Guild Wars 2

The blog post about sPvP Leagues is out: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-pvp-leagues/

There is a TL;DR below at the end.

This still doesn’t solve some of my fears about it and last iterations of the point system Test Leaderboard. One of the main problems it had was its “farm nature”, as we could see people with, for example, 400 matches and a 48% win rate on the top of the Leaderboard.

It’s true that in the Second Test Season the top players on the Leaderboard were well above the 50% winrate mark, proving the changes they made were valid. But I will explain my fears on this topic in Leagues.

Okey, we have 6 different Divisions, from Amber to Legendary Division. This means that “Ranked Playerbase” should be distributed “equally” between this Divisions, showing different skill levels in each of them.

We can say, Amber has players with a MMR of 2 (out of max 10, for example). In the end, Legendary should have players with a MMR of 9 and 10 or rather the top MMR players. Middle Divisions should have all the other MMR players distributed. Sounds good, in this case Legendary Division, the very top of the League system will showcase the best players in the game, this will give them recognition!

But… the blog post didn’t say explicitly anything to solve this “farm it” problem. Of course, people with less than 50% win rate, won’t go to upper Divisions, because you can lose tiers and all.

The problem lies: If a guy has a MMR of 4, ideally he will get matched with other MMR of 4 players. If this guy is slightly better than the others, he will have a win ratio above 50%, letting him advance into other tiers and Divisions… until he reaches Legendary Division, where supposedly the top players should be.

That player is good, he has more than 50% win ratio, but he’s still a MMR of 4 (that will grow obviously because he has a win ratio above 50%) in Legendary Division.

Therefore, I don’t know if my suggestion is already in the system they want to put on Leagues but Matchmaking should take into account both player MMR and Division.

If Matchmaking takes into account Division, this will stop players from farming matches and start growing skill-wise, because they will get stuck at one Division. If you have a MMR of 4, but you are in the Diamond Division somehow, you will get matched with people on that Division, which should have a MMR of 6 or 7. Those guys should win over the lower skilled guy, making him drop and forcing him to get better if he wants to go higher.

In the end, this are just initial thoughts/fears on the sPvP Leagues feature and its implementation might prove me wrong.

TL;DR :
- The farm nature of previous Ladders can still be preserved into the League system. (Bad Thing)
- Players below 50% winrate should not get high into Divisions. (Good Thing).
- Ideally, Legendary Division should showcase the most skilled players (Good Thing).
- As the blog post sounded, a guy with a MMR of 4 could get into Legendary Division (Bad Thing).
- If this is the case, Matchmaking should take into account current Division to stop this (Suggestion). Obviously, in the case this isn’t already implemented.

So yeah, just some initial thoughts about the announcement. Discussion is welcome!

P.S.: As I said, tying Matchmaking to Divisions may not even be necessary and I’m just over-exaggerating this!

I started a thread already but might be good to keep things in one thread.

Copypasta:

Not much new information sadly.
No mention of the queue system, no mention of a league/LB split for conquest/stronghold. No mention of hardlimits in MMR (e.g. impossible for starter to go up against legendary, etc.).
It all looks good, but crucial information is lacking.
This system will just be a better farm with a bit better progression then now which will still reward time over skill.

butch.8136:

I started a thread already but might be good to keep things in one thread.

Copypasta:

Not much new information sadly.
No mention of the queue system, no mention of a league/LB split for conquest/stronghold. No mention of hardlimits in MMR (e.g. impossible for starter to go up against legendary, etc.).
It all looks good, but crucial information is lacking.
This system will just be a better farm with a bit better progression then now which will still reward time over skill.

Woops, my bad. I spent a fair 20-30 minutes writing it, so… I should have supposed someone would have done a post alreday! I’ll go and post in yours shortly as well then, or should we keep it on this one?

You’ll never go back to a previous division during a season however, so if you’re having a bad streak, there is a limit to how far you can fall.

I’m sorry Grouch, but that sounds like a farm-board to me. Players should drop in divisions if they have been losing really badly, and I think they would accept that fact.

manysongsgw.2931:

You’ll never go back to a previous division during a season however, so if you’re having a bad streak, there is a limit to how far you can fall.

