Guild Wars 2

Why did you bother introducing stronghold if you give it no support at all?

Why did you make spirit watch and not support it at all? Not balance the orb running. Not put it in your ranked arena. Not put it in your tournaments?

The reason is because there is like 20-30 dudes who are afraid to lose on anything new. So they cry about anything that is introduced and we are stuck with 5v5 conquest on legacy for the 7000th year. Because apparently that is the only real way skill is shown right? Playing a bunker and knowing the jump spots on legacy = skill, amirite?

Honestly. Stronghold is better than conquest. Spirit watch is the best conquest map because it is varied. There are more ways to win than sitting on points with bunkers.

I feel sorry for the devs who put a ton of hard work into these new maps. They are fun but have issues due to not being supported. I have no idea why a tiny minority of players who apparently are in love with forest of nifrel are able to massively influence this games development.

No wonder players are being driven away from this game. I got bored on conquest on legacy about 18 months ago.

Honestly Spirit Watch’s mechanic is a decent counter to sitting on a point all game due to the Orb decap.

I enjoy Stronghold over Conquest. THE issue is balance, with ANet’s current system. It’s just to easy for premades to just rush lord and win. Destroying any fun of it.

PZ farmed it for at least 2 days straight.

I removed stronghold from prefered list quickly.
I agree that map diversity is a good thing. I also don´t want to play legacy or forest all the time….

Wolfric.9380:

I also don´t want to play legacy or forest all the time….

OMG I know right, according to my PvP panel Legacy is my favorite map, even tho I never choose it -.-

I love sprit watch. I say throw caution to the wind and Chuck all the maps in ranked, just full Capricorn with sand or something first cause underwater combat isn’t fun.

There would be whinging and whining but at least it would be varied.

Most of the maps are well made but are out of date. They were made at a time before elites and various other skill/trait changes. Certain maps give an advantage to certain classes because of their increased movement speed uptime affecting how quickly they can travel from one point to another. For example after destroying a treb in Battle of Kyhlo certain classes can have it repaired in in a matter of secs. More bunker types and total point covering aoes are in game (the worst being per sec interrupt lightning/shocking fields) means these fields are too big or some of the capture points are now too small. Foefire lords +guards can be too easily soloed now because of condition/power creep. Basically some maps are being trivialised by some of the class changes made.

I can’t believe we don’t have any death match map in ranked. It’s just ridiculous.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I can’t believe we don’t have any death match map in ranked. It’s just ridiculous.

Stronghold was added in an unfinished form. With no creativity. No thought to how it would work. And then not supported at all. So it obviously sucks. The reason for this is:

1, The esports lamers told anet not to support it
2, Anet wanted it to fail so they could say “I told you so”. Some people at anet obviously didnt want to put work into it because they wanted it to fail

Game is almoset powercleave/healing.
Maps need both teams to split up and fight like 3v3 3v2 1v2 2v2.

A death match would mean a 5v5 aoe spam.
Think no1 would like this ( at least, into Ranked Arena ).

If some1 wants to faceroll, here stronghold comes.

Shirlias.8104:

Game is almoset powercleave/healing.
Maps need both teams to split up and fight like 3v3 3v2 1v2 2v2.

A death match would mean a 5v5 aoe spam.
Think no1 would like this ( at least, into Ranked Arena ).

If some1 wants to faceroll, here stronghold comes.

I don’t get your aoe spam reply and don’t agree no one in ranked would want that. I for one would want it.

Conquest is not real pvp to me. It’s not players besting players so much as team rotating well.

I agree there needs to be more maps in ranked. I am tired of playing the same 4 maps (same 2 most of the time, I get forest and legacy at least 7 out of 10 games and sometimes I get all 10 on those 2 maps). I would happily have spirit watch, sky hammer, courtyard and the whole concept of stronghold maps gone forever if it meant there could be a single new conquest map for ranked. The game NEEDS more map diversity in ranked in order to hold my interest in actually playing (rather than farming) pvp. Additionally, as the pro league and other GW2 e-sports events are very important to me at the moment, I have to say that it would be extremely interesting to watch the teams trying to adapt to a new map layout and secondary mechanic. I would also like it if it was a mechanic that must be used regularly as well as in the pro league bosses on forest are only ever really killed at 475-475 types of score line, foefire Lord rushed are rarely even attempted and the trebuchet is completely ignored on kyhlo. I don’t care what the new map is as long as it is available in ranked from the start and is also used in the pro league because that would make both playing and watching pvp so much better for me.

