Guild Wars 2

As a player who has been doing WvW for the first few months of the game. Mainly small group vs zergs, I recently found my way to sPvP. After playing the hotjoin for quite some time, I discovered the tournament system.

However, I soon found out that most in map only take 35+ and 40+ in rank for these tournaments.. Even a few time when there was no rank requirement in the announcement, I was asked for my rank (19) and kicked from those parties without a single word or explanation. The few times that a group actually kicked off it was challenging, but not impossible; and as rank only brings more cosmetic rewards instead of better gear as in PvE, I wonder why it is a requirement to join sPvP groups?

So players who just farm hot join in a zerg are more skilled in PvP than those who know how to play their profession but haven’t been in sPvP since day 1? Or are forced to farm dull hotjoin matches for days in order to enjoy challenging PvP?

Rank is a weak proxy for skill, and an indiciation of experience.

Its rare to find a player at rank 40 who doesnt know how to play there class at least copmentently and who understands tourny rotations.
Conversely its rare to find someone below rank 20 who knows what they are doing.

rank shows how much time you’ve been practiced agaisnt other classes.

Of course it doesn’t mean you don’t know how to play your proff if you’re low rank ( reasonably low, like your 19), but maybe you’ve not faced enough “situations” than a , let’s say, a rank 40+.

Don’t misunderstand me, there are tons of rank 20s a lot more skilled than 40s+, but rank is a good measure of the “time you spet facing various PvP situations”.

this is more clear when you think of a PvE player stepping for the first time in PvP: he indeed knows how his proff works, but doesn’t know how to apply it against other players ( my guild is basically PvE focused, i know it very well, since i’m basically one of the few “hardcore” PvP players in it).

Personally, i wouldn’t care about rank as long as they are around 20, but people usually go with the bias “the higher, the better”.

I’ve never understood why people would advertise “group lf 1more” in map chat if they only wanted people above a certain rank. There are some PvP guilds that accept anyone, though.

problem with ranks, is that it’s not tied to a class
I could play elementalist till r40, then switch to another class
does that qualify me as a r40 thief if I never played it? I think not

You can start your own groups and not require a rank. Guest over to Anvil Rock when you want to do some spvp, there is a larger community and groups/guilds that don’t require you to have been playing in spvp since day 1.

Shar.3402:

problem with ranks, is that it’s not tied to a class
I could play elementalist till r40, then switch to another class
does that qualify me as a r40 thief if I never played it? I think not

Lol so much this. Felt weird switching to ranger/ele and the only thing I felt comfortable at the time fighting was thieves.

i played some tournaments (paid + free) with 3 guildmates some days ago against people always level 20 and 30+ while we were all below 20. I was level 10 for example and the others never do spvp without guildies, which means usually never.
We won all 4 tournaments we had.

So yeah, rank doesn’t mean kitten.

Shar.3402:

problem with ranks, is that it’s not tied to a class
I could play elementalist till r40, then switch to another class
does that qualify me as a r40 thief if I never played it? I think not

Haha this is me, almost exactly. I hit r40 last night on mostly ele, and whenever I play others classes (especially thief) I’m always thinking “people must think I suck for being so high level”

I’ve played with players in the teens and 20’s that were easily as good as 30s/40s. Usually players like that have some WvW experience, and they just learn the sPvP part quickly.

If you want to know if the people in your PUG are any good, try:

1. Asking them about their class/build. More often than not “creative” builds don’t work very well in tPvP. Keep an eye on anyone with a weird build.

2. Duel them in an empty server while the group is filling up, or waiting for tournament to start. The best way to know someone is to fight them. Don’t be competitive about it (since most builds aren’t for 1v1), just do it in the spirit of testing/practice/fun. Even if you lose the duel, you can compare how they did vs others of that build.

3. Ask them what classes they think are the strongest vs them. If they say things like “100b warriors eat me alive” and they are an ele, something is wrong.

I recommend method 2. Method 1 and 3 are just information, which is easy to fix if someone is new but generally skilled. Fighting someone is the quickest way to know them (this is partially why people want an easier dueling system). It’s also very hard to get someone to “dodge better” compared to “here’s a better build, try it you’ll love it”

Oddly enough playing WITH someone doesn’t efficiently determine how good they are. Often you’ll stomp or get stomped, which tells you little. Other times they are always on another point, so you don’t see them fight. Since you don’t know the skill of your enemy, it can be hard to evaluate how your teammates did against them. Even if you do have a big team fight together, it’s very hard to keep track of your own class, the enemy AND each player. In a total PUG scenario that’s 4 players to evaluate, which can take many games. It’s hard to know why you lost, especially with no replay mode.

