issue though, because you can’t see them behind the blades of grass until they are suddenly running between your legs and then -boom!

Also retaliation insta kills the engi.

Yasha.5963:

The best counter for this is stability (and of course do not let the engineer get right on top of you). If you have stability and a ranged attack they will likely just run away (or die).

Sometimes those little Asurian engis can be an issue though, because you can’t see them behind the blades of grass until they are suddenly running between your legs and then -boom!

I don’t see you having a problem with it when the engi shows up to back point to bail you out

Still nobody talks about the freaking HGH condi engies.

Do we really need to have rangers and eles ( those classes whose people love to whine about, after thieves and mesmers) nerfed to find out how RIDICOLOUSLY strong those are ?

I would rather talk about how bad is that engies need to build with granades to be good, but that’s another story.

OGDeadHead.8326:

I’m filing a bug report on this, since if this is an intended game mechanic, they may as well bury this game. I though thieves had insane burst, but they don’t even compare to this.

Hi OGDeadHead,

The screenshot you posted includes 19-20 hits of grenade barrage (depending on if you double counted one). This is at least two different occasions of you taking grenade barrage(s), or two different engineers barraging you. (Or you’ve simply exaggerated the damage for effect.)

In terms of sacrifice vs. gains, risk vs. reward, Engineer burst is balanced vs. other power burst builds. Sure, in the current incarnation of the game – burst abilities are quite potent, this is obvious. But let me explain exactly why the risk of sucking, and the sacrifices of a glass cannon engineer makes it so this kind of damage is justified.

I’ll start by explaining what it’s like to double grenade barrage someone. Have you ever watched anyone play those silly ‘Dance Dance Revolution’ games where every move is judged as a ‘PERFECT, GREAT, GOOD’ score based on how close the user input lined up with the mark? Maybe 40% of the time am I landing “PERFECT” 16/16 grenades when executing this combo. That’s a pretty low success rate! Maybe 30% of the time I’m landing 14/16 grenades. That’s a ‘GREAT’ score. The other 30%? This is the percentage where your net shot flies off into the horizon, your magnet sends your target teleporting around everywhere, and muscle memory lobs 16 grenades where your target used to stand. This is as ‘FAIL’ score. You are now up kitten creek without a paddle. Or disengage abilities.

Basically, your Engi burst damage output is actively rated on your positioning, focus, and how badly you want to bathe your target in their own blood. There is no ‘pressez les buttons’ from 900 range and shatter combo / steal combo for your guaranteed damage. (All these scenarios are assuming you did not combo into a dodge or defensive CD.) It’s like backstab only did max damage when you were perfectly 180’ degrees behind your enemy, and face-stabbing an enemy did nothing.

Toss in the scarcity of invisibility / movement skills / condi clearing – you still need to churn out the gibs every minute for your team to win matches.

With great power comes great responsibility, haha.

-5G

Chaith.8256:

OGDeadHead.8326:

I’m filing a bug report on this, since if this is an intended game mechanic, they may as well bury this game. I though thieves had insane burst, but they don’t even compare to this.

Hi OGDeadHead,

The screenshot you posted includes 19-20 hits of grenade barrage (depending on if you double counted one). This is at least two different occasions of you taking grenade barrage(s), or two different engineers barraging you. (Or you’ve simply exaggerated the damage for effect.)

In terms of sacrifice vs. gains, risk vs. reward, Engineer burst is balanced vs. other power burst builds. Sure, in the current incarnation of the game – burst abilities are quite potent, this is obvious. But let me explain exactly why the risk of sucking, and the sacrifices of a glass cannon engineer makes it so this kind of damage is justified.

I’ll start by explaining what it’s like to double grenade barrage someone. Have you ever watched anyone play those silly ‘Dance Dance Revolution’ games where every move is judged as a ‘PERFECT, GREAT, GOOD’ score based on how close the user input lined up with the mark? Maybe 40% of the time am I landing “PERFECT” 16/16 grenades when executing this combo. That’s a pretty low success rate! Maybe 30% of the time I’m landing 14/16 grenades. That’s a ‘GREAT’ score. The other 30%? This is the percentage where your net shot flies off into the horizon, your magnet sends your target teleporting around everywhere, and muscle memory lobs 16 grenades where your target used to stand. This is as ‘FAIL’ score. You are now up kitten creek without a paddle. Or disengage abilities.

Basically, your Engi burst damage output is actively rated on your positioning, focus, and how badly you want to bathe your target in their own blood. There is no ‘pressez les buttons’ from 900 range and shatter combo / steal combo for your guaranteed damage. (All these scenarios are assuming you did not combo into a dodge or defensive CD.) It’s like backstab only did max damage when you were perfectly 180’ degrees behind your enemy, and face-stabbing an enemy did nothing.

