Guild Wars 2

Oh wait…

i thought, no way… whhhhat

and then whammy!

New challenge – play a “default” build all the way to legendary.

Ok, it’s buggy but the Intent is here !

So pessimistic think of it at being halfway. It’s the most difficult part too.

As a game developer myself, I can confirm that if they have this system now in place Build templates can easily be implemented for the next content patch. As Tim pointed out, what they have now is the most difficult part to code so I think it’s really close to be a thing FINALLY!!

Well considering build diversity is so bad and everyone copies Metabattle I guess ANET just uses those as templates?

/sarcasm

Cant believe ANET had a chance to give us what weve been asking for and they f it up.

Spartacus.3192:

Well considering build diversity is so bad and everyone copies Metabattle I guess ANET just uses those as templates?

/sarcasm

Cant believe ANET had a chance to give us what weve been asking for and they f it up.

They didn’t f it up. It’s a really complex system to implement and they just finished the hardest part of it. Just wait 2-3 more months and you will see

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

Spartacus.3192:

Well considering build diversity is so bad and everyone copies Metabattle I guess ANET just uses those as templates?

/sarcasm

Cant believe ANET had a chance to give us what weve been asking for and they f it up.

They didn’t f it up. It’s a really complex system to implement and they just finished the hardest part of it. Just wait 2-3 more months and you will see

I haven’t seen the builds but unless its pure metabattle builds (I tend to use modified version so even that wont help me) who would use that new function?

Spartacus.3192:

I haven’t seen the builds but unless its pure metabattle builds (I tend to use modified version so even that wont help me) who would use that new function?

It’s not a matter of the usefulness of builds or not, they are there to help newcomers start fighting right away. The thing is they have now the technology to load builds out, which is freaking awesome because the only thing they need to do now is linking build templates (like in GW1) and solve several other problems like what happens when you don’t have a weapon of the template or a trait unlocked when you are in PvE?
So, all in all, we are really close to the release of the build templates. They just decided to give newbie people a new tool for PvP and the rest of us a glimpse of the incoming system. Honestly, I prefer knowing that the build templates are close than being kept in the darkness more months.

I also thought nice, but what builds to put in? But hey, two useful per class might be doable …

Wolfric.9380:

I also thought nice, but what builds to put in? But hey, two useful per class might be doable …

now we just need to HAVE 2 builds per class, boom!

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

It’s a really complex system to implement…

No it really isn’t.

zinkz.7045:

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

It’s a really complex system to implement…

No it really isn’t.

Yes, it really is.

For the necromancers it’s not the metabattle one, but it’s bad anyway.
Good but for shure not the best.
They tried to put on the corruptmancer build with two different utility skills and the always good plague signet. But they gave us a build that will only make bad players die fast and scream against that default build more and more XD
Just a good choice to not put the signet build, only why it’s the easiest way to kill necro newbyes and make them ragequit to another class (a good one, for example)

Razor.9872:

zinkz.7045:

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

It’s a really complex system to implement…

No it really isn’t.

Yes, it really is.

No dear, a build template system is a bog standard system in most games, that this game still does not have it after 4 years is well…

zinkz.7045:

Razor.9872:

zinkz.7045:

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

It’s a really complex system to implement…

No it really isn’t.

Yes, it really is.

No dear, a build template system is a bog standard system in most games, that this game still does not have it after 4 years is well…

Yes dear, a build template system being a bog standard system in most games does not make it simple to implement in this game. Heck, it may have been complex to implement in the other games, but it was decided to be a priority there. Taking more than 4 years to implement is irrelevant. It simply means it was not a priority for the devs.

Razor.9872:

zinkz.7045:

Razor.9872:

zinkz.7045:

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

It’s a really complex system to implement…

No it really isn’t.

Yes, it really is.

No dear, a build template system is a bog standard system in most games, that this game still does not have it after 4 years is well…

Yes dear, a build template system being a bog standard system in most games does not make it simple to implement in this game. Heck, it may have been complex to implement in the other games, but it was decided to be a priority there. Taking more than 4 years to implement is irrelevant. It simply means it was not a priority for the devs.