Lol no, OP. Both maps are awful compared to conquest. The “esports” people tried to help, but gave up when their comments fell on deaf ears.

Spirit watch’s cap point structure, particularly the middle point, is awful. Lots of open terrain and the middle point can’t see anything on the map while being reasonably near the point. The orb mechanic is terrible – instead of shaking up the map or helping the team which has less nodes, it just helps the team with more nodes gain a larger advantage. And the orb running is hugely inconsistent – you can’t teleport, but you can charge or superspeed with it over an equal distance. Anything tanky with movement increases excels at it to the point where it’s almost unstoppable.

Stronghold had major issues since it’s first live server beta test. Archers being useless was a common complaint through every beta test of Stronghold. Most of those issues were not addressed.

So no, esports didn’t hijack this game.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Shirlias.8104:

Game is almoset powercleave/healing.
Maps need both teams to split up and fight like 3v3 3v2 1v2 2v2.

A death match would mean a 5v5 aoe spam.
Think no1 would like this ( at least, into Ranked Arena ).

If some1 wants to faceroll, here stronghold comes.

I don’t get your aoe spam reply and don’t agree no one in ranked would want that. I for one would want it.

Conquest is not real pvp to me. It’s not players besting players so much as team rotating well.

Conquer is more pvp than the “arena” map.

I agree it would be nice some 2v2 or at least 3v3 ( cause less players, but still not sure about 3v3, and the possibility to work on a strategy instead focus, change, focus stomp, like the actual meta when 5 meets 5 ).

If you don’t see any aoe spam ( dmg/cleansing/boons/condi/healings/cc ) it’s your fault, not mine.

The reason this game is failing is because of Anet, not a group of people. They don’t listen to any advice that the community gives them. Really, Anet hijacked this game and took it away from the community.

Anet should remove this game mode where people just spam aoe inside small circles.

They should put instead something like “aoe deal 100% damage to target, and half to others”. we will see less cleave and more tactic ( and more physical dmg dealers ).

Shirlias.8104:

Game is almoset powercleave/healing.
Maps need both teams to split up and fight like 3v3 3v2 1v2 2v2.

A death match would mean a 5v5 aoe spam.
Think no1 would like this ( at least, into Ranked Arena ).

If some1 wants to faceroll, here stronghold comes.

Then deathmatch should be 3v3s. It needs to be balanced around elites. So it could be a ticket based system. It could be a single control area and a 10 minute fights. With a concede mechanic. It needs to be not so the best elite wins…….it needs to be based on average performance over 10 minutes of builds.

All of this needs to be thought out and designed appropriately by a design team. Courtyard was not designed. it was thrown together and put out carelessly.

Exedore.6320:

Lol no, OP. Both maps are awful compared to conquest. The “esports” people tried to help, but gave up when their comments fell on deaf ears.

Spirit watch’s cap point structure, particularly the middle point, is awful. Lots of open terrain and the middle point can’t see anything on the map while being reasonably near the point. The orb mechanic is terrible – instead of shaking up the map or helping the team which has less nodes, it just helps the team with more nodes gain a larger advantage. And the orb running is hugely inconsistent – you can’t teleport, but you can charge or superspeed with it over an equal distance. Anything tanky with movement increases excels at it to the point where it’s almost unstoppable.

Stronghold had major issues since it’s first live server beta test. Archers being useless was a common complaint through every beta test of Stronghold. Most of those issues were not addressed.

So no, esports didn’t hijack this game.

Actually that is the point. They did hijack it because all the esports lamers have skype convos with the devs and convinced them to stick with the same boring kitten….aka conquest.

