Guild Wars 2

Tomiyou.3790:

dominik.9721:

it actually is a problem since revenant is able to do the same with the difference that rev is also able to stay in teamfights and 2v2s. thief on the contrary can’t do anything apart from decaping and +1. considering now that thief +1 sucks against certain classes like scrapper and warrior it is pretty obvious that there is a problem.
considering that anet does not care, never did care and considering that pvp is dead anyways – it is kind of irrelevant, tho

And rev has no condi cleanse. Thief is in a good spot and if you think conquest is all about 1v1s and teamfights, you are bad. I’d rather decap enemy points and chip away something like 50-100 points because of it, rather than be able to 1v1.

Who cares if the rev has “no” condi cleanse if he is still 10 times better than thief in any fight where conditions get spammed? And saying that the game is not only about teamfights and 1v1s is as stupid as saying the game is not only about decaps. It seems even more stupid because it shows that you didn’t even read properly – simply because I already said that thief is great at decaping but that’s it.

There is a reason why every team runs revenant and nearly no team runs thief – in 5v5 conquest thief is kitten compared to revenant atm.

but keep trying mate, you look better if you call others bad who are obviously better than you ever will be

dominik.9721:

it is you who is bad if you think so. there is a reason why every team runs revenant and nearly no team runs thief, but ye … game is not about teamfights 1v1s or anything also rev has no condition cleanse blublub

keep trying mate

There is a difference between pro players and normal players. In tournaments they have ele there to keep cleansing conditions and revenant is highly dependant on them. When rev gets his condition side covered, he is a god. In normal games this doesn’t happen in 95% of the games.

Ye so let’s balance the game around those 95% random games filled with crying causals that have not a single clue about anything. If we would do this DH is the first class which gets nerfed.

gg mate

dominik.9721:

Ye so let’s balance the game around those 95% random games filled with crying causals that have not a single clue about anything. If we would do this DH is the first class which gets nerfed.

gg mate

Wow, you a salty teef.
Yes, the game shouldn’t be centered around the 95% of casuals. But let me remind you. Just because the rev is good when pros are playing it, doesn’t mean that it’s op. It is definitely not.
And just because thief doesn’t get to fight in massive teamfights, you don’t see other classes complaining that they don’t have enough mobility. Ele is pigeonholed into healer just as teef is pigeonholed into being a roamer and his goal is to outnumber people.

I don’t main thief and never did. I’m just stating facts which you will notice and agree with once you reached a decent lvl. At this lvl you also will stop to ask about revenant buffs.
pathetic.

dominik.9721:

I don’t main thief and never did. I’m just stating facts which you will notice and agree with once you reached a decent lvl. At this lvl you also will stop to ask about revenant buffs.
pathetic.

Um, sorry but I still disagree with your whole argument. And thief actually does see play in pro league, just look at any of their streams. It’s literally right there.

inb4 you say I’m not at a decent level: I’m a champion shadow, legendary thief, rank 80, who is on the GCL team that is hovering between around #1 and #2, and on another team in the same guild (same people, different name) that is hovering around #4 and #5. I’ve been on two formal PvP teams, this one is for fun.

I can frequently 1v1 and am actually an asset to teamfights because I run a build that supports teamfighting. I am also still the fastest player on the team. If you tell me you can’t teamfight, even by sacrificing mobility, I just have to laugh. Don’t call people pathetic and condescend when you obviously can’t figure it out yourself – Thief’s role is a roamer, and even then, you still can teamfight. (Changing your build around also increases teamfight ability) So I would suggest looking at yourself rather than the class.

Edit: you also said you don’t main thief. That explains a lot as to why you seem to be having trouble.

Thiefs have some teamfight potential. It’s just that the skill-ceiling for thief is so incredibly high compared with all AOE’s and cc running around. That only the incredibly talented player can make it work. It’s also incredibly hard to win 1 v 1’s as your class is almost entirely a class dependent on active play. A thief that wins a 1 v 1 is almost entirely more skilled player then you if he wins.

alchemyst.2165:

dominik.9721:

I don’t main thief and never did. I’m just stating facts which you will notice and agree with once you reached a decent lvl. At this lvl you also will stop to ask about revenant buffs.
pathetic.

Um, sorry but I still disagree with your whole argument. And thief actually does see play in pro league, just look at any of their streams. It’s literally right there.

inb4 you say I’m not at a decent level: I’m a champion shadow, legendary thief, rank 80, who is on the GCL team that is hovering between around #1 and #2, and on another team in the same guild (same people, different name) that is hovering around #4 and #5. I’ve been on two formal PvP teams, this one is for fun.