No dear, a build template system is not a complex system in any game, it is not complex in nature.

It’s rather amusing how difficult incremental development is to grasp for some people.

“What do you mean you have to build a foundation before putting my house up?! I want it done now!”

Seriously…

Fay.2357:

It’s rather amusing how difficult incremental development is to grasp for some people.

“What do you mean you have to build a foundation before putting my house up?! I want it done now!”

Seriously…

Except you don’t move into the house when only the foundation is built. You move in when the whole house is done.

This premature release is pretty useless and to say it helps new players is insulting new players intelligence.

Spartacus.3192:

Fay.2357:

It’s rather amusing how difficult incremental development is to grasp for some people.

“What do you mean you have to build a foundation before putting my house up?! I want it done now!”

Seriously…

Except you don’t move into the house when only the foundation is built. You move in when the whole house is done.

This premature release is pretty useless and to say it helps new players is insulting new players intelligence.

You don’t move in, but the contractor will take you for a spin around the property to inspect the progress.

That’s what this release is. It’s a quick spin around the foundation so that we can see they’ve been working on templates, they’ve made progress, and they’re close to a usable form. The ‘new player thing’ is just an excuse to upper management to release a semi-finished feature so that we can all see it sooner.

zinkz.7045:

Razor.9872:

zinkz.7045:

Razor.9872:

zinkz.7045:

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

It’s a really complex system to implement…

No it really isn’t.

Yes, it really is.

No dear, a build template system is a bog standard system in most games, that this game still does not have it after 4 years is well…

Yes dear, a build template system being a bog standard system in most games does not make it simple to implement in this game. Heck, it may have been complex to implement in the other games, but it was decided to be a priority there. Taking more than 4 years to implement is irrelevant. It simply means it was not a priority for the devs.

No dear, a build template system is not a complex system in any game, it is not complex in nature.

Yes dear, a build template system can be more or less complex depending on the structure of code with the game it is in. As for nature, I doubt you can find build templates in nature.

Razor.9872:

Yes dear, a build template system can be more or less complex depending on the structure of code with the game it is in. As for nature, I doubt you can find build templates in nature.

My post was apparently too complex for you to understand…

Can’t wait to see all the “high damage, high mobility” core ranger that will be unable to kill anything because they are playing the worst class in the game.
I think anet misspelled “complete garbage that has never been competitive” there.
Necro builds seem not perfect but reasonable. Haven’t checked other classes.

zinkz.7045:

Razor.9872:

Yes dear, a build template system can be more or less complex depending on the structure of code with the game it is in. As for nature, I doubt you can find build templates in nature.

My post was apparently too complex for you to understand…

Keep telling yourself that.

Razor.9872:

zinkz.7045:

Razor.9872:

Yes dear, a build template system can be more or less complex depending on the structure of code with the game it is in. As for nature, I doubt you can find build templates in nature.

The way my post went right over your head is amusing.

The way you think your post went right over my head is amusing.

You see this bit – "Yes dear, a build template system can be more or less complex depending on the structure of code with the game it is in. " that is entirely incorrect, because of “a build template system is not complex in nature”, you don’t seem to understand what makes certain systems inherently complex and others not, what game it is in or the code of that game is irrelevant.

zinkz.7045:

Razor.9872:

zinkz.7045:

Razor.9872:

Yes dear, a build template system can be more or less complex depending on the structure of code with the game it is in. As for nature, I doubt you can find build templates in nature.

The way my post went right over your head is amusing.

The way you think your post went right over my head is amusing.

You see this bit – "Yes dear, a build template system can be more or less complex depending on the structure of code with the game it is in. " that is entirely incorrect, because of “a build template system is not complex in nature”, you don’t seem to understand what makes certain systems inherently complex and others not, what game it is in or the code of that game is irrelevant.

Mmmmmm yesssss I looooove me some good armchair developers. Please keep going, I can’t get enough of uninformed opinions and baseless statements!

zinkz.7045:

Razor.9872:

zinkz.7045:

Razor.9872:

Yes dear, a build template system can be more or less complex depending on the structure of code with the game it is in. As for nature, I doubt you can find build templates in nature.

