Guild Wars 2

Long time has passed, but now we can say that Guild Wars 2 is an e-sport!

Pic related.

I’m pretty sure that they are very skilled player, that’s because they won.

When life gives spam… make a sandwich?

too much info to process…
and also, too much ai playing for player

looks like wvw^^

I want Anet to buff Spirit Weapons, so we can have more AI!

a warrior complaining about a necro. l2p dude.

ye and they should rework warrior banners so they move too and use the banner spells random

or turrets from engi

zerg on node not big enough

Valentin.2073:

a warrior complaining about a necro. l2p dude.

For real, if you have 2 warriors you can forsure kill at least 1 necro in the 10 seconds of zerker stance, shoulda won that team fight np.

skill, lots and lots of skill

Zirith.6429:

Valentin.2073:

a warrior complaining about a necro. l2p dude.

For real, if you have 2 warriors you can forsure kill at least 1 necro in the 10 seconds of zerker stance, shoulda won that team fight np.

Well, it was a whole groupfight though…

So? GW1 had tons of lame Teambuilds as well – it was part of the game.

If there’s no possibility of making insane Lamerbuilds like NecroSpike, IWAY, Rangespike and stuff like that, I think theres something missing. Yes; we all hated those builds in GW1 and being a Player that always wanted to win “the right way”, I’ve almost pulled out my hair a couple of times cuz of those builds; but it made the Meta interesting and forced ppl to be creative and come up with new strategies etc.

It’s also nothing new to e-Sports to have what some ppl might call “Lame” strategies or builds or anything that can be abused to win: SC2 has tons of silly rush and timing-builds for example – it’s part of the game.

A bad Meta isn’t characterized by some ppl abusing a certain build (as long as it’s not getting completely out of hand and is clearly imbalanced) but by stuff like:

- Boring and stagnant Meta.
- Classes and Builds that simply aren’t viable, therefore restricting creativity and leading to the point named above.
- A Meta that is restricting Players into playing a certain way strategy-wise.

A lot of these things are heavily dependant on the game-design though – not only “simple” balancing.

I’d absolutely love to see how GW2 would be in a GvG-like Setting with 6 to maybe 8 players (8 might be too much, even on big GvG-Maps, cuz of lack of Healers and generally more self-sufficient Chars). If this would mean facing 8 Minion-Necro’s I wouldn’t mind, in fact, I’d be ecstatic!

capture the forest!

PowerBottom.5796:

So? GW1 had tons of lame Teambuilds as well – it was part of the game.

If there’s no possibility of making insane Lamerbuilds like NecroSpike, IWAY, Rangespike and stuff like that, I think theres something missing. Yes; we all hated those builds in GW1 and being a Player that always wanted to win “the right way”, I’ve almost pulled out my hair a couple of times cuz of those builds; but it made the Meta interesting and forced ppl to be creative and come up with new strategies etc.

It’s also nothing new to e-Sports to have what some ppl might call “Lame” strategies or builds or anything that can be abused to win: SC2 has tons of silly rush and timing-builds for example – it’s part of the game.

A bad Meta isn’t characterized by some ppl abusing a certain build (as long as it’s not getting completely out of hand and is clearly imbalanced) but by stuff like:

- Boring and stagnant Meta.
- Classes and Builds that simply aren’t viable, therefore restricting creativity and leading to the point named above.
- A Meta that is restricting Players into playing a certain way strategy-wise.

A lot of these things are heavily dependant on the game-design though – not only “simple” balancing.

I’d absolutely love to see how GW2 would be in a GvG-like Setting with 6 to maybe 8 players (8 might be too much, even on big GvG-Maps, cuz of lack of Healers and generally more self-sufficient Chars).

I think the screenshot is about how of a mess the battle field can be, while GW1 was pretty clean in even bigger fights.

Guys it’s Guild Wars 2. That’s part of the package – they built the game to allow players to surround themselves with AIs and rely on that.

If you want to play a game where AIs don’t exist and your skill matters, other games are out there.

You know what’s also chaotic and confusing?

Actual battles.

Qaelyn.7612:

You know what’s also chaotic and confusing?

Actual battles.

That’s why we play makebelieve battles on computers where they can be fun and fair. Instead of gruesome and fatal like actual battles.

PowerBottom.5796:

So? GW1 had tons of lame Teambuilds as well – it was part of the game.

