Guild Wars 2

I see a lot of topics complaining about condi meta.

most of them are asking to nerf conditions; i agree that conditional builds are very strong right now.

My question is, will this problem could be fixed only nerfing the damage that burn does.

Most of the strongest build right now are using burn as a great option to make damage:

1.- Spirit Rangers
2.- Terrormancers
3.- Tank Guardians
4.- Bomb Engis (not really sure if this is the correct name)
5.- Warrios with SB.

So what do you thing, nerfing he damage that burn deals may be a good option to fix meta?

I think you mean warrior longbow.

Regarding burn, I think that spammable burn with almost 100% uptime alongside other condis is the real issue. If burn was used moderately, it could be ok.

hmm ive never even gotten hurt by a tank guardian let alone a condi engi i mean i guess they didnt know how to play but i wouldnt say burn is there best condi damage for condi engi its basically confusion.. tank guardians can only kill you if you sit in one spot tbh..

burn isnt the main source of the problem The problem is that condis can be reapplied to you just as fast as you remove them. so.. thats basically the general idea we are trying to get anet to change.. because a class like necro and spirit ranger.. its almost like a 60% chance ull win a fight because they can apply conditions on you as fast as you shake them off. then once you run out of removals.. its pretty much a fight for how much you can withstand at this point. till eithier of you die.

Burn isn’t the problem. The problem is access to other damaging conditions while using burning. If you noticed, a burning spec guardian isn’t very viable. Its actually a bad build outside of pve.

Yeah is true if how easy the can apply conditions continuously.

Also that condi builds has a greate health pool and defense because of the amulets.

Is not like power based builds that require power, precision and crit damage to be viable.

That makes u very glassy.

Sorry for my bad english i try my best

Funny how the one class you expect burning from isn’t in that lineup.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Funny how the one class you expect burning from isn’t in that lineup.

Guardians? They are in the line-up. :p

I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of a guardian killing someone with burning though…

Vena.8436:

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Funny how the one class you expect burning from isn’t in that lineup.

Guardians? They are in the line-up. :p

I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of a guardian killing someone with burning though…

Yup its funny how guardians are suppose to be the class that specializes at burning, but they are the worst at it.

In one sotg when the devs mentioned guardians “heavy burning build”. I think most people chuckled.

Im certain anet’s class balance and performance exists on pen and paper only lol.

If Burning is the only condition you have, it’s not so bad.

If you have almost every damaging condition EXCEPT Burning, it’s also not so bad. You can get work done, but the meta doesn’t bend around you.

If you have a reasonable amount of conditions and then get Burning on top of those… well, that’s how we got to where we are today.

Vena.8436:

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Funny how the one class you expect burning from isn’t in that lineup.

Guardians? They are in the line-up. :p

I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of a guardian killing someone with burning though…

Eles

Aza.2105:

Yup its funny how guardians are suppose to be the class that specializes at burning, but they are the worst at it.

Its more a question of up time vs. cost.

For an ele, you need to shift elements and your burning is usually on a decently long cooldown timer allowing for it to be shed without worry. For a guardian, your burn is usually an added bonus to other abilities and effects, and the weapon built on it can pretty much keep it up 100% of the time even through cleansing.

Guardians have burning as second nature, but they have next to no other conditions to support it. This is what we call balance.

Necros… well, that is a mess.

Yeah Guardians are well balanced compared with others.

A problem i see often with the conditional based builds is how powerful AOE skills are.

To me is very easy to just pop an AOE skill like caltrops and see how easy they die trying to capture a really small area full of conditional fields.

Skyhammer is the perfect example of this, small cap areas, walls around them makes professions like mesmers, necros, engis to focus all their potential in a very small area.

This is the reason IMO that people prefers to play open maps than the narrow ones.

but .. but.. Skyhammer rooms doesnt promote kitewars 2-anti meele game , like most ppl used to say 3 months ago :P

Burning has a fairly hard cap on effectiveness. Since it only stacks in duration, it’s a very flat DPS increase: either it is there or it isn’t. Multiple burners don’t do more damage than a single burner. It is balanced in the sense that it is redundant, and can’t truly “overpower” another team by having a crapload of burners.

