Guild Wars 2

Thank you! These horrible balance changes mean that I’ll get plenty of time to play other stuff around the holidays. It’s actually refreshing to have GW2 off the table.

Praise Dwayna.
I like the change to CoR, very elegant. I assume the fact that the list is rather short means you guys take a more iterative approach to balancing?

As someone currently playing Bunker Chronomancer versus many other Bunker Chronomancers, I’m very happy to see that these balance changes are being taken in stride and feeling the waters rather than over-the-top knee-jerking nerfs. Thank you.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Balance itself is an iterative process and our work will be ongoing. We’re taking a hard look at the ways players are experiencing content across the game (raids, fractals, open world, PvP, and WvW) and we’ll be making adjustments accordingly.

That means => separating sPvP from PvE and WvW?
And maybe WvW from PvE too? (If it’s the case, I might give a try to WvW !)
Anyway if you really meant by “we’ll be making adjustments accordingly” what it really means… all I can say is that looks good and might promising !

Gaile Gray.6029:

Our next major balance update will be released at the end of January, and after the new year we plan on sharing the high-level details of those changes, giving you an opportunity to provide feedback to our design team.

Well.. end of January is normal, I’d say ! We can let you have some holidays, can’t we?
Good holidays and I hope you’ll do the rights choices concerning the balances.

I can have my pause of the game in peace now, I guess x)

Think you just made my condi engi esports again. Christmas came early I guess.

a lot more needs to be done about mesmers.

morrolan.9608:

Eurantien.4632:

Is uh… is that it?

My reaction exactly.

My reaction exactly.

waves hand in a traffic-cop motion Move along folks, nothing to see here.

So Tempest /Chrono and Reaper are going stay broken while Rev got shafted? (Because it’s one of the few spec that can actually hurt mesmer atm)

Look at your game Anet

https://youtu.be/NhYGyHhTRYk

Aomine.5012:

So Tempest /Chrono and Reaper are going stay broken while Rev got shafted? (Because it’s one of the few spec that can actually hurt mesmer atm)

Look at your game Anet

https://youtu.be/NhYGyHhTRYk

That’s exactly what i do when I 1v1 another tempest

Chris.6089:

Aomine.5012:

So Tempest /Chrono and Reaper are going stay broken while Rev got shafted? (Because it’s one of the few spec that can actually hurt mesmer atm)

Look at your game Anet

https://youtu.be/NhYGyHhTRYk

That’s exactly what i do when I 1v1 another tempest

And it’s not even the worst part.

The worst part is on all 3 nodes people can’t hurt each other at all and the game stays 0 0 forever.

This won’t change anything.

Once again anet is failing to see what needs to be done

I agree that the current meta is definitely not where the game should be, but what annoys me is that no more than a month ago after the expansion launched, people were screaming bloody murder that the current meta was a burst meta and that people lasting less than 10 seconds was bad. Now the meta has evolved into a bunker meta and the complaint is the polar opposite. It just goes to show that the hoi polloi never knows anything and thus most feedback here can be safely disregarded.

It’s better to wait and see where the meta goes and make incremental changes at best.

Kuya.6495:

I agree that the current meta is definitely not where the game should be, but what annoys me is that no more than a month ago after the expansion launched, people were screaming bloody murder that the current meta was a burst meta and that people lasting less than 10 seconds was bad. Now the meta has evolved into a bunker meta and the complaint is the polar opposite. It just goes to show that the hoi polloi never knows anything and thus most feedback here can be safely disregarded.

It’s better to wait and see where the meta goes and make incremental changes at best.

Only in the low MMR bracket that people complain about the burst. People in the high MMR bracket have the polar opposite.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/PvP-needs-to-be-fun-to-play-watch/first

Thanks for the balance.
After chrono and revenant, is it time for the following:

Tempest- Diamond Skin <—-this one is really op in my thought
Reaper- Chill dmg
Druid healing build
Engine -Sneak Gyro
Revenant: pulsating Pestilences still disabled

Buff for warrior and thief

Nearly two months for something that should have been hotfixed? Uhm, okay. Esports, boiz.

evilapprentice.6379:

Josh Davis.6015:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Upcoming-Balance-Changes-Week-of-December-14-2015

Why is Withdraw still missing the 10% base healing buff it supposedly got in the June 23rd patch?

They must have forgotten again.

