Guild Wars 2

Hey Dear community , I would hope that many people reach this message and I hope many people take part of this discussion.
Since Anet stated to create an E-sports game many people were Thrilled and after a year of waiting PvP seems to me , more or less dead .

Since I read the Thread " PvP 3 wishes -what do you want most in PvP?" I saw many people wishing for better balance , more game modes and build choices , I totally agree on those wishes but here is my question to you as community and to you as Dev .

How do u think gw2 can get An Esports Team and why didnt anet take ideas from gw1

Gw1 had GvG what was really Great to watch and easy to take part of , Many people stated that You didnt took any aspect from Gw1 into gw2 ( This only goes for the PvP Part) Why didnt you take the stabel plattform into gw2 ?

GvG had all u needed , Spectator mode , Prizes to fight for , Prestige , Balance more or less and Everyone had fun while playing it . It Wasnt every time the same map so teams had created different tatics but the core of the maps of the same .

Where Were your problems in the Developing process to take Heros acent and GvG into Gw2 ?Did u even consider that ?
Every time gw1 has the double fame weekends in gw1 many people play your old game rather then your new , Even Tonight u will see many teams in the HoH and I My biggest wish would be that 1 Dev just joins my team for tonight . We are playing contagion tonight and It would be a pleassure if 1 of you would join us just to have some fun .

So my actually question to you community is , What do u think , had GvG esports potential , do u think gw2 can get into the e-sports scene by old gw1 ideas ? Or is a-net on the right way and they should continue on their path

As someone with Dev in their name I feel that this is directed at me, and I have to say I do think A-net is on the right coarse. While I do greatly miss a lot of aspects in gw1 this game is not at the point yet where it is anywhere near a finished product.

its been stated several times that GvG turned into Turtling until the end of the match when everything would be decided. I think the Devs do plan on bringing back GvG but are struggling with a way or idea on how to make it more action packed.

I don’t think we will see a death match any time soon because you could have a team of just all theives run and hide constantly, which would be awful.

I think the big balance patch at the end of June will give us a good idea of how the direction of the game is going.

toooo much esport – not enough fun

Arenanet, just like Gw2, has potential. The problem is, they are too much into the e-sport thing, catering to 8 teams and 6 shoutcasters, ignoring the rest of us.

Heroes’ Ascent was the best pvp mode in an MMO, lots of gamemodes, tactics, and the feeling in the Hall of Heroes, that just can’t be replaced.

Make conquest e-sports if you want, maybe change it to guilds only, because it’s already happening.

But we need HA, a place that is rewarding, fun to play, has progress and both casuals and hardcore players play.

The problem is, GW1 seems to be a forbidden word.

I often wonder what criteria people use to deem GW2 pvp ‘dead’.

I rarely wait in solo-Q more than 2 minutes for a fight. No other game ever gave me that kind of accessibility.

So, does it mean “I stopped playing because I’ve pewpew’d for months and have nothing tangible to show for it”? Meaning no uber gear, no OMG-I’m-an-internet-hero status/recognition? To me, that’s an indication that people have a toxic need to play full time, and need the game to nurture that desire. Has very little to do with PvP gaming itself..

Granted, I don’t get ‘E-Sports’. I find commentated fights obnoxious, and play for a personal feeling of challenged-improved-succeeded satisfaction, and couldn’t care less if the internet shows others how awesome I am.

Likely, I’m just ‘different’..

Punkins.2087:

I rarely wait in solo-Q more than 2 minutes for a fight. No other game ever gave me that kind of accessibility.

Pretty much every small-scale PvP game I’ve ever played allows me to do this in less than 2 minutes as a solo player.

Punkins.2087:

I often wonder what criteria people use to deem GW2 pvp ‘dead’.

I rarely wait in solo-Q more than 2 minutes for a fight. No other game ever gave me that kind of accessibility.

So, does it mean “I stopped playing because I’ve pewpew’d for months and have nothing tangible to show for it”? Meaning no uber gear, no OMG-I’m-an-internet-hero status/recognition? To me, that’s an indication that people have a toxic need to play full time, and need the game to nurture that desire. Has very little to do with PvP gaming itself..

