Guild Wars 2

There is counter to all of them. Please stop complaining about it, it’s a learn to play issue

That aside I think their cool down is pretty low for what they offer , so what is “overpowered” is the fact they have really short cool down.

Yeah but what if I bring zero stun breaks, zero condi removal, and zero stability. What then!?

The argument isn’t about whether there’s counters.

Haven’t heard anyone complain about hammer 5 ring on guardians. But the other two have some bad mechanics to them.

Patchi.9061:

There is counter to all of them. Please stop complaining about it, it’s a learn to play issue

That aside I think their cool down is pretty low for what they offer , so what is “overpowered” is the fact they have really short cool down.

Slick shoes and Ward just waits out stability then GG. You think it’s hard to bait out cool downs on Hammer Guard or Cele Engi? LMAO.

Entangle and Fear me have EASIER counterplay such as getting condi cleansed by others. The complaint is Ward and Slick Shoes is harder to deal with for the same cool downs, why is it so hard to understand balancing?

And on that day, nothing was even mentioned about Cele/Rile Engi, Cele D/D Ele or Cele Warrior Shoutbow

Ring of warding is less a problem than slick shoes. Slick shoes all the engi has to do is throw nades at his feet and the only way out is teleports or stab. If you only have a stunbreak but it doesn’t give stab or a teleport you’re still shafted. Ring of warding is less of a problem because there is more risk involved, usually guards have to couple judges intervention with ring of warding for it to actually trap someone in it.

jportell.2197:

Ring of warding is less a problem than slick shoes. Slick shoes all the engi has to do is throw nades at his feet and the only way out is teleports or stab. If you only have a stunbreak but it doesn’t give stab or a teleport you’re still shafted. Ring of warding is less of a problem because there is more risk involved, usually guards have to couple judges intervention with ring of warding for it to actually trap someone in it.

You can CC the engi or better yet immobilize him. Or you can pay better attention while fighting an engi so you can kite when he uses slick shoes, or just hold still and block/evade/invuln/CC if he uses slick shoes after an immobilize. Frankly, if Slick Shoes was that broken, you wouldn’t see so many engis with Elixir S/EG. Ring of Warding and Entangle are fine as well. I think players don’t like these skills because only a few professions really care about their positioning, so some who don’t play these are too lazy to adapt.

Sorel.4870:

jportell.2197:

Ring of warding is less a problem than slick shoes. Slick shoes all the engi has to do is throw nades at his feet and the only way out is teleports or stab. If you only have a stunbreak but it doesn’t give stab or a teleport you’re still shafted. Ring of warding is less of a problem because there is more risk involved, usually guards have to couple judges intervention with ring of warding for it to actually trap someone in it.

You can CC the engi or better yet immobilize him. Or you can pay better attention while fighting an engi so you can kite when he uses slick shoes, or just hold still and block/evade/invuln/CC if he uses slick shoes after an immobilize. Frankly, if Slick Shoes was that broken, you wouldn’t see so many engis with Elixir S/EG. Ring of Warding and Entangle are fine as well. I think players don’t like these skills because only a few professions really care about their positioning, so some who don’t play these are too lazy to adapt.

I actually play one of the professions where positioning is eveverythin . And the number of engis running slick shoes over EG and elixir S is actually quite a few.

My only issue with entangle (or any immobilize) is the bug STILL exists where if you use a leap skill while in it or your in the air when you get hit by it your trapped in the air and cant use ANY skills. Even instant casts. Wiht something like entangle however. Thats a 100% death sentance for ANYONE.

My one beef with slick shoes is that it knocks you down even when you stand still which means you cant even block to avoid some of the damage. It is actually best used on other engis because of their lack of stability.

I think thats true what basket said. I really feel slick shoes should only have an effect on a moving target. It would still do its job either way. But as it is now unless you have a stun break that gives you stability at the same time theres no counterplay you can do to mitigate the effects..

I’ve been using engi for months and me personally don’t use slick shoes. Why? Simple, it’s not as useful as Elixir S. While it does give you a few moments to hit a player, it certainly is not a game deciding factor in a pvp, least not for me, i just take it and dodge away or just block. I prefer elixir S because once you are down, you can bet your kitten you will get stomped, and also for the disengage utility of invisibility, it also saves peeps from getting stomped.

Ps- It’s good because it shows how a well timed stomp can completely turn around a match real quickly, i love it.