QP checks and rank checks are Lame :/
These people are usually looking for a carry.
My advice is just to..
Find people you enjoy playing with…
Join guilds and look for players looking to run frees/paids

• Play free tournament
• If you get a good group you work well with, ask them to continue on to paid tournament
• Save people you like as friends, over time you will have a long list of people to create parties.

I’ve haven’t ran into much PUG groups doing rank/qp checks. Its understandable for groups that do them because it’s a quick and dirty way to filter out people. It’s not perfect system, but not too far off from what happens when job recruiter sort out resume.

Wini, you have my sympathy, there is not an easy solution.

Most people have an established group of friends that they built up when the game launched, or during Beta, and they don’t need new friends. People are wary of inviting strangers into groups because there are so many leavers. Often they just won’t take a risk. The flow of new players into SPVP has fallen, and those who do want to try it out often struggle to find regular team-mates.

Perhaps the new map will draw some new players into SPVP.

Lie about your rank.

I got started in sPVP 2 days ago, after quitting some months back (was rank 22) and I had the same problem as you.

I joined teams recruiting “any rank, any profession” and there was no problem. After a couple of days, I now have a friends list that contains an adequate number of pple whose nickname ends in _PvP (it’s how I distinguish people). Easier to play now.

I suggest you start recruiting yourself. “Any rank, any profession” has worked well for me and I got to know some interesting people. Not everyone will look at your rank and judge you.

If you want to know if the people in your PUG are any good, try:

1. Asking them about their class/build. More often than not “creative” builds don’t work very well in tPvP. Keep an eye on anyone with a weird build.

2. Duel them in an empty server while the group is filling up, or waiting for tournament to start. The best way to know someone is to fight them. Don’t be competitive about it (since most builds aren’t for 1v1), just do it in the spirit of testing/practice/fun. Even if you lose the duel, you can compare how they did vs others of that build.

3. Ask them what classes they think are the strongest vs them. If they say things like “100b warriors eat me alive” and they are an ele, something is wrong.

I recommend method 2. Method 1 and 3 are just information, which is easy to fix if someone is new but generally skilled. Fighting someone is the quickest way to know them (this is partially why people want an easier dueling system). It’s also very hard to get someone to “dodge better” compared to “here’s a better build, try it you’ll love it”

Oddly enough playing WITH someone doesn’t efficiently determine how good they are. Often you’ll stomp or get stomped, which tells you little. Other times they are always on another point, so you don’t see them fight. Since you don’t know the skill of your enemy, it can be hard to evaluate how your teammates did against them. Even if you do have a big team fight together, it’s very hard to keep track of your own class, the enemy AND each player. In a total PUG scenario that’s 4 players to evaluate, which can take many games. It’s hard to know why you lost, especially with no replay mode.

Sorry for the double post, but I just read this.

I doubt anyone who just wants to play and win some games with a pug will be bothered to do all that. And quite frankly, it has already been mentioned that rank, although not an indicator of skill, is an indicator of experience. If you want experienced players, simply add a rank requirement and maybe ask a few questions before joining a match (build and voice comms).

That is the easy method, and it limits the number of weak people you might get. But it’s a low risk-low reward thing, not to mention it discourages new players.

It would be a lot better to form a pug, get them on a voice comms server, play a couple of games and see how it goes. If you have a sliver of sPvP experience you’ll know who needs to go or stay, provided you are using some kind of voice communication. And you’ll be playing the game at the same time.

Bottom line is, don’t ask for a CV to do sPvP. Bet on the jockey, not the horse. People can learn, and long term it’s a better strategy to help them to do. You get more people to play with, and the game gets more happy smiles.

Wini.7523:

As a player who has been doing WvW for the first few months of the game. Mainly small group vs zergs, I recently found my way to sPvP. After playing the hotjoin for quite some time, I discovered the tournament system.

