Guild Wars 2

I think we need some kind of summary thread for it.

I will start:
- while i appreciate the space on mid point i feel like it offers close to no LoS (the pillars and slopes are just too far away) and give classes with big range too much advantage. Could you throw 2-4 pillars around the actual point?

The only class/weapon with any kind of advantage that I can think of, is Ranger/Longbow. Most other classes have comparable range weapon options. So I don’t think range really has an advantage. Besides, with more space there is more room to run around evade and dodge.

Personally I like when mid point is open like on Coliseum. Can get a bit hard to see whats going on when its crunched up, like on Skyhammer mid.

So far my only complaint about the map is the colouring is a bit boring. TBH though, when I’m fighting i’m not really taking that much notice of the colour-scheme lol.

There probably ought to be an overhang on the shield and sword platforms. Right now I just port up there around 1-2 secs to go on mesmer or thief and I’ve got a free buff vs anyone who hasn’t run up there before me.

Ubik.8315:

There probably ought to be an overhang on the shield and sword platforms. Right now I just port up there around 1-2 secs to go on mesmer or thief and I’ve got a free buff vs anyone who hasn’t run up there before me.

ele can do it as well… basically anyone with locational tp

Got the title, this is my feedback

The map is really interesting but there are some stuff to fix:

- Map promotes too much Blink and teleport skills most of all for taking side buffs and go through the Mid barrier.
- Buffs are interesting but the design is too much “selfish”. I’d like more a Team bonus advantage, ofc it should be balanced with duration and damage. A general idea could be you channel the buff and every member of your team get the buff and has 90s to activate it and the buff has a duration between 15s – 30s. The idea is to make a spike or defense action in a time window, something can change a fight but you need to activate well at the right moment.

The crowd buff is pretty funny and I think is fine like it is.
About the design i I think the crowd is fine because is important to have a very good frame rate, so too much details are not good. You could add some Animals or gladiators more detailed on base cages, like an environment element.

I’ve only played ten games thus far, but here’s my experience:

1) It’s probably the most ‘snowbally’ map I’ve played, and that includes Courtyard. Thus far, I’ve never seen the team that was winning around the halfway mark not go on to win. I think it’s because the mechanics are easier to take advantage of if your team is already winning – it’s the winning team that gets the crowd buffs, and if you’re winning, you can usually more easily afford for someone to grab the artifacts.

2) The artifacts don’t feel like they have the same power. The auto-finishers from the sword can be fairly decisive: it allows an enemy to be finished without someone having to spend time finishing them off (I think the victim can get out of it by changing position by elementalist mistform, thief teleport, or mesmer shift if the mesmer shifts far enough, but the reaper can’t be interrupted) – and that can sometimes mean that one or more of your allies rally off the auto-finish. The auto-res, however… it’s nice to have, I guess, but it tends to just delay the inevitable unless the fight was pretty close to begin with.

Phil.8901:

- Map promotes too much Blink and teleport skills most of all for taking side buffs and go through the Mid barrier.

I like these only because Thief could benefit in having a map advantage for once. They really didn’t do so well in the WTS so i’m hoping they’ll shine a bit brigher with these map-promoting Shadowsteps.

I think the map itself has almost no atmosphere.. The reuse of assets is way too obivious here. Everything feels very mashed together and the lightning is bland. Also the artifacts feel like a snow-bally mechanic and the way to them and the temple are strange.

The crowdcheering is a way too hidden mechanic that feels very badly implemented. Indeed it only serves to strenghten the snowballing. It should be removed.

When it comes to design the arena needs to feel much less stale and clean. Add gore, cages, flags… whatever… but some sort of clutter/details. Too much details has gone to everything outside the arena (like the Divinity’s Reach clone) and it simply doesn’t work. In PvP people are more busy with their close environment than the distant vistas.