I can frequently 1v1 and am actually an asset to teamfights because I run a build that supports teamfighting. I am also still the fastest player on the team. If you tell me you can’t teamfight, even by sacrificing mobility, I just have to laugh. Don’t call people pathetic and condescend when you obviously can’t figure it out yourself – Thief’s role is a roamer, and even then, you still can teamfight. (Changing your build around also increases teamfight ability) So I would suggest looking at yourself rather than the class.

Edit: you also said you don’t main thief. That explains a lot as to why you seem to be having trouble.

We nearly won in pl against sindreners team only because of composition, they had defintly the more active and more motivated players – but thief comp.
And sindrener was basically the only thief that showed up in EU pl saying himself that thief is suboptimal because he has no usage apart from decaping and +1.
So don’t talk about the viabitly of thiefs in tournement play if you never have played there. None gives a kitten if you are legendary,rank 80 or champion shadow

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Thiefs have some teamfight potential. It’s just that the skill-ceiling for thief is so incredibly high compared with all AOE’s and cc running around. That only the incredibly talented player can make it work. It’s also incredibly hard to win 1 v 1’s as your class is almost entirely a class dependent on active play. A thief that wins a 1 v 1 is almost entirely more skilled player then you if he wins.

I’ve watched much of this video and Vallun defeated a scrapper multiple times in 1v1:

https://www.twitch.tv/vallunv/v/72310535

He was likely at least Diamond too.

At 48:40 he fights the engi and then again a couple minutes later. It’s inspirational and I’m taking some notes.

@alchemyst.2165: Sind said it himself that he plays thief for fun since they were just playing out leagues and didn’t care about outcome anymore. If he was playing serious he wouldn’t be on thief.

I find it hilarious how people accuse Grim of being salty thief when he actually brings view from other classes. I have played with him and against him, many times, he is a good players and trashtalking him because he has different opinion is kind of silly.

Yes, thief is great roamer, yes thief can help in small fights however in 99% of the time you still should avoid 1v1 and big fights as thief. I would be ok with thief having that role, problem is whole argument of thief sacrificing everything for mobility and supposedly high dmg kind of died when revs were introduced into game – they can do exact same job, just as good with extra huge cherry on top (aka team fights, great 1v1 capability). Then once again, we have druids with 15 sec RTL which allows them effectively camp mid and far at the same time as well as mes port. GL decapping anything there, while having druid pet chomping 5-7k off you every few sec no matter where you go.

Agemnon.4608: vallun won vs engi that didn’t use hammer whole fight….

Cynz.9437:

@alchemyst.2165: Sind said it himself that he plays thief for fun since they were just playing out leagues and didn’t care about outcome anymore. If he was playing serious he wouldn’t be on thief.

I find it hilarious how people accuse Grim of being salty thief when he actually brings view from other classes. I have played with him and against him, many times, he is a good players and trashtalking him because he has different opinion is kind of silly.

Yes, thief is great roamer, yes thief can help in small fights however in 99% of the time you still should avoid 1v1 and big fights as thief. I would be ok with thief having that role, problem is whole argument of thief sacrificing everything for mobility and supposedly high dmg kind of died when revs were introduced into game – they can do exact same job, just as good with extra huge cherry on top (aka team fights, great 1v1 capability). Then once again, we have druids with 15 sec RTL which allows them effectively camp mid and far at the same time as well as mes port. GL decapping anything there, while having druid pet chomping 5-7k off you every few sec no matter where you go.

Agemnon.4608: vallun won vs engi that didn’t use hammer whole fight….

Other people still play thief in pro league. Just because one person doesn’t run it doesn’t mean it’s not viable.

Yes, thief’s role is to decap and roam. That doesn’t mean 1v1s and teamfights aren’t possible, especially if you tweak your build for it. The thing is, you can’t have everything at once at a high functionality. You have to sacrifice. Yet people like the OP want everything at once.

And no, rev can’t do the same job thief can. Its mobility was nerfed, a thief is still much faster than a rev.

Edit: @Dominik.9721: You said that someone decent shouldn’t talk about thief but then when someone lists potential reasons why they’re decent you decide to forget it. And I actually have played in ESL before, a while back. Thanks for the assumptions.

From reddit:

“90% of thief players are trash. Almost no difference between the 10th percentile and the 80th percentile. As soon as you get into like the top 5% of thieves they are kittening annoying as kitten (AKA good). You literally cannot hit them. If you manage to win, you never manage to kill them because they’re off kittening around somewhere else. If you EVER find yourself at less than 20% HP the thief will be there backstabbing you. Doesn’t matter if he was across the map. He just somehow backstabs you. Constant decaps. Like they will literally decap home and then when you blink they’re already decaping far. Like what the kitten.”

Agemnon.4608:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Thiefs have some teamfight potential. It’s just that the skill-ceiling for thief is so incredibly high compared with all AOE’s and cc running around. That only the incredibly talented player can make it work. It’s also incredibly hard to win 1 v 1’s as your class is almost entirely a class dependent on active play. A thief that wins a 1 v 1 is almost entirely more skilled player then you if he wins.