However, I soon found out that most in map only take 35+ and 40+ in rank for these tournaments.. Even a few time when there was no rank requirement in the announcement, I was asked for my rank (19) and kicked from those parties without a single word or explanation. The few times that a group actually kicked off it was challenging, but not impossible; and as rank only brings more cosmetic rewards instead of better gear as in PvE, I wonder why it is a requirement to join sPvP groups?

So players who just farm hot join in a zerg are more skilled in PvP than those who know how to play their profession but haven’t been in sPvP since day 1? Or are forced to farm dull hotjoin matches for days in order to enjoy challenging PvP?

First you should know that you are not depending on people on map. You can solo queue for tournament at npc, and you will be given team. And for people saying level don’t matter for skill, well in many cases skill is not in question here.
Yesterday I was solo queue, I enter in team and they are all slow to run. Obviously I rush to henge since they are not coming, and as soon as I step in circle 4 of them coming after me. So I’m standing on henge and 4 other people together with me sitting on it. Worst thing is we won this game, and you guess it right all 9 people excluding me were lower then 20. I doubt level 30+ people would do these nonsense things which plenty low levels do unfortunately.

rank is a reward system. it gives steady rewards to people who keep playing. yes, people who have higher rank will necessarily have more experience. however, it is being used as a measure of player skill, and this is wrong. when they added rank to scoreboards I knew things were going to go down hill. tpvp has become a grind for rank. I certainly could have kept grinding, but i stopped a few months ago because it was depressing. note to devs: please add player rating that is visible alongside rank (or just remove rank). this pve mechanic is preventing me from caring about this pvp system. compare: gw1 rank (points only for winning) gw2 rank (points even for losing)

Thats why they need an elo, because it more accurately captures where you are.

HOWEVER. Since rank is what we have, rank is what we use.

Wini.7523:

As a player who has been doing WvW for the first few months of the game. Mainly small group vs zergs, I recently found my way to sPvP. After playing the hotjoin for quite some time, I discovered the tournament system.

However, I soon found out that most in map only take 35+ and 40+ in rank for these tournaments.. Even a few time when there was no rank requirement in the announcement, I was asked for my rank (19) and kicked from those parties without a single word or explanation. The few times that a group actually kicked off it was challenging, but not impossible; and as rank only brings more cosmetic rewards instead of better gear as in PvE, I wonder why it is a requirement to join sPvP groups?

So players who just farm hot join in a zerg are more skilled in PvP than those who know how to play their profession but haven’t been in sPvP since day 1? Or are forced to farm dull hotjoin matches for days in order to enjoy challenging PvP?

I agree it sucks. However those asking for such requirements in chat are themselves noobs generally.

Rank literally means nothing. I have seen signet warriors at rank 42 in paids and I have played with and against very strong players who are level 11.

My advice is to solo queue frees and win enough to get the champion x tag which should then prove your skills irrespective of rank.

Rank is a terrible judge of skill. It completely sucks but I would just create your own group maybe saying lfm rank 10-20. Then make and team and crush some rank 40’s

Edit: if OP or anyone wants to do frees or paids then whisper me in game and I will play with you

Rank is a terrible indicator of skill. But its not nothing.
Take a random sample of twenty people rank 40. And a random sample of twenty people rank 20. The odds are extremely high that the rank 40 people, on aggregate will be more skilled.
Even though it could well be true that in several instances it doesnt hold.
So it doesnt mean nothing, its a filter, albeit a weak one.

daydream.2938:

Rank is a terrible indicator of skill. But its not nothing.
Take a random sample of twenty people rank 40. And a random sample of twenty people rank 20. The odds are extremely high that the rank 40 people, on aggregate will be more skilled.
Even though it could well be true that in several instances it doesnt hold.
So it doesnt mean nothing, its a fitler, abiet a weak one.