Problem with Elixir S is you usually end up losing the point if you use it as a stun breaker whereas slick shoes also has the advantage of being a very short cooldown stun break that won’t cause you to get decapped in a 1 v 1 situation. They both have their plus and minuses but if slick shoes wouldn’t perma knock you down without stability I fell less people would complain.

If someone manages to catch you with ring of warding you deserve to get kitten d by the entire enemy team.

Patchi.9061:

There is counter to all of them. Please stop complaining about it, it’s a learn to play issue

That aside I think their cool down is pretty low for what they offer , so what is “overpowered” is the fact they have really short cool down.

Are you sure you’ve seen the cooldown on Ring of Warding? That thing is far from short.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

And on that day, nothing was even mentioned about Cele Warrior Shoutbow

Because shoutbow is bad and bad is bad.

BlackTruth.6813:

Patchi.9061:

There is counter to all of them. Please stop complaining about it, it’s a learn to play issue

That aside I think their cool down is pretty low for what they offer , so what is “overpowered” is the fact they have really short cool down.

Slick shoes and Ward just waits out stability then GG. You think it’s hard to bait out cool downs on Hammer Guard or Cele Engi? LMAO.

Entangle and Fear me have EASIER counterplay such as getting condi cleansed by others. The complaint is Ward and Slick Shoes is harder to deal with for the same cool downs, why is it so hard to understand balancing?

AOE stunbreak is present. Mesmers and guards just dont use it for various reasons.

Hey, this game is based upon effect and countereffect.

If you fail to add condition cleanse to your build, you deserve to lose to conditions
If you fail to add sufficient armor rating and or protection or evasion to your build, you deserve to die to direct damage
If you fail to add sufficient amounts of stunbreaks, or kite when against classes with spammy stun attacks, then you deserve to be CCd
If you fail to acknowledge that all of the aforementioned scenarios can be, almost in their entirety, be countered by building correctly, then you deserve to lose.

Prysin.8542:

BlackTruth.6813:

Patchi.9061:

There is counter to all of them. Please stop complaining about it, it’s a learn to play issue

That aside I think their cool down is pretty low for what they offer , so what is “overpowered” is the fact they have really short cool down.

Slick shoes and Ward just waits out stability then GG. You think it’s hard to bait out cool downs on Hammer Guard or Cele Engi? LMAO.

Entangle and Fear me have EASIER counterplay such as getting condi cleansed by others. The complaint is Ward and Slick Shoes is harder to deal with for the same cool downs, why is it so hard to understand balancing?

AOE stunbreak is present. Mesmers and guards just dont use it for various reasons.

Hey, this game is based upon effect and countereffect.

If you fail to add condition cleanse to your build, you deserve to lose to conditions
If you fail to add sufficient armor rating and or protection or evasion to your build, you deserve to die to direct damage
If you fail to add sufficient amounts of stunbreaks, or kite when against classes with spammy stun attacks, then you deserve to be CCd
If you fail to acknowledge that all of the aforementioned scenarios can be, almost in their entirety, be countered by building correctly, then you deserve to lose.

AoE stunbreak won’t affect Entangle, Slick Shoes, or Ring of Warding.

The Guardian just takes AoE stability in place of AoE stunbreak, lmao. Which actually does many amazing things. Like escaping Ring and Slick Shoes, and reviving, stomping.

And Mesmer’s Stunbreak Mantra could be alright, but Portal and having better personal survivability takes precedence.

Chaith.8256:

Prysin.8542:

BlackTruth.6813:

Patchi.9061:

There is counter to all of them. Please stop complaining about it, it’s a learn to play issue

That aside I think their cool down is pretty low for what they offer , so what is “overpowered” is the fact they have really short cool down.

Slick shoes and Ward just waits out stability then GG. You think it’s hard to bait out cool downs on Hammer Guard or Cele Engi? LMAO.

Entangle and Fear me have EASIER counterplay such as getting condi cleansed by others. The complaint is Ward and Slick Shoes is harder to deal with for the same cool downs, why is it so hard to understand balancing?

AOE stunbreak is present. Mesmers and guards just dont use it for various reasons.

Hey, this game is based upon effect and countereffect.