If there’s no possibility of making insane Lamerbuilds like NecroSpike, IWAY, Rangespike and stuff like that, I think theres something missing. Yes; we all hated those builds in GW1 and being a Player that always wanted to win “the right way”, I’ve almost pulled out my hair a couple of times cuz of those builds; but it made the Meta interesting and forced ppl to be creative and come up with new strategies etc.

• In GW1, degen alone wasn’t necessarily a viable way to kill an opponent most of the time (either via hexes, conditions or a combination of the two).
• In GW1, there weren’t instant-activation passive procs everywhere. Players could actually see everything happening and triggering.
• In GW1, we had the “holy trinity” to deal with gimmicky spike team compositions like R-spike or even condition spam. IWAY and SWAY were nerfed. Necroway was sort of bandaid-nerfed with that weird update to protection prayers (although, that took ages). The reason R-spike stayed around for so long was because it was more fair than the others. R-spike required line-of-sight, it could be mitigated through protection prayers and blocks, and it also had a distinct cool-down on the spike around which the opposing team could play. There really wasn’t anything anyone could do most of the time against the other three gimmick comps. That’s the trick: in GW1, you actually had to land spells/attacks consistently and in a timely fashion in order to bring down an opponent.

• GW2 doesn’t have the “holy trinity” to deal with skills/skill spam that not only deals damage but that may also render an opponent helpless to either defend or retaliate with damage.
• The current GW2 condition-meta promotes mindless, ranged skill-spam that front-loads conditions onto low-recharge, fast-activating throwaway skills and rewards the condition player for spamming skills and then running around while auto-attacking for the rest of the encounter. Since there’s no one to remove conditions for you and condition players get conditions for free almost instantly and on incredibly short cool-downs, it just burns players out far more effectively than if the condition player just invested into power.

GW2 has made power less effective than condition damage. By doing so, ANet has undermined the usefulness of dodging, positioning and timing that was supposed to be the fundamental base of GW2 combat.

ANet needs to make power-based damage king in GW2. It’s the only way to heal this game’s pvp as it stands right now.

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

That’s why we play makebelieve battles on computers where they can be fun and fair. Instead of gruesome and fatal like actual battles.

What’s fun for you may not be fun for others.

Not to mention that WvW is far more popular than PvP and features much less balance in every respect.

Qaelyn.7612:

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

That’s why we play makebelieve battles on computers where they can be fun and fair. Instead of gruesome and fatal like actual battles.

What’s fun for you may not be fun for others.

Not to mention that WvW is far more popular than PvP and features much less balance in every respect.

Are you seriously trying to argue that screen clutter is fun and good for the game?

Qaelyn.7612:

You know what’s also chaotic and confusing?

Actual battles.

Then don’t be surprised tanks are dominating the battlefield (as it ended up in real open field warfar).

should have dodged

Sars.8792:

should have dodged

I wish that argument was still applicable. I really do.

Yeah it is pretty sad to see brain dead specs see so much play, because “muh e-sport foh casulz”

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

Are you seriously trying to argue that screen clutter is fun and good for the game?

I think it’s an entirely valid game mechanic that’s available to what, half the professions in the game. It’s part of those classes and people need to learn how to deal with it – just like all the other game mechanics that everyone constantly whines about.

redslion.9675:

Then don’t be surprised tanks are dominating the battlefield (as it ended up in real open field warfar).

I’m not.

PowerBottom.5796:

So? GW1 had tons of lame Teambuilds as well – it was part of the game.

Here is the big difference: A balanced build (with proper use of teamwork) in GW1, if you had the skill, could deal with any cheese. It’s one of the reasons why the game was so great. It got bad in its evening years, sure, but for most of its life this was the case in general.

Qaelyn.7612:

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

Are you seriously trying to argue that screen clutter is fun and good for the game?

I think it’s an entirely valid game mechanic that’s available to what, half the professions in the game. It’s part of those classes and people need to learn how to deal with it – just like all the other game mechanics that everyone constantly whines about.

redslion.9675:

Then don’t be surprised tanks are dominating the battlefield (as it ended up in real open field warfar).

I’m not.

except every other mechanic usually requires player to actively use it…while petting zoo is all ai

That’s false in so many ways that it’s not even worth listing them all.

PowerBottom.5796:

So? GW1 had tons of lame Teambuilds as well – it was part of the game.

