Guild Wars 2

hooma.9642:

Lucifer.3748:

Bunch of whiny hotjoin heroes in here. If anyone of you followed how tournaments been running mesmers are becoming less n less required. People opting to use classes like trappers and engis instead of mesmers. D/D eles, trappers, any farpoint melee rangers, tanky thieves ( cruuks type of build ) , ect, ect… Destroy mesmers in 1 v 1 s.

Mesmers are more balanced then you know or are willing to admit. If you’re getting destroyed you either suck or playing a warrior…

so only if tpvp teams brings a mesmer its not balanced? what a clear view of balance u have. very impressive.
and btw u know “more balanced” is not the same like balanced!!!!!!!!
troll maybe?

What in the name of god are you trying to say? There are plenty of counters to shatter mesmers. Most of the people who claim shatter mesmers are skilless prolly couldn’t beat any half skilled player with one. More then likely people kittening about mesmers are idiots sitting in aoes while playing a warrior.

I can kill a decent mesmer on my farpoint ranger with just my pets if I wanted too. If you’re playing a weak class or one that can’t fight a mesmer don’t come to the forums to cry about it. Either learn 2 play or roll a new class till it gets buffed.

the day they do nerf aoe (as the rumers suggested they would) will be the day that i want mesmer players to die slow painful deaths.

currently spamming out aoes seems a decent counter to clone spammers.
when aoes are nerfed may the six gods have mercy on our souls.

we’ll have a clone spamming case far worse than Kamino.
(congrats if you get the reference!)

I can’t believe someone is complaining about a “melee” mesmer. Are you serious? You know how many warriors, thieves and guardians that stomp your face in when you try to melee them? A mesmer uses the sword as a defense and root, that’s it. They have to get out of there quick because they can’t take the hits like most cloth wearing classes can’t. The mesmer prefers a ranged to mid-ranged fight. Ranged with Greatsword and range/mid-range with the staff. All other pvp builds use primarily a sword/pistol or sword/any other sucky off hand. I use staff and sword/focus on my mesmer. Why? Because I hardly ever switch to sw/focus unless I want the run speed. Every now and then I’ll toss out iWarden and hope someones dumb enough to stand there and let it do the windmill on them for a few seconds. Okay, now I’m chasing rabbits. Point is simple, learn your proffession. The game is really balanced and it takes skill to beat other players. Nuff said!

Lucifer.3748:

hooma.9642:

Lucifer.3748:

Bunch of whiny hotjoin heroes in here. If anyone of you followed how tournaments been running mesmers are becoming less n less required. People opting to use classes like trappers and engis instead of mesmers. D/D eles, trappers, any farpoint melee rangers, tanky thieves ( cruuks type of build ) , ect, ect… Destroy mesmers in 1 v 1 s.

Mesmers are more balanced then you know or are willing to admit. If you’re getting destroyed you either suck or playing a warrior…

so only if tpvp teams brings a mesmer its not balanced? what a clear view of balance u have. very impressive.
and btw u know “more balanced” is not the same like balanced!!!!!!!!
troll maybe?

What in the name of god are you trying to say? There are plenty of counters to shatter mesmers. Most of the people who claim shatter mesmers are skilless prolly couldn’t beat any half skilled player with one. More then likely people kittening about mesmers are idiots sitting in aoes while playing a warrior.

I can kill a decent mesmer on my farpoint ranger with just my pets if I wanted too. If you’re playing a weak class or one that can’t fight a mesmer don’t come to the forums to cry about it. Either learn 2 play or roll a new class till it gets buffed.

ok again……………………….
“more balanced” is not equal balanced -> its still unbalanced.

the ppl fighting against mesmer still need higher skill then fight against other then mesmer… simple and irrevocable, cause u dont need to watch what 1 ppl is doing u must watch the clones/illusions 2.

interesting is the last part of ur post “roll a new class till it gets buffed”… mmh why? cause its maybe UNBALANCED?!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?

it doesnt matter that certain in specific situations to strong builds beats a mesmer… oh no wait.. a backstab thief can kill a mesmer.. its balanced.
cause if odin can beat zeus its balanced… regardlesss what humans do.. they has a chance, all they need to do is become a god…

u must be joking right? troll? dev? all three of them? no ppl with normal mental activity would think that way. or not?

Ayestes.1273:

Royce.6835:

Well, essentially, they should be deleted from the game.

If you are going to start a post with this it’s unlikely you are going to get anything you intended once people are laughing and no longer taking your post seriously. I understand your frustration and the like, but to even consider deleting a profession or mechanic from the game as a valid response is just silly.

MatyrGustav.6210:

any Suggestions?

The Mesmer in this case is a Shatter Memser, not really a melee mesmer. It’s unlikely they will stay in melee the entire time. The reason being, they are incredibly squishy when they aren’t pulling off their burst and when they are in their Sword set. This changes a bit when they are with the Staff, but in general there are fantastic set of tips when dealing with them. Keep in mind though that if you are pure melee then the odds aren’t in your favor, but that doesn’t mean you auto-lose.

• Dodge roll into the clones when they shatter. This triggers their explosions. A Shatter mesmer’s damage is mostly in these shatters. Mitigate them and you mitigate the vast majority of what they can do.

• Move away from the Mesmer if possible. Mesmers need you to be close to deal their real damage. Unless they have a Greatsword they have no real way to deal damage in this long range case, and without the Staff they are incredibly weak defensively beyond the trickery. AoE slows in particular can make it very easy to pick off Mesmer stuff.

• Move all the bloody time and learn to recognize the leaping clone. This leaping clone is the very beginning of the burst combo that you are going to be hit with. If you can keep away from it and/or dodge the follow-up then you have fully mitigated the combo. The other way to start the combo is with the Magic Bullet stun, so dodge roll that projectile if possible as well and stun break it if you get caught while having that cooldown up.

• AoE is pretty key in dealing with clones in general. This won’t stop the primary combo of clones if you get caught in the burst cycle, but beyond a Mirror Images burst while you are Immobilized it’s completely feasible to cleave them down. If you do get immobilized, make sure you use whatever invuln options you may or may not have.

• Recognize Distortion. They are invulnerable during Blurred Frenzy and their Distortion Shatter. Don’t waste valuable cooldowns during this period. I’ve seen far too many people try to burst a Mesmer I have targeted with Quickness for example. They are literally invulnerable during their burst combo, keep that in mind.

Best advice in general though, is to go play one. Start with a Phantasm build for a few hours to ease into the profession and then pickup the premier Shatter build once you have adjusted to the profession. Easiest way to learn how to beat something is to play it, and in GW2 it is incredibly easy to do that. If you are too stubborn to learn how to do that, then just watch Mesmer some streams on twitch.tv. Experience and knowledge of what a profession can do and usually does is the vast majority of skill in any MMO. Targeting nightmare is accurate though, they can be pretty frustrating without tons and tons of practice.

A lot of people seemed to just glaze over this post which is the most useful and productive post in the whole thread. So yeah, I’m going to go ahead and quote it and says thanks for the constructive feedback amid the qq fest.

I agree that good mesmers can be really tough to beat… but I think its’ a really cool idea for a class and would never want to see it deleted.

