Guild Wars 2

Face.4216:

SobeSoul.6910:

Fact: your gvg guilds quit the game regularly.

Including OP’s guild, because there’s rampant elitism in the scene and they’re too good to muck about with the slightly-lower-skill guilds, which, you know, is always good for competition

Also, this thread getting moved to the PvP forum is just hysterical

That’s not fair and elitism isn’t the attitude any GvGer has towards lower tier guilds. It’s simply that it’s not fun without competition and gamer’s in general don’t and shouldn’t be expected to stick around when it stops being fun. Those guilds and players that quit still love GvG but mainly got frustrated by the lack of support from A.net which caused the current issues.

+ 1 support this post

Yeah now that there will be guild halls again there should be a need to defend them.

Please oh Please bring back gw1 GvG’s.

Run the flag and all.

But 15 v 15 or 20 v 20. The Death Match thing is rather boring.

Jaxom.7310:

x FERGUSON.3046:

+1 Has my support.

Logistically speaking, I think it is sort of unfair for us to ask for everything all at once. As many people have said, Arena Net would have to make sure that they can profit off something like this before they can fully support it.

I think a great way to get the ball rolling would be to add an NPC to the coming Guild Halls which provide guild leaders with the ability to challenge other guilds to a GvG. The size of the fight, ranging from 5v5’s to 20v20’s, could be selected while interacting with the NPC and the fight could take place in an instanced form of the OS (that way no new maps need to be developed). By being able to select the size of the fight, no guilds are excluded from the game mode. Upon accepting a guilds challenge to GvG, guild leaders could invite ‘x’ amount of players to a squad and enter the OS. If Arena Net wished to make money off this game mode, they could simply charge guilds a monthly gem fee to have the NPC present in their guild hall (sort of like how private arenas work now). As long as guilds have the ability to challenge other guilds regardless of their server/tier (and maybe one day their continent) I’m sure it would be a hit.

If the idea became more popular things like spectator mode, new maps and a leaderboard could be added later.

Just my 2 cents.

u r still asking for too much. ur best bet to start w/ is to have a single arena for your 20v20s. at the very best, u can try to get them to make an arena out of obsidian sanctums dueling area, or where ever these fights take place. likely as a custom arena or something

got to think, whats the smallest amount of work devs could do for you to get the most out of it. from what i’m seeing, its something like this.

I think we pretty much said the same thing here. It’s just i had the added bit about adding an NPC and allowing for a challenge system. As far as maps go, I think most GvG’ers would be happy if the devs just copy pasted the OS into an instanced arena where fights could take place. This prevents people from trolling GvG’s, allows for intra-server and inter-tier fights and makes it seem a little more “official.”

+1. Just supporting it would be huge, a tournament would be good but the initial support would be greatly welcomed!

Some points made on why anet should not support gvgs that I would like to address:
1. GvGs are not fun to spectate + 20+ members too big for esports
Gvgs are not fun to spectate is an opinion, I enjoy spectating them. Additionally we do not want esports mode where guilds of 20+ members get invited to a lan event, that’s silly. ALL we want is a map (Obsidian Sanctum) that we can challenge guilds from all servers to fight in a 20v20. That’s it. Leave the “esports” to spvp.
2. GvGs take no skill
Lol. You must have never participated in high level gvgs. Although I can consider the point that Gvgs take less individual skill than spvp the ability to get 20 members working together as a TEAM is a challenge in itself. Additionally all gvg guilds that were good spent hours pouring over all player’s footage to fix individual player’s mistakes to improve an individual’s skill so gvgs do take individual skill.
3. A que system would’t work for 20v20
Again we are not asking for a que system. ALL we are asking is for a map (Obsidian Sanctum) where we can fight guild from all different servers.
4. The community isn’t big enough/the community is wishy-washy
The gvg community has been dying and coming back because of guilds getting fed up with no anet support. With even the tiniest amount of support from anet I am sure that most to all of the gvg community would come back to the game. Additionally the community isn’t big enough? That’s the point of this post. Our UNSUPPORTED game mode gets the same amount of viewers as spvp does on twitch and they pour tons of money into supporting spvp. That seems like the same amount of community interest to me. And who knows with support the gvg community can only grow larger

The point is that anet is wasting its beautiful combat system that works wonders with large scale combat. There is a sizeable community willing to pay anet tons of money for just instancing Obsidain Sanctum to allow us to fight guilds from every server. We are not asking for esports or for anything close to that we just want anet to support a community that has been created in their game.

