Guild Wars 2

I think we can all agree that the entire point of being “downed” is to be able to fight back and have a SLIM chance at surviving.

But thieves and elementalists negate this basis. What I’m getting at is how thieves can finish in stealth and elementalists can pop vapor form to become untouchable. This is an unfair advantage that makes it almost impossible to fight back (yeslol I have elixir S – Doesn’t make me feel any better about it).

What I plead for, silently (except now) and personally is that activation of any form of stealth or invulnerability should block or interrupt finishers. We should all have a chance to fight back to our last breath, regardless of what class we are.
Who agrees?

My 2 cents.

This is actually a very sensible and levelheaded idea. Anyone disagree?

You have to undestand that any downed opponent is still a important threat to fragile classes, being hit for 1k out of 15khp by a downed opponent is not rare with my thief and stealth is actually our protection, otherwise we likely have to fight anyone twice.

Thieves can still be hit and interrupted in stealth.

muscarine.5136:

You have to undestand that any downed opponent is still a important threat to fragile classes, being hit for 1k out of 15khp by a downed opponent is not rare with my thief and stealth is actually our protection, otherwise we likely have to fight anyone twice.

Spam heartseeker?

Malicious.6742:

Thieves can still be hit and interrupted in stealth.

Yes but only with aoe attacks – they will simply stand behind you.

How can anyone argue this? He’s asking for a reasonable request to make them equal.

You don’t seem to understand. Removing the ability to stealth for thieves and alike is giving way too much of an advantage to other classes once downed.

Spamming HS won’t save you from rangers pets, mesmers clones and so forth.

Why are only Thieves and Eles mentioned? All classes can get stability and others like engie and mesmers can become invulnerable too, pretty much every class has a way to secure a stomp, not just ele and thief.

I agree. I am an Elementalist and I have used Mist Form to stomp players in the middle of a group of their teamates.

They should also remove the haste buff from working on stomp, because getting stomped in 1 second sucks.

Not all classes can go invul while stomping Flump. I’m not saying remove stealth but maybe disallow it from finishing players?

I’d rather see necro, engie, and ranger get a buff to their downed skills. I’d say buff warrior, but they have Vengance.

Arken.3725:

Not all classes can go invul while stomping Flump. I’m not saying remove stealth but maybe disallow it from finishing players?

EVERYONE has access to an “advantage” in stomping.

Haste Stomps, Blinding Stomps, Stealth Stomps, Invuln Stomps, and Stability Stomps…Who doesn’t have access to one? Of course there’s the ever popular dodge roll stomp…

Arken.3725:

Not all classes can go invul while stomping Flump. I’m not saying remove stealth but maybe disallow it from finishing players?

I never said all classes could go invul i said they all can secure a stomp Via Stability, invul or blinds. Warriors can pop balanced stance and endure pain, ranges can make there pets take all dmg and can use stability, mesmers have distortion, engis have that one that makes then shrink and invul, gaurdians have stablity, Necro has the least with just the 3 sec stability from DS if traited and maybe some blinds.

all classes can have ways to secure a stomp, Stopping stomps from stealth and invuls take it off stability as well to make it fair, making the only wait to secure would be blinds and teleports.

Not all classes can go invulnerable. but they have skills to get Stability/Stealth/invulnerable

Warrior – Endure Pain (Take no damage)
Balanced Stance (Gain Stability)

Guardian – Stand your ground (Stability)

Engineers – Elixir S – (Shrink and Invuln or Grow with Stability/Stealth)

Ranger – Protect me (Pet takes all damage)
Rampage as one (Stability)

Thief – They have Stealth

Elementalist – Mist form

Mesmer – Distraction Shatter (Distort)

Necromancer – Foot in the Grave (3s Stability in DS)

So every class has access to this, some more effective than others.

You’re right, sorry I misread. But the difference is that even with stability you can be damaged and have it removed. While invul, you’re good to go regardless of the situation.

Thieves can still be interrupted.
Stability is a common buff. Most classes have some way of applying it. Engineers can use Elixir S to finish people.

Stealth finishers are the least unfair of all finishers.

Arken.3725:

Not all classes can go invul while stomping Flump. I’m not saying remove stealth but maybe disallow it from finishing players?

All classes have access to some mechanic similar to stealth/mist form while stomping.

Furthermore, stealth is one of the weaker ones. In downed state, thief can teleport or (after cool up) stealth themselves, preventing a stealth stomp. Ele can mistform away. Mesmer can do their mini-stealth clone thing to escape. Guardian’s knockback hits everyone, stealthed or not (but is blocked by stability). I don’t know how exactly Engineer or Ranger’s skills work, so I’m not sure if they work through stealth or not. Warrior can still interrupt if the thief didn’t maneuver out of the way. I think Necro is screwed (fear needs a target doesn’t it?) but they also have an advantage in downed state with their Life Leech otherwise.