Leadfoot.9071:

Ayestes.1273:

Royce.6835:

Well, essentially, they should be deleted from the game.

If you are going to start a post with this it’s unlikely you are going to get anything you intended once people are laughing and no longer taking your post seriously. I understand your frustration and the like, but to even consider deleting a profession or mechanic from the game as a valid response is just silly.

MatyrGustav.6210:

any Suggestions?

The Mesmer in this case is a Shatter Memser, not really a melee mesmer. It’s unlikely they will stay in melee the entire time. The reason being, they are incredibly squishy when they aren’t pulling off their burst and when they are in their Sword set. This changes a bit when they are with the Staff, but in general there are fantastic set of tips when dealing with them. Keep in mind though that if you are pure melee then the odds aren’t in your favor, but that doesn’t mean you auto-lose.

• Dodge roll into the clones when they shatter. This triggers their explosions. A Shatter mesmer’s damage is mostly in these shatters. Mitigate them and you mitigate the vast majority of what they can do.

• Move away from the Mesmer if possible. Mesmers need you to be close to deal their real damage. Unless they have a Greatsword they have no real way to deal damage in this long range case, and without the Staff they are incredibly weak defensively beyond the trickery. AoE slows in particular can make it very easy to pick off Mesmer stuff.

• Move all the bloody time and learn to recognize the leaping clone. This leaping clone is the very beginning of the burst combo that you are going to be hit with. If you can keep away from it and/or dodge the follow-up then you have fully mitigated the combo. The other way to start the combo is with the Magic Bullet stun, so dodge roll that projectile if possible as well and stun break it if you get caught while having that cooldown up.

• AoE is pretty key in dealing with clones in general. This won’t stop the primary combo of clones if you get caught in the burst cycle, but beyond a Mirror Images burst while you are Immobilized it’s completely feasible to cleave them down. If you do get immobilized, make sure you use whatever invuln options you may or may not have.

• Recognize Distortion. They are invulnerable during Blurred Frenzy and their Distortion Shatter. Don’t waste valuable cooldowns during this period. I’ve seen far too many people try to burst a Mesmer I have targeted with Quickness for example. They are literally invulnerable during their burst combo, keep that in mind.

Best advice in general though, is to go play one. Start with a Phantasm build for a few hours to ease into the profession and then pickup the premier Shatter build once you have adjusted to the profession. Easiest way to learn how to beat something is to play it, and in GW2 it is incredibly easy to do that. If you are too stubborn to learn how to do that, then just watch Mesmer some streams on twitch.tv. Experience and knowledge of what a profession can do and usually does is the vast majority of skill in any MMO. Targeting nightmare is accurate though, they can be pretty frustrating without tons and tons of practice.

A lot of people seemed to just glaze over this post which is the most useful and productive post in the whole thread. So yeah, I’m going to go ahead and quote it and says thanks for the constructive feedback amid the qq fest.

I agree that good mesmers can be really tough to beat… but I think its’ a really cool idea for a class and would never want to see it deleted.

u realize that dodgine into the clones is the only way to avoid that combo with dodging? so u think to be forced to dodge in a specific direction is a good balanced solution?

as example if i bullscharge u it doesnt matter what direction u dodge i dont hit u…

mesmers are more or less fine , i played them and played against them . sure they rather easy to play but so is evry class once you got a rotation in your fingertips.

evry character got a few points that coud be changed to balance it out abit better

after a while its easy to find the mesmer among the clones.
i can think of only 1 things that i felt was kinda op
- clones do damage ( bleed when they crit , and more or less they are a bleed on there own)
( clones shoud be for visual chaos only ( scatter skills ) . phantams for dps )

atm clones do damage while applying visual chaos, makes it a tad to hard when its a wel trained mesmer

but there are other characters that have bigger issues then this … ,
might be beter if they fixed / balanced other characters before thinking of adjusting the mesmer.

elementalist :
- ele water trait needs some adjusting ( to many condition removals / healing compared with other classes ) ,
- mistform shoud not heal ( seen alot of ele’s mistform and almost get there full health back from it )

thief :
- mug trait shoud not deal damage above 2 k ( in any build )
- nonstop stealthing shoud be on diminishing return or something that punishes overuse of it

ranger:
- pets shoud not be able to keep players in combat while the enemy is nowhere to be seen
- crossfire attack shoud have never been increased in attackspeed.

necro:
- ground targeting spells shoud not get a trait to increase the radius.( wells and marks are to big a radius atm)

and so on and so on
evry character got something small that coud be adjusted to balance it out

Royce.6835:

Ayestes.1273:

Royce.6835:

Well, essentially, they should be deleted from the game.

If you are going to start a post with this it’s unlikely you are going to get anything you intended once people are laughing and no longer taking your post seriously. I understand your frustration and the like, but to even consider deleting a profession or mechanic from the game as a valid response is just silly.

the only people that would laugh are mesmers. and even then, their laughs and l2p comments are only there to make it seem like i’m the one who’s bad.. so your op class stays op.

my main problem with the class isn’t any specific thing they can do.. or learning to dodge or mitigate their damage, it’s their core design. Making clones of themselves? seriously? In a pvp game? Clones?

There’s a reason why naruto is so stronk. it’s cause he can make so many clones of himself. it’s a forbidden jutsu bro. and u fools spam that crap. rename mesmer to naruto and rename all your abilities to kage buunshin no jutsu and then we’ll talk seriously.

LOLOLOLOL @12 yo Narutards.
I was going to post something reasonable after reading everything but really Ayestes said it best so no need.

I can slightly understand phantasm builds if you have no AoE but there is no real reason to QQ about shatter.

But I have a question… If its so broken and not a L2P issue then why do top rated players have no real problems with it?

Our current pinnacle of viability is portal which is going to be shared with other classes soon. And quickness which a bunch of classes can use.

Trust me keep playing you’ll learn to find the real mesmer apart from his clones which really do no damage other than bleeds when traited for. (They did damage in beta, bet you woulda loved that haha!)

Also someone said exploding clones = cripple. I wish we had cripple shatters.

It’s prob crippling dissipation meaning he’s not taking shattered concentration or is 30 into domination.

Either way a build having a lot of ways to counter.

hooma.9642:

Leadfoot.9071:

Ayestes.1273:

Royce.6835:

Well, essentially, they should be deleted from the game.

If you are going to start a post with this it’s unlikely you are going to get anything you intended once people are laughing and no longer taking your post seriously. I understand your frustration and the like, but to even consider deleting a profession or mechanic from the game as a valid response is just silly.

MatyrGustav.6210:

any Suggestions?

The Mesmer in this case is a Shatter Memser, not really a melee mesmer. It’s unlikely they will stay in melee the entire time. The reason being, they are incredibly squishy when they aren’t pulling off their burst and when they are in their Sword set. This changes a bit when they are with the Staff, but in general there are fantastic set of tips when dealing with them. Keep in mind though that if you are pure melee then the odds aren’t in your favor, but that doesn’t mean you auto-lose.

• Dodge roll into the clones when they shatter. This triggers their explosions. A Shatter mesmer’s damage is mostly in these shatters. Mitigate them and you mitigate the vast majority of what they can do.