Granted, I don’t get ‘E-Sports’. I find commentated fights obnoxious, and play for a personal feeling of challenged-improved-succeeded satisfaction, and couldn’t care less if the internet shows others how awesome I am.

Likely, I’m just ‘different’..

The fact that they have to merge solo-q into organized team matchmaker already proves how dead pvp is.
There is not nearly enough team for the organized team to fight with.
They cannot make TPVP solo-q like RA back in GW1 because not enough people.
They also cannot make TPVP team like TA back in GW1 because not enough people.

Does that rings any bell?

once you add in better game play and rewards people will flock to pvp like they did in gw1

Just think of it like this: no mmo ever made it to be esport. Gw1 was nothing. Small community of people that really loved it, but never made it big for whatever reasons. Biggest thing to esport was WoW but it failed.
Will gw2 become first big esport mmo? Wait and find out, cause nobody know future.

Duncanmix.5238:

Just think of it like this: no mmo ever made it to be esport. Gw1 was nothing. Small community of people that really loved it, but never made it big for whatever reasons. Biggest thing to esport was WoW but it failed.
Will gw2 become first big esport mmo? Wait and find out, cause nobody know future.

The entire scene for esports as a whole was different when GW1 was akittens peak. I don’t think that you can draw the conclusion that no mmo will ever be an esport.

This game honestly needed a year extra in development before release, at a minimum. Of course, in the real world, money talks so that is just wishful thinking on my part.

The thing is gw2 pvp is played by what, 10% maybe 20% of gw2 entire (remaining) playerbase ? Most people play pve or wvw and maybe, when stars align, some pvp.

Let’s be real, gw2 pve and wvw are a success, they bring players, money from the cashshop and some new copies sold. Pvp it’s a fail, not a complete fail, some people still play it and maybe with the private arena’s they will make some money, but for some reasons it was played a lot in the begining and eventually most people stopped playing it.

And now there is this weird idea that because we have spectator mode and some true spvp believers make some tournies it will flourish and become esport, without fixing of course, why people stopped playing it.

So forget balance, forget new modes, forget gvg, forget rewards, forget all those amazing mechanics (clones, near-permastealth, teleports), forget the aoe spam/particle festival, forget warriors, etc.; gw2 spvp development team proudly presents esports hype.

I wouldn’t expect Conquest to grow big on it’s own. There were plenty of people who didn’t play GvG in GW1. Not every format is for everyone, even if they brought GvG that would hold true. I also think GvG likely wouldn’t of taken off as well for as long if it was all the players had. Only some had it in them to play only 1/2 formats for the lifespan of gw1…though I doubt any really did just 2.

I wasn’t a fan of GvG in gw1. I found HA more interesting.
As far as e-sports I think it was relatively close but at the time that whole “e-sports” idea wasn’t really a factor. GW1 was kind of a pioneer imo.
Foefire kind of solves the old GvG issues by capture points serving to keep things rolling since people can win through them. If they brought back GvG and implemented capture points to prevent staleness maybe the format could work out better.

Conquest is fine. Just wish there was something to break the monotony inb4kegbrawl.
Have to take breaks from the game itself because if all i want to do is pvp I get burnt out on the 1 format with my 1-2 builds.

ANet is on the right track. People that promote GW1 GvG are basking in nostalgia. Just watch any GW1 GvG video to see what it was really like.

Don’t expect GW2 to magically turn into a popular eSport overnight. If it’s a good game and it’s enjoyable to watch, it will grow over time. For the players, there needs to be a reason to compete and it needs to be balanced and diverse. Balance and diversity will come as ANet fixes bad traits and tweaks good ones. Getting people to play isn’t as cut-and-dry.

For the viewers, there needs to be a way to tell who’s ahead with the possibility of that changing throughout the course of the game. Conquest does an excellent job of that with the score system and point control. In addition, there needs to be insight each play. That’s currently a problem due to spell effects, characters jumping around, and camera usage.

