Guild Wars 2

Hello

I like the idea from anet but I think its too exaggerated. I would decrease just the cooldown in 25/max 30 sec if you don’t hit the target or just increase the internal CD a little more without any changes.

What do you think?

Cya

RTL cd back to 15 or 20 seconds.

It’s now affected by slows

Distance fixed to 1200

You are welcome

What rerroll said .
I also want to suggest.Rtl having 15 or 20 sec if hits OR if its used outside of combat.
Rtl has 40 sec cd when it doesnt hit and get used in combat.
BOOM disengage fixed gneral mobility not harmed..You can still play the roamer.

RTL’s nerf was a fair and balanced change. You can’t have everything and have it at the same opportunity cost as everyone else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

Ele’s are just going to have to learn to play in a game that’s actually balanced fairly, and not in their favor.

Rely on swiftness.

ensoriki.5789:

Rely on swiftness.

Really… swiftness should be used if you want to move fast. Ride the Lighning: The primary intended use is to move to a target.

Even the skill description says "Ride the lightning to your foe, then strike all nearby foes with an electrical burst. "

and not “move somewhere fast”.

Do they not have “Updraft” which is giving swiftness?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Updraft

Maybe remove the “blowout” and decrease the cd and increase the swiftness time.

Also ele can just use: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/One_with_Air
if they want to be fast.

If they don’t want it because they need trait points and slots for other traits or they don’t want to stay in air attunement that long than they don’t need to be fast.

The class is called “elementalist” not “marathon runner”.

Edit: Or another idea: Make it so the Ele gets knocked down for a few seconds if using Ride the Lighting without target.

If I want to use engineer Jump Shot it always take a bit more time before I can move again and I tried Ride the Lightining and it seems like you can almost move again without delay which seems a bit too fast.

Edit: Or another idea: Make it so the Ele gets knocked down for a few seconds if using Ride the Lighting without target.

Interesting one!

How about making RTL unusable w/o a target in PVP, that way we PVE players can have our 5 seconds back. Sure someone could target a distant enemy player and use it as a disengage, but that would take extreme skill and luck, thus eliminating the problem for 99.9% of all situations.

Steb.2571:

RTL’s nerf was a fair and balanced change. You can’t have everything and have it at the same opportunity cost as everyone else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

Ele’s are just going to have to learn to play in a game that’s actually balanced fairly, and not in their favor.

You’re actually hilarious. You talk about opportunity cost but obviously have no idea about balance since you claim opportunity cost should differ between two skills that are exactly the same, and that that means balance is fair.

Rush. War GS 5. 1200 range, movement can be broken at any point. 20s cd. Affected by soft cc.

Great, so, make chill and cripple affect RtL. Fix the range bug. 20s cd all around. Fixed.

This cripples every build. Not just this bunker they’ve been trying to fix for the past couple months. Now the glassy builds have suddenly lost all their mobility.

Its still 20 seconds if u hit someone. Honestly, lets try it out, eles have been on top for 5 months, it wont kill you to feel what it was like being another class for a bit.

daydream.2938:

Its still 20 seconds if u hit someone. Honestly, lets try it out, eles have been on top for 5 months, it wont kill you to feel what it was like being another class for a bit.

Honestly are you gonna let an ele hit you with rtl knowing how much you take from him if he misses?
Also anet ..when are you gonna balance the other mobility skills like rush,swoop, leap of faith ,PHASE RETREAT and their absurdly low cooldowns..
How can phase retreat has only 10 sec cdHOW
D/D is gonna be the only pure melee setup with the lowest mobility out of every pure melee setup just so rtl keeps his kittening “not affeted by slows” state.
Shame

Greatsword 5 – Rush – it says(according to wiki; haven’t checked myself, I’m not playing a warrior, only using 5 charslots and not playing every class):

“Charge and strike your foe.”

So to me it seems this should be the same as Ride the Lighting. Main intended use to attack and get to a target(and maybe get to someone at low health that is running away from you).

