Guild Wars 2

Please stay on topic and not turn this into a flame war….
The thread has a lot of potential… let’s have this one get trash canned.

I am happy to see the majority of the posts are reasoning and are realistic.

Here is some though why this topic is important in my eyes, right now I do not find any other MMORPG with this much content, with this awesome gameplay mechanic and quality.

But the popularity slowly decreasing over time, I remember the hype around the game back in 2012, I was so excited to buy the game after launch and was not dissapointed, and this is why I don’t wana see new trashy and half baked games taking the potential playerbase away look at twitch the ARK a bugy alpha game which will never be developed into a final product taking the throne, Skyforge is on the way and that game is just an another iteration of the old “grind your life away” type of on MMORPG.

When you create a new toon now the initial map for the story start is basicly empty only bots standing there and trying to whisper you with their stupid gold sale (no smart people will risk their account to be banned while you can buy gold via safe ingame), I said it before but I say it again if GW2 would be a monthly subscriber fee game I would still pay it and be happy about it, because it’s worth it.

But I also know not everyone can afford that, or not every player spending enough time ingame to say “I pay monthly ten bucks for 20 hour gameplay”.

Also this isn’t much different from parties when you hit the city saturday night many place asking for fee to enter the club, how many times you paid the price just to go in and see a dead or empty party? That’s why clubs without entrance fee are filled with folks even tho the drinks cost twice as much.

An MMORPG need playerbase and GW2 need more I was sad to see all the low level maps’ champion events like the Cave Troll has been converted to Veteran from Champion because there was not enough player to kill a champ, I have my main toon on 80 for 3 year now and I still like to go back the lv15 maps but the events are just dead there, it was much more fun to see 30 people struggle with the troll than solo it and move to SW because the majority of the player base now those who has the game from launch day.

And this is the problem with the PvP too, there is 2 kind of PvP player out there one who are R80 for 2 year now and can wipe a team of newbies alone and the newbies who are being wiped to 500-10 because even tho they wana try out PvP, there is no equal matchup for them, and the middle layer is totaly missing because those who are constantly being wiped will just give up and go back PvE / WvW.

F2p players usually dont give a thing about a games community if they can only play one aspect of the game.I think there’s gonna be alot of trolling/flaming + an influx of bots and goldsellers.

INB4 Go back to LoL/CS GO/SC2/ other esports game etc and pleb buy the game before you play noob stuff happens.

We all know how GW2 pvp community is. PvP community already hates, pvers, wvwers, arenanet devs, balance team, any player with legendary skin, basically everyone but like 5% of the pvp playerbase. This will not work at all

Free2play… Are you for real? It’s a £30 game for life… If this was subscription based I might agree with you but it’s not so I don’t. End of did.

There’s no reason for it to be free, except if you want HoM full of gold sellers and trolls.

The $10,- sales should be cheap enough for anyone that’s only interrested in PvP.
In GW1 you could buy the pvp only pack for that same price.
In GW 2 you got the full game for that price during that sale.

And there’s been enough other sales that made the game atleast half price.

Sorry but the last posts just makes no arguments, edited in the OP to read the posts if you decide to write anything because your concern may already being argued or solved.

So not going to answer those again just read page one please.

hisorange.3957:

Sorry but the last posts just makes no arguments, edited in the OP to read the posts if you decide to write anything because your concern may already being argued or solved.

So not going to answer those again just read page one please.

don’t make this about you. You created the topic but it is not yours to control.

The fact is making pvp f2p would cost too much while devaluing the PvE game, which is the source of Arena net’s profit.

Furthermore, in other for f2p to be success in terms of revenue for Arena net it would have to invest far too much. LoL a game smaller in scope has over 1000 employees. I am not saying Arena net has to hire that many employees. I am saying for f2p to be a viable source of income Arena net will have to invest into more employees.

Right now, they can barely make content for PvE, WvW and even their cash shop. What makes you think they will be able to have the resources to hire more employees to maintain not only the PvE systems, but now the separate PvP system? The current method of bundling pvp with PvE means that they don’t have to dedicate too many resources into PvP because PvP is simply a bonus.

the truth is PvP is not a priority and simply suggesting they make PvP f2p is not a viable business model for Arena net. PvP is considered a benefit to buying Guild wars 2, make it f2p the base game loses value. Make it f2p, Arena net HAS to dedicate a lot of resources into monetizing it and maintaining it which isn’t easy. LoL is a game with a significantly small scope has 1000 employees, did you consider why that is?

Peutrifectus.4830:

Free2play… Are you for real? It’s a £30 game for life… If this was subscription based I might agree with you but it’s not so I don’t. End of did.

HotM only free to play. Because more players translates to more viewers, which means bigger competitions. And more competition.

And that means much more money for Arenanet. So everyone’s happy.

does it? where does this money come from then? advertisments during tournaments? entry fees?… that needs to be substantial for them to consider losing point of sale.

style.6173:

PlatinumMember.5274:

There is no point in making it f2p. There are very few ways to monetize MMORPG PvP games to make it worthwhile to f2p. Mobas can be f2p because you need to buy heroes, MMORPG however do not have that benefit and thus does not make it worthwhile.

Finally, how many people will give up LoL to come play guild wars 2. The point being making it f2p is a waste of money and resources.