Rangers getting 2s quickness on pet swap – mad op

7 of the 8 classes have ways to gain stability (not including elites)
5 of the 8 have ways to take no dmg
5 of the the 8 classes can Haste stop (All classes can get haste from a mesmer)
only 3 classes i can think off that can rip boons (thief, necro and mesmer) I dont know if others have it
EVERY class has a way to secure a stop

If you had it your way every class should get a boon rip for stability stomps and invul and stealth shouldn’t be able to stomp

Oxstar.7643:

I think we can all agree that the entire point of being “downed” is to be able to fight back and have a SLIM chance at surviving.

But thieves and elementalists negate this basis. What I’m getting at is how thieves can finish in stealth and elementalists can pop vapor form to become untouchable. This is an unfair advantage that makes it almost impossible to fight back.

What I plead for, silently (except now) and personally is that activation of any form of stealth or invulnerability should block or interrupt finishers. We should all have a chance to fight back to our last breath, regardless of what class we are.
Who agrees?

My 2 cents.

Since you are/play an engineer you have to be willing to add elixir s into the list as well. Elixir S can perform invulnerability stomps as well. Don’t just make a list including all of the “unfair” invulnerability stomp options out there and leave your classes invul stomp out of it.

Arken.3725:

You’re right, sorry I misread. But the difference is that even with stability you can be damaged and have it removed. While invul, you’re good to go regardless of the situation.

Stealth does not make the thief invulnerable. He can still be hit, snared, immobilized, or interrupted.

Also, Thieves and Mesmers (2 of the most common classes) cannot be invuln-stomped effectively due to their downed skills.

Edit: And Ele, woops.

As a player who has used thief since the start out of Beta. I haven’t used FOTM builds or such with thief, I stuck with it, despite all the changes, like pistol whip, backstab nerf twice, etc. Invisibility has to be one of the most important aspects of thief survivability. Without it, glass cannon thieves are utterly useless. In a fight against a ranger glass cannon who uses a raven, it’s all a matter of them interrupting your heal and they win. Likewise, it’s all about you landing that basilisk to get them down. At the very end, if both a thief were downed, and a ranger. The ranger will ALWAYS win because of their pet. That is why invisibility is absolutely necessary.

However, to ask for a nerf on invisibility while stomping, think about how useless a glass cannon thief would be in team fights. They could down 50 people, but unless they make that kill, it does absolutely nothing for the team. I personally haven’t had any problems with mist form on ele’s. Yes, it does suck from time to time, but in a 1v1, if you get them down first, you’re in the clear unless they get out of your line of sight.

Though honestly, the haste stomp is a bit over-powered if you have a slow reaction time. Think faster! lol, all I can say for now.

Mesmer downed#2 is actually pretty easy to counter because it has cast time. Thief downed#2 needs a blink/shadowstep utility. Hardest to stomp is Ele. They cannot be stomped first try in like 90%-95% of all cases.

Aeonex.7482:

As a player who has used thief since the start out of Beta. I haven’t used FOTM builds or such with thief, I stuck with it, despite all the changes, like pistol whip, backstab nerf twice, etc. Invisibility has to be one of the most important aspects of thief survivability. Without it, glass cannon thieves are utterly useless. In a fight against a ranger glass cannon who uses a raven, it’s all a matter of them interrupting your heal and they win. Likewise, it’s all about you landing that basilisk to get them down. At the very end, if both a thief were downed, and a ranger. The ranger will ALWAYS win because of their pet. That is why invisibility is absolutely necessary.

However, to ask for a nerf on invisibility while stomping, think about how useless a glass cannon thief would be in team fights. They could down 50 people, but unless they make that kill, it does absolutely nothing for the team. I personally haven’t had any problems with mist form on ele’s. Yes, it does suck from time to time, but in a 1v1, if you get them down first, you’re in the clear unless they get out of your line of sight.

Though honestly, the haste stomp is a bit over-powered if you have a slow reaction time. Think faster! lol, all I can say for now.

They would be like all the other class cannons in the game that can’t stealth? No other glass cannon can go invis to stomp, removing stealth stomping (which I don’t favor either way, it doesn’t bother me) would bring the thief in line with all of the other glass cannons. You can’t say it would make the class worthless because no other GC can do that and they do fine without it.