Also he is carrying his heavy armor. This should make him exhausted. And it’s the skill 5… skill with usually the longest cd.

20 seconds really seems a bit low. They also should change this then. At least if he is not using it to target someone(not hitting someone).

If you compare to engineer Jump Shot(Rifle 5) this has range 700 at cd 20… then engineer would also need 1200 range there or even more(it takes some time after landing until you can move again and you need to compensate for this).

But not that they are changing ele I think they should just also change that warrior skill.

Luthan.5236:

textwall

Good joke you got there!

To eles: Don’t want your enemy to easily dodge your RLT? Then don’t initiate a fight with RLT. You know, you are not obligated too, but it seems every ele out there does that…

Pretty sure they the reason they did not make RoTL to be affected by chill/cripple is because you have a 33% duration reduction on all movement conditions ( including immobilize), remove chill on dodge.. as well as a one too many condition removals, a nerf like this would had gone unnoticed. making it pointless.

Asomal.6453:

Luthan.5236:

textwall

Good joke you got there!

To eles: Don’t want your enemy to easily dodge your RLT? Then don’t initiate a fight with RLT. You know, you are not obligated too, but it seems every ele out there does that…

Lol waht??People just told me that rtl should not be used to disengange and now you tell me i shouldnt engage with it?
Are you guys idiots or what?

Luthan.5236:

Greatsword 5 – Rush – it says(according to wiki; haven’t checked myself, I’m not playing a warrior, only using 5 charslots and not playing every class):

“Charge and strike your foe.”

So to me it seems this should be the same as Ride the Lighting. Main intended use to attack and get to a target(and maybe get to someone at low health that is running away from you).

Also he is carrying his heavy armor. This should make him exhausted. And it’s the skill 5… skill with usually the longest cd.

20 seconds really seems a bit low. They also should change this then. At least if he is not using it to target someone(not hitting someone).

If you compare to engineer Jump Shot(Rifle 5) this has range 700 at cd 20… then engineer would also need 1200 range there or even more(it takes some time after landing until you can move again and you need to compensate for this).

But not that they are changing ele I think they should just also change that warrior skill.

Class balance isn’t about making all similar skills the same, it’s about making similar skills equal in power when taken into account with all of the other skills the class has. Every class has a different combination of skills so their skills will obviously have to be adjusted in strength.

RTL needs a fix because, unlike warriors, elementalists can stack boons, remove conditions and heal better. If elementalists gave up boon stacking, condition removal and healing so they were on par with warriors, then sure, RTL could have a lower CD

kostbabis.8791:

Asomal.6453:

Luthan.5236:

textwall

Good joke you got there!

To eles: Don’t want your enemy to easily dodge your RLT? Then don’t initiate a fight with RLT. You know, you are not obligated too, but it seems every ele out there does that…

Lol waht??People just told me that rtl should not be used to disengange and now you tell me i shouldnt engage with it?
Are you guys idiots or what?

You should not engage with it if you want the 20 sec cd. Else it’s easily dodged (unless dodging doesn’t apply the 40 sec cd, we’ll have to wait for the patch to confirm)…

Asomal.6453:

kostbabis.8791:

Asomal.6453:

Luthan.5236:

textwall

Good joke you got there!

To eles: Don’t want your enemy to easily dodge your RLT? Then don’t initiate a fight with RLT. You know, you are not obligated too, but it seems every ele out there does that…

Lol waht??People just told me that rtl should not be used to disengange and now you tell me i shouldnt engage with it?
Are you guys idiots or what?

You should not engage with it if you want the 20 sec cd. Else it’s easily dodged (unless dodging doesn’t apply the 40 sec cd, we’ll have to wait for the patch to confirm)…

So if i want the 20 sec cd i should not engange neither disngange with it??
That just leaves it as using it for extra 1k damage mid fight while you put your self in fear that it ll get dodged and have to spent another 40 sec of wait time..
What will happen is people will just use it as disnengage in fear they waste it and be forced to spent 40 sec or more depending on how you rotate attunements with no escapes unless you pick lightning flash..
Cause yeah..more pigeon holing into cantrips was definately needed.