• Move away from the Mesmer if possible. Mesmers need you to be close to deal their real damage. Unless they have a Greatsword they have no real way to deal damage in this long range case, and without the Staff they are incredibly weak defensively beyond the trickery. AoE slows in particular can make it very easy to pick off Mesmer stuff.

• Move all the bloody time and learn to recognize the leaping clone. This leaping clone is the very beginning of the burst combo that you are going to be hit with. If you can keep away from it and/or dodge the follow-up then you have fully mitigated the combo. The other way to start the combo is with the Magic Bullet stun, so dodge roll that projectile if possible as well and stun break it if you get caught while having that cooldown up.

• AoE is pretty key in dealing with clones in general. This won’t stop the primary combo of clones if you get caught in the burst cycle, but beyond a Mirror Images burst while you are Immobilized it’s completely feasible to cleave them down. If you do get immobilized, make sure you use whatever invuln options you may or may not have.

• Recognize Distortion. They are invulnerable during Blurred Frenzy and their Distortion Shatter. Don’t waste valuable cooldowns during this period. I’ve seen far too many people try to burst a Mesmer I have targeted with Quickness for example. They are literally invulnerable during their burst combo, keep that in mind.

Best advice in general though, is to go play one. Start with a Phantasm build for a few hours to ease into the profession and then pickup the premier Shatter build once you have adjusted to the profession. Easiest way to learn how to beat something is to play it, and in GW2 it is incredibly easy to do that. If you are too stubborn to learn how to do that, then just watch Mesmer some streams on twitch.tv. Experience and knowledge of what a profession can do and usually does is the vast majority of skill in any MMO. Targeting nightmare is accurate though, they can be pretty frustrating without tons and tons of practice.

A lot of people seemed to just glaze over this post which is the most useful and productive post in the whole thread. So yeah, I’m going to go ahead and quote it and says thanks for the constructive feedback amid the qq fest.

I agree that good mesmers can be really tough to beat… but I think its’ a really cool idea for a class and would never want to see it deleted.

u realize that dodgine into the clones is the only way to avoid that combo with dodging? so u think to be forced to dodge in a specific direction is a good balanced solution?

as example if i bullscharge u it doesnt matter what direction u dodge i dont hit u…

I didn’t say anything at all about balance – I just commended this guy for making a constructive post with an attempt to give some tips on how to play against a mesmer instead of the qq’ing. I’m not a pro and get frustrated with mesmers kicking my kitten regularly but I don’t see any benefit to crying about it – instead learn as much as you can about them and their strengths and accept what you cannot change. The game is still fairly new and balancing for pvp in these types of games is undoubtedly a big challenge – I think it’s best to remain optimistic that anet will be making changes to balance things as they see fit.

TheLastScotsman.4865:

Wow, just wow. I mean seriously guys, is it really to hard to bind dodge to a different key and just dodge around the shatter, which most people can learn how to do by the second time a mes has tried to use the burst? Also for the idiot who said he couldn’t go ranged as a war cause rifle doesn’t pierce, you honestly shouldn’t be allowed to speak if you are using rifle instead of longbow in pvp, which has a nice little aoe that can solve all your problems by the way. For those of you who see the failure that is this “discussion” I just have to say that I find if the main defender of an argument has to resort to quoting nurato then you have already won…

lol… longbow is just as bad as rifle. sure it provides more teamfight dps. but 1v1 against a mesmer.. your longbow isn’t going to do anything. very effective at dpsing them down from a distance in a teamfight though, which is why i use longbow.

also.. if you don’t see naruto quotes as a valid argument, then i have already won.

also.. if you don’t see naruto quotes as a valid argument, then i have already won.i heard in the next patch they are giving mesmers a new ability called rasengan. stay tuned guys.

Royce.6835:

TheLastScotsman.4865:

Wow, just wow. I mean seriously guys, is it really to hard to bind dodge to a different key and just dodge around the shatter, which most people can learn how to do by the second time a mes has tried to use the burst? Also for the idiot who said he couldn’t go ranged as a war cause rifle doesn’t pierce, you honestly shouldn’t be allowed to speak if you are using rifle instead of longbow in pvp, which has a nice little aoe that can solve all your problems by the way. For those of you who see the failure that is this “discussion” I just have to say that I find if the main defender of an argument has to resort to quoting nurato then you have already won…

lol… longbow is just as bad as rifle. sure it provides more teamfight dps. but 1v1 against a mesmer.. your longbow isn’t going to do anything. very effective at dpsing them down from a distance in a teamfight though, which is why i use longbow.

also.. if you don’t see naruto quotes as a valid argument, then i have already won.

also.. if you don’t see naruto quotes as a valid argument, then i have already won.i heard in the next patch they are giving mesmers a new ability called rasengan. stay tuned guys.

With this failure of a rebuttal I wash my hands of this argument knowing that I will sleep well tonight with the knowledge that this person was beyond anyone’s help.

TheLastScotsman.4865:

Royce.6835:

TheLastScotsman.4865:

Wow, just wow. I mean seriously guys, is it really to hard to bind dodge to a different key and just dodge around the shatter, which most people can learn how to do by the second time a mes has tried to use the burst? Also for the idiot who said he couldn’t go ranged as a war cause rifle doesn’t pierce, you honestly shouldn’t be allowed to speak if you are using rifle instead of longbow in pvp, which has a nice little aoe that can solve all your problems by the way. For those of you who see the failure that is this “discussion” I just have to say that I find if the main defender of an argument has to resort to quoting nurato then you have already won…

lol… longbow is just as bad as rifle. sure it provides more teamfight dps. but 1v1 against a mesmer.. your longbow isn’t going to do anything. very effective at dpsing them down from a distance in a teamfight though, which is why i use longbow.

also.. if you don’t see naruto quotes as a valid argument, then i have already won.

also.. if you don’t see naruto quotes as a valid argument, then i have already won.i heard in the next patch they are giving mesmers a new ability called rasengan. stay tuned guys.

With this failure of a rebuttal I wash my hands of this argument knowing that I will sleep well tonight with the knowledge that this person was beyond anyone’s help.

and i’ll go to sleep knowing when i wake up, the mesmers will have rasengan and control the kyuubi’s chakra.

oh. and they will be hokage.

Ayestes.1273:

I’m so confused as to whether this is all satire or not now. Regardless, Mesmers aren’t nearly as much as an issue to me personally as they used to be. It’s possible because they blow two elite slots on Illusion of Life and Portal now coupled with all of the nerfs, or it’s possible it’s because I’ve got better at tracking the real Mesmer without hesitation. The clone mechanic is extremely interesting to me, even if frustrating at first when dealing with it. Also to make it clear, I only really play an Engineer.