If there’s no possibility of making insane Lamerbuilds like NecroSpike, IWAY, Rangespike and stuff like that, I think theres something missing. Yes; we all hated those builds in GW1 and being a Player that always wanted to win “the right way”, I’ve almost pulled out my hair a couple of times cuz of those builds; but it made the Meta interesting and forced ppl to be creative and come up with new strategies etc.

It’s also nothing new to e-Sports to have what some ppl might call “Lame” strategies or builds or anything that can be abused to win: SC2 has tons of silly rush and timing-builds for example – it’s part of the game.

A bad Meta isn’t characterized by some ppl abusing a certain build (as long as it’s not getting completely out of hand and is clearly imbalanced) but by stuff like:

- Boring and stagnant Meta.
- Classes and Builds that simply aren’t viable, therefore restricting creativity and leading to the point named above.
- A Meta that is restricting Players into playing a certain way strategy-wise.

A lot of these things are heavily dependant on the game-design though – not only “simple” balancing.

I’d absolutely love to see how GW2 would be in a GvG-like Setting with 6 to maybe 8 players (8 might be too much, even on big GvG-Maps, cuz of lack of Healers and generally more self-sufficient Chars). If this would mean facing 8 Minion-Necro’s I wouldn’t mind, in fact, I’d be ecstatic!

proper high ranked gw1 guilds f****d all those lame builds by splitting team and outplaying them with balanced setup.
argument invalid

Swagg.9236:

• In GW1, degen alone wasn’t necessarily a viable way to kill an opponent most of the time (either via hexes, conditions or a combination of the two).
• In GW1, there weren’t instant-activation passive procs everywhere. Players could actually see everything happening and triggering.
• In GW1, we had the “holy trinity” to deal with gimmicky spike team compositions like R-spike or even condition spam. IWAY and SWAY were nerfed. Necroway was sort of bandaid-nerfed with that weird update to protection prayers (although, that took ages). The reason R-spike stayed around for so long was because it was more fair than the others. R-spike required line-of-sight, it could be mitigated through protection prayers and blocks, and it also had a distinct cool-down on the spike around which the opposing team could play. There really wasn’t anything anyone could do most of the time against the other three gimmick comps. That’s the trick: in GW1, you actually had to land spells/attacks consistently and in a timely fashion in order to bring down an opponent.

• GW2 doesn’t have the “holy trinity” to deal with skills/skill spam that not only deals damage but that may also render an opponent helpless to either defend or retaliate with damage.
• The current GW2 condition-meta promotes mindless, ranged skill-spam that front-loads conditions onto low-recharge, fast-activating throwaway skills and rewards the condition player for spamming skills and then running around while auto-attacking for the rest of the encounter. Since there’s no one to remove conditions for you and condition players get conditions for free almost instantly and on incredibly short cool-downs, it just burns players out far more effectively than if the condition player just invested into power.

GW2 has made power less effective than condition damage. By doing so, ANet has undermined the usefulness of dodging, positioning and timing that was supposed to be the fundamental base of GW2 combat.

ANet needs to make power-based damage king in GW2. It’s the only way to heal this game’s pvp as it stands right now.

*Debuffs were so much more annoying in GW1, cuz’ u had two types of them which required mostly seperate cleansing-spells. It was much easier to abuse a Teambuild with Hex-Spam when the Meta wasn’t so full with those builds that every Team ran Max Hex-removal.

*True

*It’s not the Holy Trinity that allowed Teams to deal with silly builds like that, it was the game-type. Balanced-Builds were able to split against heavily 8v8-focused Teams and accomplish sth. Now, the opposing Team just needs a Tank on the Home-Node or a Portal and a ton of options for your Team is gone to combat Lame Builds by outplaying them strategically. That’s why I think that we need bigger Maps with more important secondary Objectives.