Toss in the scarcity of invisibility / movement skills / condi clearing – you still need to churn out the gibs every minute for your team to win matches.

With great power comes great responsibility, haha.

-5G

Now I don’t feel as bad about my own playing lol. Well put, sir.

Great response Chaith. OP, I’d recommend you try this build out. Nothing will teach you how to defeat it like learning it yourself. That’s the easiest way to l2p, and I do it anytime I run into a spec/combo that I don’t know how to counter

Choops.3710:

This is what you’re facing
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Five-Gauge-s-100nade-Guide/
It’s actually a lot more difficult to land then you think. If you avoid the Magnet Pull/Net Shot, etc this burst becomes infinitely more difficult to land, as it requires you to be inside the enemy’s character model. Retaliation also causes the Engi to burst himself into oblivion, so that’s also a good counter. Best advice I can give you is if you see an engi running straight towards you, it wouldn’t be a horrible idea to keep your distance lol

Told you these complaints were coming choops! Engi so OP needs nerfed now! hahahahah. JK JK… But see anyone can some how get away with calling a class/spec OP.

jportell.2197:

Choops.3710:

This is what you’re facing
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Five-Gauge-s-100nade-Guide/
It’s actually a lot more difficult to land then you think. If you avoid the Magnet Pull/Net Shot, etc this burst becomes infinitely more difficult to land, as it requires you to be inside the enemy’s character model. Retaliation also causes the Engi to burst himself into oblivion, so that’s also a good counter. Best advice I can give you is if you see an engi running straight towards you, it wouldn’t be a horrible idea to keep your distance lol

Told you these complaints were coming choops! Engi so OP needs nerfed now! hahahahah. JK JK… But see anyone can some how get away with calling a class/spec OP.

Don’t start in on me J, we were just beginning to make nice lol

I kinda knew I was gonna get some of these responses, lol! Well that’s fine, it’s what can be expected when you start a topic like this on these forums!

I’m not saying anything about the skill of the player that pulled this off on me, I take your word for it that this is hard to do and worthy of respect for a skilled player, no worries about that.

This was in spvp, and I’ve played a decent amount of spvp games to be sure of my statement that never before have I experienced a burst attack of this magnitude from any other class.

Was this a onetime deal? Maybe I experienced lag that I didn’t notice? Maybe something bugged? I don’t know. All I do know that for me it was instant death that I have never seen before.

Kudos to the player that pulled it off, I salute you!

“Kit Refinement” trait is really helpful in this build. When you change to grenade kit, it burst 3 bombs, while you can also turn to “Grenade Barrage” in the meantime.
To burst like that, you need to stand exactly where your enemy stands, then the bombs will all burst on him.

At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how ‘perfect’ one must be to land a massive 1hko burst.

1hko burst should simply not be in the game.

a perfect glass cannon fight should still last at least 10 seconds so both sides have the opportunity to react and introduce just a modicum of strategy.

I play the build from time to time. When it works it feels good to be on my engineer… when it doesn’t work I want to be on something that can then get the hell out of there

I mainly play thief… but the engi 100 nades, ele burst, warrior burst and even guardian burst all get a dusting off from time to time because it is fun to smash someone down form 100 to 0 in a second or two.

plasmacutter.2709:

1hko burst should simply not be in the game.

This is something I agree with, but it’s something that needs to be addressed among multiple classes at the same time. Thieves, Engis, Warriors, Eles, and Mesmers all to my knowledge have fantastic burst combos that can one shot someone in certain builds. Some of those builds are much more viable then others on the grand scale, but I don’t think anyone should be completely one shot.

I agree that 100 Nades is too much, but only if multiple other burst builds are too strong as well. If the devs decide that the other burst builds are fine, then since in my opinion the Engi one is inferior with all factors combined I’d consider it fine as well.

OGDeadHead.8326:

I kinda knew I was gonna get some of these responses, lol! Well that’s fine, it’s what can be expected when you start a topic like this on these forums!

I’m not saying anything about the skill of the player that pulled this off on me, I take your word for it that this is hard to do and worthy of respect for a skilled player, no worries about that.

This was in spvp, and I’ve played a decent amount of spvp games to be sure of my statement that never before have I experienced a burst attack of this magnitude from any other class.

Was this a onetime deal? Maybe I experienced lag that I didn’t notice? Maybe something bugged? I don’t know. All I do know that for me it was instant death that I have never seen before.

Kudos to the player that pulled it off, I salute you!

It’s also weird that you posted a screen shot that have 21 grenade barrage displayed.