I would love to see more pvp modes and options but this 20v20 is meh, I was excited until i watched the youtube videos. Its just players running around in circles spamming aoe, pure chaos cant tell wtf is going on

LtDan.3742:

I would love to see more pvp modes and options but this 20v20 is meh, I was excited until i watched the youtube videos. Its just players running around in circles spamming aoe, pure chaos cant tell wtf is going on

Well, that’s exactly what I was saying before: People who have never played it have no idea how it works so for them it seems like a blob fight.

It’s anything but “players running in a circle”, there is a lot of strategy involved.

You can do 15v15 too, but 20 is just more fun.

Yes yes yes. So much yes. Good work fallen.

Haha, you can watch gvgs and tell what it is all about. There’s no great secret what staff eles, power necros, thieves, mesmers, hammer warriors, and guardians do. Nor it is a secret that plopping down a giant kitten of AoE is what you guys do. Think the term pirate ship meta is your code word for long range spam.

Also got rangers, engies, riffle warriors, evis warriors. Depends on what the meta is, but people can always experiment at the expense of being less efficient.

It’s like generalizing that PvP is just cele d/d eles, medi guards, shout warriors, cele engies. GvG by necessity needs to be more structured in terms of comp because everyone needs to try to keep boon uptime.

Anyway, I think we’re wandering into the realm of opinions and a severe case of “you like what I don’t like, and you shouldn’t” (and vice versa).

Just to clear up a few points I have seen regarding GvG in 15v or 20v format.

1. It takes no skill to GvG.
In pvp, the communication between 5 people is less chaotic than in higher number fights. If you think it’s hard to sync up 5 players, just imagine 20. The sync between 20 people is a very hard thing to pull off. Each person has a specific job to do and they need to all play off the other 19 people in the gvg. So less individual skill…sure, maybe. But the teamwork aspect is much more developed and important. Three people wont carry a whole 20 man team to victory.

2. GvGs are no fun to watch.
That’s just personal opinion. If you don’t know all the loops and plays of a gvg it is much less interesting to watch, much like any sport. Maybe you do know and just have no interest, well that’s fine.

3. GvGs are too big for an E-Sport
Maybe they are too big for what we perceive as an “E-Sport” because the cost of Anet to fly 40 people out for a tourny is too high. That’s fine. However, that doesn’t mean that they have to actually do that. Nothing is wrong with them keeping it within the game. I, for one am fine with only in-game recognition for winning. I wouldn’t play if I didn’t think it was fun.

Please keep it constructive guys. Bashing each other can be left to the unofficial forums, where it belongs instead of cluttering a constructive post.

If you think I shouldn’t like GvGs then convince me with evidence.

rgthree.7510:

Some points made on why anet should not support gvgs that I would like to address:
1. GvGs are not fun to spectate + 20+ members too big for esports
Gvgs are not fun to spectate is an opinion, I enjoy spectating them. Additionally we do not want esports mode where guilds of 20+ members get invited to a lan event, that’s silly. ALL we want is a map (Obsidian Sanctum) that we can challenge guilds from all servers to fight in a 20v20. That’s it. Leave the “esports” to spvp.
2. GvGs take no skill
Lol. You must have never participated in high level gvgs. Although I can consider the point that Gvgs take less individual skill than spvp the ability to get 20 members working together as a TEAM is a challenge in itself. Additionally all gvg guilds that were good spent hours pouring over all player’s footage to fix individual player’s mistakes to improve an individual’s skill so gvgs do take individual skill.
3. A que system would’t work for 20v20
Again we are not asking for a que system. ALL we are asking is for a map (Obsidian Sanctum) where we can fight guild from all different servers.
4. The community isn’t big enough/the community is wishy-washy
The gvg community has been dying and coming back because of guilds getting fed up with no anet support. With even the tiniest amount of support from anet I am sure that most to all of the gvg community would come back to the game. Additionally the community isn’t big enough? That’s the point of this post. Our UNSUPPORTED game mode gets the same amount of viewers as spvp does on twitch and they pour tons of money into supporting spvp. That seems like the same amount of community interest to me. And who knows with support the gvg community can only grow larger

The point is that anet is wasting its beautiful combat system that works wonders with large scale combat. There is a sizeable community willing to pay anet tons of money for just instancing Obsidain Sanctum to allow us to fight guilds from every server. We are not asking for esports or for anything close to that we just want anet to support a community that has been created in their game.