I’m sorry Grouch, but that sounds like a farm-board to me. Players should drop in divisions if they have been losing really badly, and I think they would accept that fact.

They don’t seem to have re-introduced soloQ, so solo-players will inevitably reach the division ganked by pre-made teams full force…and there you have no chance to win

Supreme.3164:

manysongsgw.2931:

You’ll never go back to a previous division during a season however, so if you’re having a bad streak, there is a limit to how far you can fall.

I’m sorry Grouch, but that sounds like a farm-board to me. Players should drop in divisions if they have been losing really badly, and I think they would accept that fact.

They don’t seem to have re-introduced soloQ, so solo-players will inevitably reach the division ganked by pre-made teams full force…and there you have no chance to win

It’s not impossible to win games against premades while solo q-ing (I’ve done it plenty of times). If matchmaking worked as intended, the other pugs on your team are hopefully around your skill level.

If they’re not, matchmaking knows your chances of winning, so if you lose when it knows you will, you won’t lose pips, or something like that.

Others have the same question, but I don’t understand the answer.

Question 1:
How will this be different than the current leaderboards which are farm based. How do you ensure that the top leagues are really the top players and not just those who play a lot.

Question 2:
How will this work for solo players? It is a lot harder to win consistently as a solo player vs with a premade. Will the system account for that?

Supreme.3164:

manysongsgw.2931:

You’ll never go back to a previous division during a season however, so if you’re having a bad streak, there is a limit to how far you can fall.

I’m sorry Grouch, but that sounds like a farm-board to me. Players should drop in divisions if they have been losing really badly, and I think they would accept that fact.

They don’t seem to have re-introduced soloQ, so solo-players will inevitably reach the division ganked by pre-made teams full force…and there you have no chance to win

this is prob correct…

the hope, fo mi at least, is

1. this will bring some more players into pvp,
2. which will up pop to a point where the devs can feel comfy giving soloq back to us,
3. which will bring pop up even moar,
4. which will let them feel comfy giving us gw1 RA,
5. which will make me happy w/ pvp 1ce again.

tldr
hopefully 3 years frum now i’ll have RA

I hope I am wrong, but I am envisioning Leagues to just be another grind in the style of “animal ranks”. The closest thing to a positive I saw in the blog was the mention of Guild Leaderboards. This seems like it will be the true ranking system for teams, and the closest thing to a PvP leaderboard we will be getting.

But then what happens if it is a big guild or one with a desire to have multiple teams? Are you forcing us to pick 1 team? Do all of the ranked games under the guild tag count toward the leaderboard (regardless of which members are playing?). Thinking about this, I think many players will make small guilds of 5-10 players for serious leaderboard play. Another failure.

Still not reverting back the team and solo queue combination? Well then this whole league idea is laughable then

Celtus.8456:

I hope I am wrong, but I am envisioning Leagues to just be another grind in the style of “animal ranks”. The closest thing to a positive I saw in the blog was the mention of Guild Leaderboards. This seems like it will be the true ranking system for teams, and the closest thing to a PvP leaderboard we will be getting.

But then what happens if it is a big guild or one with a desire to have multiple teams? Are you forcing us to pick 1 team? Do all of the ranked games under the guild tag count toward the leaderboard (regardless of which members are playing?). Thinking about this, I think many players will make small guilds of 5-10 players for serious leaderboard play. Another failure.

You can be a part of multiple teams and the rewards is based on the team performance as a whole not the guild. It was in the announcement but i guess they forgot to put it in the blog post.

Please guys, try to bring solutions as well. If you think that the new League system, with the information so far, is likely to be a “Grind League System”, bring possible solutions.

In my case, as I pointed out in the initial post, the solution if the Grind was the case, would be to tie Matchmaking to Divisions, this way high MMR players will stay in higher Divisions while kicking out lower skilled players!

Stay constructive and keep the SoloQ issues Salt level low.

They basically copied Hearthstone’s rank system which has a ton of flaws and Anet made it even more casual.

The two obvious problems:

- The system feels like a grind. Anyone that is decent (51% winrate) and plays enough can get legendary in Hearthstone. It should be even easier here since you can’t lose divisions. This means that even a 45% winrate can get a good luck streak and achieve better ranks if he plays a lot.