The maximum grenade you can land with this combo is 16, so it’s pretty weird that you have 5 extra grenade around?

If you calculate the average of each grenade, and you remove the 5 extra, you find yourself at 13.1k damage. 5k damage less then what you said.

It’s just a lot less credible when you post erroneous things.

I thought it was 14 Grenades, since the Kit Refinement trait doesn’t appear to be affected by Grenadier. Normally it throws out 6 grenades, 2 extra from the Grenadier trait, so it’d be 8 + 6 = 14. I guess this was an assumption based on other threads though, am I wrong?

I thought too, but since Chaith said it was 16 :P

But I heard they changed it in a previous patch? So grenadier would affect grenade barrage? Not sure tho.

I didn’t take chance so I said 16.

Even the extremely talented players make mistakes, I won’t mention names but I had to teach a well known player the other day how Sigil cooldowns work. Definitely something that needs to be confirmed though, but I have a lot of respect for Chaith so I’ll assume it’s 16 for the time being.

Ayestes.1273:

I thought it was 14 Grenades, since the Kit Refinement trait doesn’t appear to be affected by Grenadier.

This is the problem, here. It seems to be widely accepted that grenadier does not boost kit refinement barrages. Grenadier does affect the amount of grenades thrown by kit refinement. Try it for yourself! It’s 6 without, and 8 with – both with grenade barrage, and.. kit refinement grenade barrage. They really have great synergy.

I’m glad you guys brought this up.

Very good to hear, I’m glad that’s cleared up.

It is just possible he copied and pasted the same number twice by accident. If you go through, certain numbers repeat themselves, which rarely happens in actual combat.

I’m not saying he did it on purpose, but if you make that kind of post and use a screenshot, at least double check it.

Don’t make 100nade build even stronger lol. 5 more grenade is a lot.

Yes +30% damage output makes quite a difference in terms of the balance. It easily explains why it looks bigger then most Thief burst rotations at first glance.

gkaare.8576:

Your screenshots show damage that occurred in the same minute, not the same second. It also shows 3 Grenade Barrages. A single Engi can only do 2 at a time.

Nope, an engi can do 3, Fall damage trait = Grenade Barrage, Tool Belt = Grenade Barrage, Equipping Nade kit = Grenade Barrage.

@OP are you a guardian by any chance? If so if you’re using a full on toughness build that’d be why you just died, otherwise you did -something- wrong because i’ve eaten the whole 3 nade combo thats become popular on Khylo on my server and managed to break away with 2k health while standing at ~3k armor and ~16k health.

I tried to make sure it was correct, but of course there could’ve been mistakes in the screenshot.

If I remove all duplicates, I get 15738 damage on a target with 3200+ armor – instantly (at least to me).
I think my character runs with aprox 15100 hp.

Edit: I play a ranger!

Durzlla.6295:

Nope, an engi can do 3, Fall damage trait = Grenade Barrage, Tool Belt = Grenade Barrage, Equipping Nade kit = Grenade Barrage.

Ah, that may be it. I ran away from the point jumping down a small ledge, and he followed me down there, so the Fall damage trait might be the explanation then?

So you are saying Chaitch “Five Gaugw” is carried?

By the way Durzlaa,

The fall grenade traits share the cooldown of refinement kit. So no, you can’t have 3 grenade barrage.

And OGDeadHead you just said you removed the duplicates, which are really easy to spot in your screen shot, but you still think he hit you with more then 16 grenades?

The fall trait had nothing to do with it.

Kardiamond.6952:

So you are saying Chaitch “Five Gaugw” is carried?

By the way Durzlaa,

The fall grenade traits share the cooldown of refinement kit. So no, you can’t have 3 grenade barrage.

And OGDeadHead you just said you removed the duplicates, which are really easy to spot in your screen shot, but you still think he hit you with more then 16 grenades?

The fall trait had nothing to do with it.

There are some 100nades engies who run the fall damage trait, especially if they’re coming from WvW. You can sometimes get it to proc by using jump shot down an incline. Combine that with kit refinement hitting at the end of your jump and you have a pretty decent skillshot burst.

Edit: and of course, 5 gauge is not “carried” by anyone. The build is admittedly more effective in quickly ending a 2v1 or 3v2 than it is in a 1v1, though.

OGDeadHead.8326:

I tried to make sure it was correct, but of course there could’ve been mistakes in the screenshot.

If I remove all duplicates, I get 15738 damage on a target with 3200+ armor – instantly (at least to me).
I think my character runs with aprox 15100 hp.

Edit: I play a ranger!

I’ll explain the accurate breakdown of the engineer’s instant burst you are struggling to get right, haha. (I’ve removed the duplicates of 482, 1034, 501, and 505.