WoW arena did poorly as an esport because it was hard to tell what was happening, nothing consequential happened until someone suddenly died and the match was effectively over, and there was terrible downtime between matches.

Exedore.6320:

ANet is on the right track. People that promote GW1 GvG are basking in nostalgia. Just watch any GW1 GvG video to see what it was really like.

Don’t expect GW2 to magically turn into a popular eSport overnight. If it’s a good game and it’s enjoyable to watch, it will grow over time. For the players, there needs to be a reason to compete and it needs to be balanced and diverse. Balance and diversity will come as ANet fixes bad traits and tweaks good ones. Getting people to play isn’t as cut-and-dry.

For the viewers, there needs to be a way to tell who’s ahead with the possibility of that changing throughout the course of the game. Conquest does an excellent job of that with the score system and point control. In addition, there needs to be insight each play. That’s currently a problem due to spell effects, characters jumping around, and camera usage.

WoW arena did poorly as an esport because it was hard to tell what was happening, nothing consequential happened until someone suddenly died and the match was effectively over, and there was terrible downtime between matches.

This

Exedore.6320:

ANet is on the right track. People that promote GW1 GvG are basking in nostalgia. Just watch any GW1 GvG video to see what it was really like.

Don’t expect GW2 to magically turn into a popular eSport overnight. If it’s a good game and it’s enjoyable to watch, it will grow over time. For the players, there needs to be a reason to compete and it needs to be balanced and diverse. Balance and diversity will come as ANet fixes bad traits and tweaks good ones. Getting people to play isn’t as cut-and-dry.

I play GW1 and GW2 regularly, so I can assure you that I’m not “basking in nostalgia” seeing as I can directly compare both games. I also don’t see your point about poorly made youtube videos being representative of gameplay. In that case I could post a thousand links here of boring as hell gameplay from GW2. There are a few things GW2 has done right, like an open world, jumping, more responsive combat system and dodging, but I don’t think we can sit back and say it’s all plain sailing from here.

Exedore.6320:

In addition, there needs to be insight each play. That’s currently a problem due to spell effects, characters jumping around, and camera usage.

How exactly do you propose ANET fix these problems? They said they’ll implement culling, but how will the system work in practice? They haven’t said anything to us have they, other than that they’re working on it. Jumping around? What do you want them to do about that? Camera usage? Do you seriously believe that the only problems with getting insight into GW2 PvP are particle affects, jumping and camera positioning?

The fundamental gameplay won’t change. Even if you subscribe to the belief that the hugely chaotic gameplay due to the number of gap closers, teleports, evades, mass AoE etc etc isn’t a problem, there is still little opportunity for insight in play. What insight is there to be gained from watching two bunkers fight it out, or watching a frankly basic mechanic of portal + illusion of life? Battles are too short to talk about what teams may ‘try’ to do because by the time the casters are done talking, one team would probably be dead due to the fact that DPS >> sustain in all areas of the game.

Conditions come down to frankly a spam fest, it isn’t an issue of “oh well I’ll cover X condition with sets Y and Z” its “Let’s just get as many on point as possible because they can remove 4, 5, 6, 7+ conditions or more in a single CD cycle”. The only class you can currently effectively cover conditions is against the warrior and it is getting buffed to bring it in line with the other classes. Explain to me how having less viable ways of using mechanics is a step up from GW1? Your only option is pressure. Fair enough if they had replaced old strategies with new strategies, but clearly they haven’t. The most complex thing you could do is probably spam conditions, fear into a crowd and then epidemic.

What about the elite system? Half of the elites in every class are completely non-viable. In GW1 having useless elites wasn’t a problem because there were dozens upon dozens of them and even when balance was particularly bad, you still had a few to choose from. Sure, there was a meta just like there will be in any game, but even then you could run a cheese build and maybe surprise people, especially if your overall team skill was high. In GW2 the few that we do have are often times rarely useful outside of PvE and to a lesser extent, WvW.