The way my post went right over your head is amusing.

The way you think your post went right over my head is amusing.

You see this bit – "Yes dear, a build template system can be more or less complex depending on the structure of code with the game it is in. " that is entirely incorrect, because of “a build template system is not complex in nature”, you don’t seem to understand what makes certain systems inherently complex and others not, what game it is in or the code of that game is irrelevant.

The structure of the game’s code is not irrelevant. It is actually imperative to the complexity of implementing build templates. As a software developer, I understand all too well the issues an old structure (that worked fine at the time) can cause when trying to implement a new one.

You seem to be mistaking mechanic complexity for implementation complexity. The two are entirely separate beings.

Fay.2357:

Mmmmmm yesssss I looooove me some good armchair developers. Please keep going, I can’t get enough of uninformed opinions and baseless statements!

If you worked in software engineering, etc to a decent level, then you would know what I am saying is correct, it is only people with no clue who think you can’t make certain statements about systems without having the code in front of you.

zinkz.7045:

Fay.2357:

Mmmmmm yesssss I looooove me some good armchair developers. Please keep going, I can’t get enough of uninformed opinions and baseless statements!

If you worked in software engineering, etc to a decent level, then you would know what I am saying is correct, it is only people with no clue who think you can’t make certain statements about systems without having the code in front of you.

Oh the hypocrisy! It’s too much!

zinkz.7045:

Fay.2357:

Mmmmmm yesssss I looooove me some good armchair developers. Please keep going, I can’t get enough of uninformed opinions and baseless statements!

If you worked in software engineering, etc to a decent level, then you would know what I am saying is correct, it is only people with no clue who think you can’t make certain statements about systems without having the code in front of you.

And we’re supposed to just take you at your word that you’ve worked in software development to a decent level? If you have, then so have I, and I say you’re wrong. Where does that leave us?

Fay.2357:

zinkz.7045:

Fay.2357:

Mmmmmm yesssss I looooove me some good armchair developers. Please keep going, I can’t get enough of uninformed opinions and baseless statements!

If you worked in software engineering, etc to a decent level, then you would know what I am saying is correct, it is only people with no clue who think you can’t make certain statements about systems without having the code in front of you.

And we’re supposed to just take you at your word that you’ve worked in software development to a decent level? If you have, then so have I, and I say you’re wrong. Where does that leave us?

Inherently, implementing a “build template system” is really not hard. I’m a software engineer since 2004, take it as you will. However, there are a few theories on why ANet is unable to deliver:

1) Money-grab, by forcing players to purchase extra character slots.

2) Technical debt. Their code base is now one long spaghetti which is a nightmare to scale and maintain. I think it really shows with every new patch they push out and lack of QA, and their excuse for “limitations”.

I think it’s a bit of both.

Dariya.9380:

Fay.2357:

zinkz.7045:

Fay.2357:

Mmmmmm yesssss I looooove me some good armchair developers. Please keep going, I can’t get enough of uninformed opinions and baseless statements!

If you worked in software engineering, etc to a decent level, then you would know what I am saying is correct, it is only people with no clue who think you can’t make certain statements about systems without having the code in front of you.

And we’re supposed to just take you at your word that you’ve worked in software development to a decent level? If you have, then so have I, and I say you’re wrong. Where does that leave us?

Inherently, implementing a “build template system” is really not hard. I’m a software engineer since 2004, take it as you will. However, there are a few theories on why ANet is unable to deliver:

1) Money-grab, by forcing players to purchase extra character slots.

2) Technical debt. Their code base is now one long spaghetti which is a nightmare to scale and maintain. I think it really shows with every new patch they push out and lack of QA, and their excuse for “limitations”.

I think it’s a bit of both.

“Not hard”… For a kittenty version?
It is complex depending on the scope. Anet likes to go for broad scope and high quality, for better or worse.