*Yepp, Conditions are kind of annoying, but IMHO mostly because the secondary Objectives aren’t important enough: Condi-Builds kill Gates and Trebs less effectively, they make it easy for the opposing Team to snipe Svanir/Chieftain etc.
It was true in GW1 as well that spamming COndis/Hexes was easier than coordinating Spikes and applying pressure to the backline with smart target-switching, but at least a Hex-build required a lot of dedication to surpass a certain amount of Hexes that was too easy to remove, which made the team have to give up advantages in other Areas of the Game. This should also be true for GW2, but it isn’t. It could be though:

- As stated above, make objectives more important (this would only work for a few maps, but with Map-rotation being random now, at least Teams would have to make a conscious decesion and set their priorities)
- Introduce more Team-fight oriented support Condi-Removal: Just make some of the AoE-Condi-Removal stronger like cleansing wave, warrior warhorn, plague signet etc. so teams could easier fight Conditions in bigger numbers, therefore opening up ways to play against Condi-builds and creating an interesting dynamic between Condition-builds trying to maximize their effectiveness by properly allocating Players on the Map (and the opposing team trying to combat that by moving even smarter).

But ANet will probably just nerf some stats if the whining gets too bad. -.-°

Swagg.9236:

PowerBottom.5796:

So? GW1 had tons of lame Teambuilds as well – it was part of the game.

If there’s no possibility of making insane Lamerbuilds like NecroSpike, IWAY, Rangespike and stuff like that, I think theres something missing. Yes; we all hated those builds in GW1 and being a Player that always wanted to win “the right way”, I’ve almost pulled out my hair a couple of times cuz of those builds; but it made the Meta interesting and forced ppl to be creative and come up with new strategies etc.

• In GW1, degen alone wasn’t necessarily a viable way to kill an opponent most of the time (either via hexes, conditions or a combination of the two).
• In GW1, there weren’t instant-activation passive procs everywhere. Players could actually see everything happening and triggering.
• In GW1, we had the “holy trinity” to deal with gimmicky spike team compositions like R-spike or even condition spam. IWAY and SWAY were nerfed. Necroway was sort of bandaid-nerfed with that weird update to protection prayers (although, that took ages). The reason R-spike stayed around for so long was because it was more fair than the others. R-spike required line-of-sight, it could be mitigated through protection prayers and blocks, and it also had a distinct cool-down on the spike around which the opposing team could play. There really wasn’t anything anyone could do most of the time against the other three gimmick comps. That’s the trick: in GW1, you actually had to land spells/attacks consistently and in a timely fashion in order to bring down an opponent.

• GW2 doesn’t have the “holy trinity” to deal with skills/skill spam that not only deals damage but that may also render an opponent helpless to either defend or retaliate with damage.
• The current GW2 condition-meta promotes mindless, ranged skill-spam that front-loads conditions onto low-recharge, fast-activating throwaway skills and rewards the condition player for spamming skills and then running around while auto-attacking for the rest of the encounter. Since there’s no one to remove conditions for you and condition players get conditions for free almost instantly and on incredibly short cool-downs, it just burns players out far more effectively than if the condition player just invested into power.

GW2 has made power less effective than condition damage. By doing so, ANet has undermined the usefulness of dodging, positioning and timing that was supposed to be the fundamental base of GW2 combat.

ANet needs to make power-based damage king in GW2. It’s the only way to heal this game’s pvp as it stands right now.

Remember Derv train?! <.<;

Qaelyn.7612:

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

Are you seriously trying to argue that screen clutter is fun and good for the game?

I think it’s an entirely valid game mechanic that’s available to what, half the professions in the game. It’s part of those classes and people need to learn how to deal with it – just like all the other game mechanics that everyone constantly whines about.

IMHO the main problem with the petting zoo mechanic is that it forces you to fight the game’s interface instead of your opponent which makes it dull and extremely frustrating.

The act of having to kill a specific spirit to remove a specific buff from the ranger isn’t the problem. The problem is there is no surefire quick way to target the spirit (or the ranger or whatever) at the right time with all those npcs around.

Compare a 3v3 fight on mid against pet classes in gw2 with a 3v3 arena match in wow, which is a pretty fair comparison of gameplay I’d say:

GW2: The enemy targets are 2 small asuras each with 4 pets (necro mm + spirit ranger) and a mesmer which spawns about an average of 1-2 extra targets. GW2 has pretty amazing graphics for an mmo so all those spirits casting their spells looks fancy but also makes it extremely hard to make out details in the enemy clutter. You have to click your targets in that mess and watch out for tiny animations on asuras for skills they use.

WOW: There could also be a shaman with 4 totems, most classes had pets in the end. But you had those really information heavy health and cast bars above your enemies in the game, and also had a side display with all enemy players and their buffs/debuff and cast bars so you could easily click them and interrupt them for example.