It’s the ccs on the guards trap they need to nerf to the ground. Being stuck in a tiny circle for 5 seconds twice then getting pulled into more cc traps kittening sucks and is turning what was once an eSport into a joke.

Chris.6089:

Aomine.5012:

So Tempest /Chrono and Reaper are going stay broken while Rev got shafted? (Because it’s one of the few spec that can actually hurt mesmer atm)

Look at your game Anet

https://youtu.be/NhYGyHhTRYk

That’s exactly what i do when I 1v1 another tempest

It’s not like we didn’t tell Karl for 2 months that Tempest didn’t work. He just never made the changes the ele community asked for and we got stuck with this bunker boring meta.

Xillllix.3485:

Chris.6089:

Aomine.5012:

So Tempest /Chrono and Reaper are going stay broken while Rev got shafted? (Because it’s one of the few spec that can actually hurt mesmer atm)

Look at your game Anet

https://youtu.be/NhYGyHhTRYk

That’s exactly what i do when I 1v1 another tempest

It’s not like we didn’t tell Karl for 2 months that Tempest didn’t work. He just never made the changes the ele community asked for and we got stuck with this bunker boring meta.

You’re talking as if Ele is the victim here lol..

Too bad everyone knows tempest is an upgrade both defensively and offensively for an Ele, so this is irrelevant.

I will repeat what i generally said in quoted topic:

To be clear – i hate mesmers, i main a necro and don’t play a mesmer in pvp. But taking time off their block? The block has counterplay. That has got to be one of the few actually healthy defense mechanics for chrono. And it lasting longer means we get bigger window for counterplay.

Yet here you go nerfing this while leaving the absolutely ridicilous blur/evade spammage with no counter mesures i know of completely untouched…

Actually wait, hold that thought. Here I’ll give you a balance idea before you’ll gut who knows what, that has 0 relation to the real issue.
That sword #2 of theirs, that gives them blur? Make it give blur only when it’s actually hitting something. If their target moves out of the way or blocks – no more blur 4 u mesmer! That means one block or evade completely strips blur for the rest of the move’s duration. This is specifically designed with counters such as daredevil’s bandit’s defense in mind. What would be the point of taking off blur for 1s of block only, after which you’d still hit air after you automatically stopped blocking to move in for the counter?

2 cents.

If all you do is nerf those 2, you’ll still have Tempests/Druids bunkering it up like before with Scrappers providing similar sustain with higher damage-output. Gotta look at the whole picture, not just these 2.

Please take a look at passive stability.

Like the kitten Stability on dodge traits in the game, passive mindless stability really shouldn’t exist.

Arken.3725:

2 cents.

If all you do is nerf those 2, you’ll still have Tempests/Druids bunkering it up like before with Scrappers providing similar sustain with higher damage-output. Gotta look at the whole picture, not just these 2.

Agree with you here. EVERY SINGLE ELITE SPEC does too much, probably even berserker (although it is hard to tell b/c that mythical beast is rarely seen). If you nerf just the top dog, then the mantle just shifts slightly to the next guy and you don’t really change anything.

However, at least things like druid/tempest/scrapper etc. get their defense with a little more counterplay (not hard mitigation in the form of evades/blocks/invulns/etc.) making them succumb to focus-fire a bit easier. That isn’t to say they aren’t over-tuned, but since there is a stubborn refusal to do anything but the most token of balances, I’d say this the bare minimum.

At the very least, however, they should make well of precog give invuln and prevent capture-point contribution. That would at least make bunker mesmers much worse at holding 1vX for so long without getting decapped.

You’re right, i’m just looking at forgiving mechanics as a whole Blackbeard. I’m tired of passive procs, i’m tired of strong dodge-roll boons and i’m tired of skills that are overall very forgiving.

BlackBeard.2873:

Arken.3725:

2 cents.

If all you do is nerf those 2, you’ll still have Tempests/Druids bunkering it up like before with Scrappers providing similar sustain with higher damage-output. Gotta look at the whole picture, not just these 2.

Agree with you here. EVERY SINGLE ELITE SPEC does too much, probably even berserker (although it is hard to tell b/c that mythical beast is rarely seen). If you nerf just the top dog, then the mantle just shifts slightly to the next guy and you don’t really change anything.

However, at least things like druid/tempest/scrapper etc. get their defense with a little more counterplay (not hard mitigation in the form of evades/blocks/invulns/etc.) making them succumb to focus-fire a bit easier. That isn’t to say they aren’t over-tuned, but since there is a stubborn refusal to do anything but the most token of balances, I’d say this the bare minimum.