- Since you can’t lose divisions it’s extremely easy to wintrade. You can just sync queue at 5 am and let the opponent win.

My greatest fear:

- They will just “translate” the current system. One current ladder point will become one pipe. This is obviously a disaster because you just need to play a ton of games to be the highest under this algorithm.

Solutions:

- Split soloQ & teamQ
- You are only protected from loses in the 1st division. You can de-rank anytime past 1st division.
- The Pipes are not tied to scoreboards. You either lose or you win.

Chicho Gosho.6507:

Celtus.8456:

I hope I am wrong, but I am envisioning Leagues to just be another grind in the style of “animal ranks”. The closest thing to a positive I saw in the blog was the mention of Guild Leaderboards. This seems like it will be the true ranking system for teams, and the closest thing to a PvP leaderboard we will be getting.

But then what happens if it is a big guild or one with a desire to have multiple teams? Are you forcing us to pick 1 team? Do all of the ranked games under the guild tag count toward the leaderboard (regardless of which members are playing?). Thinking about this, I think many players will make small guilds of 5-10 players for serious leaderboard play. Another failure.

You can be a part of multiple teams and the rewards is based on the team performance as a whole not the guild. It was in the announcement but i guess they forgot to put it in the blog post.

As long as you can form multiple teams per guild, each with separate leaderboard consideration (and, I’d think, a unique name for each), then it sounds like it can work.

I think leagues will work for 5v5 pre-made queuing.
But solo queueing is, and will still be, a nightmare. Unfortunately this game is heavily reliant on 2 things; build(bunkers over zerkers) and communication(can we out rotate the opposition). Yolo queue has neither most of the time. Class stacking/ being out compd before the game even begins is still an issue, as well as pug v premade.

Finally, if they insist on creating a PERSONAL leaderboard in a TEAM focused pvp game, it will never ever work. The league standings have to be based on the team rooster and not the individual. I never understood why 5v5 premade queuing affected a personal rating on the LB. Logic out the window.

Any news on if they will separate pugs and premades again?

Poliator.7021:

Please guys, try to bring solutions as well. If you think that the new League system, with the information so far, is likely to be a “Grind League System”, bring possible solutions.

In my case, as I pointed out in the initial post, the solution if the Grind was the case, would be to tie Matchmaking to Divisions, this way high MMR players will stay in higher Divisions while kicking out lower skilled players!

Stay constructive and keep the SoloQ issues Salt level low.

There would need to be some mingling between the similar leagues though, otherwise we have longer queues than ever (and still forced to sit in this god kitten zone).

Another solution I’m really mad at is the carebear approach of “If you reach x score you don’t lose pips” – no. This is bad. Unless that score is ~490, this is a really horrible, non-competitive solution.

If you lost the match, you lost the match. Don’t sugarcoat it, make them lose those pips. This is infuriating. We are so close to finally have a working system, and then they would mess this up with this carebear approach.

Competitive or PvE casual, pick your target audience for PvP already because you can’t have both.

witcher.3197:

Another solution I’m really mad at is the carebear approach of “If you reach x score you don’t lose pips” – no. This is bad. Unless that score is ~490, this is a really horrible, non-competitive solution.

Actually, it seems to me this exist to prevent players from giving up when things snowball or when solo players are grouped against premade teams (assuming solo and premades are not separate).

The simple fact that they are PvPing automatically means they are not by definition carebears by any logical and sane definition of the word.

witcher.3197:

Another solution I’m really mad at is the carebear approach of “If you reach x score you don’t lose pips” – no. This is bad. Unless that score is ~490, this is a really horrible, non-competitive solution.

If you lost the match, you lost the match. Don’t sugarcoat it, make them lose those pips. This is infuriating. We are so close to finally have a working system, and then they would mess this up with this carebear approach.

Competitive or PvE casual, pick your target audience for PvP already because you can’t have both.

You missed the part, where they said that you don’t lose pips IF you are matched vs. teams you shouldn’t win against and reach x score. So this way it’s fine if you do good against teams you should lose against, because it rewards good players. The real problem is the way of thinking how matchmaking work: People don’t want to play against teams when it is determined to lose against just by mmr system. They want to play against players on the same skill-level. So if you are matched vs. players on same mmr there is no need to reward players if they reach x score.