I suppose you are correct. It just annoys me to see people say 40+ then they are horribad and we lose. Then they moan at some level 29 in the group who was actually good. lol

+1 for Lordrosicky … I used to beat r40 players and 50 players in my road of tpvp and freeze’s ! It’s Kinda ridiculous coz i really played with 50r players in the same team and they …. hard i dont want to spell it ;p ! but this is how we human beings do ! Blame the others for our mistakes ..jEez ( and sometimes i used to lose from ranked 10 players coz of their builds or their teamplay ) Skill comes ikittennow what to do in a certain situation .. I think rank = How well u know your proffesion and what to do in any situation dats all ! peace

The problem with this is that pugs are generally already bad. Asking for rank 30+ could be at least a little indication of their experience like someone else already said. Indeed if they suck at tournament just kick them out next round…

pretty sure a pug premade r40+ is gonna steamroll a pug premade -r20

we went free tourn for fun this morning (joined with 4 from our guild r40-45+) and we got one pug who disconnected/crashed after 40 secs…we met a premade guild team (Higher rank 16) and we won 500-60 playing 4vs5…. rank doesn’t mean skills (There are high ranked ppl who just camped hot join forever, and those are as bad as lower ranked players)…but for sure i’ll take a r40 over a r20 anyday…like everyone..

Rank doesn’t mean anything beyond time put into game. Friend has rank 63 because he plays a whole lot. Anyone playing that much would have 55+ certainly.

Need solo queue and all these problems go away.

And yeh this is a serious problem. I have made threads on it before. I dont understand why people ask for r30+ for frees lol. Its pretty easy to win a free even with a pug if you play well. At least alot of the time…

When I do a group I request any class and any rank. Sure its frustrating sometimes but so is finding a r40+ group because even then alot of rank 40s have no clue. And people who request high ranks are often bad.

Rank requirements are reasonable…

In this game, rank DOES at least indicate the time you’ve spent pvping…and as a previous poster said, it is a justification that you know what you’re doing.

HOWEVER, I do a lot of high-tier tpvp and I’ve played with/against many 30-40+ people who aren’t up to caliber…BUT I can assure you that they are better than the lvl 10s and 20s mostly.

Since rank is so hard to level in this game, it just indicates the amount of time you’ve dedicated to it…and if you’ve spent so much time pvping, chances are you WILL get better with rank. Even if you’re a hotjoin hero, you would (normally) at least know the ins and outs of your class. You may not know how to properly play with a group in tpvp, but at least you can hold your own.

QPs however, is a joke. Some of the people with the highest QPs are mediocre at best. I don’t understand why people advertise for QP requirements for pvp.

the problem is that there are good high ranked players and grinded high rank players. tell me how you tell them a part.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

the problem is that there are good high ranked players and grinded high rank players. tell me how you tell them a part.

Well when a r52 ranger in paids whispers you something like “You cheater, you are resetting your traits to remove all conditions (Wtf °_°)” while playing a shout cond removal bunker guardian…no need to check how he made his rank..

True story, happened last week sadly i could’t screen it cause i was a little busy at ct at that moment and forgot about it later…lots of lols on ts off course….

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

the problem is that there are good high ranked players and grinded high rank players. tell me how you tell them a part.

You just play with them and learn their names…the community is so kitten small that you get to know all the good(and bad/overrated) players.

Amaterasu.6280:

Rank requirements are reasonable…

In this game, rank DOES at least indicate the time you’ve spent pvping…and as a previous poster said, it is a justification that you know what you’re doing.

HOWEVER, I do a lot of high-tier tpvp and I’ve played with/against many 30-40+ people who aren’t up to caliber…BUT I can assure you that they are better than the lvl 10s and 20s mostly.

Since rank is so hard to level in this game, it just indicates the amount of time you’ve dedicated to it…and if you’ve spent so much time pvping, chances are you WILL get better with rank. Even if you’re a hotjoin hero, you would (normally) at least know the ins and outs of your class. You may not know how to properly play with a group in tpvp, but at least you can hold your own.

QPs however, is a joke. Some of the people with the highest QPs are mediocre at best. I don’t understand why people advertise for QP requirements for pvp.

You think rank requirements are resonable, when most people have done most of their rank in hotjoin.

And yet you think that QPs are a joke when all they are is essentially a rank for paid tournaments which show how much you have played in paids just like rank shows how much you have played at all?

Sorry that logic doesnt make sense to me dude!

Lordrosicky.5813:

Amaterasu.6280:

Rank requirements are reasonable…

In this game, rank DOES at least indicate the time you’ve spent pvping…and as a previous poster said, it is a justification that you know what you’re doing.

HOWEVER, I do a lot of high-tier tpvp and I’ve played with/against many 30-40+ people who aren’t up to caliber…BUT I can assure you that they are better than the lvl 10s and 20s mostly.