There are issues with spirit watch and with stronghold. But if they supported them they could easily fix these issues. It would really not be hard at all.

The 95% of people who didn’t to play 5k games of legacy of the foefire quit. The 5% left now influence development. They enjoy legacy even after their 5k games. So we will never get the 95% back. EVER.

All because they are afraid to lose and afraid of anything new. Its embarrassing really.

I cant believe HOT only just came out and anet completely gave up on tweaking stronghold. How crazy is that? It is remarkable really. Its like they didnt want it to succeed in the first place. Which of course they didnt. Which is really sad. And immoral.

Rickster.8752:

Shirlias.8104:

Game is almoset powercleave/healing.
Maps need both teams to split up and fight like 3v3 3v2 1v2 2v2.

A death match would mean a 5v5 aoe spam.
Think no1 would like this ( at least, into Ranked Arena ).

If some1 wants to faceroll, here stronghold comes.

Then deathmatch should be 3v3s. It needs to be balanced around elites. So it could be a ticket based system. It could be a single control area and a 10 minute fights. With a concede mechanic. It needs to be not so the best elite wins…….it needs to be based on average performance over 10 minutes of builds.

All of this needs to be thought out and designed appropriately by a design team. Courtyard was not designed. it was thrown together and put out carelessly.

As said before, a 2v2/3v3 ( not sure about 3v3 ) would be nice to play and see.

Btw at first i disliked too the “contest the point” mechanics, but then ( due to gw2 spvp and time to play ) i liked em. it seems they are meant to separate players ( actually is kinda hard due to mesmer portal, sometimes ).

Shirlias.8104:

Rickster.8752:

Shirlias.8104:

Game is almoset powercleave/healing.
Maps need both teams to split up and fight like 3v3 3v2 1v2 2v2.

A death match would mean a 5v5 aoe spam.
Think no1 would like this ( at least, into Ranked Arena ).

If some1 wants to faceroll, here stronghold comes.

Then deathmatch should be 3v3s. It needs to be balanced around elites. So it could be a ticket based system. It could be a single control area and a 10 minute fights. With a concede mechanic. It needs to be not so the best elite wins…….it needs to be based on average performance over 10 minutes of builds.

All of this needs to be thought out and designed appropriately by a design team. Courtyard was not designed. it was thrown together and put out carelessly.

As said before, a 2v2/3v3 ( not sure about 3v3 ) would be nice to play and see.

Btw at first i disliked too the “contest the point” mechanics, but then ( due to gw2 spvp and time to play ) i liked em. it seems they are meant to separate players ( actually is kinda hard due to mesmer portal, sometimes ).

Conquest is fine as one of many game modes. Or with meaningful secondary mechanics. Which they tried to add and then all the try-hards QQed about it. Whats the point in a game if its not even fun? How hard would if be to make spirit watch into a competitive map? Why waste time to develop it, do 95% of the work on BOTH STRONGHOLD and SPIRIT WATCH —-- and then give up right at the finish line and dont make the final touches?

Whats the point? Where is the business sense in that?

I agree there is no point

I mean, if you ( ANET ) want to bring gw2 to the E-Sport scene, you must decide “what” you consider the E-Sport Mod.

Actually we have both stronghold and custom arenas, and players can achieve high spvp ranks through both of em… but everybody knows for sure that maps are way too differents.

I also dislike the maps i also like, cause “pve” mechanics, like khylo ( treb, repair kit ), Legacy ( doors/npc/lord ), Forest ( Svanir and chief, which are way different. Svanir is way more op, talkin as thief ).

I dislike temple and forest also cause capture points are different.

I think it would be great to have a specific map for spvp ( but i still would prefer with capture points, to split up players. i m scared about a 5v5 due to massive spam ).

Shirlias.8104:

I agree there is no point

I mean, if you ( ANET ) want to bring gw2 to the E-Sport scene, you must decide “what” you consider the E-Sport Mod.

Actually we have both stronghold and custom arenas, and players can achieve high spvp ranks through both of em… but everybody knows for sure that maps are way too differents.