One of the cool things about RTL, is that it does NOT work like other leap/ escape skills. The fact that is not affected by slows makes it unique, and it fits with its flavor. I prefer the devs to balance RTL around what it is, instead of making it a copy paste of other skills from other professions.

Kharr.5746:

Class balance isn’t about making all similar skills the same, it’s about making similar skills equal in power when taken into account with all of the other skills the class has. Every class has a different combination of skills so their skills will obviously have to be adjusted in strength.

Meanwhile they’re giving Elixir S the same nerf they’re giving Mist Form, yet Engineer bunkers aren’t anywhere near as good as DD Ele bunkers.

(Not saying I don’t agree with you, but this is the sad reality of how the game is being balanced.)

Muppet.6485:

Steb.2571:

RTL’s nerf was a fair and balanced change. You can’t have everything and have it at the same opportunity cost as everyone else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

Ele’s are just going to have to learn to play in a game that’s actually balanced fairly, and not in their favor.

You’re actually hilarious. You talk about opportunity cost but obviously have no idea about balance since you claim opportunity cost should differ between two skills that are exactly the same, and that that means balance is fair.

Rush. War GS 5. 1200 range, movement can be broken at any point. 20s cd. Affected by soft cc.

Great, so, make chill and cripple affect RtL. Fix the range bug. 20s cd all around. Fixed.

This cripples every build. Not just this bunker they’ve been trying to fix for the past couple months. Now the glassy builds have suddenly lost all their mobility.

Adorable, here I thought elementalists had two times the abilities to pull from, thus increasing the opportunity cost of each to balance them equally. Silly me, I must be playing a different game than you where warriors carry 4 weapon sets.

thats not true..20 abilities and many of them are fillers,unreliable while most autoattacks are worthless with little to no damage component.Also cooldowns are twice as long as you can see from all the dagger offhand abilities plus you DO NOT have unlimited access to everything at all times..theres those things called global and individualattunement cooldowns. And of course in s/d rtl is the only movement ability.
If you want to learn more about the ele class ask me to pm you

Luthan.5236:

Greatsword 5 – Rush – it says(according to wiki; haven’t checked myself, I’m not playing a warrior, only using 5 charslots and not playing every class):

“Charge and strike your foe.”

So to me it seems this should be the same as Ride the Lighting. Main intended use to attack and get to a target(and maybe get to someone at low health that is running away from you).

Also he is carrying his heavy armor. This should make him exhausted. And it’s the skill 5… skill with usually the longest cd.

20 seconds really seems a bit low. They also should change this then. At least if he is not using it to target someone(not hitting someone).

If you compare to engineer Jump Shot(Rifle 5) this has range 700 at cd 20… then engineer would also need 1200 range there or even more(it takes some time after landing until you can move again and you need to compensate for this).

But not that they are changing ele I think they should just also change that warrior skill.

To be fair, Rush is affected by movement impairing effects. The class as a whole can’t remove movement impairing effects, it doesn’t have a blink, it can’t heal itself for 3/4 of their health pool without using their heal, and it doesn’t have access to protection.

This is why you can’t make a class by class comparison for individual skills.

Now that said, I do think the nerf is excessive. They should have just made it so RTL was affected by movement impairing effects, removed the heal from cleansing wave, and made frost breath’s heal dependent on actually doing damage.

If they made cone of colds healing depend on amount of damage that would help dps builds and would be good balancing change that promotes build diversity..But you and me wont balance nor control how this game is shaped

Muppet.6485:

Steb.2571:

RTL’s nerf was a fair and balanced change. You can’t have everything and have it at the same opportunity cost as everyone else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

Ele’s are just going to have to learn to play in a game that’s actually balanced fairly, and not in their favor.