So much this.

Morabi.4568:

1. It takes no skill to GvG.
In pvp, the communication between 5 people is less chaotic than in higher number fights. If you think it’s hard to sync up 5 players, just imagine 20. The sync between 20 people is a very hard thing to pull off. Each person has a specific job to do and they need to all play off the other 19 people in the gvg. So less individual skill…sure, maybe. But the teamwork aspect is much more developed and important. Three people wont carry a whole 20 man team to victory.

2. GvGs are no fun to watch.
That’s just personal opinion. If you don’t know all the loops and plays of a gvg it is much less interesting to watch, much like any sport. Maybe you do know and just have no interest, well that’s fine.

3. GvGs are too big for an E-Sport
Maybe they are too big for what we perceive as an “E-Sport” because the cost of Anet to fly 40 people out for a tourny is too high. That’s fine. However, that doesn’t mean that they have to actually do that. Nothing is wrong with them keeping it within the game. I, for one am fine with only in-game recognition for winning. I wouldn’t play if I didn’t think it was fun.

Please keep it constructive guys. Bashing each other can be left to the unofficial forums, where it belongs instead of cluttering a constructive post.

If you think I shouldn’t like GvGs then convince me with evidence.

1) Teamwork in spvp is more important than you give it credit for if you think gvg teamwork is somehow superior. Bad teamwork in spvp can easily cause teamwipes. I don’t think teamwork aspect is greater in one game mode or the other.

2) GvG look like visual gibberish to people. You have to understand that we aren’t saying you can’t decipher some of what is going on if you know what to look for. We are saying it would be the last thing we want to sit down a potential new player to watch and try to explain what’s going on. That’s why it really isn’t an opinion.

3) It doesn’t matter whether you are fine with gvg not being #esports. That’s the issue. If you were an Anet designer or developer under a budget from NCSoft or at least your budget is set because of NCSoft’s relation, you need to develop game modes, maps, and stuff you can show off like Stronghold at Cons. At this time, considering Anet is actually fairly small, there’s zero possibility they could even dump resources into make a few maps for you guys.

It would be nice for you guys to get your own game mode, but Anet has to go in the direction it thinks has the best potential.

SobeSoul.6910:

Morabi.4568:

1. It takes no skill to GvG.
In pvp, the communication between 5 people is less chaotic than in higher number fights. If you think it’s hard to sync up 5 players, just imagine 20. The sync between 20 people is a very hard thing to pull off. Each person has a specific job to do and they need to all play off the other 19 people in the gvg. So less individual skill…sure, maybe. But the teamwork aspect is much more developed and important. Three people wont carry a whole 20 man team to victory.

2. GvGs are no fun to watch.
That’s just personal opinion. If you don’t know all the loops and plays of a gvg it is much less interesting to watch, much like any sport. Maybe you do know and just have no interest, well that’s fine.

3. GvGs are too big for an E-Sport
Maybe they are too big for what we perceive as an “E-Sport” because the cost of Anet to fly 40 people out for a tourny is too high. That’s fine. However, that doesn’t mean that they have to actually do that. Nothing is wrong with them keeping it within the game. I, for one am fine with only in-game recognition for winning. I wouldn’t play if I didn’t think it was fun.

Please keep it constructive guys. Bashing each other can be left to the unofficial forums, where it belongs instead of cluttering a constructive post.

If you think I shouldn’t like GvGs then convince me with evidence.

1) Teamwork in spvp is more important than you give it credit for if you think gvg teamwork is somehow superior. Bad teamwork in spvp can easily cause teamwipes. I don’t think teamwork aspect is greater in one game mode or the other.

2) GvG look like visual gibberish to people. You have to understand that we aren’t saying you can’t decipher some of what is going on if you know what to look for. We are saying it would be the last thing we want to sit down a potential new player to watch and try to explain what’s going on. That’s why it really isn’t an opinion.

3) It doesn’t matter whether you are fine with gvg not being #esports. That’s the issue. If you were an Anet designer or developer under a budget from NCSoft or at least your budget is set because of NCSoft’s relation, you need to develop game modes, maps, and stuff you can show off like Stronghold at Cons. At this time, considering Anet is actually fairly small, there’s zero possibility they could even dump resources into make a few maps for you guys.

It would be nice for you guys to get your own game mode, but Anet has to go in the direction it thinks has the best potential.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

We aren’t here to say that GvG requires more skill than a, b, and c. Simply giving a suggestion to Anet that would potentially bring many players flocking back to the game.