GW2 is (was?) all about being able to play the game not the interface, so they don’t show cast bars because they want you to watch the action for example. But for that concept to work we need to be able to see clearly and be able to select targets more efficiently (tab target also takes way too long to select a specific target in a brawl).

Having enemy castbars which are readable and easily clickable in a huge brawl would probably instantly fix the whole screen clutter issue.

Valentin.2073:

a warrior complaining about a necro. l2p dude.

he was complaining about the visual particle spam idiot

That’s a reasonable complaint. But really, I just see it as a part of the game.

ahuba.6430:

Valentin.2073:

a warrior complaining about a necro. l2p dude.

he was complaining about the visual particle spam idiot

why is this guy still here on forums? this person should be banned from forums for being abusive and extremely rude.

pls dont let people like this infest your forums, anet.

this is just a game and people just wanna play. if youre not having fun just go away. we dont want anymore rude people in the game. you should be ashamed of yourself.

Stacking similar classes/builds like AI petting zoo (mesmers,necros,spranger), stunlock-CC trolls (hambows,D/P thieves), condi-spam (necros,engies) will almost always be annoying as hell. And I’m not sure of an easy fix on this but to promote build diversity and a correction on risk/reward ratio on certain builds especially passive and spammy ones.

I’m curious what an all mm 5v5 fight would look like.

Zietlogik.6208:

Remember Derv train?! <.<;

And then Onslaught got wrecked. Also Avatar of Grenth, but I guess that happened before Onslaught, thank goodness.

Valentin.2073:

ahuba.6430:

Valentin.2073:

a warrior complaining about a necro. l2p dude.

he was complaining about the visual particle spam idiot

why is this guy still here on forums? this person should be banned from forums for being abusive and extremely rude.

pls dont let people like this infest your forums, anet.

this is just a game and people just wanna play. if youre not having fun just go away. we dont want anymore rude people in the game. you should be ashamed of yourself.

“mommy charlie bit my finger :’(”
It’s funny, you just said to a guy “learn to play” which is in itself an abusive and insulting thing to say on gaming forums. You only meant to offend when you said it, and you had no background to think that “sorrow” is a bad player. And not only that, you were also wrong on what you said, because no where in the post does “sorrow.2364” complains that MM necros are op. There is only a picture that clearly shows why MM necros are bad for the game and that is the screen clutter. You were the first person to be rude on this thread. God, I can’t stand hypocrite people like you acting all good Samaritan.

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

Having enemy castbars which are readable and easily clickable in a huge brawl would probably instantly fix the whole screen clutter issue.

Just out of curiosity, how on earth do you think that adding more information to an already overloaded screen will make it less cluttered?

Valentin.2073:

a warrior complaining about a necro. l2p dude.

Dude, pls.
I don’t really give a kitten if a random guy on the forum thinks I have no right to complain. Get off your I’m better than you attitude or simply don’t post.

I really didn’t want to play warrior as I usually don’t, as you can clearly see on the champ progression. But when you see a team of 3 necros and 1 warrior on the enemy side as an elementalist, your team is gonna say “man. Get your elemental kitten on warrior or you’re going to be roflstomped”.

But don’t worry random dude, I’m sure you’re good and you would have done better than me.

Swagg.9236:

PowerBottom.5796:

So? GW1 had tons of lame Teambuilds as well – it was part of the game.

If there’s no possibility of making insane Lamerbuilds like NecroSpike, IWAY, Rangespike and stuff like that, I think theres something missing. Yes; we all hated those builds in GW1 and being a Player that always wanted to win “the right way”, I’ve almost pulled out my hair a couple of times cuz of those builds; but it made the Meta interesting and forced ppl to be creative and come up with new strategies etc.

• In GW1, degen alone wasn’t necessarily a viable way to kill an opponent most of the time (either via hexes, conditions or a combination of the two).
• In GW1, there weren’t instant-activation passive procs everywhere. Players could actually see everything happening and triggering.
• In GW1, we had the “holy trinity” to deal with gimmicky spike team compositions like R-spike or even condition spam. IWAY and SWAY were nerfed. Necroway was sort of bandaid-nerfed with that weird update to protection prayers (although, that took ages). The reason R-spike stayed around for so long was because it was more fair than the others. R-spike required line-of-sight, it could be mitigated through protection prayers and blocks, and it also had a distinct cool-down on the spike around which the opposing team could play. There really wasn’t anything anyone could do most of the time against the other three gimmick comps. That’s the trick: in GW1, you actually had to land spells/attacks consistently and in a timely fashion in order to bring down an opponent.