You’re actually hilarious. You talk about opportunity cost but obviously have no idea about balance since you claim opportunity cost should differ between two skills that are exactly the same, and that that means balance is fair.

Rush. War GS 5. 1200 range, movement can be broken at any point. 20s cd. Affected by soft cc.

Great, so, make chill and cripple affect RtL. Fix the range bug. 20s cd all around. Fixed.

This cripples every build. Not just this bunker they’ve been trying to fix for the past couple months. Now the glassy builds have suddenly lost all their mobility.

You as an ele also have 20 skills to our ten. It takes 10% of our total skill slots to have that mobility. You only have to give up 5%. It should be less effective then rush, not the other way around like it has been for months.

Steb.2571:

RTL’s nerf was a fair and balanced change. You can’t have everything and have it at the same opportunity cost as everyone else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

Ele’s are just going to have to learn to play in a game that’s actually balanced fairly, and not in their favor.

What? Opportunity cost has nothing to do with this. Did you hear this term without taking an econ course or something?

And also “Fair and balanced” is a term with the connotations exactly opposite of what it suggests, since it’s fox new’s motto – and we know that they’re very well “fair and balanced”

You really didn’t argue anything.

In my opinion the fix on RTL carrying orb was welcome but the 40s cd change should not have been in PVE at all.
Also to above poster, realize that we have quite a bit of CD to each of those skills, that we have to switch attunements, and each of those skills take quite some time to cast as well.

SwickHobo.5096:

Muppet.6485:

Steb.2571:

RTL’s nerf was a fair and balanced change. You can’t have everything and have it at the same opportunity cost as everyone else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

Ele’s are just going to have to learn to play in a game that’s actually balanced fairly, and not in their favor.

You’re actually hilarious. You talk about opportunity cost but obviously have no idea about balance since you claim opportunity cost should differ between two skills that are exactly the same, and that that means balance is fair.

Rush. War GS 5. 1200 range, movement can be broken at any point. 20s cd. Affected by soft cc.

Great, so, make chill and cripple affect RtL. Fix the range bug. 20s cd all around. Fixed.

This cripples every build. Not just this bunker they’ve been trying to fix for the past couple months. Now the glassy builds have suddenly lost all their mobility.

You as an ele also have 20 skills to our ten. It takes 10% of our total skill slots to have that mobility. You only have to give up 5%. It should be less effective then rush, not the other way around like it has been for months.

But many of ours skills have already have long cooldowns and some have additional long cast times as a result of having double the skills. At least with other skills we have multiple of which fulfill similar purposes, so it evens out. But in case of rtl, it’s the only weapon mobility skill, so it having double cd= we half half the mobility skill usage.

Not to mention the 20 skills things is also our class mechanic, which also needs to be taken into consideration (speaking of which, we don’t actually have double the amount of skills because of this. The other classes actually have 12 to 14 skills, and those skills extra tend to be stronger or lower cd than regular ones.)

Honestly, this whole ele/guardians are OP thing wouldn’t be an issue if there were more pvp modes.
…and it’d probably be better to make it harder to bunker than taking away mobility.

ensoriki.5789:

Rely on swiftness.

In WvW you can use rtl, switch weapon to staff and use swiftness, switch back and use rtl.

Works really good when you gotta run back across the entire map.

Ugh, more Ele QQ.

I want to know why Ranger swoop traveling 1100 range on a 12s cooldown is fine (which I don’t even mind)

But eles traveling 1200 range on a 20s cooldown is not. Yes I know it’s 1500 atm. Why not just bump it to 1200 as intended and call it a day? Why FORTY seconds to move around with it as well?

Steb.2571:

Muppet.6485:

Steb.2571:

RTL’s nerf was a fair and balanced change. You can’t have everything and have it at the same opportunity cost as everyone else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

Ele’s are just going to have to learn to play in a game that’s actually balanced fairly, and not in their favor.