Agree with:
- too much advantage for teleport skills.
- sword artifact being more powerful than shield one. Wouldn’t be a problem if access was symmetrical to the spawn points, but that’s not currently the case.
- artifact mechanics being too hidden. Part of the problem is that running to the artifact takes the player away from defending points, so that the artifacts tend to hurt more than help unless the enemy is too slow-moving (or too far behind) to take advantage of the lack of point defense. (Exception being thieves, of course, with their many teleports, and their ability to jump over walls.)

I don’t think that the map needs any more clutter. The walls blocking view and movement are quite enough to look at. Players who are unfamiliar with the map get lost trying to get to mid, which can disadvantage the whole team from the get-go.

The map has too few passages. It is very easy to predict player movement as long as they don’t have teleport.

The map creates snowball effect even stronger than Legacy of foefire.

In my opinion this is the worst map ever created for conquest mode and should not be used for ranked in any near future.

I like the crowd buff. It’s one one ANET’s better ideas. Playing before the crowd is compelling in a way that the other maps definitely are not.

The blink and TP points are deliberate and a good thing too. Without them, Mesmer and Thief would pretty much be out of the game. I’ve seen a couple of necros making good use of [Flesh Wurm] as well.

Ranger has some real advantages on the map. Again these are partially offset by the mobility set up.

The sky boxes ala’ Harry Potter are great as is the general scenery. The crowd motion seems a little better. I love the notion of the red and blue banners and particles.

If memory serves, chariot racers at the hippodrome were identified by colored ribbons. That fit’s beautifully with team colors.

The duality of Dwayna and Grenth on the two sides of the arena is a nice piece of symbolism and very well thought.

The Coliseum actually looks similar to historical accounts I’ve read. Basic functionality is the rule. The games were about the killing. Some pageants and plays were done as well, but in general it would have been very drab.

At the beginning of every match, I hear in my head, “Hail ANET! Those who are about to die, salute you.”

EgyptRaider.3946:

The crowdcheering is a way too hidden mechanic that feels very badly implemented. Indeed it only serves to strenghten the snowballing. It should be removed.

Or put in a ‘the crowd loves a comeback’ mechanic – if your team’s losing, you need less stacks of the crowd buff to get the crowd skill.

At the moment, it feels like you generally only see the skill pop up when all it’s going to do is increase how much you win by. If it is made easier for the underdog to get access to it, though, then it might be something that could be used to reverse the momentum – you’d still need to earn it by making a good play, but if, say, you manage to win a teamfight when you’re a hundred points down, that could be worth earning a few cheers of your own that you might be able to use to build a counter-snowball.

zerg zerg zerg = u win

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

zerg zerg zerg = u win

Not always. More so than most maps, I think, but I have seen games where one team was losing the teamfights but winning on rotations.

Hi,

after some games i would like to some feedback too.
While i appreciate new maps i think this one isnt worked out as good as Capricorn.
1. Fix the unportable places. Playing this map with a class with teleports is a pain because they fail quite often and there are so many places you cant teleport to.
You cant teleport to the two higher areas around mid point and so you cant escape with teleports or punish ranged attackers that are standing there.
Increase the high of the pillars and ledges surrounding the wooden constructs. You cant teleport there either. Make them cover not places you can stnad on while denying teleporting to these places. Teleporting through the walls between mid/sidepoints mostly fails if you try to port from side to mid. Fix this caus it usually works the other way.
2. Add some cover around the points and on the ways between the points. Classes that cant bridge huge amounts of ground in a short time would have at least the chanche to kite, if there was more than flat ground.
3. Add faster/shorter ways for classes with few/no teleports. Mainly the ability to port through the walls between mid/side lead to a dominance of porting classes, if the teleports dont fail. (See Point 1) A counter to the dominance of porting classes is not to add a lot of spaces were you cant teleport to.
4. The map is a huge snowball. If you get the inital snowball there is little hope for the enemy to regroup and recover. The leading team gets favor of the crowd, can afford to send ppl to the side buffs and has usually a cap advantage. This results in even more ppl quitting the match than usually cause it is way harder to make a comeback.
5. The sidebuffs are not nearly equally strong. Grenth with 20% more damge and condition damage+ unlimited autofinisher is obviously stronger than Dwayna. The tougthness and vitality from Dwayna is not nearly enough to protect from Grenths damage boost. Grenth just burns through that. Also Grenths Finisher has unlimited uses while Dwanas Rezz is limited to one time. First step would be to limit Grenths Finisher also to a one time use. Second Step would be to rebalance the buffs to nearly equal strength. Either decrease the damage buff or add something to dwayna like increased reviving speed or the autorezz is reworked to rezz the first teammate that is downed near you instead of a selfrezz. Increased reviving speed pulsing boons for your team something like that maybe.
6. Move the second base exit. You doesnt even need to consider which one to take. The second one needs to be moved so you have to make an actual choice.