Anet doesn’t have to make a map as you are suggesting, simply copy paste the OS into guild halls and we can get the ball rolling.

Can we please stop arguing about skill caps on GvG vs PvP, it isn’t what this thread is about. Anet doesn’t care about skill caps, they just want something they can get profit out of , which makes total sense.

How hard can it be to implement an instanced OS into guild halls and charge guilds monthly to keep the arena active?

Minimal effort on Anet’s part, potential huge profit to be had. If it gets big enough and people really get into it, Anet can implement more in the future.

Not going to read the thread, and probably going to say what has already been said.

Having 5v5 at the moment when each player has 10+ skills to use at one set time, each doing different things, and keep track of everything going on. Now make that a 10v10 and its a a cluster kitten where anyone who is new has absolutely no idea what is going on and it doesn’t attract new players at all. its counter intuitive to gaining customers.

You are asking for Anet to put money into something that will make even more of a distance between hardcore players and first time viewers of the game.

This is the one reason why conquest will be successful and they will focus on it, it has easily understandable objectives and not much else to explain except people fighting for those points.

Lets not forget a straight up guild fight makes absolutely no sense whatsoever in guild wars, let alone any mmo ever. You would fight to take control of something… conquest.
Which then brings you into the fact that conquest is an actual Guild War where you are fighting for objectives.

Lets also not forget this game is a money revenue and when it stops making money, it will get cut. If they spend money on something that will probably lose them money, they wont do it.

TL;DR

5v5 has enough blobbing for a new player to be bewildered, 10v10 makes them turn off their computer.

No money to be made.

Its seriously just a blob versing another blob which cannot be commentated or made into an esport, and in this day in age esports make the games.

Panites.6798:

Not going to read the thread, and probably going to say what has already been said.

Having 5v5 at the moment when each player has 10+ skills to use at one set time, each doing different things, and keep track of everything going on. Now make that a 10v10 and its a a cluster kitten where anyone who is new has absolutely no idea what is going on and it doesn’t attract new players at all. its counter intuitive to gaining customers.

You are asking for Anet to put money into something that will make even more of a distance between hardcore players and first time viewers of the game.

This is the one reason why conquest will be successful and they will focus on it, it has easily understandable objectives and not much else to explain except people fighting for those points.

Lets not forget a straight up guild fight makes absolutely no sense whatsoever in guild wars, let alone any mmo ever. You would fight to take control of something… conquest.
Which then brings you into the fact that conquest is an actual Guild War where you are fighting for objectives.

Lets also not forget this game is a money revenue and when it stops making money, it will get cut. If they spend money on something that will probably lose them money, they wont do it.

TL;DR

5v5 has enough blobbing for a new player to be bewildered, 10v10 makes them turn off their computer.

No money to be made.

Its seriously just a blob versing another blob which cannot be commentated or made into an esport, and in this day in age esports make the games.

You should probably read the thread. What you have stated has ready been counter argued several times.

As far as blobbing goes, no. 10v10 is anything but Blobbing. Same with 5v5. Go into wvw on a tier 1 server and follow a commander pin. That’s a blob.

As far as not being able to be commentaTed. It can be and it has been done.

Also WE DO NOT WANT ESPORTS. Just a friendly competitive arena to play the game how we most enjoy it. That’s It. Make it instanced. No queues are needed. Most guilds are highly organized that it takes seconds to get the team ready. We just want a place for each to fight with 15s and 20v without interference and it being instanced.

tluv.5821:

You should probably read the thread. What you have stated has ready been counter argued several times.

As far as blobbing goes, no. 10v10 is anything but Blobbing. Same with 5v5. Go into wvw on a tier 1 server and follow a commander pin. That’s a blob.

As far as not being able to be commentaTed. It can be and it has been done.

Also WE DO NOT WANT ESPORTS. Just a friendly competitive arena to play the game how we most enjoy it. That’s It. Make it instanced. No queues are needed. Most guilds are highly organized that it takes seconds to get the team ready. We just want a place for each to fight with 15s and 20v without interference and it being instanced.

Been at and seen GvG fights, its a kitten storm that only those who have played it long enough can understand what is happening. Blobbing. Even in WvW players are grouped as classes and have individual commands.

If you could show me where it has been commentated i would love to watch and hear what is said.