Like I said, stealth stomping doesn’t bother me either way, just pointing out that no one else can do this and they are not worthless.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Aeonex.7482:

As a player who has used thief since the start out of Beta. I haven’t used FOTM builds or such with thief, I stuck with it, despite all the changes, like pistol whip, backstab nerf twice, etc. Invisibility has to be one of the most important aspects of thief survivability. Without it, glass cannon thieves are utterly useless. In a fight against a ranger glass cannon who uses a raven, it’s all a matter of them interrupting your heal and they win. Likewise, it’s all about you landing that basilisk to get them down. At the very end, if both a thief were downed, and a ranger. The ranger will ALWAYS win because of their pet. That is why invisibility is absolutely necessary.

However, to ask for a nerf on invisibility while stomping, think about how useless a glass cannon thief would be in team fights. They could down 50 people, but unless they make that kill, it does absolutely nothing for the team. I personally haven’t had any problems with mist form on ele’s. Yes, it does suck from time to time, but in a 1v1, if you get them down first, you’re in the clear unless they get out of your line of sight.

Though honestly, the haste stomp is a bit over-powered if you have a slow reaction time. Think faster! lol, all I can say for now.

They would be like all the other class cannons in the game that can’t stealth? No other glass cannon can go invis to stomp, removing stealth stomping (which I don’t favor either way, it doesn’t bother me) would bring the thief inline with all of the other glass cannons. You can’t say it would make the class worthless because no other GC can do that and they do fine without it.

Like I said, stealth stomping doesn’t bother me either way, just pointing out that no one else can do this and they are not worthless.

It might “bring glass cannon thief back into line with other glass cannons” but it would also severely nerf non-glass cannon thief. Mobility and condition type builds (rather than straight glass burst builds) rely on stealth stomping to be comparable to other non-glass class builds.

everyone have some way how to defend self when stomping someone… you can use stability, blind, invulnerability, stealth, block etc…

Just pop stability?

stability, arcane shield, stealth, aegis, block, blind, teleport

You can still hit thieves when they are stealthed with you single target skills if they are silly enough to stand right in front of you. I’m an ele, I don’t even have mist form on my bar, and I’ve also removed armour of earth, why? cds are too long for my build. Also MS doesn’t count to holding a point and armour of earth is no longer a 15 sec stability.

MrFlump.8725:

Why are only Thieves and Eles mentioned? All classes can get stability and others like engie and mesmers can become invulnerable too, pretty much every class has a way to secure a stomp, not just ele and thief.

This thread is an unnecessary whine by people who aren’t looking at the big picture of the downstate phase, and in many cases the people supporting OP are people who aren’t even aware of all the abilities available to other classes.

Why didn’t the OP edit elixir s into his OP? Doesn’t matter if you play an engie if you are calling out other abilities for invul stomping add your classes on there too.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Oxstar.7643:

I think we can all agree that the entire point of being “downed” is to be able to fight back and have a SLIM chance at surviving.

But thieves and elementalists negate this basis. What I’m getting at is how thieves can finish in stealth and elementalists can pop vapor form to become untouchable. This is an unfair advantage that makes it almost impossible to fight back.

What I plead for, silently (except now) and personally is that activation of any form of stealth or invulnerability should block or interrupt finishers. We should all have a chance to fight back to our last breath, regardless of what class we are.
Who agrees?

My 2 cents.

Since you are/play an engineer you have to be willing to add elixir s into the list as well. Elixir S can perform invulnerability stomps as well. Don’t just make a list including all of the “unfair” invulnerability stomp options out there and leave your classes invul stomp out of it.

You definetly have a point. However, I use Elixir Gun over Elixir S since the heals and combo fields are just too good to pass up. My other two slots are busy. I simply forgot to add it to the equation.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Why didn’t the OP edit elixir s into his OP? Doesn’t matter if you play an engie if you are calling out other abilities for invul stomping add your classes on there too.

PHINE!

TehGFreeman.1534:

Necromancer – Foot in the Grave (3s Stability in DS)

So every class has access to this, some more effective than others.

except for the fact that you cant stomp in ds unless you abuse a mechanic and are left with 2 sec to stomp someone and only if you spec

here it comes

drum roffle

30 points into a tree that gives only real benefits to a melee necromancer

.. wich in turn is pretty much kittened in comparision to a bleed necromancer you are absolutely completely correct..

wow 2 seconds of stability and only if you use your defensive mechanic the tool thats supposed to be what defines necromancers.. and are forced to run around like a kitten for 10 seconds to get 1 measly stomp off.. or not.. 2 seconds.. might just not be long enough.. another cruel joke to a class with no stability from skills whatsoever..

hilarious really..