You are better at tracking mesmers. Okay to everyone posting here. Instead of trying to fight mesmers 1v1 or picking up the class. Get some friends go to an empty server and watch the Mesmer duel another class. Make sure they are on your team and you will see it all and be like ahhhh…. You know who never complains about fighting mesmers? Other mesmers because we KNOW THE CLASS INSIDE AND OUT! If I am fighting a shatter Mesmer I run to the back of the stack of clones because that’s where the Mesmer is. Once I have them targeted the only time I drop target is if they use their 1 skill that leaves a clone in place of them. And even then it is usually pretty obvious its not the real Mesmer because the real Mesmer usually has sigils activated or a signet or a title under their name. It is really not that hard. And yeah I am going to say L2P because its the same problem with thieves. The only difference is we CONFUSE YOU MORE because we have more DISTRACTIONS up…. Hmmmm yeah I realize I have a lot of caps up but confusion and distraction are the design philosophy behind this class.

jportell.2197:

Ayestes.1273:

I’m so confused as to whether this is all satire or not now. Regardless, Mesmers aren’t nearly as much as an issue to me personally as they used to be. It’s possible because they blow two elite slots on Illusion of Life and Portal now coupled with all of the nerfs, or it’s possible it’s because I’ve got better at tracking the real Mesmer without hesitation. The clone mechanic is extremely interesting to me, even if frustrating at first when dealing with it. Also to make it clear, I only really play an Engineer.

You are better at tracking mesmers. Okay to everyone posting here. Instead of trying to fight mesmers 1v1 or picking up the class. Get some friends go to an empty server and watch the Mesmer duel another class. Make sure they are on your team and you will see it all and be like ahhhh…. You know who never complains about fighting mesmers? Other mesmers because we KNOW THE CLASS INSIDE AND OUT! If I am fighting a shatter Mesmer I run to the back of the stack of clones because that’s where the Mesmer is. Once I have them targeted the only time I drop target is if they use their 1 skill that leaves a clone in place of them. And even then it is usually pretty obvious its not the real Mesmer because the real Mesmer usually has sigils activated or a signet or a title under their name. It is really not that hard. And yeah I am going to say L2P because its the same problem with thieves. The only difference is we CONFUSE YOU MORE because we have more DISTRACTIONS up…. Hmmmm yeah I realize I have a lot of caps up but confusion and distraction are the design philosophy behind this class.

i don’t get why everyone thinks this is about how to fight mesmers 1v1. meet me in game i’ll beat you in a duel np. that’s not what i complain about.

Oh my gosh, hooma are you trolling? It is a learn to play issue, as you mentioned your self but you just didn’t notice…

“so only if tpvp teams brings a mesmer its not balanced? what a clear view of balance u have. very impressive.
and btw u know “more balanced” is not the same like balanced!!!!!!!!
troll maybe?”

“so u will say if i hoin a hot join match and beside the thiefs the enemy consists nearly of mesmers with few exception to other classes all the mesmer player are high skill?
so there is no relation why 70-80 of all hotjoin players are thief or mesmer? cause the both classes need so much skill that 70-80% of ppl are high skilled players and the rest is just bad?”

So you’re saying in tpvp Mesmers are beatable ’cuz they play vs. better enemies, but in hotjoin you got a huge load of mesmers beacuse bad players cant handle them.. Uhhh how do we call that, l2p issue maybe?

And as allrdy said there a classes which can beat a Mesmer, Eles on s/d very easy, Rangers on traps or bunker/petdmg, even off-guards got a good chance vs. mesmers. Btw. I would like to quote another of your statements, where you complained that Mesmers only need 1wepset+class-special for huge burst:

“so even if u go full berzerk u has 3 utilities for defense.. compare that to a warrior who needs nearly all of his utilities for a 100b combo.”

I’m gonna say you something: Ya Mesmers got a lot of burst w/o utilities and ya Warriors need they’re utilities to get a nice spike… But the joke is, that the Warrior got mobility in his 1wepset (gs), OH MY GOSH MESMER DOESNT, WARRI IS SO OP! So what does a Mesmer, he takes mobility within his utilites, your whole statement is compeltely senseless. But what if we take eles anyway, they got DMG and mobility in they’re one weaponset, kitten they are completely unbalanced pls delete this clas!!!
/sarcasm

The only problem with mesmers are blurred frenzy(high dmg, low cd, invul) and phase retreat(build in weaponset, low cd, stunbreaker) these skills should be toned down and get an increase in cd.

Everyone is talking about mesmers as if only way you ever fight a mesmer is 1vs1.Ofc they are not much of a problem in 1vs1, problem is team fights and 2+ mesmers and their clones in the same place, that is when annoyance factor increases tenfold.
Only reason gw 2 does not have “target nearest enemy player” feature are mesmers. Focus target is a joke, they drop it every 2-3 sec. Mesmers are blatantly favored by a-net by giving them a cheap class mechanics. Fighting a mesmer, and somewhat a thief, feels like fighting a cheater. It can be done but its no fun at all.

Flat out mesmers have gotten nerfed more than any other class since release only having two patches where they got got buffed (one buff that was immediately nerfed after) and this recent one which was just bug fixes. So that says less about the people that play mesmers and way.more about people that hate on them because they still haven’t learned how to counter. Its ridiculous. Just stop

jportell.2197:

Flat out mesmers have gotten nerfed more than any other class since release only having two patches where they got got buffed (one buff that was immediately nerfed after) and this recent one which was just bug fixes. So that says less about the people that play mesmers and way.more about people that hate on them because they still haven’t learned how to counter. Its ridiculous. Just stop

For real? I dont like thief and engi its not my preferred prof, but if someone can say that had more nerfs during the game are these guys. What was the great nerf that mesmer received that wasnt fair? The Might Stacks? The Shatter Global Cooldown? The Portal?
If you stop and think, you roll the same specs since last beta almost without changes, lol. And dont tell me its not good, because its the only 2 viable, because some profs even have more than a viable spec, and that cant do what you guys do.
Every other prof had to try a new one because their respective specs had the effectiveness reduced, and you guys just need to run the same thing with the same ease and say “Its a l2p issue” for everyone, like all the mesmers are skilled players and the rest noobs, while we have to predict your game with the minimum failures, since we make a mistake we have a great chance to die or closer.
About balance, some guys at the thread gave some good statements like hooma and Asomal.
Lastly, i lold with this

mesmers are more or less fine , i played them and played against them . sure they rather easy to play but so is evry class once you got a rotation in your fingertips.

evry character got a few points that coud be changed to balance it out abit better

after a while its easy to find the mesmer among the clones.
i can think of only 1 things that i felt was kinda op
- clones do damage ( bleed when they crit , and more or less they are a bleed on there own)
( clones shoud be for visual chaos only ( scatter skills ) . phantams for dps )

atm clones do damage while applying visual chaos, makes it a tad to hard when its a wel trained mesmer

but there are other characters that have bigger issues then this … ,
might be beter if they fixed / balanced other characters before thinking of adjusting the mesmer.

elementalist :
- ele water trait needs some adjusting ( to many condition removals / healing compared with other classes ) ,
- mistform shoud not heal ( seen alot of ele’s mistform and almost get there full health back from it )

thief :
- mug trait shoud not deal damage above 2 k ( in any build )
- nonstop stealthing shoud be on diminishing return or something that punishes overuse of it

ranger:
- pets shoud not be able to keep players in combat while the enemy is nowhere to be seen
- crossfire attack shoud have never been increased in attackspeed.

necro:
- ground targeting spells shoud not get a trait to increase the radius.( wells and marks are to big a radius atm)

and so on and so on
evry character got something small that coud be adjusted to balance it out

So, you really saw what you said? You really think its more reasonable to repair first all these profs, and then nerf mesmer? And the lack of sense of the things you point like the mesmer fixes compared to the fixes of some profs listed for you? lol, just lol…

hooma.9642:

Lucifer.3748:

hooma.9642:

Lucifer.3748:

Bunch of whiny hotjoin heroes in here. If anyone of you followed how tournaments been running mesmers are becoming less n less required. People opting to use classes like trappers and engis instead of mesmers. D/D eles, trappers, any farpoint melee rangers, tanky thieves ( cruuks type of build ) , ect, ect… Destroy mesmers in 1 v 1 s.