If you fail to add condition cleanse to your build, you deserve to lose to conditions
If you fail to add sufficient armor rating and or protection or evasion to your build, you deserve to die to direct damage
If you fail to add sufficient amounts of stunbreaks, or kite when against classes with spammy stun attacks, then you deserve to be CCd
If you fail to acknowledge that all of the aforementioned scenarios can be, almost in their entirety, be countered by building correctly, then you deserve to lose.

AoE stunbreak won’t affect Entangle, Slick Shoes, or Ring of Warding.

The Guardian just takes AoE stability in place of AoE stunbreak, lmao. Which actually does many amazing things. Like escaping Ring and Slick Shoes, and reviving, stomping.

And Mesmer’s Stunbreak Mantra could be alright, but Portal and having better personal survivability takes precedence.

you see, you make a CHOICE and that CHOICE has an effect.

Example:
If i build my ranger with zerk LB in mind i got several options, all of which has several outcomes.

I can do 62600 and have more armor and passive condi-cleanse with lower damage output
I can do 66020 and have zero condi cleanse and massive damage output
I can do 60260 and have active condi cleanse and medium damage output
I can do 04460 and have active condition cleanse, more armor and unreliable spike damage

Either choice i make have an undesirable side effect. You compromise.

This translates into a collective choice for a team, do we all build for individual sustain through a more balanced build in for all our members, or do we have one player which will have a weakness that we all gotta cover?

This is your choice as a team, but also as an individual. So Chaith, knowing you are an experienced PvP player, please tell me, if you got low stability uptime or few stunbreaks or low cleansing or, all of these. Then shouldn’t there be a little alarm saying “i should probably not enter a fight against this profession without help”??

I do this mistake all the time, i get greedy, knowing full well what the limitations of my chosen build is. Sure it is easy for me to say “i shouldn’t charge in head first against prof X”. But i get greedy, i get narrow sighted and do it either way, knowing how stupid it is.
Why do i do this? Because i am human, i make mistakes. So do you, so do everyone else.

However MISTAKES is not what this game should be balanced against.
Entangle, Fear, Slickshoes, Ring/line of warding – all of these have COUNTERS. If they pose such a threat, simply BUILD against them.

Infact, it is just as easy to counter all of the above mentioned skills, as it is to counter longbow rangers. However it comes at a cost. So either one build against ones fears problems and open up for new problems, or one accepts ones limitations and admit that “i need help”.

It is that simple. When in doubt, bring a friend.

Prysin.8542:

Chaith.8256:

Prysin.8542:

BlackTruth.6813:

Patchi.9061:

There is counter to all of them. Please stop complaining about it, it’s a learn to play issue

That aside I think their cool down is pretty low for what they offer , so what is “overpowered” is the fact they have really short cool down.

Slick shoes and Ward just waits out stability then GG. You think it’s hard to bait out cool downs on Hammer Guard or Cele Engi? LMAO.

Entangle and Fear me have EASIER counterplay such as getting condi cleansed by others. The complaint is Ward and Slick Shoes is harder to deal with for the same cool downs, why is it so hard to understand balancing?

AOE stunbreak is present. Mesmers and guards just dont use it for various reasons.

Hey, this game is based upon effect and countereffect.

If you fail to add condition cleanse to your build, you deserve to lose to conditions
If you fail to add sufficient armor rating and or protection or evasion to your build, you deserve to die to direct damage
If you fail to add sufficient amounts of stunbreaks, or kite when against classes with spammy stun attacks, then you deserve to be CCd
If you fail to acknowledge that all of the aforementioned scenarios can be, almost in their entirety, be countered by building correctly, then you deserve to lose.

AoE stunbreak won’t affect Entangle, Slick Shoes, or Ring of Warding.

The Guardian just takes AoE stability in place of AoE stunbreak, lmao. Which actually does many amazing things. Like escaping Ring and Slick Shoes, and reviving, stomping.

And Mesmer’s Stunbreak Mantra could be alright, but Portal and having better personal survivability takes precedence.

you see, you make a CHOICE and that CHOICE has an effect.

Example:
If i build my ranger with zerk LB in mind i got several options, all of which has several outcomes.

I can do 62600 and have more armor and passive condi-cleanse with lower damage output
I can do 66020 and have zero condi cleanse and massive damage output
I can do 60260 and have active condi cleanse and medium damage output
I can do 04460 and have active condition cleanse, more armor and unreliable spike damage

Either choice i make have an undesirable side effect. You compromise.