At the very least, however, they should make well of precog give invuln and prevent capture-point contribution. That would at least make bunker mesmers much worse at holding 1vX for so long without getting decapped.

You can’t simply nerf bunkers while leaving the burst builds untouched, that’s just ridiculous

-Dragon Hunter, Burn Guardian, Thief, Chronoshatter, Reaper…these are not gone anywhere, they’re still here with us

Extreme bunkers exist as a consequence of Extreme Burst

So thief is “extreme” burst? This isn’t 2014. Also burn guards while annoying, are easily countered.

Thx for reducing the blocktime. Now i can share my boons faster =D*facepalm

Lyger.5429:

So thief is “extreme” burst? This isn’t 2014. Also burn guards while annoying, are easily countered.

Thief is not extreme burst?…Just stop using your bunker build and see how that works for you and burn guard? …Again drop your bunker with plenty of condi clear and try to play simple DPS build with 1-2 condi clear…it’ll be fun

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

Arken.3725:

2 cents.

If all you do is nerf those 2, you’ll still have Tempests/Druids bunkering it up like before with Scrappers providing similar sustain with higher damage-output. Gotta look at the whole picture, not just these 2.

Agree with you here. EVERY SINGLE ELITE SPEC does too much, probably even berserker (although it is hard to tell b/c that mythical beast is rarely seen). If you nerf just the top dog, then the mantle just shifts slightly to the next guy and you don’t really change anything.

However, at least things like druid/tempest/scrapper etc. get their defense with a little more counterplay (not hard mitigation in the form of evades/blocks/invulns/etc.) making them succumb to focus-fire a bit easier. That isn’t to say they aren’t over-tuned, but since there is a stubborn refusal to do anything but the most token of balances, I’d say this the bare minimum.

At the very least, however, they should make well of precog give invuln and prevent capture-point contribution. That would at least make bunker mesmers much worse at holding 1vX for so long without getting decapped.

You can’t simply nerf bunkers while leaving the burst builds untouched, that’s just ridiculous

-Dragon Hunter, Burn Guardian, Thief, Chronoshatter, Reaper…these are not gone anywhere, they’re still here with us

Extreme bunkers exist as a consequence of Extreme Burst

Na, the current top bunker builds can handle any burst build 1 v 2 pretty handily because it uses active invulnerable/evade/block on a short cool down or some passive perma -40% damage, passive aura spam, passive on swap trait/sigil, passive heal, passive immune cond to soak up everything.

The broken part is those bunkers not only hold well against 1 v x, it also is very good at 1 v 1. If you use a non-bunker against them, you not only can’t kill them, they also have quite a high chance to kill you instead.

Best example is Tempest VS Thief/Daredevil. Tempest not only can soak up everything thief throws at them easily, they can also use their passive proc and aoe spam to kill thief passively. The only option thief has is disengage and let tempest get the node, losing a node, and causing the game. (In current meta, if you lose node first and the other team has 3+ bunkers, you pretty much lose the game already)

If you don’t believe, que up your thief right now in ranked battle and see how it fair right now.

Supreme.3164:

Lyger.5429:

So thief is “extreme” burst? This isn’t 2014. Also burn guards while annoying, are easily countered.

Thief is not extreme burst?…Just stop using your bunker build and see how that works for you and burn guard? …Again drop your bunker with plenty of condi clear and try to play simple DPS build with 1-2 condi clear…it’ll be fun

A pure glass thief hits me for around 9k, a zerker warrior hits me for 13k with eviscerate, a mesmer for 13k+ with his shatter combo, revenants hammer for 8-16k.
ETA: In wvw – I have no idea about the numbers in pvp- but I guess even there “every other class” hits higher than thief.

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

Arken.3725:

2 cents.

If all you do is nerf those 2, you’ll still have Tempests/Druids bunkering it up like before with Scrappers providing similar sustain with higher damage-output. Gotta look at the whole picture, not just these 2.

Agree with you here. EVERY SINGLE ELITE SPEC does too much, probably even berserker (although it is hard to tell b/c that mythical beast is rarely seen). If you nerf just the top dog, then the mantle just shifts slightly to the next guy and you don’t really change anything.

However, at least things like druid/tempest/scrapper etc. get their defense with a little more counterplay (not hard mitigation in the form of evades/blocks/invulns/etc.) making them succumb to focus-fire a bit easier. That isn’t to say they aren’t over-tuned, but since there is a stubborn refusal to do anything but the most token of balances, I’d say this the bare minimum.