Mesmers are more balanced then you know or are willing to admit. If you’re getting destroyed you either suck or playing a warrior…

so only if tpvp teams brings a mesmer its not balanced? what a clear view of balance u have. very impressive.
and btw u know “more balanced” is not the same like balanced!!!!!!!!
troll maybe?

What in the name of god are you trying to say? There are plenty of counters to shatter mesmers. Most of the people who claim shatter mesmers are skilless prolly couldn’t beat any half skilled player with one. More then likely people kittening about mesmers are idiots sitting in aoes while playing a warrior.

I can kill a decent mesmer on my farpoint ranger with just my pets if I wanted too. If you’re playing a weak class or one that can’t fight a mesmer don’t come to the forums to cry about it. Either learn 2 play or roll a new class till it gets buffed.

ok again……………………….
“more balanced” is not equal balanced -> its still unbalanced.

the ppl fighting against mesmer still need higher skill then fight against other then mesmer… simple and irrevocable, cause u dont need to watch what 1 ppl is doing u must watch the clones/illusions 2.

interesting is the last part of ur post “roll a new class till it gets buffed”… mmh why? cause its maybe UNBALANCED?!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?

it doesnt matter that certain in specific situations to strong builds beats a mesmer… oh no wait.. a backstab thief can kill a mesmer.. its balanced.
cause if odin can beat zeus its balanced… regardlesss what humans do.. they has a chance, all they need to do is become a god…

u must be joking right? troll? dev? all three of them? no ppl with normal mental activity would think that way. or not?

A: This game isn’t balance based on hotjoin. If this games wants to be “Esports” then it shouldn’t matter if there’s an entire team of mesmers or 1 mesmer in a hotjoin.

B: If class X is balanced and class Y and Z is completely kitten, then class X should not be nerfed to Y + Z’s kittenty state. Y and Z should be buffed more into viability.

C: I don’t know if it’s your logic or your grammar structuring, but you haven’t said anything remotely understandable or noteworthy. Stop thinking like a level 10 who just got rolled by other level 10s in hotjoin playing X class the running to the forums and crying about it.

Guaranteed that 90% of the people who cry about mesmers come to the forums and read trash like this and assume that mesmers are unstoppable OP. Then when they lose to one (like they do to any other class it’s inevitable), they come crying that Mesmers are bullkitten because they saw other sheep whining about it on the forums.

TheLastScotsman.4865:

Wow, just wow. I mean seriously guys, is it really to hard to bind dodge to a different key and just dodge around the shatter, which most people can learn how to do by the second time a mes has tried to use the burst? Also for the idiot who said he couldn’t go ranged as a war cause rifle doesn’t pierce, you honestly shouldn’t be allowed to speak if you are using rifle instead of longbow in pvp, which has a nice little aoe that can solve all your problems by the way. For those of you who see the failure that is this “discussion” I just have to say that I find if the main defender of an argument has to resort to quoting nurato then you have already won…

mesmer will just wait till u dodge x2 then root/shatter u

urinfamousr.7631:

TheLastScotsman.4865:

Wow, just wow. I mean seriously guys, is it really to hard to bind dodge to a different key and just dodge around the shatter, which most people can learn how to do by the second time a mes has tried to use the burst? Also for the idiot who said he couldn’t go ranged as a war cause rifle doesn’t pierce, you honestly shouldn’t be allowed to speak if you are using rifle instead of longbow in pvp, which has a nice little aoe that can solve all your problems by the way. For those of you who see the failure that is this “discussion” I just have to say that I find if the main defender of an argument has to resort to quoting nurato then you have already won…

mesmer will just wait till u dodge x2 then root/shatter u

So then that means they outplayed you?
No reason for a nerf

Schnitter.9857:

For real? I dont like thief and engi its not my preferred prof, but if someone can say that had more nerfs during the game are these guys.

Heheh, so true. I’m not saying there aren’t still some tweaks to be made, but if you want an example of something that’s OP, just look at engies at launch. I like my stunbreakers on a 1-sec cooldown!

It’s nice to be the underdog now, though, makes people surprised when you kill them. And you feel like YOU won the fight, not your profession. Seriously, people don’t know how fun it is to play the non-meta builds…

regardless of balance, most of us will agree that shatter mesmers are not fun to play against. so change them.

Lucifer.3748:

hooma.9642:

Lucifer.3748:

hooma.9642:

Lucifer.3748:

Bunch of whiny hotjoin heroes in here. If anyone of you followed how tournaments been running mesmers are becoming less n less required. People opting to use classes like trappers and engis instead of mesmers. D/D eles, trappers, any farpoint melee rangers, tanky thieves ( cruuks type of build ) , ect, ect… Destroy mesmers in 1 v 1 s.

Mesmers are more balanced then you know or are willing to admit. If you’re getting destroyed you either suck or playing a warrior…

so only if tpvp teams brings a mesmer its not balanced? what a clear view of balance u have. very impressive.
and btw u know “more balanced” is not the same like balanced!!!!!!!!
troll maybe?

What in the name of god are you trying to say? There are plenty of counters to shatter mesmers. Most of the people who claim shatter mesmers are skilless prolly couldn’t beat any half skilled player with one. More then likely people kittening about mesmers are idiots sitting in aoes while playing a warrior.

I can kill a decent mesmer on my farpoint ranger with just my pets if I wanted too. If you’re playing a weak class or one that can’t fight a mesmer don’t come to the forums to cry about it. Either learn 2 play or roll a new class till it gets buffed.

ok again……………………….
“more balanced” is not equal balanced -> its still unbalanced.

the ppl fighting against mesmer still need higher skill then fight against other then mesmer… simple and irrevocable, cause u dont need to watch what 1 ppl is doing u must watch the clones/illusions 2.

interesting is the last part of ur post “roll a new class till it gets buffed”… mmh why? cause its maybe UNBALANCED?!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?

it doesnt matter that certain in specific situations to strong builds beats a mesmer… oh no wait.. a backstab thief can kill a mesmer.. its balanced.
cause if odin can beat zeus its balanced… regardlesss what humans do.. they has a chance, all they need to do is become a god…

u must be joking right? troll? dev? all three of them? no ppl with normal mental activity would think that way. or not?

A: This game isn’t balance based on hotjoin. If this games wants to be “Esports” then it shouldn’t matter if there’s an entire team of mesmers or 1 mesmer in a hotjoin.

B: If class X is balanced and class Y and Z is completely kitten, then class X should not be nerfed to Y + Z’s kittenty state. Y and Z should be buffed more into viability.