I full heartedly believe there should be an area that guilds can go to and fight it out, instanced. Having say your guilds own courtyard where you can invite guilds into.

Though saying this should RP players also get instanced maps, organised PvP groups get organised match making, hardcore dungeon runners having their own dungeons with a certain player selection program?

It all comes down to money and i would love to see GvG have its own place in the game, but unless you make a gold/gem locked instance so there is a reason for Anet to make it, i dont see it happening.

Bubi.5237:

witcher.3197:

You need too many players for a team. Qs would be dead for 20-22 hours a day, with no matchmaking. Because of the size of the rosters, 99% of the gw2 community would never get to experience it. It’s a bad investment for Anet.

I believe “most of us” are not asking for Qs and matchmaking, but a (better) place to use for it.

Shouldn’t you be satisfied with obsidian sanctum then?

Panites.6798:

Having 5v5 at the moment when each player has 10+ skills to use at one set time, each doing different things, and keep track of everything going on. Now make that a 10v10 and its a a cluster kitten where anyone who is new has absolutely no idea what is going on and it doesn’t attract new players at all. its counter intuitive to gaining customers.

Plenty of MMOs with far more skills and abilities per person have had 10-20 player pvp maps.

If anything, larger scale pvp is more noob friendly because each person doesn’t make up as large of a percent of the team.

witcher.3197:

Shouldn’t you be satisfied with obsidian sanctum then?

Obsidian Sanctum is fine, as a map.

The problem with OS is that it’s not an instance. So, on tiers where GvG guilds tend to be, it’s not always available.

Also, OS doesn’t solve the issue of wanting to do GvG matches against opposing guilds that aren’t in your tier (or that you’re not matched up against in WvW that week), nor does it allow you to do a GvG against a guild from your own WvW server.

If they made OS an instance, that one guild could invite another to, that would solve pretty much what GvG guilds are looking for.

E-sports, rewards, official ranking/queue system, spectating… Those are all tangential.

I don’t think anyone who is interested in GvG’s sees those features as something that is absolutely necessary for Anet to build.

Yet, those arguing against the notion of a GvG mode keep bringing up those points as: too hard to implement, not enough return on investment, etc.

That’s fine. I/we get that. Also, we’re not asking for it.

+1 this anet needs too see this thread and at least talk to9o the players

It would be interesting to see a game mode that was a collage of game modes which provided part time zerg heavy battles which were then forced into smaller battles, 1v1s, 2v2s, cycling through difference scales. It would require a very intricate and thought out map but may also be worth the time making.

Any of you play Mortal Kombat at all? Remember how you and your opponent could fall through the floor and enter a new arena? What if two opposing players from an X vs X situation were selected at random to fall into a room and fight to the death for example. A map like this could get really creative and mix things up

I <3 the naysayers.

A quick flick through their post history shows you a 1 year old ‘vet’ or a recently turned WvW (most likely never tried GvG) player.

Basically those that have no insight into what GvG actually is, but have an opinion none the less.

:)

+1

OMG, imagine if GW2 had wars amongst guilds. Holy kitten!

The fail of meaningful PvP in this game is staggering in its scope.

Xillllix.3485:

LtDan.3742:

I would love to see more pvp modes and options but this 20v20 is meh, I was excited until i watched the youtube videos. Its just players running around in circles spamming aoe, pure chaos cant tell wtf is going on

Well, that’s exactly what I was saying before: People who have never played it have no idea how it works so for them it seems like a blob fight.

It’s anything but “players running in a circle”, there is a lot of strategy involved.

You can do 15v15 too, but 20 is just more fun.

Fun. That’s really the point of gaming isn’kitten There is no easy way to monetize fun though without sacrificing some of it. Whatever happened to the notion that if you make something as fun as you possibly can and distill it to its purest possible form and keep the bean counters away from it, that people will want to support your game?

i really think we could start to get some teams started up and get some competition going but its just too hard to start teams and keep them in this game. We need to put in some team making systems so ppl can have a chance to create and keep teams going.

wow did it perfectly they had it so you needed a team to play and if you left that team you joined then you lost your rank.

Also why is anet so scared of showing a players skill in some way. Its extremely difficult finding good ppl to play with cause its almost impossible to tell unless u try them out alot of games or they can steam their gameplay both are kinda anoying to do

Bumping this because I want a reply from Arenanet. I personally think this suggestion is great and should be reviewed further with the community so we can come to a proper solidified plan. The word on the street is that a lot of guilds will be coming back with the Heart of Thorns expansion, this is THE opportunity to do something right for the guilds that enjoy big scale PvP. The same players that have been playing your game for 3 years creating a brand new game mode, anxiously hoping that you will hear their call and not turn a deaf ear to what they have to say.

