Guild Wars 2

Hey guys-

So first off, I haven’t done a ton of PvP (just about to hit rank 50), but I do my best to be very aware of good strategies, etc. Feel free to laugh at me for being noob.

I’ve had a lot of arguments lately with teammates about when to kill the bosses on Forest. Last night, this extended to a guild member who has done significantly more PvP than I have. I don’t like arguing with guild members, especially if I might be wrong. :-)

My thoughts: it’s best to skip bosses at the beginning except if you have a Thief/another ultra mobile class who might try to steal the enemy boss. I know some teams to a heavy cross to far (2-3 players), I usually just advocate for 1 steal/far, 3 mid, 1 home, with somebody watching to peel for home if they send 2+ across. During the match, I’ll mostly skip bosses unless we wipe them all in a team fight, then I might go for their boss on the way to their spawn.

Is this a bad strategy? I keep having people laugh at me for being an idiot while reinforcing how important it is to kill bosses immediately. In a match last night against a team with two thieves, I had a teammate ping and circle the boss like he was having a seizure. I just ignored it and tried to keep up my rotations, but invariably, somebody would go for the boss… and it was stolen pretty much every time by a thief.

I also swung by the map guide on QQmore which mentions skipping bosses.

So… thoughts? When is it appropriate to kill bosses? Thanks in advance. :-)

I haven’t pvp’d anywhere close to a lot of people on this forum but I’ve found that if you send 1 to cap home and it doesn’t get pushed by the enemy team then that person can quick kill the beast before heading to mid. Capping home and mid though at the start seems to greatly outweigh slaying any beasts. I like the 1 to home/beast 4 to mid option when solo or duo queuing because it’s simple to organize and your chances of taking mid are that much better.

Skip beast. if someone is going far, or watching for crossers are there are none, then that person can make sure enemy is not fighting their beast (and try to steal if they are).

but as part of your opening strategy, skip it, unless maybe if you’re like a LB ranger that can kill it in a few seconds safely. i mean literally a few seconds, not “I think I am pretty fast”

I agree with you timmyf, and this is often the opening I use on this map with my (rather inexperienced) team when I play thief. Then during the game I only do a boss if I see the enemy team is killing it and I want to steal it. Or if it’s a really close game and I want to get these lasts 25-50 points. In the Go4GW2 cup, I noticed the teams only kill the bosses in the very end of the match, if they are behind in the score.

Yes, more often than not, soloq heroes like to ping dozens of times on the bosses. It’s a really bad behavior, since the new players feel like it’s the correct thing to do. It happened to me when I was a cute little dolyak. Especially when you lost the mid point, you shouldn’t go for the bosses, you should decap a point. That’s my opinion at least, I’m by no mean a top player.

The beasts are secondary mechanics for a reason. You should only kill boss if/ when it will not hurt you in anyway to do so. Capping the points is far more superior.
1:Skip boss at start all together. The person capping home (if no one shows up to contest) should be pushing mid or far depending on the situation. You want to outnumber the fights as much as possible. If you go beast after capping home and they don’t, you now have a 5v4 on mid and your team wipes. It will take you longer than a minute to get the point back (if successful) and loose more than the 25 points you got from beast.
2: If you are wiping the floor you can kill beast. If you find your team is bored for a few minutes because the match is too easy, you can kill beasts.
3: If the match is nearing an end and you need points asap to catch up, you can kill beasts. This would be a last ditch effort to try to gain 25-50 points and then storm a point and take it for a 2 cap.

In general, do not kill at start or anytime during the match really. Including run time to and from beast, you will waste anywhere from 30-60 seconds. Doesn’t sound like much? Well you are leaving your team 4v5 somewhere else on the map and 30 seconds is plenty of time to kill 1 person when you have more players in the fight. By the time you get to the fight 1 is dead, you are still outnumbered and you will continue dying. All situations depend on when and if or if at all, so no one can be really exact.

Your best option is to send 1 far at start instead that is very strong at 1v1. This would be ele or engi. If you can win the fight and take the point or stall the cap for 2 minutes + then you did good. Man on home should then push mid after start cap. You can also send 2 far, 2 mid and your fastest player on home. Home can cap and be at mid almost same time as the other 2. Guys at far can see what their up against and choose the best 1v1 then the other push mid; or kill in 10 seconds then 1 push mid.

