Guild Wars 2

I am a huge fan of watching PvP videos. I used to watch WoW arenas a lot, and loved spectator mode in TF2. I almost like watching streams and videos more than playing!

From a fan perspective, I thought it might be helpful to know that I I really don’t like watching the SPvP in GW2. I can’t understand the battles. The spell effects overwhelm the gameplay.

It’s hard to see when teams make good use of combo fields, or like what effect that even has on the match. From playing the game, I know there is a lot going on, but from a spectator point of view it’s just not interesting. It’s a chaotic frenzy.

When a rogue in WoW does a key blind on a target, it is very visible with a distinct animation. In GW2 when some performs a key blind, it looks like any other condition. I can’t even tell that a player missed in that scenario. Just too many subtle conditions with tiny icons, and flashy spell effects that kind of blend together.

I think for GW2 PvP to succeed on another level they will need to address this. If a fan can’t really learn or follow along, they aren’t going to watch, and without fan support there’s no positive word of mouth, and limited growth.

yeup, just started watching a few Smite tournies… had me on the edge of my seat and I haven’t even played the game yet.

That, when I’ve played GW2 off and on for months… and still can’t fallow a number of situations in fights (paused/rewound, stared, still couldn’t tell what a few massive light effects in a team fight downing a player in 1/2 a sec were… neither could the casters.)

I can tell you why GW1 players spend decent time here. We all spent 3-6 years playing a monumental pvp game to have it die by its predecessors and having no game to replace it with.

Instead we get some copy and paste of other pvp gamemodes from other games I could play if i were interested in that game mode.. But I am not. So alas, I am here.

this forum is an a bung hole because the game is …. bung

Diage.6451:

I can tell you why GW1 players spend decent time here. We all spent 3-6 years playing a monumental pvp game to have it die by its predecessors and having no game to replace it with.

Instead we get some copy and paste of other pvp gamemodes from other games I could play if i were interested in that game mode.. But I am not. So alas, I am here.

This is the saddest thing. I keep seeing this devs talking about LoL and Dota and I just find myself in a state of disbelief. They seriously don’t seem to understand that GW1 PvP was and is above and beyond them. Take inspiration from your EARLIER GAMES maybe? To abandon everything because of ESPORTS!!!!111ELEVEN is kittened, even more so when you consider that GW1 could have become an esport.

I think the people in sPvP are just incompetent at this point.

How hard is it to realise that for one thing, the amount of evades, immunes, teleports, condi spam needs to be decreased?

How hard is it to communicate properly with your players?

How hard is it to reply to threads other than some bullkitten “Yeah this is really constructive, I don’t actually have to have a dialogue this way”.

Haphazardly made skills, traits, classes, everything really. They could fix this all in one month if they put their mind to it. We’re not talking about programming entirely new modules and systems here. We’re talking about changing values and skill types. Problem is they don’t seem to know what to do themselves. I’d rather have some skills that bug out 1/100th of the time but are balanced then have skills that are both unbalanced and buggy. We’re nowhere near esport level right now so I think balance and design should take priority at this point.

The SOTG just makes it worse. It becomes really apparent there just how far from reality these guys are. What we need is a no bullkitten sit down discussion where the hosts flat out tell ANET the problems of the game. Then we need the developers to actually defend themselves and tell us what they are actually doing to fix things.

Paradoxine.8192:

Diage.6451:

I can tell you why GW1 players spend decent time here. We all spent 3-6 years playing a monumental pvp game to have it die by its predecessors and having no game to replace it with.

Instead we get some copy and paste of other pvp gamemodes from other games I could play if i were interested in that game mode.. But I am not. So alas, I am here.

This is the saddest thing. I keep seeing this devs talking about LoL and Dota and I just find myself in a state of disbelief. They seriously don’t seem to understand that GW1 PvP was and is above and beyond them. Take inspiration from your EARLIER GAMES maybe? To abandon everything because of ESPORTS!!!!111ELEVEN is kittened, even more so when you consider that GW1 could have become an esport.

I think the people in sPvP are just incompetent at this point.

How hard is it to realise that for one thing, the amount of evades, immunes, teleports, condi spam needs to be decreased?