I also dislike the maps i also like, cause “pve” mechanics, like khylo ( treb, repair kit ), Legacy ( doors/npc/lord ), Forest ( Svanir and chief, which are way different. Svanir is way more op, talkin as thief ).

I dislike temple and forest also cause capture points are different.

I think it would be great to have a specific map for spvp ( but i still would prefer with capture points, to split up players. i m scared about a 5v5 due to massive spam ).

I get what you say about conquest splitting players but I don’t see what you are so afraid of about what you call “spam”. Must be because I play a lot of WvW that it doesn’t scare me that much. It’s not because you have tons of effects going all around that it is mindless and not strategic and coordinated.

New maps were asked for and we were told sure, but they seemed to have been abandoned or became stronghold instead. I still remember seeing them in development - for a while you could see them on the map in Heart of the Mists, just like you can see the other PvP maps there.

I’m not against the idea of ANet working on Spirit Watch to make it a good choice, either in conquest or as its own game mode. The issue with having it in ESL or ranked is that its map mechanic is too different from the other maps that it would affect your comp. This can be argued over because teams change comps between matches on Legacy, Forest, Temple and Khylo already, I suppose, but even so, it still needs working on. ESL removed Temple while it had an bug, even though it was avoidable by standing closer to the buffs when channeling.

I would have preferred Spirit Watch reworking into a capture the flag mode, or just a new map for that type of mode, instead of Stronghold with its PvE/NPC-reliant element. I detest Stronghold, and whether you like it or not, it is not ESL material, and the majority of the PvP playerbase (from my understanding) prefer Conquest, and of them only those looking to get quick pips or dailies will consider Stronghold.

Impact.2780:

New maps were asked for and we were told sure, but they seemed to have been abandoned or became stronghold instead. I still remember seeing them in development – for a while you could see them on the map in Heart of the Mists, just like you can see the other PvP maps there.

I’m not against the idea of ANet working on Spirit Watch to make it a good choice, either in conquest or as its own game mode. The issue with having it in ESL or ranked is that its map mechanic is too different from the other maps that it would affect your comp. This can be argued over because teams change comps between matches on Legacy, Forest, Temple and Khylo already, I suppose, but even so, it still needs working on. ESL removed Temple while it had an bug, even though it was avoidable by standing closer to the buffs when channeling.

I would have preferred Spirit Watch reworking into a capture the flag mode, or just a new map for that type of mode, instead of Stronghold with its PvE/NPC-reliant element. I detest Stronghold, and whether you like it or not, it is not ESL material, and the majority of the PvP playerbase (from my understanding) prefer Conquest, and of them only those looking to get quick pips or dailies will consider Stronghold.

Whether I like it not its not esl material lol?

As for “its requires different comps”. That is the point dude. People are afraid to lose because their comp isnt op as kitten. Lets face it. You proved me right with your comments

Rickster.8752:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I can’t believe we don’t have any death match map in ranked. It’s just ridiculous.

Stronghold was added in an unfinished form. With no creativity. No thought to how it would work. And then not supported at all. So it obviously sucks. The reason for this is:

1, The esports lamers told anet not to support it
2, Anet wanted it to fail so they could say “I told you so”. Some people at anet obviously didnt want to put work into it because they wanted it to fail

Then why even bother introducing it?

Rickster.8752:

Impact.2780:

New maps were asked for and we were told sure, but they seemed to have been abandoned or became stronghold instead. I still remember seeing them in development – for a while you could see them on the map in Heart of the Mists, just like you can see the other PvP maps there.

I’m not against the idea of ANet working on Spirit Watch to make it a good choice, either in conquest or as its own game mode. The issue with having it in ESL or ranked is that its map mechanic is too different from the other maps that it would affect your comp. This can be argued over because teams change comps between matches on Legacy, Forest, Temple and Khylo already, I suppose, but even so, it still needs working on. ESL removed Temple while it had an bug, even though it was avoidable by standing closer to the buffs when channeling.