Hard part is, every class but thief has burn, and every class but thief and necro does burning well. Engineer’s are regarded as near the peak, but the fact is nearly very class can have permanent burning, from mesmers to warriors. Cumulative contribution suffers when two of them come together.

Yes, burning is OP.
Its in power/duration trait-trees, but conditioners use it……..ehm i mean SPAM IT !!!

1) ON-CRIT ?? How do u counter procs!?
Oh and theyre 40% uptime —-→
Engiener , burning class , max. 2 bleeds + poison, has a off-pistol and whole FLAMETHROWER , yet nobody uses it, simce u get enough burn just from ur 10 trait procs —-——→ DESIGN FTW

2) 4seconds is a “weird” zone. U often waste a long cleanse for a 2-3s burn , given reaction/casts.

3) SPAM. To easy to re- apply. Should be more like
-got hit with big long burn (6-10s)
-no cleanse? U die ….. Yes cleanse? Cleanse and ACTUALY buy some TILL NEXT BIG HIT

4) Damage. Again burn is a duration condi and meant for power users. Therefore base dmg should be same, but scalling should be terrible, giving a max between 400-500/dps.

Warriors need the burning.

pot.6805:

Warriors need the burning.

Longbow.

Vena.8436:

pot.6805:

Warriors need the burning.

Longbow.

LOL kitten, that is what I said. I only play my warrior, I know about Longbow. Without burning as it is now, warrior condi builds go from viable in pvp to no longer viable. Laughed that you thought I didn’t know about longbow

So I disagree with a blanket nerf to burning if it effects warriors because it will destroy our only condi build.

pot.6805:

LOL kitten, that is what I said. I only play my warrior, I know about Longbow. Without burning as it is now, warrior condi builds are terrible. WE NEED THE BURNING. So I disagree with a blanket nerf to burning if it effects warriors.

In general I just say that if a class has burning, they should have access to at most one or two other damaging conditions (guardian has zero without runes/sigils). Not all of them (necros) unless it comes with a massive draw back like: Dhuumfire -> Adds burning, all other conditions have -75% condition duration!

The problem is how bleeding stacks in intensity. Once bleeding stacks to about 6 regardless of condi power you are taking tons of damage.

Derps.7421:

The problem is how bleeding stacks in intensity. Once bleeding stacks to about 6 regardless of condi power you are taking tons of damage.

That’s meant to be countered by the fact that, at some point, it was actually supposed to be hard to get a lot of stacks without it getting cleansed.

But currently we have classes kitten out so many conditions, thakittens impossible to keep up with bleeding being buried/hidden behind everything else. Play a match of warriors, guardians, engineers (not HGH-nades), elementalists, and mesmers, and experience this game without (as much) condition spam.

Vena.8436:

kitten s.7421:

The problem is how bleeding stacks in intensity. Once bleeding stacks to about 6 regardless of condi power you are taking tons of damage.

That’s meant to be countered by the fact that, at some point, it was actually supposed to be hard to get a lot of stacks without it getting cleansed.

But currently we have classes kitten out so many conditions, thakittens impossible to keep up with bleeding being buried/hidden behind everything else. Play a match of warriors, guardians, engineers (not HGH-nades), elementalists, and mesmers, and experience this game without (as much) condition spam.

Your right it is countered by cleanse but sadly its very easily applied.

Derps.7421:

Your right it is countered by cleanse but sadly its very easily applied.

Warriors, for example, I’ve never had too much trouble keeping their bleed in line. Obviously you don’t cleanse one stack of it, usually wait till six to ten. The problem is when facing necros, for example, I can’t even get to the bleeding to cleanse it or if I do I’m left on fire + poison + whatever else.

I love matches where necros/spirit rangers don’t exist.

Vena.8436:

kitten s.7421:

Your right it is countered by cleanse but sadly its very easily applied.

Warriors, for example, I’ve never had too much trouble keeping their bleed in line. Obviously you don’t cleanse one stack of it, usually wait till six to ten. The problem is when facing necros, for example, I can’t even get to the bleeding to cleanse it or if I do I’m left on fire + poison + whatever else.