How hard is it to communicate properly with your players?

How hard is it to reply to threads other than some bullkitten “Yeah this is really constructive, I don’t actually have to have a dialogue this way”.

Haphazardly made skills, traits, classes, everything really. They could fix this all in one month if they put their mind to it. We’re not talking about programming entirely new modules and systems here. We’re talking about changing values and skill types. Problem is they don’t seem to know what to do themselves. I’d rather have some skills that bug out 1/100th of the time but are balanced then have skills that are both unbalanced and buggy. We’re nowhere near esport level right now so I think balance and design should take priority at this point.

The SOTG just makes it worse. It becomes really apparent there just how far from reality these guys are. What we need is a no bullkitten sit down discussion where the hosts flat out tell ANET the problems of the game. Then we need the developers to actually defend themselves and tell us what they are actually doing to fix things.

+1000

Paradoxine.8192:

Diage.6451:

I can tell you why GW1 players spend decent time here. We all spent 3-6 years playing a monumental pvp game to have it die by its predecessors and having no game to replace it with.

Instead we get some copy and paste of other pvp gamemodes from other games I could play if i were interested in that game mode.. But I am not. So alas, I am here.

This is the saddest thing. I keep seeing this devs talking about LoL and Dota and I just find myself in a state of disbelief. They seriously don’t seem to understand that GW1 PvP was and is above and beyond them. Take inspiration from your EARLIER GAMES maybe? To abandon everything because of ESPORTS!!!!111ELEVEN is kittened, even more so when you consider that GW1 could have become an esport.

I think the people in sPvP are just incompetent at this point.

How hard is it to realise that for one thing, the amount of evades, immunes, teleports, condi spam needs to be decreased?

How hard is it to communicate properly with your players?

How hard is it to reply to threads other than some bullkitten “Yeah this is really constructive, I don’t actually have to have a dialogue this way”.

Haphazardly made skills, traits, classes, everything really. They could fix this all in one month if they put their mind to it. We’re not talking about programming entirely new modules and systems here. We’re talking about changing values and skill types. Problem is they don’t seem to know what to do themselves. I’d rather have some skills that bug out 1/100th of the time but are balanced then have skills that are both unbalanced and buggy. We’re nowhere near esport level right now so I think balance and design should take priority at this point.

The SOTG just makes it worse. It becomes really apparent there just how far from reality these guys are. What we need is a no bullkitten sit down discussion where the hosts flat out tell ANET the problems of the game. Then we need the developers to actually defend themselves and tell us what they are actually doing to fix things.

hello
if you consider that this is a pve game, you will understand 100% why things are the way they are. it’s not that pvp dev team don’t want to make game better, it’s that they can’t make it too different from pve. they’ve already said that pve and pvp must be consistent in game feel. which leads us to the inevitable conclusion that gw2 will never be good pvp game.

and how does that conclusion arise “inevitably,” exactly?

the pvp fights function as they do because in pve each profession must be autonomous as they run around doing quests and large zerg boss fights. that is what these classes revolve around. mesmer illusions are amazingly frustrating to fight against, but in pve they are how designers wanted mesmers to play, so that’s what we have in pvp. not to mention the biggest reason nothing happens in pvp: devs get the “leftover” programmer time after they deal with pve and wvw issues, so anything they do for pvp must be “quick and dirty”. people want overhauls of pvp, and it’s not going to happen. we will only get a slightly more pvp oriented version of pve. ergo, we will get whatever the pve balancers decide is good for pve, not what we pvpers deserve as a core audience.

Frankly, we could probably thank NCSoft for a lot of this. If I am not mistaken, NCSoft doesn’t believe pvp can make money. But hey, I am not privy to any of their actual conversations, it’s just a guess as of now.

@Milo

You know, in GW1 they had a split of pvp and pve skills and balanced them differently. Things like changing the self sufficiency skills to be more effective on an outward (team-style) sort of style as opposed to a purely self sufficient style would probably help. Things like fewer clones for mesmer but give them some other slight variation of those close to help (I find the mesmer thing to be one of the hardest to change, I don’t think that solution is fully adequate^^).