It has been said before in this thread, your combat system is amazing for this type of thing. Don’t let it go to waste. Some of the suggestions in this thread are great. The perfect opportunity to ‘’Set a foundation’’ as you would like to call it. If this doesn’t happen then I fear for the competitive scene of WvW, because there will be new games on the horizon and the people WILL leave.

I read through this post and I think something that many ppl can relate to was not mentioned yet…

Many might say that number of viewers on GvG twitch is not completely accurate, that there are ppl who just watch it and are not interested in GvG at all…

I am here to tell you it work both ways… Most of GvGs take place in primetime which means people who are active in WvW/GvG are most likely raiding at the time GvGs take place which makes it bit difficult for ppl to watch them live…

I am WvW focused player and have been in WvW guilds for 2 years now and I can tell you that there was ALWAYS a guy who had a spare screen where he had the twitch live stream on and was commentating/telling us the score (who won the round etc) either on TS or on guild/map chat….

Hence while the number of actual live viewers might be a bit low I assure you there are massive amounts of ppl interested in those fights who are getting second-hand information through their guild and friends… I have been in different communities on different servers and it was always like this… people are just too busy in primetime to watch the match but trust me, they care and are interested….

Jon.5271:

Bumping this because I want a reply from Arenanet. I personally think this suggestion is great and should be reviewed further with the community so we can come to a proper solidified plan. The word on the street is that a lot of guilds will be coming back with the Heart of Thorns expansion, this is THE opportunity to do something right for the guilds that enjoy big scale PvP. The same players that have been playing your game for 3 years creating a brand new game mode, anxiously hoping that you will hear their call and not turn a deaf ear to what they have to say.

It has been said before in this thread, your combat system is amazing for this type of thing. Don’t let it go to waste. Some of the suggestions in this thread are great. The perfect opportunity to ‘’Set a foundation’’ as you would like to call it. If this doesn’t happen then I fear for the competitive scene of WvW, because there will be new games on the horizon and the people WILL leave.

Colin already stated Anet’s position.

He said it’s complicated because GvG has baggage. Honestly I feel the fact that this thread hasn’t been locked yet to be a sign that Anet’s position may be gradually changing.

Makes no sense to me why people who don’t support 15v15 or 20v20 are even responding in this negatively. It wouldn’t even affect you guys. If you don’t like it don’t play it. No one in the GvG community is asking for your opinion as to why you don’t like GvG. We are only here to try to pitch to anet why they should give us SOMETHING after all this time. sPvP has been supported since launch, and still doesn’t get a substantial amount of viewers even when it’s “esports.” Maybe it’s time that anet wants to give some attention to a different community because so many people clearly enjoy playing that game mode. When I first watched PvP I had no idea what was going on, just like when you first watch GvG.

“At this time we have no plans for it……” or something along those lines

http://www.twitch.tv/reyana_atac/c/5997437

Believe this is the stream where it occurred. Can’t watch it all at the time to find the time.

Thanks mark, the community certainly appreciates this and hopefully you guys take interest in this this thread.

The best part about helping out the GvG community in this game is that we have been given so little for so long, that we have learned to make a lot out of a little. Hopefully with the new revenues coming in from HoT you can devote some resources into creating a game mode that will take full advantage of the best combat system in MMOs.

I probably don’t speak for most of the community. I never do.

I’m fairly certain we know that the GvGs that are currently happening are not going to be the same as whatever Anet implements. I’m not sure about a lot of the rest of us, but I’d be satisfied with some kind of larger-scale combat, perhaps with objectives, although not overly focused on those objectives.

A lot of GvGers were excited about stronghold because it offered some hope, but finding out that it would be 5v5, mixed in with the other tPvP maps and easy to win if you abuse CCs, we lost a lot of hope.

Some others have suggested simply implementing a way for guilds to decide how many people vs how many people. That’s cool. I’d even be happy with 10v10. It’s going to be different than the 20v20 tdm that we currently have going. THAT’S FINE, we can keep diddling ourselves in the OS with those. But maybe give pvp some opportunity to have structured 10v10s and 15v15s. I understand that it would be insane to implement many rounds of a tbm that sometimes is over in seconds, but we want larger scale fights.