Money-grab? Just no.
Technical debt? Maybe

But for a dev with so much “experience” you do seem to be pretty ignorant.

butch.8136:

Dariya.9380:

Fay.2357:

zinkz.7045:

Fay.2357:

Mmmmmm yesssss I looooove me some good armchair developers. Please keep going, I can’t get enough of uninformed opinions and baseless statements!

If you worked in software engineering, etc to a decent level, then you would know what I am saying is correct, it is only people with no clue who think you can’t make certain statements about systems without having the code in front of you.

And we’re supposed to just take you at your word that you’ve worked in software development to a decent level? If you have, then so have I, and I say you’re wrong. Where does that leave us?

Inherently, implementing a “build template system” is really not hard. I’m a software engineer since 2004, take it as you will. However, there are a few theories on why ANet is unable to deliver:

1) Money-grab, by forcing players to purchase extra character slots.

2) Technical debt. Their code base is now one long spaghetti which is a nightmare to scale and maintain. I think it really shows with every new patch they push out and lack of QA, and their excuse for “limitations”.

I think it’s a bit of both.

“Not hard”… For a kittenty version?
It is complex depending on the scope. Anet likes to go for broad scope and high quality, for better or worse.

Money-grab? Just no.
Technical debt? Maybe

But for a dev with so much “experience” you do seem to be pretty ignorant.

And he is almost certainly underestimating the inherent complexity of a MMO code.

Varezenem.2813:

butch.8136:

Dariya.9380:

Fay.2357:

zinkz.7045:

Fay.2357:

Mmmmmm yesssss I looooove me some good armchair developers. Please keep going, I can’t get enough of uninformed opinions and baseless statements!

If you worked in software engineering, etc to a decent level, then you would know what I am saying is correct, it is only people with no clue who think you can’t make certain statements about systems without having the code in front of you.

And we’re supposed to just take you at your word that you’ve worked in software development to a decent level? If you have, then so have I, and I say you’re wrong. Where does that leave us?

Inherently, implementing a “build template system” is really not hard. I’m a software engineer since 2004, take it as you will. However, there are a few theories on why ANet is unable to deliver:

1) Money-grab, by forcing players to purchase extra character slots.

2) Technical debt. Their code base is now one long spaghetti which is a nightmare to scale and maintain. I think it really shows with every new patch they push out and lack of QA, and their excuse for “limitations”.

I think it’s a bit of both.

“Not hard”… For a kittenty version?
It is complex depending on the scope. Anet likes to go for broad scope and high quality, for better or worse.

Money-grab? Just no.
Technical debt? Maybe

But for a dev with so much “experience” you do seem to be pretty ignorant.

And he is almost certainly underestimating the inherent complexity of a MMO code.

Indeed. One long spaghetti? Try a massive tangled ball with a thousand strands that gets added to every time they push a release to live.

The standard builds are actually a good thing. It is one of the things A-net can do to close the gap between new/noobs and average players. By giving them a working build standard to work with it. And so they will know the current meta’s working strength of a class,eventually learn what each class needs to viable and why and adjust to meta quicker. And if they have some creativity end up creating builds themselves.

Getting some kind of tutorial, help is where I’ve Always been for. It’s one of those things that will affect match quality indirectly.

Leaving a calf in the lions den is not quite responsible.

It’s because of the lack of a basics explanation for such a complex game, no rather a simple game with so many layers to it is also responsible for kittenty matchmaking.

Now a basic repeating tutorial simulating a pvp match. I prefer the battle npcs to use something similar to a meta build as well.

I also say its a good thing and hope personal builds are added.
And i hope it´s not a step to tell peaople what they should play. I play games like GW2 for diversity and “Theorafting”.

If games where so easy to program I wonder why people can’t make games better than Guildwars 2 on their spare time.

I am maintaining a e-store and some times the whole site gets screwed up from just putting up a product. And to fix problems like that I have to spend up to a few hours to find what is wrong.

I can imagine that an add on like build templates for GW2 that has to verify many possibilities that is mixed with other codes.

I haven’t looked now but when I browsed the dev tracker I read something about problems with the default build mechanic they just implemented. In my opinion it is a good way to try out the first part of the build template, but of course some people rather have nothing for a year than a little piece of the cake each month.