Anyhow, no one can claim it is impossible to do, it is just whether Anet will feel the desire to put effort into it as you also implicitly pointed out.

players spectate games that they enjoy playing. ppl get excited viewing skilled players play their favourite game and then comment on the builds/strats and so on.

gw2 pvp feels dead from a casual point of view. each time i log in, i can’t even bring myself to play. this is because the game is boring and hard to understand. sure the mechanics are kitten friendly, but all the running around, mindless jumping amid a cluster of animations and particles make this game hard to get into. half the time i have no idea wtf goes on when there are more than 2 ppl on my screen. this game makes the player feel lost.

gw2 will become an esport when it will be playable. yes, i dare to say that this game is unplayable in pvp because i can’t tell what’s going on. half the time it’s button mashing. i know that if people nolife in gw2 they’ll eventually get the hang of it but this is a problem. your esport spectators are the casuals. if the casuals find the game boring to play and hard to understand, you have no esport.

i’m not gonna play or spectate a kittenty game with a boring game mode like conquest which has a cluster of crap obstructing my vision and my understanding of what’s going on. the players i know left this game for the same reasons.

since anet is such a moba fan, they should learn from LoL. the game looks crispy and you don’t feel lost. each animation is easy to notice and you still know what’s going on in team fights.

People for Christ sake, reality check, no one is going to watch a boring game. People that watch football, played it at some point and enjoyed it or have some background related to it (high school or local team or what ever), thus now watch it and enjoy it at a professional lvl. This is NOT true for GW2. What ever popularity this game might have inherited from GW1 it has long since been kitten ed away.

If the game was fun to play, if it could stand on its own completely separated from GW1, it would not be in the dire need of saving it is now.

Most people bought this game, expecting an evolution from GW1, it is not, and its population and popularity has plummeted accordingly.

Unless GW2 breaks away from this failed pvp model and goes back to the trinity and hopefully something closer still to GW1, it will not be fun nor what the people want out of it.

No amount of shout casting accessories or bells and whistles is going to change that, for anyone to be interested in what “pros” do, they have to be interested in the game FIRST. Otherwise it will be “pros” watching “pros” which amounts to a few viewers and that is it.

Why are developers silent?
Here is discussed the most important problem of GW2, and we do not have any comments.Except for something unintelligible.
Players won’t be brainstorming game’s problems if they are ignored.It is two-way process.

Goorman.7916:

Why are developers silent?
Here is discussed the most important problem of GW2, and we do not have any comments.Except for something unintelligible.
Players won’t be brainstorming game’s problems if they are ignored.It is two-way process.

People have spoken, they want more GW1 and less of the mess that is GW2. Devs stay silent because the only other option is to say NO.

Just leave.
The devs have no idea what they are doing.

If they wanted it to be a casual PvE’ers sort of PvP… they wouldn’t have made pugging the worst part of the game…
Matchmaking would have been entirely different, maps would have been made more for zerg shenanigans and dps’ing people would have been a slower somewhat rng process… oh and there would have been a real cash shop, were most anything cosmetic either takes allot of time or a lil money…

If they wanted it to be a competitive PvP game… they could have easily made a good game.

What the devs have at the moment is a mildly polished mess, something that still belongs in alpha… and whoever is coding the thing, still in college…

garethh.3518:

Just leave.
The devs have no idea what they are doing.

If they wanted it to be a casual PvE’ers sort of PvP… they wouldn’t have made pugging the worst part of the game…
Matchmaking would have been entirely different, maps would have been made more for zerg shenanigans and dps’ing people would have been a slower somewhat rng process… oh and there would have been a real cash shop, were most anything cosmetic either takes allot of time or a lil money…

If they wanted it to be a competitive PvP game… they could have easily made a good game.

What the devs have at the moment is a mildly polished turd, something that still belongs in alpha… and whoever is coding the thing, still in college…

I’m still in college, please don’t insult me >.>

garethh.3518:

whoever is coding the thing, still in college…

That’s one area that I cannot agree with you on. The ‘developers’ as in, the actual programmers, map designers etc working on this game are some of the best in the industry no doubt. Now, the gameplay and mechanic designers… they are a different story.