This leaves the log including 16 grenades and 1 static discharge to a total of 17 hits. This is both realistic and accurate – a burst of 13,738. Please edit your post.

@Durzilla, The fall dmg trait & kit refine are confirmed in the live build to share a cooldown. Only 2 barrages are possible.

This damage is a culmination of 1) Kit Refinement active trait, a grenade barrage, and a static discharge trait- 3 sources, two of which are traited. Most of the things you are claiming like “They may as well bury this game” are just out of ignorance. I say this because this is just another power burst that you don’t understand YET how to avoid.

As a ranger when you get net shotted and the engineer walks inside you, you are going to either do one of 4 things to avoid it – Shortbow3, sword 2, sword 3, or lightning reflexes. If the engineer pulls you with magnet, dodge it. If you fail to dodge it, then you can rely on your ‘shared anguish’ traits, or ‘hide in plain sight’ to make him bursting you impossible.

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but.. l2p issue if you don’t use your tools! Best of luck next time you face a glass cannon engi.

Chaith.8256:

@Durzilla, The fall dmg trait & kit refine are confirmed in the live build to share a cooldown. Only 2 barrages are possible.

Ah, did not realize that. That is good to know.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Chaith.8256:

@Durzilla, The fall dmg trait & kit refine are confirmed in the live build to share a cooldown. Only 2 barrages are possible.

Ah, did not realize that. That is good to know.

So when Chaith say it, it’s ok, but I say it I’m wrong?!

Be kitten you NevirSayDie!

(Don’t worry I would have done the same :P)

Kardiamond.6952:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Chaith.8256:

@Durzilla, The fall dmg trait & kit refine are confirmed in the live build to share a cooldown. Only 2 barrages are possible.

Ah, did not realize that. That is good to know.

So when Chaith say it, it’s ok, but I say it I’m wrong?!

Be kitten you NevirSayDie!

(Don’t worry I would have done the same :P)

Lol sorry, somehow I didn’t even see that you had mentioned that already.

Chaith.8256:

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but.. l2p issue if you don’t use your tools! Best of luck next time you face a glass cannon engi.

Learning things everytime I play, I’m only at Avenger rank (from spvp only), so go figure. Still got lots of things to learn in contrast to many other folks here, I’m just a casual player.

Thing is though, this particular encounter didn’t leave me any time to “use my tools” – run away from the point and -bam- dead. In other words – no time to even react whatsoever.

OGDeadHead.8326:

I kinda knew I was gonna get some of these responses, lol! Well that’s fine, it’s what can be expected when you start a topic like this on these forums!

I’m not saying anything about the skill of the player that pulled this off on me, I take your word for it that this is hard to do and worthy of respect for a skilled player, no worries about that.

This was in spvp, and I’ve played a decent amount of spvp games to be sure of my statement that never before have I experienced a burst attack of this magnitude from any other class.

Was this a onetime deal? Maybe I experienced lag that I didn’t notice? Maybe something bugged? I don’t know. All I do know that for me it was instant death that I have never seen before.

Kudos to the player that pulled it off, I salute you!

Thieves burst can do the same type of damage, and is ALOT easier to land.
Currently, I only know one engi who does a really good job of landing his 1-shot grenade barrages. It is easy to avoid if you know what you’re looking for. The Magnet pull + net shot are good indicators of the incoming burst. If you see him coming for you, then quickly pop a stun/immob break and dodge or use an invuln skill. If you don’t have either of those, then try and dodge the net shot/magnet pull.

Either way, it is a PSI and this is not something that needs to be looked at, imo.

Remember that these glassy specs are able to be killed just as easily as they can kill, so it’s a tradeoff.

Don’t see what’s wrong with it.

Warrior bull charge HB can do it.

So can a shatter mesmer shattering during 2 on sword.

So can elementalist with earth.

Ah I didn’t know they were on the same CD, I never tested it just knew they both caused Grenade Barrage.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Hi ppl!

No other class has been able to take me down that fast before, it’s like they unload a bunch of skills all within the exact same moment.

Just take a look at the screenshot, lol!

I’m filing a bug report on this, since if this is an intended game mechanic, they may as well bury this game. I though thieves had insane burst, but they don’t even compare to this.

Just LOL. How about thief? Warrior? Mesmer? Engineers start to use some burst build and people start to freak out. Hey, wait a minute, this class is not supposed to have cool damage. Its easy to avoid I think if you are in 1v1, a lot of people dodged my pull or barrage, tho I’m not so good with it yet. Man up! And try to dodge.

I think no burst in this game is so sick, just quickness is.