Conquest and Stronghold were good ideas. However, Anet has been so focused on forcing them into a 5v5 situation that we don’t have the chance to explore 10v10 and 15v15 (and 20v20, which is a long shot because few guilds can field that). In GW1, the go-to for gw2 gvg naysayers, it was 8v8 and there were no points to cap and hold aside from a few buffs at the center. That’s cool. We’re cool with that. GW2 combat is based off of 5s and 10s, so give us 10s and maybe 15s. Give us a map large enough actually use tactics AND large scale fights. We don’t need to be facing each other from 2500 range and ramming into each other like sweaty teenagers after prom. Some of us want that, some of us just want something more than 5v5. I enjoy the current gvgs, I enjoy current pvp (although i want more variety than having to bunker points and/or cc-lock people in stronghold). I want more options.

Or do what Aldix (Ferguson.numbers) said and allow us to challenge other guilds to an instanced OS. I know a lot of people that would return to the game/play the game more because of these options. Even 10v10. Please.

Thanks for the re-open, hopefully can start brainstorming on possible solutions again. Frankly I’ll be happy if they changed up the central area in EotM to be similar to the arena in Obsidian Sanctum. I think that would go a long way for a of players.

I don’t understand the opposition of giving gvgs a map in heart of the mists. They aren’t asking for queue, leaderboard, or even rewards. To me it seems like anet can move OS into heart of the mists so that people from different server will end up in different instances, and they can go from there.

I am one of those people that think gvg is just about blobbing, but if they’d be happy with having OS moved into heart of the mists and set up their own league, I’m all for it. As long as they don’t interfere with pvp system, I’d support this 100%.

Thanks Mark, that’s really cool of you to re-open the thread for further discussion. A rare occasion, maybe it’s a sign…

nightblood.7910:

Yeah now that there will be guild halls again there should be a need to defend them.

Possibility to defend them? Perhaps – i see nothing wrong in it. A need to defend them? Absolutely not.

+1
I personally dont like large scale pvp fights like 20vs20 because the individual player doesnt influence the fight as much. But the gvg community really deservs a game mode for them even if its just a custom arena map which supports 10-20 vs 10-20. On the other hand if they implement a large scale pvp mode i´d like to see some incentives to split up in different groups for example something like stronghold but just way bigger with 3 lanes so that the zerg splits in 3 groups. What do you guys think about this idea?

xandi.4765:

+1
I personally dont like large scale pvp fights like 20vs20 because the individual player doesnt influence the fight as much. But the gvg community really deservs a game mode for them even if its just a custom arena map which supports 10-20 vs 10-20. On the other hand if they implement a large scale pvp mode i´d like to see some incentives to split up in different groups for example something like stronghold but just way bigger with 3 lanes so that the zerg splits in 3 groups. What do you guys think about this idea?

The individual player doesnt influence the fight in the short run, but in the long run each skill of the player affects the gameplay and the final result.

Main Idea of GvG is basically deathmatch fights. No NPC adds, no points to capture, no lanes to spilit, no lords to kill.

An instanced OS colosseum available to all guilds no matter the server to fight with each other. + any support anet wants to provide on that (like ranking and rewards)

chuuuuucky.8532:

Only fear i have is…WvW could suffer a lot.
There are enough GvG guilds out there which are roeming the borderlands searching for fights or waiting for the enemy. On smaller servers they make all the difference and on larger server they are often highly invested in organizing guilds, commanders and coverage.
If they have less incentive to go onto the WvW maps because they can instead have one fight after another in GvG this could be really bad for WvW.

Nirvana.8659:

The only thing i came up with ,would be allow that GvG guilds to be able to fight other guilds of other Tiers / Server “on demand” .

For example if guild “X” in EU Tier 1 wants to fight guild “Y” in EU Tier 3 there should be a mechanic to allow that 2 guilds fight eachother without have to transfer the whole guild to another Server only for that GvG.

I heard there will be Halls with the expansion….
It would be really nice if , for example , that Halls should be able to Host an Arena like the one in Obsidian, where a Guild can invite another Guild from another Server and be able to fight them without have to completely transfer to another server.
Or again , allow Custom Arena to be played as 20vs20 , and provide one map a little bigger than the others we have.
Make them for real “Custom” and for real “Arenas”.

My fear is shared with the first quoted user. Anet are already spending huge resources for an innovative WvW map and here we are, asking for another. If we were to receive such a map, what would become of WvW’s population driven maps?
That said.