Okay. Here is my interpretation of the blog post which should address some issues you have here…

During a season, players begin in the starter division and earn their way up to the next by defeating other players within their division …

You have to defeat players within your division.(Although I think you can get matchups against weaker or stronger opponents aswell.) There is a huge difference to the old system in which matchmaking was based on your rating and not your position on the ladder. Therefore I think it will be much harder to farm.

Winning a match guarantees you a pip, and in some cases you won’t need to win—you’ll simply need to beat a required score threshold if you’re matched against a team outside your skill bracket.

This is very important and I also think it will translate to playing against a premade team. As you might remember ANet calculates a win percentage for your team. Based on this win percentage you will be awarded pips. (just like points in previous seasons) This system however HAS to be adjusted. It was way too easy not to lose points by losing a game. I propose the points you have to score should be adjusted. This should lift a little bit of the fear of SoloQ. I do think Solo- and TeamQ should stay together since there are not enough players as it is and if you split the queue this will only get worse. But you could give SoloQers a little title to show people you reached your Leauge by SoloQing.

While earning badges is seasonal, anyone who makes it into the Legendary Division will earn a permanent title to show off this major accomplishment for all time.

I have to say I am a fan of the idea of a title BUT please let 2 (test) seasons pass and maybe adjust a few things before you hand them out. You have not tested this system before and in the end a lot of people might have a title they don’t deserve just because the system needs a few tweaks.

But that’s just my opinion…

English is not my first language so please excuse any mistakes I made

+1 I really hope this wont turn into a farmboard 2.0. People should be punished for losing games and even should go down devisions, so that they wont play their best when they for example enter the legendary devision just because they cant go down devisions.

@Flo I hope its true how you understood the blog post, so that players will get matched with players in their devision. This would prevent people from just spaming games and get into legendary league, where only the best players should be.

xandi.4765:

+1 I really hope this wont turn into a farmboard 2.0. People should be punished for losing games and even should go down devisions, so that they wont play their best when they for example enter the legendary devision just because they cant go down devisions.

@Flo I hope its true how you understood the blog post, so that players will get matched with players in their devision. This would prevent people from just spaming games and get into legendary league, where only the best players should be.

You will have to play a lot of matches to move up, so yes you will be farm board. I just don’t think there will be leaderboards or I think leaderboards will only apply for Guild teams. So you want teams to be ranked not individuals, which is why only guild teams will be considered for future tournament.

in the old leaderboard there was a difference after the first 2 weeks, because basically system was bugged and people could farm points without any problems.

They fixed it and losing a match was really more heavy in score. Ofc Leaderboard was falsed from the fact people gained like more than 100 pts in the first week.

They will do some modification to odds / final score because they have now 2 test seasons data and it’s a lot of data, so they can improve a bit score and matchmaking.

in DOTA and LOL you can face people in different divisions ofc, probably people on your division will have some priority but it’s not exclusive for sure.

There will be not a personal leadeboard, only a team leaderboard. Personal progression will be in game.

With this system the faster and safer way to gain better division and pips will be going with a good team. More team mates you have, more chance to win the game you will have because you can control more variables.

This will have a consequence for soloque experience, basically always you will have a partial premade against and in your team, so it all depends on if you have the better partial premade team.

Soloqueue experience will be really random and probably a nightmare, this is inevitable with a shared ranked queue.

Phil.8901:

With this system the faster and safer way to gain better division and pips will be going with a good team. More team mates you have, more chance to win the game you will have because you can control more variables.

This will have a consequence for soloque experience, basically always you will have a partial premade against and in your team, so it all depends on if you have the better partial premade team.

Soloqueue experience will be really random and probably a nightmare, this is inevitable with a shared ranked queue.

But soloq hurts the teamq experience too. It just makes it a farm.
You get a streak of luck with the matchmaking and you just progress your way to legendary while only haven beaten solo’s.

There won’t even be a hardlimit so it seems in the matchmaking in regards to the divisions. You’ll still be able to fight starter division guys as a legendary division team.