C: I don’t know if it’s your logic or your grammar structuring, but you haven’t said anything remotely understandable or noteworthy. Stop thinking like a level 10 who just got rolled by other level 10s in hotjoin playing X class the running to the forums and crying about it.

Guaranteed that 90% of the people who cry about mesmers come to the forums and read trash like this and assume that mesmers are unstoppable OP. Then when they lose to one (like they do to any other class it’s inevitable), they come crying that Mesmers are bullkitten because they saw other sheep whining about it on the forums.

a) so u realize there is something broken? the balance or even esport starts on the basics. it doesnt matter how tpvp handle it.. the basics count and it seems u has realized that its total different if there are more than 1 mesmers.
b) i dont say they should nerf mesmers. but mesmers and thiefs give to much reward for less then other class require. in the same time u need more skill to beat such classes, cause they are annyoing
c) if u want that game balanced and successfull pvp u should start to think like a lvl 1..

and just a tip.. stop deposit others as cryers or something. it just shows how ignorant u are.

Jumper.9482:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9_UR1dCoT8

shows 2 broken op things.

1: at 0:41 homing missile shatters.
2: 5k dmg with steal

hooma.9642:

Lucifer.3748:

hooma.9642:

Lucifer.3748:

hooma.9642:

Lucifer.3748:

Bunch of whiny hotjoin heroes in here. If anyone of you followed how tournaments been running mesmers are becoming less n less required. People opting to use classes like trappers and engis instead of mesmers. D/D eles, trappers, any farpoint melee rangers, tanky thieves ( cruuks type of build ) , ect, ect… Destroy mesmers in 1 v 1 s.

Mesmers are more balanced then you know or are willing to admit. If you’re getting destroyed you either suck or playing a warrior…

so only if tpvp teams brings a mesmer its not balanced? what a clear view of balance u have. very impressive.
and btw u know “more balanced” is not the same like balanced!!!!!!!!
troll maybe?

What in the name of god are you trying to say? There are plenty of counters to shatter mesmers. Most of the people who claim shatter mesmers are skilless prolly couldn’t beat any half skilled player with one. More then likely people kittening about mesmers are idiots sitting in aoes while playing a warrior.

I can kill a decent mesmer on my farpoint ranger with just my pets if I wanted too. If you’re playing a weak class or one that can’t fight a mesmer don’t come to the forums to cry about it. Either learn 2 play or roll a new class till it gets buffed.

ok again……………………….
“more balanced” is not equal balanced -> its still unbalanced.

the ppl fighting against mesmer still need higher skill then fight against other then mesmer… simple and irrevocable, cause u dont need to watch what 1 ppl is doing u must watch the clones/illusions 2.

interesting is the last part of ur post “roll a new class till it gets buffed”… mmh why? cause its maybe UNBALANCED?!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?

it doesnt matter that certain in specific situations to strong builds beats a mesmer… oh no wait.. a backstab thief can kill a mesmer.. its balanced.
cause if odin can beat zeus its balanced… regardlesss what humans do.. they has a chance, all they need to do is become a god…

u must be joking right? troll? dev? all three of them? no ppl with normal mental activity would think that way. or not?

A: This game isn’t balance based on hotjoin. If this games wants to be “Esports” then it shouldn’t matter if there’s an entire team of mesmers or 1 mesmer in a hotjoin.

B: If class X is balanced and class Y and Z is completely kitten, then class X should not be nerfed to Y + Z’s kittenty state. Y and Z should be buffed more into viability.

C: I don’t know if it’s your logic or your grammar structuring, but you haven’t said anything remotely understandable or noteworthy. Stop thinking like a level 10 who just got rolled by other level 10s in hotjoin playing X class the running to the forums and crying about it.

Guaranteed that 90% of the people who cry about mesmers come to the forums and read trash like this and assume that mesmers are unstoppable OP. Then when they lose to one (like they do to any other class it’s inevitable), they come crying that Mesmers are bullkitten because they saw other sheep whining about it on the forums.

a) so u realize there is something broken? the balance or even esport starts on the basics. it doesnt matter how tpvp handle it.. the basics count and it seems u has realized that its total different if there are more than 1 mesmers.
b) i dont say they should nerf mesmers. but mesmers and thiefs give to much reward for less then other class require. in the same time u need more skill to beat such classes, cause they are annyoing
c) if u want that game balanced and successfull pvp u should start to think like a lvl 1..

and just a tip.. stop deposit others as cryers or something. it just shows how ignorant u are.

How does lowering the standard cultivate a healthy competitive environment? How can a game be competitive if an unseasoned newplayer is on the same level as a seasoned veteran?
Top players are where they are because they overcame the challenges of the game, why should new players get a free pass up to them?
Imo, it’d be better if they made access to knowledge on how to handle certain challenging situations more accessible so new players will have more incentive to learn and improve. Maybe something like a tutorial on mechanics like stealth, clones and dodging.

Dual.8953:

How does lowering the standard cultivate a healthy competitive environment? How can a game be competitive if an unseasoned newplayer is on the same level as a seasoned veteran?
Top players are where they are because they overcame the challenges of the game, why should new players get a free pass up to them?
Imo, it’d be better if they made access to knowledge on how to handle certain challenging situations more accessible so new players will have more incentive to learn and improve. Maybe something like a tutorial on mechanics like stealth, clones and dodging.

so u think picking 1 of the high reward low risk classes like thief and mesmers is competitive?
u have no healthy competitive environment with 200-500 pvp players that jumps about the skillgap that is required to beat certain builds.

it all starts in hot join. even new players realize that build doesnt matter against a zerg, but they realize how often they are get killed with nearly no chance to react by certain classes so that they either play that class or leave pvp. so lowering the needed skillgap improves the competitive environment cause u has more players.
so why the opponent needs clearly more skill to kill a thief or a mesmer? should not the thief or mesmer bring the same amount of skill to kill something?
stealth and pve mobs are anoying in pvp! simple fact.

it should not be “hard to learn” it should be “easy to learn hard to master”.. atm its “hard to learn”… at this state it doesnt matter how much features spvp get, it will not attract new players if they get stomped with such classes. they leave or pick the same class. both options doesnt help spvp.

hooma.9642:

Dual.8953:

How does lowering the standard cultivate a healthy competitive environment? How can a game be competitive if an unseasoned newplayer is on the same level as a seasoned veteran?
Top players are where they are because they overcame the challenges of the game, why should new players get a free pass up to them?
Imo, it’d be better if they made access to knowledge on how to handle certain challenging situations more accessible so new players will have more incentive to learn and improve. Maybe something like a tutorial on mechanics like stealth, clones and dodging.

so u think picking 1 of the high reward low risk classes like thief and mesmers is competitive?
u have no healthy competitive environment with 200-500 pvp players that jumps about the skillgap that is required to beat certain builds.

it all starts in hot join. even new players realize that build doesnt matter against a zerg, but they realize how often they are get killed with nearly no chance to react by certain classes so that they either play that class or leave pvp. so lowering the needed skillgap improves the competitive environment cause u has more players.
so why the opponent needs clearly more skill to kill a thief or a mesmer? should not the thief or mesmer bring the same amount of skill to kill something?
stealth and pve mobs are anoying in pvp! simple fact.

it should not be “hard to learn” it should be “easy to learn hard to master”.. atm its “hard to learn”… at this state it doesnt matter how much features spvp get, it will not attract new players if they get stomped with such classes. they leave or pick the same class. both options doesnt help spvp.