In general, the emphasis on esports annoys me. We have a situation where the game is not even ready for casual play, just look at the matchmaking which is only now, so many months after release, being addressed. Precious development time is being spent on catering to literally a handful of casters and a few dozen or so teams. The developers can do what they want, but I don’t have to agree with it.

This game needs a whole lot of work yet and frankly until the balance patch I’m not going to say anything positive without good reason, certainly not that we are going in the right direction.

I still play this game. I’m just someone who is going to wait and see before singing their praises, which, I believe, is perhaps the most reasonable option.

Paradoxine.8192:

The fundamental gameplay won’t change. Even if you subscribe to the belief that the hugely chaotic gameplay due to the number of gap closers, teleports, evades, mass AoE etc etc isn’t a problem, there is still little opportunity for insight in play. What insight is there to be gained from watching two bunkers fight it out, or watching a frankly basic mechanic of portal + illusion of life? Battles are too short to talk about what teams may ‘try’ to do because by the time the casters are done talking, one team would probably be dead due to the fact that DPS >> sustain in all areas of the game.

Conditions come down to frankly a spam fest, it isn’t an issue of “oh well I’ll cover X condition with sets Y and Z” its “Let’s just get as many on point as possible because they can remove 4, 5, 6, 7+ conditions or more in a single CD cycle”. The only class you can currently effectively cover conditions is against the warrior and it is getting buffed to bring it in line with the other classes. Explain to me how having less viable ways of using mechanics is a step up from GW1? Your only option is pressure. Fair enough if they had replaced old strategies with new strategies, but clearly they haven’t. The most complex thing you could do is probably spam conditions, fear into a crowd and then epidemic.

I agree with those parts so much! GW2 PvP is a game of spam. Spam AoEs, spam conditions, spam evades, spam dodges, spam boons, spam particles effects, spam distracting kitten on the screen (mesmers are the worse)

This is chaotic, unreadable, unplayable and completely unfun to watch.

if s1 needs goodies 4 pvp, fine i don’t care. but don’t touch full immediate access to best pvp gear. thats what put gw2 pvp squarely in “all about skills” box.

whatever rewards – non pvp gear.

ps: i dont care much about esports. dunno why so many ppl are hyped about it. is everyone 24/7 pro players, planning to live off sponsored teams? i hope not, that would leave no place for gamers.

If I didn’t think this game had a chance, I’d probably be dominating the Smite scene right now.

Exedore.6320:

ANet is on the right track.

Oh, so that’s why the majority of people who played GW2 left…
Games grow over time if they are relatively unheard of or have tons of hidden potential…
GW2 is the exact opposite.

It had MILLIONS of people playing the game on launch, purching the B2P game WITH NO MMO COMPETITION. Yet the population tanked…
It had dozens of extremely qualified esports teams lining up to play it, teams who own the game. Yet they left saying the gameplay was just badly made…

I mean, just a feeling, but I don’t think that’s the right track….

Jumper.9482:

If I didn’t think this game had a chance, I’d probably be dominating the Smite scene right now.

Ehh, that just leaves more food for me.

It’s definitely on the right way, but the lack of incentive to play this game is not existing. I’d rather play some fractals instead of the same map for 3 days in a row.

Devs know that the game is an aoe and condition spam with a lack of variety, too fast and too chaotic to cast properly.
But what can they do, it’s the core, aoe and condition spam aren’t some minor mistakes, they are gw2 core, u cant get rid of it. Better to develop gw3 and start fresh.

Baldric.6781:

Devs know that the game is an aoe and condition spam with a lack of variety, too fast and too chaotic to cast properly.
But what can they do, it’s the core, aoe and condition spam aren’t some minor mistakes, they are gw2 core, u cant get rid of it. Better to develop gw3 and start fresh.

I dont think it´s to late for Gw2 Pvp ,Beside from the spvp they created a good a solid game so i wouldnt say they should focus on the next game allrdy. The Combat is really good and the fights are more dynamic but they are to short and its like u say most of time just spam and stack something.

garethh.3518:

Exedore.6320:

ANet is on the right track.