I would have preferred Spirit Watch reworking into a capture the flag mode, or just a new map for that type of mode, instead of Stronghold with its PvE/NPC-reliant element. I detest Stronghold, and whether you like it or not, it is not ESL material, and the majority of the PvP playerbase (from my understanding) prefer Conquest, and of them only those looking to get quick pips or dailies will consider Stronghold.

Whether I like it not its not esl material lol?

As for “its requires different comps”. That is the point dude. People are afraid to lose because their comp isnt op as kitten. Lets face it. You proved me right with your comments

Nope. You’re complaining that it’s not been put in ranked or tournaments. I explained why and that it needs to be worked on in order to fit in, or become a new game mode. That is in no way “proving you right.”

Even so, as I mentioned as an after-thought in my post: teams often alter their comps on the maps already in Ranked anyway, therefore a different comp isn’t much of a big deal so long as it isn’t drastic and requiring people to know more than one class to be able to compete in one mode. Being able to multi class should be an asset, not requirement, hence why game different modes are separated.

I expect more drama’s but not like this, definitely not like this.

I’d love some Spirit Watch love to get it into ranked games!

Sad part is this game is hardly an a Esport, one of the least competitive games on the market with hardly any teams other than that 1 Arena Net marketing team.

I agree it’s sad that they created new pvp content for the expansion, and neglect it. People voiced their concerns and gave feedback during the beta weekends on how they can possibly improve stronghold.

Conquest is a joke for competitive play, there is no skill in rotating and holding points with terrible class balance for the past 3 years.

Was looking forward to a new game mode and possibly more depth into this game’s pvp.

Shirlias.8104:

Game is almoset powercleave/healing.
Maps need both teams to split up and fight like 3v3 3v2 1v2 2v2.

A death match would mean a 5v5 aoe spam.
Think no1 would like this ( at least, into Ranked Arena ).

If some1 wants to faceroll, here stronghold comes.

this is the same as saying scrims in wvwvw are all about spamming 1
a 5v5 is about 2 things: how quickly you can switch focus to a new target and how quickly the target can react to the focus.
most people hop into a teamfight and expect the target to drop immediatly, this kind of people usually is the first to drop because they overextend too much, a teamfight progresses slowly unless someone makes some blatant mistake.

Why not just make the gate guards champions and reduce skritt damage? That’d slow stronghold games down a bit, hopefully less “30 seconds in and the premade has already killed the lord” scenarios.

Why are people giving suggestions to fix premades rolling a pug team? Stronghold is not balanced around a coordinated team playing newbs. Every map is bad when that happens, it’s not the map’s fault.

Relair.1843:

Why not just make the gate guards champions and reduce skritt damage? That’d slow stronghold games down a bit, hopefully less “30 seconds in and the premade has already killed the lord” scenarios.

Ummm… how about NO! Most of my Stronghold matches go the full 15 minutes. The quick runs should not be possible with balance patch today.

I completely agree, there should be more variety in sPvP. I wanted to toss the computer out the window after getting in a rut of Temple and Foefire, Temple and Foefire, on and on. Also, speaking of variety, there should be water combat! Bring back Capricorn!!!!!!

Oh, lemme just shoehorn this whiny jab at ESL players into my angry thread at Devs for not developing my favorite gamemode and map. That’ll show em!

Sometimes I actually wish the 0.1% population of esports players actually had that much of a say or influence on development priorities as you think they do. I mean, I wouldn’t trust them on class balance as far as I could throw them, but they probably would have a better idea on how to improve Stronghold, PvP leagues, etc. It certainly couldn’t be worse than we have right now.

DeWolfe.2174:

Relair.1843:

Why not just make the gate guards champions and reduce skritt damage? That’d slow stronghold games down a bit, hopefully less “30 seconds in and the premade has already killed the lord” scenarios.

Ummm… how about NO! Most of my Stronghold matches go the full 15 minutes. The quick runs should not be possible with balance patch today.

Same here. Big portion of my Stronghold games were decided by points. Changes shouldn’t be made to accommodate pugs being destroyed by premades because then balanced even matches might suffer.

Also, no to Raid of the Capricorn without major underwater combat changes. Hello immortal ranger. Run in, die, kill 2 people while getting rez’d by pet.