As mesmer i like it, a blink here and a reflect there – great map!

Crystal Black.8190:

Hi,
1. Fix the unportable places. Playing this map with a class with teleports is a pain because they fail quite often and there are so many places you cant teleport to.
You cant teleport to the two higher areas around mid point and so you cant escape with teleports or punish ranged attackers that are standing there.
Increase the high of the pillars and ledges surrounding the wooden constructs. You cant teleport there either. Make them cover not places you can stnad on while denying teleporting to these places. Teleporting through the walls between mid/sidepoints mostly fails if you try to port from side to mid. Fix this caus it usually works the other way.

The mesmer blink works well, always blink on the edge of the higher places, that way you can avoid long walking discances. Not behind the edge, exactly on the edge.

Nope they dont if you need to jump to reach them and there are countless of them. Not sure why i cant attach screens of the places. Just look for places you need to jump to reach them and you should be able to find them eg top of pillars, or the platforms in mid.

Anti-teleport spots as part of the terrain exist for a reason.

Sure, everything you need to j6np is teleport proof – not only in PvP – there has to be a way – but on the other hand, it doesn’t matter how long the way is

Like all other maps, you have two exits from spawn. But both of them lead to the home node. It becomes kinda pointless whichever exists you take

This makes it really easy for enemy team to predict your movement after respawn and create snow ball effect.

Also, without teleport skills, if you want to leave one of those side nodes. There is literally one narrow path you can take. Again, it makes easy for enemy to predict your movement and snowball their victory.

Exciton.8942:

Like all other maps, you have two exits from spawn. But both of them lead to the home node. It becomes kinda pointless whichever exists you take

This is the best feedback in the thread so far. I’d like to add that the secondary exit takes longer to get you to all three nodes from respawn, so essentially there’s only one viable exit.

kin korn karn.9023:

Exciton.8942:

Like all other maps, you have two exits from spawn. But both of them lead to the home node. It becomes kinda pointless whichever exists you take

This is the best feedback in the thread so far. I’d like to add that the secondary exit takes longer to get you to all three nodes from respawn, so essentially there’s only one viable exit.

Not to mention that the second exit is closed near the first exit so you can’t just walk from the first exit during the 10s start-up. Thus this 2nd exit has absolutely no use while exits in Kyhlo, Spiritwatch, Hammer do.

Moreover, I love the crowd chant mechanic. Maybe allow more animated crowds on then disable it on Limit LOD effects? I’d prefer higher framerate.

I highly dislike the wooden structures. It’s a terrible choice of texture and asset usage. I understand that reusing assets in pvp is normal because it’s supposed to be connected to PVE maps but the wooden structures were a bad choice. I’d have preferred stone or metallic structures.

Regarding map flow
1) Artifacts do seem unbalanced. Reaper being the more powerful one because multiple people can rally on one downed player while while the Shield artifact only revives the holder ONCE. You should make it so that when the Reaper artifact finishes the Shield artifact holder, the two artifacts cancel out and remove buff from both teams.
OR those revived by the Shield artifact holder return with slightly higher toughness temporarily thus while the reaper enforces death, the shield encourages survival.