Since rank is so hard to level in this game, it just indicates the amount of time you’ve dedicated to it…and if you’ve spent so much time pvping, chances are you WILL get better with rank. Even if you’re a hotjoin hero, you would (normally) at least know the ins and outs of your class. You may not know how to properly play with a group in tpvp, but at least you can hold your own.

QPs however, is a joke. Some of the people with the highest QPs are mediocre at best. I don’t understand why people advertise for QP requirements for pvp.

You think rank requirements are resonable, when most people have done most of their rank in hotjoin.

And yet you think that QPs are a joke when all they are is essentially a rank for paid tournaments which show how much you have played in paids just like rank shows how much you have played at all?

Sorry that logic doesnt make sense to me dude!

Paid rank it’s actually called “I have more qpnts than you” but it doesn’t mean better skills either (Well unless you have like 800+ more than someone maybe) cause you can just farm qpnts all day and have more than someone who is better than you but playing less, if you haven’t a guild going paids everyday and maybe you’re only going free (Sometimes harder to win than paids atm) you are not going to reach the qp ladder….as i said many many times before, the only real way to bring sense to any ranking system is putting something like gw1 gvg where you gain points only winning vs good teams (Same level or better than yours)….ganking low teams or losing doesn’t give you anything (Well if you lose vs a same level/worst team you lose points obviously)…this would be nice imo..sure a lot of early morning farmers would be really disappointed, but who cares..

Lordrosicky.5813:

Amaterasu.6280:

Rank requirements are reasonable…

In this game, rank DOES at least indicate the time you’ve spent pvping…and as a previous poster said, it is a justification that you know what you’re doing.

HOWEVER, I do a lot of high-tier tpvp and I’ve played with/against many 30-40+ people who aren’t up to caliber…BUT I can assure you that they are better than the lvl 10s and 20s mostly.

Since rank is so hard to level in this game, it just indicates the amount of time you’ve dedicated to it…and if you’ve spent so much time pvping, chances are you WILL get better with rank. Even if you’re a hotjoin hero, you would (normally) at least know the ins and outs of your class. You may not know how to properly play with a group in tpvp, but at least you can hold your own.

QPs however, is a joke. Some of the people with the highest QPs are mediocre at best. I don’t understand why people advertise for QP requirements for pvp.

You think rank requirements are resonable, when most people have done most of their rank in hotjoin.

And yet you think that QPs are a joke when all they are is essentially a rank for paid tournaments which show how much you have played in paids just like rank shows how much you have played at all?

Sorry that logic doesnt make sense to me dude!

The logic does make sense, you’re just too dense to see through it.

Do you know how easy it is to farm QPs if you have the right group? VERY. Especially with the way that paids are right now, you can easily get 100qps a day if you and your group/s are dedicated.

Now, you tell me how long it takes to get from lvl 1 to lvl 40-50, compared to getting 1000 QPs?

Even when you farm exp in hotjoins, the exp/time requirement is still there, thus making you PLAY the class. If you have someone do the same thing over and over again, they will eventually get decent at it.

QPs are from winning paids yes, but I come from the inner circle of 25 people who strictly do paids with each other, and they are also the “top” players at the moment. If we group up and play against lower-tier premades, which happens a lot since there aren’t enough people with the same MMR…we ARE going to win, and easily at that. Farming QPs is MUCH easier than exp. You can get carried through a paid and earn QPs.

Logic dude.

Amaterasu.6280:

QPs are from winning paids yes, but I come from the inner circle of 25 people who strictly do paids with each other, and they are also the “top” players at the moment.

[snip]

Farming QPs is MUCH easier than exp. You can get carried through a paid and earn QPs.

Logic dude.

I am sure that QPs are nothing to those 25 people that are considered ‘top players’. But that’s only 5 teams. Even if you can carry one person to earn QPs, then QPs would be nothing for another …6 people, I think.

The rest will probably have to try to get that QP per win, even a little. The importance of any metric is subjective in most cases, but I believe Amaterasu might be exaggerating a bit.

I am not a fan of QPs as a measure for skill, but at least they are tied to winning games. It is definitely a good start, as far as metrics are concerned.