This translates into a collective choice for a team, do we all build for individual sustain through a more balanced build in for all our members, or do we have one player which will have a weakness that we all gotta cover?

This is your choice as a team, but also as an individual. So Chaith, knowing you are an experienced PvP player, please tell me, if you got low stability uptime or few stunbreaks or low cleansing or, all of these. Then shouldn’t there be a little alarm saying “i should probably not enter a fight against this profession without help”??

I do this mistake all the time, i get greedy, knowing full well what the limitations of my chosen build is. Sure it is easy for me to say “i shouldn’t charge in head first against prof X”. But i get greedy, i get narrow sighted and do it either way, knowing how stupid it is.
Why do i do this? Because i am human, i make mistakes. So do you, so do everyone else.

However MISTAKES is not what this game should be balanced against.
Entangle, Fear, Slickshoes, Ring/line of warding – all of these have COUNTERS. If they pose such a threat, simply BUILD against them.

Infact, it is just as easy to counter all of the above mentioned skills, as it is to counter longbow rangers. However it comes at a cost. So either one build against ones fears problems and open up for new problems, or one accepts ones limitations and admit that “i need help”.

It is that simple. When in doubt, bring a friend.

This post is next-level .. I simply said Guardian’s AoE stunbreak doesn’t even succeed at building to counter the things you said it does. As with all simple break-stuns. Gotta get dat secondary stab effects, or displacements to escape Slick Shoes or Ring

Well you know slick shoes is really our only good gadget we have the others are very meh

OP tries to put 3 different skills in the same group because 2 are balanced and 1 is not. So that way he tried to falsely claim that slick shoes is a l2p problem. Let’s put in the same group orange, apple and watermelon. Orange and apple are small so watermelon must be small too……

Entangle: 1 dodge can avoid the skill completely. It has a long cast time with obvious animation. Even if you get hit 1 condi clear can save you.

Ring of Warding has a long cast. For the guard to catch you they will need to use JI. Even if you get trapped inside you can do a dodge roll inside the circle.

Slick shoes: unblockable, you cannot dodge the oil pools, it is easy for the engi to do a circle around specially with super speed and people fighting in a node. Has no cast time.

xDudisx.5914:

OP tries to put 3 different skills in the same group because 2 are balanced and 1 is not. So that way he tried to falsely claim that slick shoes is a l2p problem. Let’s put in the same group orange, apple and watermelon. Orange and apple are small so watermelon must be small too……

Entangle: 1 dodge can avoid the skill completely. It has a long cast time with obvious animation. Even if you get hit 1 condi clear can save you.

Ring of Warding has a long cast. For the guard to catch you they will need to use JI. Even if you get trapped inside you can do a dodge roll inside the circle.

Slick shoes: unblockable, you cannot dodge the oil pools, it is easy for the engi to do a circle around specially with super speed and people fighting in a node. Has no cast time.

Sorry but l2p.

Slick Shoes is a superior utility skill. Why so? Engineers rely on utilities to win. It’s part of their mechanics: not only these utilities are FAR better than the ones the other professions have, they also have a secondary skill attached to them.

Noone questions the fact that engineer’s utilities MUST be better than other classes’, just like noone questions the fact that thief’s weapon skills must not be too good (since they are spammable) or that warrior weapon skills must deal extreme damage (since they don’t have many other things to rely on). Take Tool Kit for example: it’s hands down the best utility skill of the game: a short CD block, an AoE cripple, a single target projectile finisher damaging cripple wrench, a damaging melee skill that applies confusion, and a 1200-range unblockable pull.

Sure, some players would like to see minor changes to the TK (to the block mainly), but even if it does get nerfed it would still be a HUGE deal better than every other utilities in the game, but that doesn’t mean it’s OP, it just means that the profession is balanced around powerful utilities (just like an engineer: bring the right tools for the job).

It does make the balance for engineer difficult: since the game came out, kits was the best option for engineers, since they brought so much. Slick Shoes is the first EVER gadget to be used in competitive pvp. Just think that instead of Slick Shoes, I usually use EG.

Slick Shoes: a long duration AoE CC, possibly one of the best CC in the game. A short CD stun-breaker that increases speed.