• GW2 doesn’t have the “holy trinity” to deal with skills/skill spam that not only deals damage but that may also render an opponent helpless to either defend or retaliate with damage.
• The current GW2 condition-meta promotes mindless, ranged skill-spam that front-loads conditions onto low-recharge, fast-activating throwaway skills and rewards the condition player for spamming skills and then running around while auto-attacking for the rest of the encounter. Since there’s no one to remove conditions for you and condition players get conditions for free almost instantly and on incredibly short cool-downs, it just burns players out far more effectively than if the condition player just invested into power.

GW2 has made power less effective than condition damage. By doing so, ANet has undermined the usefulness of dodging, positioning and timing that was supposed to be the fundamental base of GW2 combat.

ANet needs to make power-based damage king in GW2. It’s the only way to heal this game’s pvp as it stands right now.

This.

Have you noticed that when people are playing high power builds, you actually have to be creative and outplay each other? As opposed to mindlessly spamming AI and conditions that don’t really require any timing.

Direct damage has a much higher risk/reward ratio. The problem is, Arenanet has not implemented enough risk with numerous builds.

In my opinion, players should have to make quick decisions, or face the consequences and NOT get consistently bailed out by crutches and cheesy mechanics that require little or no thought.

Amstel Steel.2058:

I’m curious what an all mm 5v5 fight would look like.

i know there were servers that ran 40+ man minionmancers uplv zergs… that force was unstoppable

Cynz.9437:

Amstel Steel.2058:

I’m curious what an all mm 5v5 fight would look like.

i know there were servers that ran 40+ man minionmancers uplv zergs… that force was unstoppable

(Proof)

Possible fix: AoE cap does not pertain to pets/minions/spirits/etc…or put it another way: Maximum AoE targets = 5 players.

All hail the glass staff ele.

just dont allow spirits + necro minions in spvp

The problem with conditions is only partially that they can burst so hard. The major problem is that they can do so while being incredibly tanky. I’ve seen Necromancers literally insta-gib players faster than any thief would be able to, and the Necromancer was still sturdy like a truck.
If Necromancers were as vulnerable as a full GC Staff Ele then we would only be dealing with a minor problem.

I super like the blood fiend way to the top right. It damages foes and heals the necro passively, yet it is no where near the necro..so let’s talk about how healing signet is still OP..at least when you hit the warrior their healing signet doesn’t hit back and you don’t need to attack something half a large node away to lessen their healing.

Pyroatheist.9031:

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

Having enemy castbars which are readable and easily clickable in a huge brawl would probably instantly fix the whole screen clutter issue.

Just out of curiosity, how on earth do you think that adding more information to an already overloaded screen will make it less cluttered?

If you read the rest of my quoted post you’d know why. The main problem isn’t the 3D models of the pets jumping around, it’s that they obscure vision and targeting. So you can’t see when that necro casts fear besides all his minions and can’t swiftly target him when he does. Enemy castbars and nameplates a la WoW would instantly solve that problematic.

Shortbow spirit Ranger, 2 MM’s Necros, 1 Mesmer and a Turret Engi! Best team eva!!!
Now we can only hope that spirit weapons can be good so that we can fit a guardian in there.
Beying a Guardian Pve/PvP/WvW, i’ve tried this MM necro in pvp and lol…besides having 25/26K HP and 3.5k power i just let my minions to do the job, pop DS and #4 with transfusion to the extra health to my team mates and this is actually fun to play but at the same time its just sad

Just out of curiosity, how on earth do you think that adding more information to an already overloaded screen will make it less cluttered?

It wouldn’t make it less cluttered, but would still make the game more readable. The problem with the clutter is that it hides the relevant information: instead of seeing that asura casting a mark, I see a forest animal just standing there. For example air plane kittenpits are completly loaded with all sorts of gauges and what not. But they are still easy to read because the relevant information isn’t hidden by the less important meters.

Qaelyn.7612:

That’s a reasonable complaint. But really, I just see it as a part of the game.

That’s a trivial statement with no value. No matter how badly a given mechanic would ruin an otherwise interesting game, the statement “it’s part of the game” would still be true. Thus it can’t work as an argument when debating whether if a given mechanic should exist in a game.