Oh, so that’s why the majority of people who played GW2 left…
Games grow over time if they are relatively unheard of or have tons of hidden potential…
GW2 is the exact opposite.

It had MILLIONS of people playing the game on launch, purching the B2P game WITH NO MMO COMPETITION. Yet the population tanked…
It had dozens of extremely qualified esports teams lining up to play it, teams who own the game. Yet they left saying the gameplay was just badly made…

I mean, just a feeling, but I don’t think that’s the right track….

Jumper.9482:

If I didn’t think this game had a chance, I’d probably be dominating the Smite scene right now.

Ehh, that just leaves more food for me.

+1 , So many people bought this game in hope to get a good pvp game but since they didnt like probally cause the expetations were to high they left .. People will come back if anet creates the needed content so we as community can just hope that they noticed it and are working on it ..

I mean in generell its good that they balance the classes BUT if u think about that they should work on Traits and Builds for a team and so on it doesnt make sence to me that they balance it now . The Skills will change alot in the future if they want more synergie between the profs so it will change they way they are op or up

I don’t have any friends that play this game in hopes of it being at a LAN event. The term esports it tossed around and it’s pretty much a joke term now. LoL is the only game being played on LAN around the world for prizes that pay you for the time needed to win at that level. Everything else is mlg / gb esport online heros. This game is for fun go play league if you want to see a LAN event game.

Mindtrick.5190:

I don’t have any friends that play this game in hopes of it being at a LAN event. The term esports it tossed around and it’s pretty much a joke term now. LoL is the only game being played on LAN around the world for prizes that pay you for the time needed to win at that level. Everything else is mlg / gb esport online heros. This game is for fun go play league if you want to see a LAN event game.

is that why people want esport so bad?? so they can justify and support playing a video game full time??

god help the race..

WE NEED a better game experience and more game mode,to get people back….stop say E-sport(no priority)

summer is coming…..

You don’t always need rewards to get people to keep playing. If the actual game play is good people will keep playing looking at the competitive game counter strike people don’t play it to get achievements/skins. Yes I know it is a fps but if the game play is good then rewards shouldn’t mean much

Baldric.6781:

Devs know that the game is an aoe and condition spam with a lack of variety, too fast and too chaotic to cast properly.
But what can they do, it’s the core, aoe and condition spam aren’t some minor mistakes, they are gw2 core, u cant get rid of it. Better to develop gw3 and start fresh.

this makes it sound as if there is something inferior about aoe combat.

not at all, in fact aoe makes combat harder for both, caster and target. unlike single target spells, where you blindly mash button and you only need to keep target selected, with aoe positioning adds to complexity. and same about receiving side, another layer added to combat by the need to monitor ground effects and getting out.

the bad rep of aoe comes from a very different context. when numbers only skills irrelevant Zerging, thats all about which side has more players to spam aoes, there aoe is a mean for skills-less play. even before gw2, bad aoe rep established in other games open world zerging.

but in spvp, aoe is step-up to a combat skills.

People left because the hype on the pvp side was huge. There was a huge smack in the face when it didn’t appear to be what was promised. Now the community is recovering from that smack. We are finally getting the desired features so the community can push the boundaries further. It will grow, slowly but it will get there.

I think anet has a lot on their sleeve to get the population back on track. But they’ve learned from the initial release that you can’t hype it without proper ‘actions’. First the pvp side needs to get rock solid then you can expect a big marketing push with maybe some money thrown around at tournaments. Let’s hope so.

Exedore.6320:

ANet is on the right track. People that promote GW1 GvG are basking in nostalgia. Just watch any GW1 GvG video to see what it was really like.

Omg so not true… There is a reason for the gw1 references… Mainly because its a great game. Every time i launch that game and scroll thorugh my old chars, it brings back memories that make me feel so bad about todays situation of gw2… no really good memories at all so far with this game.