IMO you already lost to the other person and are in down state, which I feel like it shouldn’t be a second life, and that person then have to use more cooldowns to make you die…. Again…. What’s the problem, don’t get downed to start of with

Necro stability needs a buff imo but every class has access to more or less a ‘safe stomp’, in the case of my thief I usually don’t waste a stealth ability for finishers since I don’t use daggers and use blinds instead, since a blinded opponent WILL miss and anyone can guess where a stealthed thief will be with a little experience. In the case of ele’s mistform in the downed state its possible but difficult to teleport stomp them. Cancel and recast your stomp immediately when you think they will pop mistform and port to them as soon as they drop. This takes practice but once you get it down you can put those pesky DD ele’s that think they are invincible in their place

You know any1 with blind or haste can finish you off regardless right? Doesn’t have to be in vapor form or invis. Your argument is invalid sorry, plz try again.

barti.7685:

TehGFreeman.1534:

Necromancer – Foot in the Grave (3s Stability in DS)

So every class has access to this, some more effective than others.

except for the fact that you cant stomp in ds unless you abuse a mechanic and are left with 2 sec to stomp someone and only if you spec

here it comes

drum roffle

30 points into a tree that gives only real benefits to a melee necromancer

.. wich in turn is pretty much kittened in comparision to a bleed necromancer you are absolutely completely correct..

wow 2 seconds of stability and only if you use your defensive mechanic the tool thats supposed to be what defines necromancers.. and are forced to run around like a kitten for 10 seconds to get 1 measly stomp off.. or not.. 2 seconds.. might just not be long enough.. another cruel joke to a class with no stability from skills whatsoever..

hilarious really..

Necro stability isn’t their enhanced stomp, blind is. I personally don’t use my necro in sPvP, but wouldn’t a Well of Darkness completely negate any attack based escape from a downed player?

As an Engineer, you’re the only class that can almost rez yourself instantly unless you’re packed in a mob full of NPC pets.

1. It’s not instant at all
2. Every class can outdamage the engie rezz on their own (full tank guardian and support ele can’t, but they can knock him out of the aoe hot)
3. rangers can instant rezz themselfes

Blackmoa.3186:

As an Engineer, you’re the only class that can almost rez yourself instantly unless you’re packed in a mob full of NPC pets.

1. It’s not instant at all
2. Every class can outdamage the engie rezz on their own (full tank guardian and support ele can’t, but they can knock him out of the aoe hot)
3. rangers can instant rezz themselfes

I didn’t know about any ranger self-rez, as I haven’t seen it yet in over 1200 matches, but I clarified all your other points. I assumed the word “almost” spoke for itself.

I didn’t know about any ranger self-rez, as I haven’t seen it yet in over 1200 matches, but I clarified all your other points. I assumed the word “almost” spoke for itself.

The elite spirit can be used for a selfrezz if timed correctly.

1st: I’d block your backstabs and the rest of your burst, outheal your ranged offense, then push you back if you got close. Totally unfair – On you.
2nd: Sorry, I beg to disagree. You need to understand that just because you disagree with me doesn’t mean you’re right or more intelligent.
3rd: If you enjoy your life so much, why the heck are you wasting time of it arguing over something that is not even real with a complete stranger?

Seriously, I had hoped you’d be mature enough to just agree to disagree – But if you are so insistent on spending your “awesome life” on THIS then by all means, you STILL got no other ammo than a terrible attitude.

just get rid of downstate in PVP – bam, problem solved.

Also, don’t forget the advantages that thieves and elementalists get when being finished. If you’re, say, a necro, and you’re downed, and the person finishing you pops invulnerability/vaporform/stability/stealth, you’re dead for good, unless your ally does something heroic.
However elementalists can get out of harm’s way no matter what, run away from the fight, go back to the keep, or jump in the water to annoy everyone else. Thieves get one escape, which ok, might escape stability etc, but still isn’t strong.

Dual.8953:

I’d rather see necro, engie, and ranger get a buff to their downed skills. I’d say buff warrior, but they have Vengance.

People are so slow to stomp that some warriors have the time it takes to actually USE vengeance? Crazy. Most every player I’ve ever seen insta-stomps anyone they down with whatever “free-stomp” ability the class has (mist form, stability, stealth, shrinking, etc).

Given the speed at which this thread grew into dozens of posts, I’d say it’s a fairly important issue. I find it can present some interesting choices.

Some professions do inherently have an easier time fitting stomp moves into their build. For example, most of the finishing moves people seem to feel are unfair are those built into weapon sets. From the looks of it, it would seem that the professions that can’t get a finishing move without “giving anything up” for it are mostly choosing to go without. They simply can’t be as effective while their opponent is up if they burn a utility on a finisher. Other professions don’t have to make this choice, and always have a free stomp available.

Not sure there’s a simple solution to this, or that Anet should even try to change it. Just trying to put some intelligent thought here. Too many people saying that because every profession could put a finisher in their build, means it’s automatically balanced.

I’m sorry but this is garbage every class has access to stealth, stability, or invulnerability.

I guess I wasted my time writing the previous post.