At the very least, however, they should make well of precog give invuln and prevent capture-point contribution. That would at least make bunker mesmers much worse at holding 1vX for so long without getting decapped.

You can’t simply nerf bunkers while leaving the burst builds untouched, that’s just ridiculous

-Dragon Hunter, Burn Guardian, Thief, Chronoshatter, Reaper…these are not gone anywhere, they’re still here with us

Extreme bunkers exist as a consequence of Extreme Burst

Your argument is rhetorical. One could argue at extreme burst builds exist because of extreme bunkers. Of course neither of these statements have anything to do with why the meta is the way it is so let me enlighten.

Play to win: extreme bunkers are the strongest point holders in a game of conquest where taking and holding points indefinetly is the assured means to victory. In one circle there’s even money on the line.

This is why extreme bunkers exist, theyre the strongest approach to victory right now.

Aomine.5012:

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

Arken.3725:

2 cents.

If all you do is nerf those 2, you’ll still have Tempests/Druids bunkering it up like before with Scrappers providing similar sustain with higher damage-output. Gotta look at the whole picture, not just these 2.

Agree with you here. EVERY SINGLE ELITE SPEC does too much, probably even berserker (although it is hard to tell b/c that mythical beast is rarely seen). If you nerf just the top dog, then the mantle just shifts slightly to the next guy and you don’t really change anything.

However, at least things like druid/tempest/scrapper etc. get their defense with a little more counterplay (not hard mitigation in the form of evades/blocks/invulns/etc.) making them succumb to focus-fire a bit easier. That isn’t to say they aren’t over-tuned, but since there is a stubborn refusal to do anything but the most token of balances, I’d say this the bare minimum.

At the very least, however, they should make well of precog give invuln and prevent capture-point contribution. That would at least make bunker mesmers much worse at holding 1vX for so long without getting decapped.

You can’t simply nerf bunkers while leaving the burst builds untouched, that’s just ridiculous

-Dragon Hunter, Burn Guardian, Thief, Chronoshatter, Reaper…these are not gone anywhere, they’re still here with us

Extreme bunkers exist as a consequence of Extreme Burst

Na, the current top bunker builds can handle any burst build 1 v 2 pretty handily because it uses active invulnerable/evade/block on a short cool down or some passive perma -40% damage, passive aura spam, passive on swap trait/sigil, passive heal, passive immune cond to soak up everything.

The broken part is those bunkers not only hold well against 1 v x, it also is very good at 1 v 1. If you use a non-bunker against them, you not only can’t kill them, they also have quite a high chance to kill you instead.

Best example is Tempest VS Thief/Daredevil. Tempest can soak up everything thief throws at them , they can also easily use their passive proc and aoe spam to kill thief passively. If you don’t believe, que up your thief right now in ranked battle and see how it fair right now.

The question is..can you play a non bunker ele in general and not being one shotted by a thief or other power build? In three years nobody has been able to do that, no even TOP ESL players like @Zoose and @Phantaram.
But apparently being unable to play a non bunker ele …it’s ok, it’s balanced.

Here the best quote you’ll ever read on the forum

Vague Memory.2817
Anet trys to balance using self-interested views from the forum rather than being more objective, that is why after a balance patch things just get worse. There are blatant changes that need to be made that focuses PvP on player skill rather than passive or op effects, but they don’t have the courage to make these changes because of the outrage from people who will lose their advantage over others. Anet’s response is to even things out by giving everyone OPness which unbalances things even more.

Supreme.3164:

Aomine.5012:

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

Arken.3725:

2 cents.

If all you do is nerf those 2, you’ll still have Tempests/Druids bunkering it up like before with Scrappers providing similar sustain with higher damage-output. Gotta look at the whole picture, not just these 2.

Agree with you here. EVERY SINGLE ELITE SPEC does too much, probably even berserker (although it is hard to tell b/c that mythical beast is rarely seen). If you nerf just the top dog, then the mantle just shifts slightly to the next guy and you don’t really change anything.

However, at least things like druid/tempest/scrapper etc. get their defense with a little more counterplay (not hard mitigation in the form of evades/blocks/invulns/etc.) making them succumb to focus-fire a bit easier. That isn’t to say they aren’t over-tuned, but since there is a stubborn refusal to do anything but the most token of balances, I’d say this the bare minimum.