Just watch some old matches to see what it really was like? well i do watch some of my old recorded ones with voice overlay from time to time. simply great and i will probably continue to watch mat highlights in some years from now.

gw2 offers nothing that good. pve veterans leave the game cause there is too less grinding (like in wow) and pvp players leave cause its simply unfinished. the general problem is the whole system. you cannot change that up. its too fast, uncoordinated and promotes no teamplay. furthermore it offers no rewards of any kind….

fix this? i think they cant, period. unless they do major changes in gameplay/mechanics.

ind regards

(outside of GW2) I had the most fun PvPing in Diablo2 and DAoC. Both of these titles were solid. Combat in both games was comprised of 2-4 buttons. The difference between the victor and the defeated came in the form of reaction speed, positioning and preparation.

What I’m saying is that we don’t need a huge amount of depth in the combat system. Actually if it’s less, then non-GW2 players may be able to understand it and have fun watching it. What separates the best in any game for the most part are the factors I mentioned above.

I like the enthusiasm of the GW2 staff and support them in their continuous effort to cater to their fans and community!

PvP has been steadily growing since the release of leaderboards and custom arenas.

There is a ton of games without spectator and leaderboards that are a success, believing that because now we have this features people will come again is just plain wishfull thinking.
People stopped playing because they think other games are better, simple as that, probably because teamfight are a complete mess of aoe and skill spam, and classes do weird things, so for example, if i want a close-combatant, fast and able to survive at close range i will take a war.. an elementalist…
If you enjoy a good laugh, read their ideas about pvp before gw2 came out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IL1JqgBd-Eg

oh my god that was amazing ultima
hahahahha

Ultima.8673:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IL1JqgBd-Eg

more entertaining than tpvp. make moar pl0x

GW2 is in a critical transition point right now, but we’re definitely closer to becoming a competitive game than we are an ‘esports’ title.

I think we’re in a better place lately, and we seem to be making leaps towards improving the overall playability of the game. The tournaments we’ve seen so far are a great indicator of where the game could go, but before we get there we need to make sure the infrastructure is in place to cater to a larger pool of casual players and incoming new players alike.

Implementing solo queue, revamping rewards, tweaking leaderboards, and creating alternative playmodes (not necessarily replacing conquest, but rather complimenting it) are going to be crucial in retaining our current playerbase and expanding it going forward.

On the SOAC E-Sports podcast that I guested on with Jon Sharp, we both agreed that a metered approach to reaching ‘esports’ is better than jumping in head first and hoping that we get it right the first time.

Just my 2c anyways.

I think Guild Wars Prophecies was an accident, and anet has slowly been eroding the PvP scene since factions -

gw2 was a leap forward in ruining pvp

you saw a monkey write shakespear by banging on a typewritter and youre now demanding an encore.

these arent creative geniuses, if those were ever at anet they left and/or arent listened to at the table anymore because some idiot gained clout and now his bad judgement calls the shots.

Nord.5360:

On the SOAC E-Sports podcast that I guested on with Jon Sharp, we both agreed that a metered approach to reaching ‘esports’ is better than jumping in head first and hoping that we get it right the first time.

Just my 2c anyways.

I’m surprised they think GW2, I mean with more tweaks to balance, can be an Esport at all…
A nice game few can enjoy, sure… but a popular esport… ehh…
The weapon-abilities/utilities/conditions/boons/CC/map-setups were just too poorly designed for it to take off.

You could compare the situation to LoL and say, ‘It took 2 years for LoL to be an esport, GW2 could just be warming up’…
LoL wasn’t a super hyped game with millions playing it on launch, with esports teams lining up by the handfuls…

I mean, unlike GW2, LoL didn’t drive away the majority of the people that played it…
it held on to them…
and grew..
and grew…
until it consumed the genre and even other ones…

Completely unlike GW2.
GW2 devs screwed up on next to everything (even polishing!!!) in the game short of dodge rolling, and conceptualizing mechanics… they have a good imagination, just KITTEN foresight… which is something a game that intends to innovate next to everything in a genre kind of can’t live with…

Anyways, best of luck man, no one can see the future, I could be wrong.