There will even be an incentive to sell spots and boost people which is entirely possible in the new system.

The guildteam leaderboards are more of the same. How representative is it when all you do is beat soloq’ers, etc?

How representative are both systems (both league and guildleaderboard) when they mix both stronghold and conquest, which are two completely different gamemodes?

How will this retain people? The argument that they can change it when the population grow doesn’t hold up, imo. At launch and the weeks after the population will be at it’s height and it’ll either grow from there or it’ll drop down. Without a working queue system it’ll retain as bad as it retains now.
Plus, Anet is notorious for waiting long to reiterate on a system once it’s shipped.

This seems like an improved progression and rewardfarm structure. But without any changes to the queue’ing, a split between SH and Conquest (i know queues are split but the league/lb’s aren’t) and even hard limit on divisional play, it won’t succeed.

Unranked should all be mixed together.
Ranked should be league/teamLB split between stronghold and conquest.
Ranked should be solo/duo (not a chance that this won’t have decent queuetimes, we have seen this in the past) + teamq (this is the most difficult one, b/c it needs to be attractive. The ideal system would be only full teams/premades).

isn’t guild queuing different from regular team and soloQ?

I don’t like the reset system which basically means no matter how far you go you will be reset back to 0 eventually and be put back with the new players and have to build themselves up again – is that how it works? Because if so, I am not a fan of that.

I also hope they don’t bring back Tribal armor set for pve’rs to farm and claim as if they had been there before the pvp change- I hate farming but I achieved what I wanted before the change and still PvP regularly, but I feel it is TOO easy atm- and maybe.. maybe this change will be okay? idk I still don’t fully understand it I am just expressing how I feel about it.

SnowHawk.3615:

I don’t like the reset system which basically means no matter how far you go you will be reset back to 0 eventually and be put back with the new players and have to build themselves up again – is that how it works? Because if so, I am not a fan of that.

I also hope they don’t bring back Tribal armor set for pve’rs to farm and claim as if they had been there before the pvp change- I hate farming but I achieved what I wanted before the change and still PvP regularly, but I feel it is TOO easy atm- and maybe.. maybe this change will be okay? idk I still don’t fully understand it I am just expressing how I feel about it.

The reset concept in itself is good. Maybe they shouldn’t do a hardreset though. Set people back 3-4 divisions instead? (like hearthstone)

Solo/Duo players get shafted!

“…you’ll simply need to beat a required score threshold if you’re matched against a team outside your skill bracket.”

Bad matchmaking will still exist!

..Sigh!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

At first ArenaNet said that Stronghold and Conquest queues were going to be combined. They came to their senses and rectified what seemed an obviously poor idea. People have been saying we need solo/team queue splits for along time now. This is doubly the case with the unbelievably late addition of leagues(3 years into launch but announced as coming ages ago).

All of the above being said, solo/team queue splits have to happen. It’s not fair to really good solo players to have to get to a ceiling and then dwell at the bottom of the legendary rung kitten teams can farm them. That is exactly what is going to happen. That is going to get old really quick.

Playing solo for me is way more fun than having to join a team, wait for members, run at specific times etc. Stop taking two steps forward and one step back. Separate the queues.

While your at it, give us skill splits. It’s killing the different formats.

Maybe for ranked the better solution is to bring back a solo queue + full team queue and leave unranked to a more casual experience.

I mean, play with a friend is fun but if you are forced to face 4+ or 5 premade is a no sense, for both of sides.

Probably for the first season we could see how it works the entire structure with more people and with a modded matchmaking, maybe at the end the solo experience could be not really a nightmare but i’ve some doubt.

The Concern is to give the freedom to join in 2/3/ or 4 and at the end the experience is bad for everyone, i dunno if it worth.

Poliator.7021:

This still doesn’t solve some of my fears …

Try popping stability.

Dirame.8521:

Poliator.7021:

This still doesn’t solve some of my fears …

Try popping stability.

Anet is corrupting it!

My issues off the top of my head:

-The ability to multi-team ruins the legitimacy of the team LB—say Abjured plays on several smurf teams and takes the top 10 spots NA, then suppose 2-3 of them play on teams with different friends for the other 2-3 spots and takes the next 10-20 spots, and the cycle continues. As it is now there’s about 40 active players in pvp and those 40 players make up a combination of about 200 pug teams since no one ever gets along and stays together minus 2-3 teams.