I love matches where necros/spirit rangers don’t exist.

True. The thing is though cleanses have longer cds then the rate bleeding can be stacked until critical mass (aka the point where you are losing so much life your heal won’t cut it). Having an auto attack that applies bleeding every hit is a bit much.

Bleeding is the reason people are being “bursted” by condi specs. Make a condi spec and stack bleeding watch the damage it does at about 5-6 stacks. This people is the reason you are dieing so fast.

Derps.7421:

True. The thing is though cleanses have longer cds then the rate bleeding can be stacked until critical mass (aka the point where you are losing so much life your heal won’t cut it). Having an auto attack that applies bleeding every hit is a bit much.

Well cleansing isn’t supposed to be an IW(AY)IN button against conditions. I’ve seen cleanses as a clock reset not a clock stop, though I agree that certain auto-attacks are a bit too generous in their condition application.

I think this is more that bleed is too powerful without condi damage when it starts to pile up. The base is a bit too powerful and scaling that down while scaling up the condi damage factor should ultimately result in the same peak but lower base to force investment to gain considerable return.

Vena.8436:

kitten s.7421:

True. The thing is though cleanses have longer cds then the rate bleeding can be stacked until critical mass (aka the point where you are losing so much life your heal won’t cut it). Having an auto attack that applies bleeding every hit is a bit much.

Well cleansing isn’t supposed to be an IW(AY)IN button against conditions. I’ve seen cleanses as a clock reset not a clock stop, though I agree that certain auto-attacks are a bit too generous in their condition application.

I think this is more that bleed is too powerful without condi damage when it starts to pile up. The base is a bit too powerful and scaling that down while scaling up the condi damage factor should ultimately result in the same peak but lower base to force investment to gain considerable return.

The best way to show bleeding is the problem.
1. Make a Warrior
2. Get a longbow
3. Use longbow 5 Pin down on a golem
4. Watch damage with condi damage
5. Build for condi damage
6. Shoot golem again.
Bleeding is the issue 5-6 stacks is death

With my thief i use a full condition remove build . . . and as someone said before . . . my problem with burn is that is too much damage in a very short time . . . is hard to clean, if you don’t react fast it takes a lot of HP.

Bleed of course can do more damage when stacked, but it allows you to react.

Right now my biggest problem is against necros, they give me this combo that can kill me from a long range with the first shot and then after that i have to clean all the 5 conditions they apply.

Burn on crit and guardian burn share is just stupid. For such a high hitting condi how are you suposed to avoid it if it’s a passive with no animations… Too bad that doesn’t just go for burn.

What if condition cleanses actually prevented conditions from being applied for 2 or 3 seconds? Would that be too OP?

The problem with Dhuumfire isn’t that giving burn to necro’s is too strong, it’s that it’s a passive proc that has good uptime, but with a short enough duration to pretty much not be counterable, it’s just a flat passive and massive boost to necro condition dmg.

If burn was left to a new torch off hand for Necro as active skills, and traits for it tied to the Death Shroud tree it’d be a different story.

Also making burning easier to cleanse would probably be a buff to burning, since having too many ways to apply it is usually a waste, if it’s balanced around being cleansed often then having all those ways to apply it become useful and it doesn’t really change anything.

The way conditions were put into the game just don’t fit having condition focused dmg builds, they either should’ve been just complimentary, or actually be designed to be used for builds that focus 100% on condition dmg. Things like burn not having any magnitude stacking like bleeds, and there being condition caps and all shows it wasn’t really meant to be any condition dmg focused builds.

Conditions just need to be less passive and more active and have less sustained application but be a bit more bursty.

Compare your average condition spamming build to a Death Blossom build, what’s the difference?

Wouldn’t nerfing burn really hurt the Guardian class in general?

I agree, burn is ruining the game.

The necromancer’s burn has still not been nerfed. They said 2 or 3 update ago that the burn duration will be reduced to 2s instead of 4s… and it did not work. The burn is still OP..