Many options and strategies, but none involve the beast

Never. Mobs don’t belong in PVP.

kodesh.2851:

Never. Mobs don’t belong in PVP.

lol there are NPCs in like…. almost every single competitive game.

Solstice.1097:

kodesh.2851:

Never. Mobs don’t belong in PVP.

lol there are NPCs in like…. almost every single competitive game.

I assume you’re referring to DoTA/LoL style games. Different beast. Anet needs to stop taking queues from that genre.

kodesh.2851:

Solstice.1097:

kodesh.2851:

Never. Mobs don’t belong in PVP.

lol there are NPCs in like…. almost every single competitive game.

I assume you’re referring to DoTA/LoL style games. Different beast. Anet needs to stop taking queues from that genre.

I don’t necessarily want to get into a long conversation about map mechanics. I’m more interested in the Play To Win answer.

Given these mechanics (which are unchangeable), what strategy gives the highest likelihood of victory?

timmyf.1490:

kodesh.2851:

Solstice.1097:

kodesh.2851:

Never. Mobs don’t belong in PVP.

lol there are NPCs in like…. almost every single competitive game.

I assume you’re referring to DoTA/LoL style games. Different beast. Anet needs to stop taking queues from that genre.

I don’t necessarily want to get into a long conversation about map mechanics. I’m more interested in the Play To Win answer.

Given these mechanics (which are unchangeable), what strategy gives the highest likelihood of victory?

just ignore the boss except when

A) you’re behind or extremely close game nearing the end of the match
B) enemy engaged it first and you’re harassing/stealing it from them
C) it’s safe+convenient to do so, AND the nodes do not need help for some reason (for example after you wiped their team, but even then it’s usually best to camp their respawns rather than kill boss).

In a rare case a coordinated team may decide 2 of them are going to just nab it on the way to mid because they are like a LB ranger and mesmer or some combo that can basically insta-kill it. that’s fine if you spend less than 5 seconds on it and continue to where you were going, but most builds can’t do that.

So it sounds like I had the right idea. Has anybody found a quick way to explain this to teammates that works? Or am I just going to have to keep watching Warriors and Guardians try to solo it only to have it stolen away?

Edit: I shouldn’t blame all Guardians. Medi Guard seems to be able to burn it down fast enough. :-)

timmyf.1490:

So it sounds like I had the right idea. Has anybody found a quick way to explain this to teammates that works? Or am I just going to have to keep watching Warriors and Guardians try to solo it only to have it stolen away?

Edit: I shouldn’t blame all Guardians. Medi Guard seems to be able to burn it down fast enough. :-)

Nope. Just simply state “Please don’t go for beasts, the points are more important”. They still won’t listen but some might. If it gets stolen then you have more of a leg to stand on. Say, “Please don’t go for beast, their thief is just going to steal it every time”. That still most likely won’t work. Newer players and pugs are going to do it regardless because they think wasting 60 seconds on 25 points is worth it, when it’s not.

timmyf.1490:

Edit: I shouldn’t blame all Guardians. Medi Guard seems to be able to burn it down fast enough. :-)

except i’ve seen them get 1-shot by svanir.

Think of it this way too. I have seen it happen so many times. My team goes 1 home 4 mid. Enemy goes 4 mid 1 home as well. Our home point man then goes mid, your player then goes boss. It snowballs due to being outnumbered and your team looses the point. Or as our guy comes off home he sees 1 of your team dying at mid (which will then shortly be a 4v3), he then pushes far instead and while your 5th is either still killing boss or rounding the backside to mid, you just lost home. mid is then still a 4v4 and your guy that died at mid is on a 1v1 at your home point that is either capped in our favor or still neut. Either way you now have no caps. Beast killers always run around the back to mid and is a free decap on that point if someone is pushing it.

Like I said though. Many situations, scenarios and strategies. Beast is just never in your favor. Should be used to catch up if needed at the end and that is it. If it is a close game, you just got wiped and the boss kills will win it. Charge in.

GhOst.4019:

The beasts are secondary mechanics for a reason. You should only kill boss if/ when it will not hurt you in anyway to do so. Capping the points is far more superior.
1:Skip boss at start all together. The person capping home (if no one shows up to contest) should be pushing mid or far depending on the situation. You want to outnumber the fights as much as possible. If you go beast after capping home and they don’t, you now have a 5v4 on mid and your team wipes. It will take you longer than a minute to get the point back (if successful) and loose more than the 25 points you got from beast.
2: If you are wiping the floor you can kill beast. If you find your team is bored for a few minutes because the match is too easy, you can kill beasts.
3: If the match is nearing an end and you need points asap to catch up, you can kill beasts. This would be a last ditch effort to try to gain 25-50 points and then storm a point and take it for a 2 cap.