At the very least, however, they should make well of precog give invuln and prevent capture-point contribution. That would at least make bunker mesmers much worse at holding 1vX for so long without getting decapped.

You can’t simply nerf bunkers while leaving the burst builds untouched, that’s just ridiculous

-Dragon Hunter, Burn Guardian, Thief, Chronoshatter, Reaper…these are not gone anywhere, they’re still here with us

Extreme bunkers exist as a consequence of Extreme Burst

Na, the current top bunker builds can handle any burst build 1 v 2 pretty handily because it uses active invulnerable/evade/block on a short cool down or some passive perma -40% damage, passive aura spam, passive on swap trait/sigil, passive heal, passive immune cond to soak up everything.

The broken part is those bunkers not only hold well against 1 v x, it also is very good at 1 v 1. If you use a non-bunker against them, you not only can’t kill them, they also have quite a high chance to kill you instead.

Best example is Tempest VS Thief/Daredevil. Tempest can soak up everything thief throws at them , they can also easily use their passive proc and aoe spam to kill thief passively. If you don’t believe, que up your thief right now in ranked battle and see how it fair right now.

The question is..can you play a non bunker ele in general and not being one shotted by a thief or other power build? In three years nobody has been able to do that, no even TOP ESL players like @Zoose and @Phantaram.
But apparently being unable to play a non bunker ele …it’s ok, it’s balanced.

Here the best quote you’ll ever read on the forum

Vague Memory.2817
Anet trys to balance using self-interested views from the forum rather than being more objective, that is why after a balance patch things just get worse. There are blatant changes that need to be made that focuses PvP on player skill rather than passive or op effects, but they don’t have the courage to make these changes because of the outrage from people who will lose their advantage over others. Anet’s response is to even things out by giving everyone OPness which unbalances things even more.

So the solution is throwing a D/D 2.0 to Tempest.

Make sense.

But all being said, I do like Tempest very much and don’t want them lose this bunker ability that’d make Tempest suffer in HoT maps or raid.
Wish Anet just freaking separate pve and pvp skills already and nerf everything to ground in pvp for the balance.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

Arken.3725:

2 cents.

If all you do is nerf those 2, you’ll still have Tempests/Druids bunkering it up like before with Scrappers providing similar sustain with higher damage-output. Gotta look at the whole picture, not just these 2.

Agree with you here. EVERY SINGLE ELITE SPEC does too much, probably even berserker (although it is hard to tell b/c that mythical beast is rarely seen). If you nerf just the top dog, then the mantle just shifts slightly to the next guy and you don’t really change anything.

However, at least things like druid/tempest/scrapper etc. get their defense with a little more counterplay (not hard mitigation in the form of evades/blocks/invulns/etc.) making them succumb to focus-fire a bit easier. That isn’t to say they aren’t over-tuned, but since there is a stubborn refusal to do anything but the most token of balances, I’d say this the bare minimum.

At the very least, however, they should make well of precog give invuln and prevent capture-point contribution. That would at least make bunker mesmers much worse at holding 1vX for so long without getting decapped.

You can’t simply nerf bunkers while leaving the burst builds untouched, that’s just ridiculous

-Dragon Hunter, Burn Guardian, Thief, Chronoshatter, Reaper…these are not gone anywhere, they’re still here with us

Extreme bunkers exist as a consequence of Extreme Burst

Your argument is rhetorical. One could argue at extreme burst builds exist because of extreme bunkers. Of course neither of these statements have anything to do with why the meta is the way it is so let me enlighten.

Play to win: extreme bunkers are the strongest point holders in a game of conquest where taking and holding points indefinetly is the assured means to victory. In one circle there’s even money on the line.

This is why extreme bunkers exist, theyre the strongest approach to victory right now.

Feel free to create a thread where you list suggestions on how to give bunker classes, a viable DPS build..I’m all ears and before I conclude let me rephrase my sentence :extreme bunker exist because those professions can’t play extreme burst

Thief don’t 1 shot anyone anymore. They have been officially removed off the “Extreme Burst” list.

Also even if we removed thieves from the game (why you focus,on such a insignificant class for you argument is beyond me) no one would play glass period. In fact going back to the last few metal this fact remains the same due to bunkers/bruisers far outclassing glass in terms of effectiveness.

Heck even in 1v1s most glass builds were stronger vs a thief.