2) The wooden block in front of spawn. why the hell is that there? It just blocks people leaving the spawn and does nothing more but annoy people. Take it out

3) Yes the map does support Teleport skills, though for the ledge near mid, I’ve noticed leap skills work as well. e.g. Engineer elixir 4 skill, warrior sword 2, ranger sword 2 etc. Considering the mid is just wide open space with little cover and can be cleaved from the two higher ground areas, I think this is a fine trade off.

4) I really can’t help but think that the map is too bland. I mean I know colloseums are supposed to be simple but I think it could use skeletons, torches, more statues. The Dwayna and Grenth areas look great and I wish that same attention to detail was present throughout the map

5). Overall, this is a much better alternative for Courtyard. It promotes deathmatch but still has objectives for possible rotations.

What I dont like about the map:
- it looks too plain and boring
- thief elite skill that finishes you skips the shield artifact bonus of free rezz
- classes with blinks/teleports have too much of an advantage

What I like about this map:
- nothing

Don’t like the advantages of the teleports.

The teleport spot to the shield/sword is obnoxious. Even if the easy ledge teleport was removed and you had to teleport up to the stairs, that would be a lot better.

I don’t like how it’s hard to tell which spot the shield and which spot the sword are spawning at. Because the sword is a lot better than the shield.

What’s the point of the crowd buff that you can click and get some free stats for? It’s like you get a stat bonus for wiping the other team which makes wiping them again easier/encourages snowballing. I think that’s poorly thought out.

The wood design does seem bland. Some more color somewhere would be nice.

Hopefully this map and Capricorn can make it to ranked pvp before January.

Malediktus.3740:

What I dont like about the map:
- it looks too plain and boring
- thief elite skill that finishes you skips the shield artifact bonus of free rezz
- classes with blinks/teleports have too much of an advantage

What I like about this map:
- nothing

You mean like how all the Aoe spam classes have too much of an advantage on the small point size for contesting? The teleporting is a trade off that Thieves and to an extent Mesmers get so they can be useful and decap since they can’t fight on point and contest without dying to all of the Aoe spam. Just saying it’s a compromise that is good for the game mode

oh yes I forgot to mention the way too small cap circles. Need to be at roughly twice the radius

Just my opinions.

- Mid point favors range far too much.
- Cap points are far too small.
- when you run out of base and go towards home and up the ramp to your left, why is there not another ramp towards mid?
- The buffs, why the buffs? why can’t artifacts unleash a pack of tigers or something Coliseum themed instead of outright buffs?

Otherwise, awsome map.

I don’t know why some ppl complain about small circles.

Small circle is an important balance factor between defend and assaulter.

We have large circles on legacy. But that strongly favors defensive builds holding point. It is very hard to drive away sustain build like druid or scrapper on the point.

The truth is the map already favors zerging and snowballing. Making the circle large could only make things worse. To win the map, you just win the teamfight. Then leave some tanky build holding the point while the rest zerg to the next point. The 3 points are so close to each other that it is easy for the zerg to move between them.

People also need to learn not to cluster into the point. You only need one member on the point to contest it. A lot of time, ppl stack onto point to take unnecessary damage. It is very obvious on Khylo where it is not a good idea to stand on mid point where you can get hit by trebu. Trebbing is useless on the map if everyone learns to not to stand on the mid point.

- the small gap/stair between close( or far) and mid-point (near the spawn) is an advantage for every class with jump or teleport skill.
- pls make it a flat way or allow players to jump through it with SPACE cause its an disadvantage for classes that have to walk the whole way around to rotate to mid point.