In general, do not kill at start or anytime during the match really. Including run time to and from beast, you will waste anywhere from 30-60 seconds. Doesn’t sound like much? Well you are leaving your team 4v5 somewhere else on the map and 30 seconds is plenty of time to kill 1 person when you have more players in the fight. By the time you get to the fight 1 is dead, you are still outnumbered and you will continue dying. All situations depend on when and if or if at all, so no one can be really exact.

Your best option is to send 1 far at start instead that is very strong at 1v1. This would be ele or engi. If you can win the fight and take the point or stall the cap for 2 minutes + then you did good. Man on home should then push mid after start cap. You can also send 2 far, 2 mid and your fastest player on home. Home can cap and be at mid almost same time as the other 2. Guys at far can see what their up against and choose the best 1v1 then the other push mid; or kill in 10 seconds then 1 push mid.

Many options and strategies, but none involve the beast

This is a gold star post. A lot of it is commons sense that you should be able to learn through experience but sadly many people never figure any of this out. Like the part about losing out on the middle and losing more points due to ticks then the 25 you gain from killing the bosses. That doesn’t occur to a lot of people it’s kind of scary really.

on my ranger i will go for beasts cause i can kill them within a few seconds
on my engi i will lay down a small burst in the beginning but wont stay to finish it, most times you have 2-3 people off the bat kill the beast. so its literally 2-3 seconds for 25 points.
after the beginning of the match, if we have 2 of 3 points and are superior in winning the fights i will take them if im passing by. but i dont go out of my way to get them. i will also try to snipe if the opportunity presents itself.
if we are near the end and game is tight, i will kill them but only if it doesnt potential screw us over.
basically its situational but shouldnt be a focus.

Look at it this way. A capped point is worth more than a boss after 13 seconds!

Sube Dai.8496:

Look at it this way. A capped point is worth more than a boss after 13 seconds!

50*

Simply put, don’t go mob at start. That would leave whoever went mid outnumbered or no one at all giving the enemy a free cap. Also you take the risk that a thief (who usually push far for this very reason) will promptly steal the kill hindering that amount of time useless which could then eventually lead to your team getting snowballed and 3 capped.

The poeple should practise to kill the creeps in the mist before they try it in ranked games. Yesterday I had a mesmer. He tried to kill svanir after he took close. It tooks so long that an opponent decaped close, capped it and stole the kill. This costs us ~ 75 points or even more. Please practise it, or leave them alone.

The things like bosses and lords and stuff are called “secondary mechanic”, it’s not the primary thing you should focus on. This is conquest after all.
That said, there are situations where it is a good idea going for them, securing wins and making clutch plays.
Chieftain and Svanir have low armor and health, they can killed very fast by raw dps. If your own teamcomp relies on 2 dps classes (say thief and mesmer) and has 3 bunkers (cele or whatever) and the enemy team has only bunkers, it can be a good idea to kill the own boss in a few secons at the start because your bunkers can outlast this time the dps guys are missing in the teamfight and the low stealability of the enemy team.
But when the enemy team has also dps classes it’s better to focus on the teamfights and try to get an early advantage through mapcontrol and capture points.
At this point bosses are only for comebacks and for your team after you wiped the enemy team and you are sure the bosses can be killed fast and not be stolen, also you must communicate with your team, there is no point in killing a boss but then loosing a point and 2 teammates and start snowballing. Plays like that can loose you the game.

In short: Watch the map, be aware of what the enemy team can do and what your team can do. It highly depends on team comps and situations and understanding of what everyone is able to do (how fast someone is, how much dps someone has and so on) when and if you go for these kinds of secondary objectives.
Again: this is conquest, so focus on the capture points and go for the other things if you have time and the pressure freedom.

Only setups that should go beast, if at all is LB ranger, SF fresh air ele, shatter mesmer or some other build with massive spike damage on very low cooldown

When:
- Enemy is on repsawn and you won’t be risking a turn around by killing the creature i.e. you’ve won anyway, doing this just speeds things along.
- Enemy is going for a creature, and you must deny them those points and have them for your team instead i.e. stealing creature kills.
- You are behind and absolutely need those creature kills to comeback.