I think the second quote is hands down the best way to handle said scenario. Make a 20v20 “Custom Arena” within the Guild Halls (simply a custom map the guild themselves bought) that allows your Guild to exclusively fight other Guilds. Winning gives recognition, exclusive Guild Hall skins, rewards, finishers, armor skins, etc etc.

Map: (circler) Arena TDM big enough for 20v20?

The reason I think that’ll work is because it takes time to arrange such a GvG battle. We’re looking at a once a week 20v20 matchup between Guilds. Meanwhile, WvW will continue to strive throughout the week.

I still rather have a 2v2 or 3v3 unranked gamemode but hey, there isn’t a 7 page discussion about it ;)

+1. I’m here to give support

Jinn.7948:

Honestly I feel the fact that this thread hasn’t been locked yet to be a sign that Anet’s position may be gradually changing.

“Stop exploiting my game mode!”

-locked-

Over a million views later.

-unlocked-

Thanks for re-opening the thread.

Saiyan.1704:

chuuuuucky.8532:

Only fear i have is…WvW could suffer a lot.
There are enough GvG guilds out there which are roeming the borderlands searching for fights or waiting for the enemy. On smaller servers they make all the difference and on larger server they are often highly invested in organizing guilds, commanders and coverage.
If they have less incentive to go onto the WvW maps because they can instead have one fight after another in GvG this could be really bad for WvW.

My fear is shared with the first quoted user. Anet are already spending huge resources for an innovative WvW map and here we are, asking for another. If we were to receive such a map, what would become of WvW’s population driven maps?

I think gvg on demand would actually help wvw’s population. If not increase it at least sustain it.

There’s only so much zerg busting you can do till you get bored and leave the game. There’s quite a lot of wvw only players/guilds and there’s really not much they can do. This would give them an option to once a while do something else. Compare strength with enemy with equal numbers. And bear in mind gvg takes usually only 30-60 minutes and two per day (even per week) are not really that common. You need to prepare for the guild and it’s more stressful than just wvwing. Once you fight all possible guilds you start fighting only the ones with comparable level (stompfest or massacre are not really fun). And you don’t wont to fight them every day. You need to to practise and plan your strategies. And other players from guild wants to play as well and not only watch your guild members gvging. Not every day all 20 ppl are online and so on…

The other thing is maybe more pve guilds start doing gvg (there’s not a lot of stuff a guild of 10-20+ ppl can do together) and eventually start going organized in wvw.

Exodus.6501:

I came here to post my support

Having read the thread, it really comes down to the players wanting the support from Anet to have a greater number of options in this game to appeal to all types of users in conjunction to the already existing endeavors. What we are asking is for you to recognise this group of people that partake in gvg style death match fights, for fun, regularly, across all tiers of the game as a subsection of WvW.

its kinda sad it takes a forum post for them to recognize it

Thanks for re-opening the thread, moderators.

Also, I’d like to point out that GvGs don’t need to be 20v20. 20v20 creates a pretty large barrier-to-entry for a lot of guilds, not only in recruiting enough people to have a reasonable composition on any given night, but also recruiting enough GOOD players to put into that roster or trying to train a large group of people to all be able to compete. The skillcap in GvGs has definitely risen dramatically over the past year with the meta shifts and being a decent player doesn’t always cut it, and I believe this is especially prevalent in a 20v20 GvG.

One of the main reasons I feel like guilds still do 20v20’s is because they’re still following in the footsteps of old guilds and as guilds continue to make the demand of “we won’t do less than 20’s,” it’s only continuing to force this mindset that 20v20 is the only size that matters for GvG.

Plus, with the average player skill increasing over the years and the mindsets of players changing from spamming AoEs to focusing single targets, the concentration of damage with 20 players compared to something the size of 15 is a big difference.

I think a 20v20 option is fine, and there are valid reasons to prefer it to 15v15 and especially 10v10. Playstyles are very different between the three roster sizes, and preferring one to another is alright.

That said, I think everyone should be open-minded about smaller roster sizes, possibly even 8v8 or 12v12 to give other examples, if you are going to expect a positive response, or possibly even a response to this at all.

That’s my two cents. Getting support for the gamemode is more important to me than the size of it, so whether it’s 20v20, 12v12, 15v15, or whatever isn’t as important to me as just HAVING the official support, and I encourage everyone to approach this with a similar mindset.