You’re actually hilarious. You talk about opportunity cost but obviously have no idea about balance since you claim opportunity cost should differ between two skills that are exactly the same, and that that means balance is fair.

Rush. War GS 5. 1200 range, movement can be broken at any point. 20s cd. Affected by soft cc.

Great, so, make chill and cripple affect RtL. Fix the range bug. 20s cd all around. Fixed.

This cripples every build. Not just this bunker they’ve been trying to fix for the past couple months. Now the glassy builds have suddenly lost all their mobility.

Adorable, here I thought elementalists had two times the abilities to pull from, thus increasing the opportunity cost of each to balance them equally. Silly me, I must be playing a different game than you where warriors carry 4 weapon sets.

So you think it’s justified to completely take away every spec of a S/D ele’s mobility from their primary weapon skills simply because we have some more auto attacks or a blind here or there? Really? This is balance to you? You honestly can 100% say that this is a good idea?

/edit

You as an ele also have 20 skills to our ten. It takes 10% of our total skill slots to have that mobility. You only have to give up 5%. It should be less effective then rush, not the other way around like it has been for months.

20 skills, but in some sets, only one or two mobility skills. Let’s argue D/D. We have Burning Speed and RtL. War GS has WA and Rush. WA and BS have roughly the same effect (longer range/longer cd vs shorter range/shorter cd). Now we get to Rush and RtL. Bring RtL down to 1200 as it should be, make it be affected by soft cc – the two are now at the same cd, the same range and rush has the bonus of more damage and allowing the player to interrupt it whenever they want throughout the cast. RtL once cast, if the ele is immob’d (which good players DO pull off) is the same as being stunned for 2s. I’m fine with that.

Your argument of 10% vs 5% doesn’t fit here because it’s an issue of mobility skills alone, not the other filler. You have Rush. I have RtL. With the above changes RtL is brought into balance, and Rush still has advantages. Does your argument still not seem biased to you?

I feed on your Ele tears.

@luthan

Calm down mate. Eles have RTL, burning speed, updraft and (I know no one likes this) magnetic leap.

Most classes have one opener/closer and use swiftness. Most mobility skills on other classes (like rocket boots) are only as good as burning speed or magnetic leap. D/D Eles get twice the mobility of any other class in the game, a longer cooldown on one skill wont change that. Maybe it’s time to take a minute and check your privilege.

I am an Ele and I think all my fellow Eles crying about RTL is silly. They can fill as many buckets with tears as they want, I prefer using focus :P

The problem with “rush” is it never HITs the target…

I usually just run right past the target and swing… meanwhile RTL is a heatseeking aoe missile!

Zaviel.1245:

I am an Ele and I think all my fellow Eles crying about RTL is silly. They can fill as many buckets with tears as they want, I prefer using focus :P

AND THIS LADIES AND GENTLEMEN

Is a REAL Elementalist.

I bow to you, my good sir.

Take heed, he actually knows how to play rather than cry about something trivial.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Zaviel.1245:

I am an Ele and I think all my fellow Eles crying about RTL is silly. They can fill as many buckets with tears as they want, I prefer using focus :P

AND THIS LADIES AND GENTLEMEN

Is a REAL Elementalist.

I bow to you, my good sir.

Take heed, he actually knows how to play rather than cry about something trivial.

Ofc, I love it when I kitten on my opponents and they don’t fight back. Those are my commendable, REAL opponents and reflect my skills, not the noobs who kill me

Raptured, are you implying he lacks skills? Or that you disagree with my agreement?

The nerfs are far from trivial, and just because one person prefers the focus for god knows why in pvp, doesn’t mean that focuses are viable in pvp. It also doesn’t mean everyone else is incompetent for realizing that offhand dagger is the only actually viable weapon in pvp.