Right now, the community is small and dedicated. Therefore I believe it is easier than usual to get to know the people you are playing with. In my opinion, the best way to get a decent group together is to recruit any rank/QP players and play games with them, while at the same time evaluating their play and how well it matches yours. Keep notes. After 5 days of regular play you’ll have a collection of people that is large enough to make 3 teams, not one.

^Yep,

and to be honest, just because you have a group of skilled players, it doesn’t mean you would all gel well together anyway. Some people just have better synergy and know exactly what position they should be in…and that’s what makes the great premades stand out from the usual.

QPs obviously dont mean a ton but to say it means less than rank is laughable. I mean farming rank can be done exclusively in hotjoin (its quickest in hotjoin) with zero skill following the zerg. To WIN a ton of tournments obviously means more than farming hotjoin. Last time I looked paid tournaments were harder than hotjoin. I really dont get what this guy is on lol

Anyway I looked at your post history and its full of him saying he is always right because he does top tier pvp apparently and everyone else sucks

You totally missed my point, but that’s ok.

Show me a post that quotes when I said ANYONE sucks?

I am confident in my words because I come from the inner circle, not because I’m arrogant. I WANT gw2 pvp to grow…I’m here to share my insight not to stomp on anyone trying to get into it. I don’t think I’ve personally attacked anyone here about their skill.

I don’t see what you’re talking about…

Amaterasu.6280:

You totally missed my point, but that’s ok.

Show me a post that quotes when I said ANYONE sucks?

I am confident in my words because I come from the inner circle, not because I’m arrogant. I WANT gw2 pvp to grow…I’m here to share my insight not to stomp on anyone trying to get into it. I don’t think I’ve personally attacked anyone here about their skill.

I don’t see what you’re talking about…

You missed the point I think mate. Qps mean more than rank because whilst both show grind Qps show grind in tpvp whilst ranks shows grind in hotjoins.

And your first quote to me said something like “you are too dense to understand”. Pretty weird decision to just come in with personal attacks on a video game forum……`

Lordrosicky.5813:

Amaterasu.6280:

You totally missed my point, but that’s ok.

Show me a post that quotes when I said ANYONE sucks?

I am confident in my words because I come from the inner circle, not because I’m arrogant. I WANT gw2 pvp to grow…I’m here to share my insight not to stomp on anyone trying to get into it. I don’t think I’ve personally attacked anyone here about their skill.

I don’t see what you’re talking about…

You missed the point I think mate. Qps mean more than rank because whilst both show grind Qps show grind in tpvp whilst ranks shows grind in hotjoins.

And your first quote to me said something like “you are too dense to understand”. Pretty weird decision to just come in with personal attacks on a video game forum……`

Again, when did I say that anyone sucked? Saying that they are dense has nothing to do with their in-game skill. I’m strictly talking about that since you claim that I say that I play top tier pvp and that I claim everyone sucks.

Where did I say that?

Anyway, I’m going to stop here because this is just spam for the thread. Sorry to the OP.

Amaterasu.6280:

You totally missed my point, but that’s ok.

Show me a post that quotes when I said ANYONE sucks?

I am confident in my words because I come from the inner circle, not because I’m arrogant. I WANT gw2 pvp to grow…I’m here to share my insight not to stomp on anyone trying to get into it. I don’t think I’ve personally attacked anyone here about their skill.

I don’t see what you’re talking about…

I think I can help here—In general, people not a part of an “inner circle” harbor distrust of anyone in an “inner circle.” So using that as a kind of credential check is probably not helpful toward your goal of sharing insight and helping PvP to grow.

I would start you posts with something like “I have a top-5 paids team that I run with regularly but I also solo queue frees all the time.” Otherwise, you’ll probably come off as arrogant even if you aren’t intending to sound that way.

It’s simply a serious flaw in the current system. QPs are, as people have stated, easily grindable within a solid group – you will curbstomp the minimal competition. Rank is even more grindable, as it is only a testament to your endurance and not capabilities. GW1 had the same kind of discrimination, and it was somewhat irksome – if you wanted to get into Hero’s Ascent for the latter part of the game’s life, you were SOL – R6 or higher only please. I got bored about 10 points from becoming R3 (I never really enjoyed HA, I took the halls once and after that I just lost interest – but I certainly saw the appeal back then).

However, at least in GW1, you couldn’t get rank points without winning. In GW2, you can punch Svanir and cap points and rank up just as quickly (if not faster) than those actually fighting to win.