The bunker specs need to go. The masses have spoken and will be assuring anet feels their displeasure in their pockets.

Aomine.5012:

Supreme.3164:

Aomine.5012:

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

Arken.3725:

2 cents.

If all you do is nerf those 2, you’ll still have Tempests/Druids bunkering it up like before with Scrappers providing similar sustain with higher damage-output. Gotta look at the whole picture, not just these 2.

Agree with you here. EVERY SINGLE ELITE SPEC does too much, probably even berserker (although it is hard to tell b/c that mythical beast is rarely seen). If you nerf just the top dog, then the mantle just shifts slightly to the next guy and you don’t really change anything.

However, at least things like druid/tempest/scrapper etc. get their defense with a little more counterplay (not hard mitigation in the form of evades/blocks/invulns/etc.) making them succumb to focus-fire a bit easier. That isn’t to say they aren’t over-tuned, but since there is a stubborn refusal to do anything but the most token of balances, I’d say this the bare minimum.

At the very least, however, they should make well of precog give invuln and prevent capture-point contribution. That would at least make bunker mesmers much worse at holding 1vX for so long without getting decapped.

You can’t simply nerf bunkers while leaving the burst builds untouched, that’s just ridiculous

-Dragon Hunter, Burn Guardian, Thief, Chronoshatter, Reaper…these are not gone anywhere, they’re still here with us

Extreme bunkers exist as a consequence of Extreme Burst

Na, the current top bunker builds can handle any burst build 1 v 2 pretty handily because it uses active invulnerable/evade/block on a short cool down or some passive perma -40% damage, passive aura spam, passive on swap trait/sigil, passive heal, passive immune cond to soak up everything.

The broken part is those bunkers not only hold well against 1 v x, it also is very good at 1 v 1. If you use a non-bunker against them, you not only can’t kill them, they also have quite a high chance to kill you instead.

Best example is Tempest VS Thief/Daredevil. Tempest can soak up everything thief throws at them , they can also easily use their passive proc and aoe spam to kill thief passively. If you don’t believe, que up your thief right now in ranked battle and see how it fair right now.

The question is..can you play a non bunker ele in general and not being one shotted by a thief or other power build? In three years nobody has been able to do that, no even TOP ESL players like @Zoose and @Phantaram.
But apparently being unable to play a non bunker ele …it’s ok, it’s balanced.

Here the best quote you’ll ever read on the forum

Vague Memory.2817
Anet trys to balance using self-interested views from the forum rather than being more objective, that is why after a balance patch things just get worse. There are blatant changes that need to be made that focuses PvP on player skill rather than passive or op effects, but they don’t have the courage to make these changes because of the outrage from people who will lose their advantage over others. Anet’s response is to even things out by giving everyone OPness which unbalances things even more.

So the solution is throwing a D/D 2.0 to Tempest.

Make sense.

But all being said, I do like Tempest very much and don’t want them lose this bunker ability that’d make Tempest suffer in HoT maps or raid.
Wish Anet just freaking separate pve and pvp skills already and nerf everything to ground in pvp for the balance.

What kind of answer is even this?

You answer to a question with a rhetoric

Azukas.1426:

Thief don’t 1 shot anyone anymore. They have been officially removed off the “Extreme Burst” list.

Also even if we removed thieves from the game (why you focus,on such a insignificant class for you argument is beyond me) no one would play glass period. In fact going back to the last few metal this fact remains the same due to bunkers/bruisers far outclassing glass in terms of effectiveness.

Heck even in 1v1s most glass builds were stronger vs a thief.

The bunker specs need to go. The masses have spoken and will be assuring anet feels their displeasure in their pockets.

The masses don’t get how balance process works, a balance process centered around overall forum happiness rather than objective decision, it’s a two face coin

If you nerf one side only, the other side will become the overperforming one, resulting in its eventual nerf soon or later; if you nerf bunkers..then burst will become too much to handle..and the masses will speak again :-)

Just split the game modes already, you will in the end limit both pve and pvp/wvw builds by keeping trait effects and skill effects the same throughout game modes, that way you can add stronger party support in PvE for classes that need it (Thief, Necro) and buff the PvP classes that are weak and not make them absurdly easy for PvE (Warrior). Edit: seems that Revenant is pigeonholed to a single build for all 3 game modes

Aomine.5012:

So Tempest /Chrono and Reaper are going stay broken while Rev got shafted? (Because it’s one of the few spec that can actually hurt mesmer atm)

Look at your game Anet

https://youtu.be/NhYGyHhTRYk

I’m actually more concerned about Tempest than Chrono.
I can’t seem to kill a good Tempest on certain professions, Mallyx Rev was an exception, and likewise, my Tempest cannot be killed by certain professions/builds.