I’ve watched much of this video and Vallun defeated a scrapper multiple times in 1v1:

https://www.twitch.tv/vallunv/v/72310535

He was likely at least Diamond too.

At 48:40 he fights the engi and then again a couple minutes later. It’s inspirational and I’m taking some notes.

But the thing is, how many people are vallun? Or sinderer? Or toker? Yes it’s those good thiefs that can do that. Thiefs still have an incredibly high skill ceiling. infact u are still better off +1 ing then 1 v 1’ing.

Razor.9872:

From reddit:

“90% of thief players are trash. Almost no difference between the 10th percentile and the 80th percentile. As soon as you get into like the top 5% of thieves they are kittening annoying as kitten (AKA good). You literally cannot hit them. If you manage to win, you never manage to kill them because they’re off kittening around somewhere else. If you EVER find yourself at less than 20% HP the thief will be there backstabbing you. Doesn’t matter if he was across the map. He just somehow backstabs you. Constant decaps. Like they will literally decap home and then when you blink they’re already decaping far. Like what the kitten.”

This sums up thiefs in general.

dominik.9721:

I don’t main thief and never did. I’m just stating facts which you will notice and agree with once you reached a decent lvl. At this lvl you also will stop to ask about revenant buffs.
pathetic.

If you don’t play thief, then why all this drama?

I am just going to say this:
How many buffs do you need again?

You have to give up some point of view to understand some classes.
Thieves are not created for team fight, to fight like warriors.
Srsly if you want to stand out in team fight don’t play thieves who need to hide, run, quit and wait for the right moment to strike.

Wow people are dense. Nobody is asking for thief to be the “best” in everything. They are asking for the ability for a thief to at least PARTICIPATE in a fight. And it wouldn’t be as hard or as drastic as you melodramatics make it out to be. Here’s a few TINY tweeks that would make thief playable. Bring back that 1s of stab when coming out of stealth to provide an option for dealing with all the mindless passive CCs. Give a few more options for unblockable, so when you risk your entire hp bar to get just one hit in, it will have a better chance to make it through the perma-block / invuln spam. People are always complaining “thief must be OP it has dodges!” What good are the extra dodges when you basically cannot engage a single competent player on a meta class? Those dodges are meant to be the thiefs defensive COMBAT answer to all the rediculous sustain creep everyone else enjoys. The problem is that while thief has the damage to theoretically deal with thier sustain, they have no means of applying it.

Warhawk.7095:

Wow people are dense. Nobody is asking for thief to be the “best” in everything. They are asking for the ability for a thief to at least PARTICIPATE in a fight. And it wouldn’t be as hard or as drastic as you melodramatics make it out to be. Here’s a few TINY tweeks that would make thief playable. Bring back that 1s of stab when coming out of stealth to provide an option for dealing with all the mindless passive CCs. Give a few more options for unblockable, so when you risk your entire hp bar to get just one hit in, it will have a better chance to make it through the perma-block / invuln spam. People are always complaining “thief must be OP it has dodges!” What good are the extra dodges when you basically cannot engage a single competent player on a meta class? Those dodges are meant to be the thiefs defensive COMBAT answer to all the rediculous sustain creep everyone else enjoys. The problem is that while thief has the damage to theoretically deal with thier sustain, they have no means of applying it.

Ok, and how do you suggest this balancing is done? Buff thief’s vitality? Add unvuln’s?

I can’t think of a single +survivability that wouldn’t break the profession and make it OP.

Razor.9872:

Warhawk.7095:

Wow people are dense. Nobody is asking for thief to be the “best” in everything. They are asking for the ability for a thief to at least PARTICIPATE in a fight. And it wouldn’t be as hard or as drastic as you melodramatics make it out to be. Here’s a few TINY tweeks that would make thief playable. Bring back that 1s of stab when coming out of stealth to provide an option for dealing with all the mindless passive CCs. Give a few more options for unblockable, so when you risk your entire hp bar to get just one hit in, it will have a better chance to make it through the perma-block / invuln spam. People are always complaining “thief must be OP it has dodges!” What good are the extra dodges when you basically cannot engage a single competent player on a meta class? Those dodges are meant to be the thiefs defensive COMBAT answer to all the rediculous sustain creep everyone else enjoys. The problem is that while thief has the damage to theoretically deal with thier sustain, they have no means of applying it.

Ok, and how do you suggest this balancing is done? Buff thief’s vitality? Add unvuln’s?

I can’t think of a single +survivability that wouldn’t break the profession and make it OP.