-This system looks exactly like the current system masked in a tiered system. What is the point of the tiered system if your’e fighting people OUTSIDE OF YOUR TIER? Basically you’re just re-naming a kittenty system and pretending it means something.

-What rewards? This is horrible transparency. Every time you mention we’re getting “prestigious pvp rewards” we get the kitten that the pve-dev team threw out because pve’ers wouldn’t play for it to begin with.

-Why are PvP players by FAR the poorest players in the game (Minus abjured huehuehu). In gw1 hardcore pvp players were ridiculously wealthy and had -actual- prestigious items like guild cape trims, the most rare and elite skins, and even non-elite players were ridiculously wealthy compared to pve’ers because farming all day in pvp made far more gold (zkeys anyone??) than doing -any- content in pve.

-Token system? Wtf is this. You eliminate glory because you don’t want too many in-game currencies… and now you’re basically putting in a token system… another in-game currency? I know I’ve recommended a token system before but I am curious about what consistency there is in the development of pvp. Why would you so arbitrarily remove glory? Was it because the actual old-school bad-kitten had millions of it and you wanted to give them kitten rewards so you didn’t hurt pve players feelings and now that pvp is casual you want to give those pve players a chance at rare items. BS I say.

This just looks like a band-aid fix to pretend like you’ve been doing something for pvp. I’m sorry, but after being hopeful for so long I’m going to call you out on this.

Until you can at least MATCH what gw1 did 10 years ago did this pvp will just be a kittenty bandaid for the failure of the pvp development:

-3 in-game daily automated swiss style tournaments that reward PRESTIGIOUS prizes and served as the basis for deciding which teams qualify for monthly IN-GAME tournaments.

-Observer mode

-Recording and spectating of all top-tier games

-Proper MMR system

-Great rewards for playing pvp competitively daily, even for the teams that aren’t the best (none of that pve kitten that clutter our inventory. Give us a kittening key that opens a kittening chest with good kittening rewards that pve players will pay a lot of kittening gold for).

-Capes and trims. The kittenty layering of some weapons with stuff shows you don’t care about the layering currently in-game and as far as I heard that’s the only reason capes weren’t implemented.

-More than 1 kittening game-mode people care to play.

-More but I just stopped caring to finish this post so whatever.

I wouldn’t be surprised If this league system becomes a grind fest and fails so hard. Sorry to be negative but there is no good reference to use from the past what 2 years of this game, all the past PvP implementations from anet they have been total fails. They gave us a beta spvp game from the start that already says a lot on how they are awesome at hyping things. I can’t be hyped this time, why would I be hyped if they did it from the start of the game promising a great pvp game and the expectations were high but gave us disappointment at the end. Maybe this time they might get it right who knows but for now I’m off the hype train.

Poliator.7021:

The blog post about sPvP Leagues is out: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-pvp-leagues/

There is a TL;DR below at the end.

This still doesn’t solve some of my fears about it and last iterations of the point system Test Leaderboard. One of the main problems it had was its “farm nature”, as we could see people with, for example, 400 matches and a 48% win rate on the top of the Leaderboard.

It’s true that in the Second Test Season the top players on the Leaderboard were well above the 50% winrate mark, proving the changes they made were valid. But I will explain my fears on this topic in Leagues.

Okey, we have 6 different Divisions, from Amber to Legendary Division. This means that “Ranked Playerbase” should be distributed “equally” between this Divisions, showing different skill levels in each of them.

We can say, Amber has players with a MMR of 2 (out of max 10, for example). In the end, Legendary should have players with a MMR of 9 and 10 or rather the top MMR players. Middle Divisions should have all the other MMR players distributed. Sounds good, in this case Legendary Division, the very top of the League system will showcase the best players in the game, this will give them recognition!

But… the blog post didn’t say explicitly anything to solve this “farm it” problem. Of course, people with less than 50% win rate, won’t go to upper Divisions, because you can lose tiers and all.