I’m sure they know a lot more needs to be done, but the fact that a small balance patch is coming sooner than the usual “oh one will come at the end of the season and whatnot” is great news.

Supreme.3164:

Azukas.1426:

Thief don’t 1 shot anyone anymore. They have been officially removed off the “Extreme Burst” list.

Also even if we removed thieves from the game (why you focus,on such a insignificant class for you argument is beyond me) no one would play glass period. In fact going back to the last few metal this fact remains the same due to bunkers/bruisers far outclassing glass in terms of effectiveness.

Heck even in 1v1s most glass builds were stronger vs a thief.

The bunker specs need to go. The masses have spoken and will be assuring anet feels their displeasure in their pockets.

The masses don’t get how balance process works, a balance process centered around overall forum happiness rather than objective decision, it’s a two face coin

If you nerf one side only, the other side will become the overperforming one, resulting in its eventual nerf soon or later; if you nerf bunkers..then burst will become too much to handle..and the masses will speak again :-)

The masses have preaching since HoT’s release that this terrible meta will come about. They also stated chrono, rev, and Tempest are over performing.

Look at who’s right?

Look at which who’s choice of balance has created the game killing meta of today.

I don’t know which class you play but I main a mesmer. I say nerf me into the ground because a healthy gw2 pvp scene is FAR greater than my personal class preference.

I only have a few things to say to arenanet regarding balancing:

• Shave down things that are OP atm, to a point where everyone can compete with everyone. The pvp meta should be a mixture between support and dps. Too much damage, and you get a berserker fest. Too much support, and you get what we have now, a stalemate fest. Its called balance for a reason. The berserker meta lasted for a long time, and now you have taken it to the extreme the other way, middle ground is key. I dont think you are far off acheiving balance, I feel thief and warrior is almost exactly where they should be atm in their respective roles, and its only a matter of toning down the rest of the professions support capabilities so they match (balance out) with those two classes.

• Every class should have a place in the metagame, excelling at different things that all are useful in a pvp setting, either it be support or dps. This way the community can use their creativity to come up with many different ways of applying the balance between dps and support/heal, with all the different professions and builds. No class should be excluded. Each class is unique and exciting to me, and with the new elite specializations I feel you have all the tools in ur hands to acheive this balance. Take a look at the top players and tournaments, if there is a profession that never is being used, obviously that profession is sub par compared to the other professions, and needs to be level out.

• I understand your struggle of getting this right, seen as it is a very complicated matter. But Im thinking if the task is too overwhelming, why not hire someone who has expertise in this area, seen as balance is an extremely important aspect of the game, and is ultimately what will keep players interested in your game, in addition to all the exciting content you have created for us. I love guild wars 2, now its all a matter of making every profession viable, so everyone can play their class without feeling bad.

• One last thing is actually regarding stealth, this topic has been discussed to death, but I need to say something about it anyways. PvP is all about having control, and being able to visibly counter what your opponents do, this is what makes a skillful player. But stealth messes with this aspect, without seeing your opponent you have no/very little control of the situation, and this is what frustrated people regarding thief at the beginning. Giving all the other professions stealth as well, does not solve the problem IMO, it just makes pvp a bit more random. Staff thief is as good as thief has ever been in terms of class mechanichs I think, evades and dodges are much more appealing than 90% stealth uptime.

Everyone who get 1/2 shotted by a thief should simply start watching the screen and their char’s back while playing… don’t be surprised to get a backstab if you stand on a high wall near mid in the foefire without watching your surrounding. Playing braindead zerker and complaining about getting downed quickly is just… ridiculous. People hate thieves because having one in the opposite team means you gotta THINK, and people like to spam hard CCs and AOEs and see big numbers without thinking too much.
Note: that was theoretical. There’s not even 1 single thief build that can 1 shot somebody. Not even the signet-kamikaza. Backstab can get a maximum of 9k atm, and requires a hell lot of set ups to actually land it. Not to mention you’re most likely to get hit by random AOE or passive trait or stuff like that even before you land it. People who complain about thieves make me get amused and angry at the same time…

Reem.3578:

Everyone who get 1/2 shotted by a thief should simply start watching the screen and their char’s back while playing… don’t be surprised to get a backstab if you stand on a high wall near mid in the foefire without watching your surrounding. Playing braindead zerker and complaining about getting downed quickly is just… ridiculous. People hate thieves because having one in the opposite team means you gotta THINK, and people like to spam hard CCs and AOEs and see big numbers without thinking too much.
Note: that was theoretical. There’s not even 1 single thief build that can 1 shot somebody. Not even the signet-kamikaza. Backstab can get a maximum of 9k atm, and requires a hell lot of set ups to actually land it. Not to mention you’re most likely to get hit by random AOE or passive trait or stuff like that even before you land it. People who complain about thieves make me get amused and angry at the same time…

But… but the E-spot Dream

Ah, nvm it’s just a dream anyway.
If they ever care about E-sport, they should have just split PVE and PVP ages ago.

And hell, play thief for a little bit and come back to complain about stealth… it’s obvious. I can time my GS block as a ranger with the incoming backstab (yeah i already did… more than once). Pop up aegis, use AOEs, use some traits.. BE CREATIVE. That’s all there is to it. Think. Don’t spam abilities and expect to see everything running right into your face shouting and announcing their presence. PvP should be a matter of strategy and creativity under pressure, not spamming random stuff.

@Aomine
lol
Yeah, having almost the same balance for pve and pvp is kinda bad :/ though i think seperating them isn’t really practical.. like, creating different teams and trying to get everything right sounds like one big mess.
I still hope it’ll happen someday

You have to remember ANET didnt want to put a fix in until after the PRO League break. Last matches were yesterday. New matches are not till January so the Pro teams can practice with the new changes.

eSPORTS!!!

Asato.5479:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Balance itself is an iterative process and our work will be ongoing. We’re taking a hard look at the ways players are experiencing content across the game (raids, fractals, open world, PvP, and WvW) and we’ll be making adjustments accordingly.

That means => separating sPvP from PvE and WvW?
And maybe WvW from PvE too? (If it’s the case, I might give a try to WvW !)
Anyway if you really meant by “we’ll be making adjustments accordingly” what it really means… all I can say is that looks good and might promising !

Gaile Gray.6029:

Our next major balance update will be released at the end of January, and after the new year we plan on sharing the high-level details of those changes, giving you an opportunity to provide feedback to our design team.

Well.. end of January is normal, I’d say ! We can let you have some holidays, can’t we?
Good holidays and I hope you’ll do the rights choices concerning the balances.

I can have my pause of the game in peace now, I guess x)

Yeah the expansion hasn’t been out since Late October. I mean a couple of balance changes in three months is totally reasonable. Wouldn’t want to infringe on there holidays! I don’t understand the whole idea of being totally satisfied with a couple of scraps. That type of attitude imo does nothing to pressure these companies into doing what’s right. We have very little leverage to begin with but sucking up is the worst strategy.

Thief is a victim of it’s own game mechanics and how Anet progressed the PvP powercreep.

Thief has no viable bunker and no viable support so the only thing that is left is damage… with damage you have two options:

1) Either the thief is able to (nearly) oneshot people. Then he is extremely OP because of his stealth and disengage, he just resets the fight and tries again to oneshot you; no escape.

2) Or he isn’t able to oneshot anyone.. then he is basically useless because whenever he tries to engage he runs high risk of dying to direct damage or some aoe.

As long as this is the extend of thief mechanics he will always be OP or useless, never balanced.

Starfall.6425:

Thief is a victim of it’s own game mechanics and how Anet progressed the PvP powercreep.

Thief has no viable bunker and no viable support so the only thing that is left is damage… with damage you have two options:

1) Either the thief is able to (nearly) oneshot people. Then he is extremely OP because of his stealth and disengage, he just resets the fight and tries again to oneshot you; no escape.

2) Or he isn’t able to oneshot anyone.. then he is basically useless because whenever he tries to engage he runs high risk of dying to direct damage or some aoe.

As long as this is the extend of thief mechanics he will always be OP or useless, never balanced.

Yeah that sounds right.
The only team support thieves had (to some extent) was stealth rezzing. Then came HoT with AOEs, hard CCs and tons of reveals flying around.
To make thieves balanced from the support aspect, there’s need to totally remake that class, because inserting random stuff with the next eSpecs won’t solve anything :/
Now imo, the problem is to find somebody from the balance team that cares about it