You don’t need to lower the challenge to decrease the learning curve. Just make knowledge easily accessible, educate the new players. That way, rather then hamstringing the high levels, you get stronger newbies, and don’t ruin things for the high levels.

@hooma

The issues are you having are more due to the bad system design of hot join, not mesmer and thieves themselves. Certainly cultivating new players is crucial but that does not mean you ignore all high level tPvP, that is nonsense. While an eSport scene needs casual audiences, a game must actually be balanced and fun at high levels as well.

What ANet should do is remove hot join all together, implement the matchmaking system (whenever they get around to that) so new players can solo queue with a big old obvious “play now” button. Make these games 5on5 just like regular tournaments which will dramatically reduce the zerging you see in 8v8s. No more of this uneven teams and team balancing nonsense.

Then they can use the current hot join browser and modify it to display custom games/servers (whenever they get around to that). Let players name their servers like “r30+ deathmatch” or whatever, and presto, there is your casual population explosion.

the bad system of hot join clearly show that there is a problem with mesmer and thiefs regardless what tpvp ppl think or do.. lowering the learning curve does not hamstringing high levels.

so even if u would implement all ur suggestions the problem still exist.. high reward low risk…
the whole problem is stealht and npcs.

i dont want to know how much high levels mesmers and thiefs are actualy “newbs” and only play on tourney carried by team and unbalanced class/build. a mesmer or thief need to bring the same amount of skill to kill something. they need to sacrifice the defense if the go berzerk.. what mesmers and thiefs because classmechanic dont do.

i already has suggest to implement a castbar.. but that would “harmstringing high levels” lol

thiefs and mesmer’s arent ‘noobs’ in high level play. Neither are they op.
Most top players know the classes so well, they spot the real mesmer in seconds, dodge a high percentage of backstabs. And thiefs/messys probalby win less than half there 1on1 fights in high end, depending on class match ups.

hooma.9642:

the bad system of hot join clearly show that there is a problem with mesmer and thiefs regardless what tpvp ppl think or do.. lowering the learning curve does not hamstringing high levels.

so even if u would implement all ur suggestions the problem still exist.. high reward low risk…
the whole problem is stealht and npcs.

i dont want to know how much high levels mesmers and thiefs are actualy “newbs” and only play on tourney carried by team and unbalanced class/build. a mesmer or thief need to bring the same amount of skill to kill something. they need to sacrifice the defense if the go berzerk.. what mesmers and thiefs because classmechanic dont do.

i already has suggest to implement a castbar.. but that would “harmstringing high levels” lol

Considering thieves in top level get through because they have a nice burst and nothing else, weakening that would certainly hamstring top level thieves. Stealth isn’t a problem at high level, especially considering they can’t cap with it or hold points in stealth. Thieves make use of it because even going full tank they’re squishy, yet they have the offense of a bunker (in other words, mediocre defense and low attack, not really an equivalent trade off) so stealth helps them avoid being focused down.
And stealth isn’t the reason Mesmers are where they are either (that honour goes to Time warp and Portal). Stealth is just a trick to bewilder opponents and eventually players learn to see through that (at least most of them).

As for NPCs, they’re bonus objectives that reward teams for exploiting them. No different from NPCs in LoL.

hooma.9642:

the bad system of hot join clearly show that there is a problem with mesmer and thiefs regardless what tpvp ppl think or do.. lowering the learning curve does not hamstringing high levels.

so even if u would implement all ur suggestions the problem still exist.. high reward low risk…
the whole problem is stealht and npcs.

i dont want to know how much high levels mesmers and thiefs are actualy “newbs” and only play on tourney carried by team and unbalanced class/build. a mesmer or thief need to bring the same amount of skill to kill something. they need to sacrifice the defense if the go berzerk.. what mesmers and thiefs because classmechanic dont do.

i already has suggest to implement a castbar.. but that would “harmstringing high levels” lol

Not really. You see so many thiefs/mesmers mainly because 8v8 is a zerg-fest between 2 unbalanced teams. Once it becomes a match-made 5v5 team of 2 equally skilled teams them I can pretty much guarantee the # of thieves/mesmers you will see will drop drastically.

The whole “easy to play at low levels” thing is so overblown and is a complete non-issue. Same thing in Street Fighter, noobs will pick up E. Honda or Chun-Li and buttonmash their way to victory, but is no big deal once people pick up the basics of the game. The bad design of hot join is 99.9% of the issue with a bad casual player pvp experience.

Skyro.3108:

hooma.9642:

the bad system of hot join clearly show that there is a problem with mesmer and thiefs regardless what tpvp ppl think or do.. lowering the learning curve does not hamstringing high levels.

so even if u would implement all ur suggestions the problem still exist.. high reward low risk…
the whole problem is stealht and npcs.

i dont want to know how much high levels mesmers and thiefs are actualy “newbs” and only play on tourney carried by team and unbalanced class/build. a mesmer or thief need to bring the same amount of skill to kill something. they need to sacrifice the defense if the go berzerk.. what mesmers and thiefs because classmechanic dont do.

i already has suggest to implement a castbar.. but that would “harmstringing high levels” lol

Not really. You see so many thiefs/mesmers mainly because 8v8 is a zerg-fest between 2 unbalanced teams. Once it becomes a match-made 5v5 team of 2 equally skilled teams them I can pretty much guarantee the # of thieves/mesmers you will see will drop drastically.

The whole “easy to play at low levels” thing is so overblown and is a complete non-issue. Same thing in Street Fighter, noobs will pick up E. Honda or Chun-Li and buttonmash their way to victory, but is no big deal once people pick up the basics of the game. The bad design of hot join is 99.9% of the issue with a bad casual player pvp experience.

Yes, i feel the hotjoin is fundamentally at issue with casual experience. They arent even playing the gmae per se, as in conquest tourny.

Royce.6835:

There’s a reason why naruto is so stronk. it’s cause he can make so many clones of himself. it’s a forbidden jutsu bro. and u fools spam that crap. rename mesmer to naruto and rename all your abilities to kage buunshin no jutsu and then we’ll talk seriously.

Hahaha! I almost laughed out loud at work after reading this! Cheers buddy :-D

Been a mesmer since the second beta been playing the same build since launch. Wtf is this shatter build?

20/20/0/0/30 with the Shatter traits. Effectively turns your Mirror Image + Mind Wrack into high damage combos that strip boons and even without going into condition damage the Confusion is powerful. It’s a glass cannon in attributes but has a lot of innate survival built in via Distortion, Blurred Frenzy, and the Staff in general. The utilities can either be selfish in nature for survival or team oriented.