I’m saying you’re agreeing with him because he’s fine with the destruction of the most and only viable build in his class in pvp and that your motivation for doing so is now you have weaker opponents, but you also don’t see how so many direct and indirect nerfs coming at one build at once is excessive and will really ruin the fun of pvping as an ele. Zaviel is not complaining like the other eles right now simply because he prefers the focus, not because he is able to get over something that heavily disadvantages his build. It doesn’t make him better than any others, and doesn’t make others worse than him. Another point is, just because some people got rolled by the disproportionate amount of eles in pvp, doesn’t mean that eles should get nerfed to the ground or that eles were much more OP than hgh engies or other mainstream builds. Take an objective stance – yes, eles were a bit too strong before, but every update was a series of nerfs for the ele and this series of nerfs were too excessive even by the eles’ nerf history.

Wow… more of this QQ about only viable build… Why don’t you learn your class before QQing about RtL? I have been using Staff all day effectively.

You can be effective, just that other classes fulfill your support role better than you can. Don’t get me started on how staff eles can only support.

The reality is, every class wants to be able to have some form of a more solo- type build and this really takes away from them.

And also by your suggestion, it seems you agree that the changes has broken the d/d bunker ele’s viability in spvp. Doesn’t it seem excessive for a single update to do that?

Thing is I could be reveling in the buffs i’m getting in my other classes, but ele is one of the classes I roll and i love all these professions. I don’t roll ele as my main, but seeing ele getting put down every update like this is really pianful and the concerns of the ele community, this time around, are perfectly justifiable.

From what I’ve seen, the class get griefed a lot more than it deserves to be despite it’s strong standing, and ANet simply is acting out this time around to popular opinion than the actual balance status, which really bothers me – because at this rate, once ele becomes neutered, other classes will begin their descent with popular opinion as well, and all we will end up with are nerfed, boring, empty shells of classes that they once were in their former glory. It’s a pretty alarming development alright, seeing thief (last patch) and ele (this) getting nerfed at unreasonable levels simply due to the sway of popular opinion.

Cruserd.9230:

Hello

I like the idea from anet but I think its too exaggerated.

It’isn’t.

/thread

Lol when I heard them talk about this nerf I was like “lol gonna love reading the forums after this.”

But really guys hears what it comes down to. You adapt. If you are underpowered as hell odds are you’ll get a buff… After the may patch since most of that is going to be bug fixes.

But this is Beta 3.0 it’s gonna have its rough patches. (Even if they deny it, this game was not shipped ready to play)

They want to bring a little less to eles mobility, maybe it’s time to try new strategies and open with different combos.

We all knew “hit em fast and hard, and if it fails or are countered get distance, heal up then hit em fast and hard again” was not going to last for ever.

Only the bad players will let this nerf effect them.

luxen.8376:

Edit: Or another idea: Make it so the Ele gets knocked down for a few seconds if using Ride the Lighting without target.

Interesting one!

Yes! It would be very interesting to see how s/d eles do when they use their only mobility skill outside of utilities to get away from an enemy!

If you want to limit a skill from being used in more than one way, you should just nerf the effectiveness in the undesired uses instead of actively punishing them.

Minion of Vey.4398:

I want to know why Ranger swoop traveling 1100 range on a 12s cooldown is fine (which I don’t even mind)

But eles traveling 1200 range on a 20s cooldown is not. Yes I know it’s 1500 atm. Why not just bump it to 1200 as intended and call it a day? Why FORTY seconds to move around with it as well?

That’s easy.

Rangers don’t have protection, flash, stuns, 5 different heals, condition removal, burst, etc.

Now that said, 40 seconds is stupid. Simply changing swoop and rtl to be impacted by movement impairing skills like rush is would have been a better solution.

pot.6805:

Only the bad players will let this nerf effect them.

So all the good players who knew how to engage and disengage with RTL over and over and over are going to remain unaffected?

They don’t need to disengage. They engage, kill and win(or die).

Luthan.5236:

They don’t need to disengage. They engage, kill and win(or die).

In other words, it affects them.

Yes. They will be more usefull now. Doing useful stuff instead of only running around doing nothing. So it’s a good fix.