The problem lies: If a guy has a MMR of 4, ideally he will get matched with other MMR of 4 players. If this guy is slightly better than the others, he will have a win ratio above 50%, letting him advance into other tiers and Divisions… until he reaches Legendary Division, where supposedly the top players should be.

That player is good, he has more than 50% win ratio, but he’s still a MMR of 4 (that will grow obviously because he has a win ratio above 50%) in Legendary Division.

Therefore, I don’t know if my suggestion is already in the system they want to put on Leagues but Matchmaking should take into account both player MMR and Division.

If Matchmaking takes into account Division, this will stop players from farming matches and start growing skill-wise, because they will get stuck at one Division. If you have a MMR of 4, but you are in the Diamond Division somehow, you will get matched with people on that Division, which should have a MMR of 6 or 7. Those guys should win over the lower skilled guy, making him drop and forcing him to get better if he wants to go higher.

In the end, this are just initial thoughts/fears on the sPvP Leagues feature and its implementation might prove me wrong.

TL;DR :
- The farm nature of previous Ladders can still be preserved into the League system. (Bad Thing)
- Players below 50% winrate should not get high into Divisions. (Good Thing).
- Ideally, Legendary Division should showcase the most skilled players (Good Thing).
- As the blog post sounded, a guy with a MMR of 4 could get into Legendary Division (Bad Thing).
- If this is the case, Matchmaking should take into account current Division to stop this (Suggestion). Obviously, in the case this isn’t already implemented.

So yeah, just some initial thoughts about the announcement. Discussion is welcome!

P.S.: As I said, tying Matchmaking to Divisions may not even be necessary and I’m just over-exaggerating this!

Winrates, in themselves are flawed measure of player performance. I am one of those people that has around 52-54% loss rate, that doesnt make me worse player then someone with a 60-70% win rate. Even on matches I lose I am top player in many categories vast majority of the time and there is a huge gap between myself, or myself + 1 other then the rest of the team.

So having a 48% vs for example 60% win rate is absolutely meaningless. being a top player in both objectives as well as kills for same match up is a far more accurate measure of individual performance due to RNG of being poorly matched up on your side.

Since Winrate does not provide good measure of these factors, anything based upon it is by default flawed and just as inaccurate.

i’m worried about the queue time…
if players can only be matched with players at the same division.
Well, in the chinese server, it’s normal to have only 20 people queue at the same time in rush hour. Yes we are loosing tons of players and no wonder why we always get 4th in WTS.
So what if 7 of them are in division 1, 7 of them are in division 2, 6 of them are in division 3… then nobody will get a match! they will be in queue forever…

Pandatrice.7183:

i’m worried about the queue time…
if players can only be matched with players at the same division.
Well, in the chinese server, it’s normal to have only 20 people queue at the same time in rush hour. Yes we are loosing tons of players and no wonder why we always get 4th in WTS.
So what if 7 of them are in division 1, 7 of them are in division 2, 6 of them are in division 3… then nobody will get a match! they will be in queue forever…

Players WON’T be matched with only people of the same division.

Dota and LoL work in the same way, because like you said, there would be super huge queues if people of your division aren’t online at the same time

Phil.8901:

Players WON’T be matched with only people of the same division.

Dota and LoL work in the same way, because like you said, there would be super huge queues if people of your division aren’t online at the same time

Whats the point of having divisions then? I’m not a great player but I want to test myself against players of similar skill not continually get farmed by players in the legendary division. I’ve had my fill of that in ranked leagues in other games.

And then there’s the issue of having a soloq, there simply must be one for this to work.

morrolan.9608:

Phil.8901:

Players WON’T be matched with only people of the same division.

Dota and LoL work in the same way, because like you said, there would be super huge queues if people of your division aren’t online at the same time

Whats the point of having divisions then? I’m not a great player but I want to test myself against players of similar skill not continually get farmed by players in the legendary division. I’ve had my fill of that in ranked leagues in other games.

And then there’s the issue of having a soloq, there simply must be one for this to work.

It depends on new matchmaking formula, without knowing it, we can’t be sure about nothing.

Maybe there will be a priority for people of the your same division but it won’t be exclusive to not create queue time issues.

I repeat, DoTa and LoL have the same concept.