The best way to balance would be to remove all passive procs from all sources, severely limit the amount of Aoe CC and tone down the condie spamming nature that allows almost passive gameplay, that would cull the OP nature of most of the offending classes in the current meta, then they can adjust from there. But that would require them to sit down and see what the main problems of each class are, and last but not least finally separate balance between PvE and PvP.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Razor.9872:

Warhawk.7095:

Wow people are dense. Nobody is asking for thief to be the “best” in everything. They are asking for the ability for a thief to at least PARTICIPATE in a fight. And it wouldn’t be as hard or as drastic as you melodramatics make it out to be. Here’s a few TINY tweeks that would make thief playable. Bring back that 1s of stab when coming out of stealth to provide an option for dealing with all the mindless passive CCs. Give a few more options for unblockable, so when you risk your entire hp bar to get just one hit in, it will have a better chance to make it through the perma-block / invuln spam. People are always complaining “thief must be OP it has dodges!” What good are the extra dodges when you basically cannot engage a single competent player on a meta class? Those dodges are meant to be the thiefs defensive COMBAT answer to all the rediculous sustain creep everyone else enjoys. The problem is that while thief has the damage to theoretically deal with thier sustain, they have no means of applying it.

Ok, and how do you suggest this balancing is done? Buff thief’s vitality? Add unvuln’s?

I can’t think of a single +survivability that wouldn’t break the profession and make it OP.

The best way to balance would be to remove all passive procs from all sources, severely limit the amount of Aoe CC and tone down the condie spamming nature that allows almost passive gameplay, that would cull the OP nature of most of the offending classes in the current meta, then they can adjust from there. But that would require them to sit down and see what the main problems of each class are, and last but not least finally separate balance between PvE and PvP.

So, you are not quite asking to buff thief, so much as to “nerf” everything else? Just clarifying.

Razor.9872:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Razor.9872:

Warhawk.7095:

Wow people are dense. Nobody is asking for thief to be the “best” in everything. They are asking for the ability for a thief to at least PARTICIPATE in a fight. And it wouldn’t be as hard or as drastic as you melodramatics make it out to be. Here’s a few TINY tweeks that would make thief playable. Bring back that 1s of stab when coming out of stealth to provide an option for dealing with all the mindless passive CCs. Give a few more options for unblockable, so when you risk your entire hp bar to get just one hit in, it will have a better chance to make it through the perma-block / invuln spam. People are always complaining “thief must be OP it has dodges!” What good are the extra dodges when you basically cannot engage a single competent player on a meta class? Those dodges are meant to be the thiefs defensive COMBAT answer to all the rediculous sustain creep everyone else enjoys. The problem is that while thief has the damage to theoretically deal with thier sustain, they have no means of applying it.

Ok, and how do you suggest this balancing is done? Buff thief’s vitality? Add unvuln’s?

I can’t think of a single +survivability that wouldn’t break the profession and make it OP.

The best way to balance would be to remove all passive procs from all sources, severely limit the amount of Aoe CC and tone down the condie spamming nature that allows almost passive gameplay, that would cull the OP nature of most of the offending classes in the current meta, then they can adjust from there. But that would require them to sit down and see what the main problems of each class are, and last but not least finally separate balance between PvE and PvP.

So, you are not quite asking to buff thief, so much as to “nerf” everything else? Just clarifying.

Thieves would be nerfed on some of the builds as well in this scenario, since they have passive procs, condie builds and so on. Passives should never have been implemented in the game to begin with, it promotes less skillful gameplay same with the amount of Aoe CC that every class has, seeming how thieves have to outplay the class and not the actual player shows a lot wrong with the current state of the game, when thieves are told not to engage in 1v1 when they are supposed to be decappers or a glorified pet, well what happens if there is one person sitting on the point that needs to be decapped?

BlaqueFyre.5678:

well what happens if there is one person sitting on the point that needs to be decapped?

Kitten that point-holder up (unless it is a bunker).

Razor.9872:

Warhawk.7095:

Wow people are dense. Nobody is asking for thief to be the “best” in everything. They are asking for the ability for a thief to at least PARTICIPATE in a fight. And it wouldn’t be as hard or as drastic as you melodramatics make it out to be. Here’s a few TINY tweeks that would make thief playable. Bring back that 1s of stab when coming out of stealth to provide an option for dealing with all the mindless passive CCs. Give a few more options for unblockable, so when you risk your entire hp bar to get just one hit in, it will have a better chance to make it through the perma-block / invuln spam. People are always complaining “thief must be OP it has dodges!” What good are the extra dodges when you basically cannot engage a single competent player on a meta class? Those dodges are meant to be the thiefs defensive COMBAT answer to all the rediculous sustain creep everyone else enjoys. The problem is that while thief has the damage to theoretically deal with thier sustain, they have no means of applying it.

Ok, and how do you suggest this balancing is done? Buff thief’s vitality? Add unvuln’s?

I can’t think of a single +survivability that wouldn’t break the profession and make it OP.

Why would you quote and reply to my post without reading it?