EG: The best AA for a condi engi, poison application in a spray, massive condi cleanse to your allies in a spray (this skill alone makes EG great in team fights), a decent-damage leap that gives you superior mobility AND a blast finisher on a 15s CD (how insane is that?), a short CD AoE field that heals you and your allies, gives you regen, cures a condition, AND is a lighting field, allowing you to cure one more condition on yourself with Throw Wrench, which is huge for engineer whose main weakness is condition and last but not least a short-CD stun breaks that gives you YET another regen (scaling with cele amulet, of course). (edit: oh yeah, and that useless skill #2 that really needs to see its velocity increased)

A lot of engineers, myself included, prefer EG over Slick Shoes, since it brings SO MUCH to the table. If Slick Shoes was OP to the point it would hinders build diversity, I would say it needs a nerf, but it doesn’t so let us use our only good gadget!

tldr Engineer’s utilities are MEANT to be better than other professions’. Slick Shoes is good but balanced, it’s the only viable gadget, and comparing it to other skills on other professions makes no sense.

Larynx.2453:

Yeah but what if I bring zero stun breaks, zero condi removal, and zero stability. What then!?

Then you come on the forum and complain, obviously. That’s what the pvp forums are for.

Of course an argument can be made that the game is pretty kitten bland and restricted if you need to bring all of that just to not get facerolled. For most professions that’s all their utility skills set, with no opportunity to bring something with a bit of flavor.

Terrahero.9358:

Larynx.2453:

Yeah but what if I bring zero stun breaks, zero condi removal, and zero stability. What then!?

Then you come on the forum and complain, obviously. That’s what the pvp forums are for.

Of course an argument can be made that the game is pretty kitten bland and restricted if you need to bring all of that just to not get facerolled. For most professions that’s all their utility skills set, with no opportunity to bring something with a bit of flavor.

But duuuuuuuude, why do I have to slot Lightning Relflexes while I could use Zephyr and pew pew supersupersupersupersuper fast!

Seriously though, I think defensive abilities, stun breakers in particular, give the most flavor to the game. Mesmers do not only use Blink because it’s powerful: they use it because it’s fun!

@Sorel

You posting a wall of text that says nothing doesn’t prove anything. People defending slick shoes are the ones that need to l2p without broken skills.

If everything was perfect and not in need of chances then the game would be the same as 2.5 years ago. Slick shoes is over powered and has little to no counter. Even before the buff to slick shoes celestial rifle engi was consider overpowered. The change just made it even more op.

Larynx.2453:

Yeah but what if I bring zero stun breaks, zero condi removal, and zero stability. What then!?

Then that’s actually your fault.. Every build in Conquest should atleast have 1 condi removal and/or stunbreak.

You can’t expect going to war without a weapon and ask the enemy to change their way of warfare for you :>

Slick shoes is in a completely different league to entangle and guard “ring”. Guard ring has a huge slow animation and only knocks you don if you try and enter leave the ring, entangle is a bit faster but there are many ways out of it (condi cleans, ports, blind ranger, dodge rangers inevitable follow up rapid shot-or interrupt/blind it, use an invun- so easy to mitigate).

Slick shoes- does it even have an animation? Suddenly there is just circles on the ground and you fall over. The only way to avoid it is stability or range.

Imagine if entangle was slick shoes. Wow. Give that to rangers and thief would be no more.

Yasha.5963:

Slick shoes is in a completely different league to entangle and guard “ring”. Guard ring has a huge slow animation and only knocks you don if you try and enter leave the ring, entangle is a bit faster but there are many ways out of it (condi cleans, ports, blind ranger, dodge rangers inevitable follow up rapid shot-or interrupt/blind it, use an invun- so easy to mitigate).

Slick shoes- does it even have an animation? Suddenly there is just circles on the ground and you fall over. The only way to avoid it is stability or range.

Imagine if entangle was slick shoes. Wow. Give that to rangers and thief would be no more.

that last sentence of yours really make me excited to see what kinda skills druid spec for rangers gonna have. imagine if….. huehuehue

Slickshoes is really way worse than entangle or ring of warding, most of the time i know when the guards going to use rign and when he does i can just drop black powder and im fine. Entangle i can get out of it using a teleport or infiltrators sig or steal. Slick shoes the only one i can use is shadowstep because infil sig and steal will still get me knocked back.

Today i was up against two engies one knocks me down while the other uses slick shoes so i teleport away, i push one of them away and start to get him down he pops slick shoes again b4 my teleport comes back up and im shafted…srsly needs to have the cd increased and not affect ppl standing still