- i dont like the buffs, maybe u replace it with a single buff that neutralizes ALL caps.
—> so its more a come back feature ( only the team thats behind has an interesst for the buff and the leading team has to defend their caps+ the buff) +1 for it

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Malediktus.3740:

What I dont like about the map:
- it looks too plain and boring
- thief elite skill that finishes you skips the shield artifact bonus of free rezz
- classes with blinks/teleports have too much of an advantage

What I like about this map:
- nothing

You mean like how all the Aoe spam classes have too much of an advantage on the small point size for contesting? The teleporting is a trade off that Thieves and to an extent Mesmers get so they can be useful and decap since they can’t fight on point and contest without dying to all of the Aoe spam. Just saying it’s a compromise that is good for the game mode

Mesmers are probably the best at surviving aoe cleave: block with shield 2x, distortion, sword 2, retreat with staff, Recharge shatter signet + distortion. Only a guardian could possibly stand on a point for that long.

Besides, Mesmer and Thief don’t even have the best mobility on the map. Revenant does. Why go around the wall, when Rev just ports directly to the target on the other side?

VIDEO EDITION: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s1w-dwefEo

THE GOOD THINGS:

- The map design is the opposite of Legacy, you can hardly see where the enemy team is going which makes stealth pushes a really powerful tool, it makes call-outs for who is where a really important tool and it just is a tactically interesting map.

THE BAD:
- The only buff that seems useful is the Grenth Damage buff, due to reasons like; a stomp rallying an entire team whilst one rez (Dwayna buff) won’t always lead to that happening. IF the Dwayna buff gave the wielder a skill that allows them to resurrect any downed allows in the area, that would prove useful and on par with the strenght of the Grenth buff.

- The look of the map is jarring at first. The colour doesn’t really sit well with the eyes. Of course you get used to it after a few matches but, it could be better. I suggest replacing the walls with the walls in the Courtyard map. Those were more interesting to look at.

- Finally, I don’t think the two buffs are exciting at all. They just don’t offer the comeback potentials the other buffs on the other maps do and as said earlier, the buffs are uneven in quality. I would suggest replacing it with a giant tiger that is released at a certain interval, this tiger would mainly go after the winning team but whoever manages to kill it would instantly get all 3 points and a buff to +100 to all stats. I think this would give the map some excitement for both casting and participation.

Bad things on map:
-It’s different, points are closer to mid point than in other maps, so there’s no way for mobile classes like thief and mesmer to keep enemy running back and forth.

- When enemy wipes, they can just camp other teams spawning point, because there is only one quick way to close point from base. Other route isn’t doing any favor if you want to avoid spawn camping. It should give a route to all way around to other side of close point.

- Graphics are bad and boring. Wood wood wood… Nothing colour on map and unnecessary walls on some points. Add some tigers to cages and colour to walls other than tiny banners.

- Artifacts are bad when some classes can teleport to them directly, so they don’t need to walk the ramp up. And I think They should be team buffs, like beasts in Forest of Nifhlel. Tone them down and give shield bearers team a def buff, and sword bearers team an offensive buff. And if player who is carrying artifact is killed, then whole team loses the buff. That way it isnt giving one player too much advantage in 1v1 or 2v2 situations.

- PETS AND MINIONS. There are areas (like the platforms on both side of mid point) where pets and minions can’t enter. Pets can get there if ranger jumps to platform and switch pet, or pet teleports there but if ranger is on point, pet can’t rush to the enemy. Add small ramps to the back of platforms so pets can attack enemies standing there.

Good things:
-…. I’m not sure if there’s anything that’s better in this map that doesn’t already exist in other maps. Maybe make mid point larger like in Foefire and add 4 pilars to the sides of mid point, so they can be used as LoS denials.

- I like the feeling of being gladiator on this map, but it’s lost after you remember you can’t just run after enemies or artifacts, because you have to keep contesting those points and rotating on this map is just mid-close-mid-far-mid…. haven’t seen ever that one team could hold close-far long enough, so team who holds mid longer is a winner.

Feedback for coliseum here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Conquest-Objectives-Analysis/first#post6360681

My main concern in the above link is about it’s objective system.

Mutaatti.2789:

haven’t seen ever that one team could hold close-far long enough, so team who holds mid longer is a winner.

I was about to say that I have, until I realised you didn’t mean situations where a team was able to consistently hold all three points because they’re just winning by that much, but where a team is able to play sides by holding close and far without holding mid.