It’s usually pretty close to this build:
http://teampz.com/threads/kirmoras-backpoint-shatter-mesmer.32/

Its the 20/20/0/0/30 Build making sure that you take no less than mental torment in first line, deceptive evasion in the second line, and Precise wrack and at least Illusionary persona in the illusion line. I have been playing a Mesmer not as long as Derps. But I have experimented with the class enough and know it well enough that I can see right through all clones. Mesmer has signet of domination? OH NOW HE DOESN"T! Must have used decoy. I will wait a whopping three seconds and retarget. He sent his clones to shatter? Well if I have sword I can BLOCK! Or I have this evade key and I dodge forward. Same thing with thieves. Oh crap I’m stone stun break! BLAH BLAH BLAH. It is an L2P issue and that’s it. I fight mesmers all the time and feel no more at a disadvantage then when I fight a d/d ele or a bunker guardian. But then again all these classes freak out when they see that I can’t be one shotted because I don’t run the build I mentioned above and I am actually “tankier” then that bunker guardian trying to hold my point or that d/d ele thief combo trying to gank it.

daydream.2938:

thiefs and mesmer’s arent ‘noobs’ in high level play. Neither are they op.
Most top players know the classes so well, they spot the real mesmer in seconds, dodge a high percentage of backstabs. And thiefs/messys probalby win less than half there 1on1 fights in high end, depending on class match ups.

The fact is that a good mesmer is hard to kill whether you play spvp or tourney, but on top of that are really, really annoying to fight against , not just because you need to look for them among their clones and other players, but also because of how many escape mechanisms they have.Having mesmers in the game adds absolutely nothing to quality or fun for the game, on the contrary having mesmer around makes the game repulsive and unattractive especially for the new players.Mesmer class is example of bad class design, plain and simple.The very least they can do is add target nearest enemy player feature, wasting precious time to locate player you need to kill not just once, but all the time during combat is bs.

Oh wow… well here I will post this again seeing as people still can’t figure out how ANet wants this class to perform.

Jonathan Sharp
•Mesmers rely on illusions in order to accomplish their goals. They need illusions to accomplish some of their highest damage and control, and without the illusions, they become fairly fragile. They can deal with enemy boons better than most classes, but enemy conditions can often be a problem. They share some of the stealth and mobility that the Thief enjoys, but suffer from a low health pool if you get past all their tricks.

And he’s right enemy conditions ARE A PROBLEM FOR US. We have 3 ways to handle conditions
Arcane thievery Send 3 conditions to opponent get 3 boons. Meh Short range and might work might not

Null field: A glamour field that removes all conditions from allies and all boons from enemies (1 condition/boon per pulse if we can stay in it long enough we get 6 seconds IF!)

Mantra of resolve: total of 4 conditions but if it gets used up mantra’s have our longest cast times.

Website Description
Mesmers are magical duelists who wield deception as a weapon. Using powerful illusions, clones, and phantasmal magic to confuse and distract their foes, mesmers make sure every fight is balanced in their favor and their opponents can’t believe their eyes

So stop with the outrageous demands for mesmers to STILL get nerfed or lose clones or something. It is L2P. I have plenty of advice and other mesmers do as well!

jportell.2197:

Oh wow… well here I will post this again seeing as people still can’t figure out how ANet wants this class to perform.

Jonathan Sharp
•Mesmers rely on illusions in order to accomplish their goals. They need illusions to accomplish some of their highest damage and control, and without the illusions, they become fairly fragile. They can deal with enemy boons better than most classes, but enemy conditions can often be a problem. They share some of the stealth and mobility that the Thief enjoys, but suffer from a low health pool if you get past all their tricks.

And he’s right enemy conditions ARE A PROBLEM FOR US. We have 3 ways to handle conditions
Arcane thievery Send 3 conditions to opponent get 3 boons. Meh Short range and might work might not

Null field: A glamour field that removes all conditions from allies and all boons from enemies (1 condition/boon per pulse if we can stay in it long enough we get 6 seconds IF!)

Mantra of resolve: total of 4 conditions but if it gets used up mantra’s have our longest cast times.

Website Description
Mesmers are magical duelists who wield deception as a weapon. Using powerful illusions, clones, and phantasmal magic to confuse and distract their foes, mesmers make sure every fight is balanced in their favor and their opponents can’t believe their eyes

So stop with the outrageous demands for mesmers to STILL get nerfed or lose clones or something. It is L2P. I have plenty of advice and other mesmers do as well!

Annoyance factor and bad design stays i dont care what Jonathan Sharp says.Also, condition damage not being mitigated by toughness ( for some reason) is problem for most classes and builds not just mesmers, you are grasping at straws and repeating good ol “l2p” mantra, how typical.Most people know how to play already, they just hate annoying pvp fun killing mesmers, plain and simple.

Toughness doesn’t mitigate conditions… VITALITY does. Toughness is for fighting against RAW damage. Vitality is for conditions. And I repeat this mantra of L2P so much because I fight mesmers on the regular and I don’t have a problem (which means it is possible). There are tells. And they are very easy to figure out. If you want to sit there and beat on each other with auto attack go play something else.

jportell.2197:

Toughness doesn’t mitigate conditions… VITALITY does. Toughness is for fighting against RAW damage. Vitality is for conditions. And I repeat this mantra of L2P so much because I fight mesmers on the regular and I don’t have a problem (which means it is possible). There are tells. And they are very easy to figure out. If you want to sit there and beat on each other with auto attack go play something else.

Most people think that fighting mesmers is annoying, even if you dont. Get a clue.

The only thing that makes mesmers troublesome is portal and timewarp.

In terms of power, other than those things they arent anything special.

Which is the POINT of fighting mesmers! They aren’t supposed to be easy they are supposed to confuse you and distract you. Fighting d/d ele’s is REALLY annoying for me! But do I completely give up and say OH NERF NERF NERF! This isn’t fair because it “annoyed me” NO! I figure out how they rotate their attunement swaps. I learned that their earth attacks cause ALOT of bleeding. I know the best time to burst into them is right AFTER they switch from water. Fighting Necro’s is SUPER annoying for me because they can slap conditions on faster than I can rip them off. It may not be an L2P issue in your eyes in which case it is something else entirely which is learn how to take when you lose and try to figure out what you can do differently.

daydream.2938:

The only thing that makes mesmers troublesome is portal and timewarp.

In terms of power, other than those things they arent anything special.

Once again portal is getting shared most half the other classes have access to quickness and if they equip a sigil of rage they can have almost full uptime of it with no drawbacks as long as they invest heavily in their precision.

jportell.2197:

Which is the POINT of fighting mesmers! They aren’t supposed to be easy they are supposed to confuse you and distract you. Fighting d/d ele’s is REALLY annoying for me! But do I completely give up and say OH NERF NERF NERF! This isn’t fair because it “annoyed me” NO! I figure out how they rotate their attunement swaps. I learned that their earth attacks cause ALOT of bleeding. I know the best time to burst into them is right AFTER they switch from water. Fighting Necro’s is SUPER annoying for me because they can slap conditions on faster than I can rip them off. It may not be an L2P issue in your eyes in which case it is something else entirely which is learn how to take when you lose and try to figure out what you can do differently.

The point of mesmer class is to be annoying ? As i said – bad design.When i pvp i want to pvp not play “find the real mesmer” game.What a joke.

Then go Pvp somewhere else where you will find a class that you hate. The majority of the community ( the 99% of players that NEVER post here) have no issue with it and they just ask for advice and not whine. The point of mesmers is not to be annoying inherently but to deceive and confuse… If that annoys you then it is your problems and not the mesmers.