In that case… hrrrmn. I think I may have seen it once. I had one game where my team was pretty much winning all the teamfights, but the enemy team was doing much better on grabbing points. I don’t recall if we were consistently holding mid or whether we were losing that too, though: part of the problem, IIRC, is that the team I was on was too easily drawn out to fight away from a point while another member of the enemy team snuck in and grabbed the point.

But it’s certainly a lot harder to play sides than any other map, even Foefire. Hold mid, and you can get to the other points quickly, and (unlike Foefire) reasonably easily spot anyone going for your home and get onto them before they can cap.

I like the fact that there are small spaces of safety near mid. Ranger already has huge advantages with ranged attacks in the wide open spaces.

If the pet could get to the platforms it would be too much.

This map is so open that the mobility obstacles are really a saving grace for Mesmer and perhaps thief.

Look:

for a ranked arena i think its not a well improved map (feels more to me it was made with the spirit of a normal map like skyhammer or spirit run one).
For a unranked arena and hotjoins, its a very funn map. Specially if you do a massive fight.
For unranked arenas in general, feel free to add 20 maps… We’d like to see all the art you can make.
GL!

The objectives being snowballish rather than a chance for the losing team to launch a comeback is the main problem with EC.

Maybe if the artifacts released animals in to the arena that would either (A) attack the enemy team or (B) defend the triggering team. The artifacts could possibly drop small siege in to the arena for the triggering team or simply turn the artifacts in to powerful bundle items that have their own skills to be used and can be picked up by the opposing team if they down the person with the bundle artifact.

Would be more roman coliseum themed like that anyway.

Pretty much everything I want to say has already been said, but I’ll reiterate the points I thought were important:
1. side exits from bases are pointless. Barely closer to side nodes than front exit, WAY further to mid node. Ideally, gates should be moved, but since that would mean a complete redesign of the map, the more practical solution might be to seal up the side gate
2. Buffs are unbalanced, Grenth much stronger
3. Lack of terrain on mid-node makes it very hard to kite and LOS. Even if you stand on the ledges, there’s nowhere you can really kite to if a porting class like thief or guardian jumps you while on there, because unless you yourself can teleport too there’s no way to get over the barrier to side node.
4. Classes with teleports have a huge advantage in their ability to get from side nodes to mid much faster, whether to +1 a fight or to kite if they’re being damaged.
5. All the wooden hoardings make the map a little bland-looking and lacking in personality, like it’s half-finished and still under construction.

I can’t give much feedback because my game doesn’t pick the map and I don’t feel like playing other ones when I’m trying to get that specific one to actually experience how it works. :| Why not just allow beta maps in custom?

I like the arena theme but I got 3 ideas that might make it more enjoyable:

1- Make secondary exit useful or make it the main exit instead (this is where gladiators are supposed to enter the arena right?)

2-there is too much empty space that players do not use near the second exit

3- I’d like to know what’s the purpuse of the big walls near the secondary enterance, they seem to annoying for players when the game starts.

draxynnic.3719:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

zerg zerg zerg = u win

Not always. More so than most maps, I think, but I have seen games where one team was losing the teamfights but winning on rotations.

Good rotations rock on this map

I like Coliseum but the geometry is off. The distance between mid and side points is much shorter than spawn to home. It’s probably about 50% shorter or more. A team can run as a blob between the points and win by numbers rather than strategy or thought. Maybe the spawn location needs changing. Perhaps add a ramp on the right side of the platform between spawn and home point. Then you can run in more of a straight line to home. The path to mid has a giant obstacle you need to run around to get there from spawn. Don’t even know what that is. I guess making a longer route is to slow the game down a bit. If you can’t make the distance from spawn shorter for that reason the other option is to make the path between mid and sides further.

Coliseum is one of my favorite maps. Love the crowd buff, the nice open areas with some walls for cover. Please, please replace Skyhammer with Coliseum. Skyhammer is worst map by far.