It is easy to ask for things OP when you don’t have to think about the logistics and the difficulty it is to convert a game to f2p and still find ways to generate income without making it too causing a backlash.

Can you list more than 2 f2p PvP mmorpg ONLY games?

You are completely wrong. F2P would bring in more players which is what we need. ANET could make money then through:

1. Heroes sales for stronghold
2. Upgrades to buy the elite specs
3. Boosters
4. Custom Arena rooms

Everyone wins.

Also you’d bring in much more players that simply wanted to “demo” the combat system and basic gameplay – which you can even in the hotm – that then will even buy the full game.

People would make alt accounts just to boost their wins be joining other teams and doing things to help the team lose.

it’s only $50 and you can play it forever after that for free

Peutrifectus.4830:

does it? where does this money come from then? advertisments during tournaments? entry fees?… that needs to be substantial for them to consider losing point of sale.

It should be apparent from the comments that a lot of these suggestions are ignoring the business aspect. They ignore the fact that making PvP f2p devalues the game. They are ignoring a lot of important variables, so I wouldn’t argue too much with the people here.

PlatinumMember.5274:

Peutrifectus.4830:

does it? where does this money come from then? advertisments during tournaments? entry fees?… that needs to be substantial for them to consider losing point of sale.

It should be apparent from the comments that a lot of these suggestions are ignoring the business aspect. They ignore the fact that making PvP f2p devalues the game. They are ignoring a lot of important variables, so I wouldn’t argue too much with the people here.

I’m not ignoring the business factor believe me.

if a F2P pvp game gets popular it will make way more money than the add value of an instanced pvp to the wider game package. They’re spending hundreds of thousands promoting the competitive game, but this is what will take them to where they want to go from a business perspective here.

PlatinumMember.5274:

Peutrifectus.4830:

does it? where does this money come from then? advertisments during tournaments? entry fees?… that needs to be substantial for them to consider losing point of sale.

It should be apparent from the comments that a lot of these suggestions are ignoring the business aspect. They ignore the fact that making PvP f2p devalues the game. They are ignoring a lot of important variables, so I wouldn’t argue too much with the people here.

People who play F2P games, like Heroes of the Storm, or League of Legends spend money on skins/unlocking champions. These games both have a steady revenue stream (potentially more than GW2).

GW2 could easily open up a subset of of the trait lines for a F2P PvP-only game client and require that the rest be unlocked through gold purchases (which can be bought with cash —> gems, or earned slowly from pvping). This would be no different than how they are currently locking amulets amulets and requiring people to unlock them with gold. This is equivalent to unlocking champions in HotS and LoL.

Secondly, the cash shop already offers a ton of skins and outfits for cash purchase, much like the other games mentioned.

Lastly, GW1 already had a PvP-only access kit: http://store.guildwars.com/store/gw/en_US/pd/ThemeID.37893000/productID.304111500

Anet is NOT new to offering PvP-only access for Guild Wars. I would love to see at least this part be made available to increase the pvp player base.

i don’t think you understand the gravity of what would happen if GW2 went F2P. mmos that go F2P die a slow and nasty death and if they don’t die half the time they are not worth playing.sorry i don’t want tons of bots,gold sellers,hackers,and pay to win coming into this game..also forgot to add how F2P games servers always go down then take hours to come back up.

trunks.5249:

i don’t think you understand the gravity of what would happen if GW2 went F2P.

Nobody is suggesting GW2 goes F2P..

Needs to happen IMO.

Kharr.5746:

PlatinumMember.5274:

Peutrifectus.4830:

does it? where does this money come from then? advertisments during tournaments? entry fees?… that needs to be substantial for them to consider losing point of sale.

It should be apparent from the comments that a lot of these suggestions are ignoring the business aspect. They ignore the fact that making PvP f2p devalues the game. They are ignoring a lot of important variables, so I wouldn’t argue too much with the people here.

People who play F2P games, like Heroes of the Storm, or League of Legends spend money on skins/unlocking champions. These games both have a steady revenue stream (potentially more than GW2).

GW2 could easily open up a subset of of the trait lines for a F2P PvP-only game client and require that the rest be unlocked through gold purchases (which can be bought with cash —> gems, or earned slowly from pvping). This would be no different than how they are currently locking amulets amulets and requiring people to unlock them with gold. This is equivalent to unlocking champions in HotS and LoL.

Secondly, the cash shop already offers a ton of skins and outfits for cash purchase, much like the other games mentioned.

Lastly, GW1 already had a PvP-only access kit: http://store.guildwars.com/store/gw/en_US/pd/ThemeID.37893000/productID.304111500

Anet is NOT new to offering PvP-only access for Guild Wars. I would love to see at least this part be made available to increase the pvp player base.

I am not saying LoL players are not buying stuff.

Think about this, even though LoL is smaller in scope why does riot have 1000 employees. having a standalone f2p system is not easy or cheap.

LoL has Tencent one of the biggest chinese gaming company. They can dedicate the resources. The other one is owned by Blizzard, which also has money pit. Dota2 has the valve.

The fact of the matter is:
1. f2p pvp only MMORPG do not exist for a reason.
2. Arena net does not have the resources to be able to split focus. As a matter of fact, having a PvP only game is probably outside their core competency. (this is very important).
3. They can barely handle the current guild wars 2, even when all their focus is on PvE. What means you they can handle two separate system, which is what will happen. Arena net can’t kitten it, because that will further destroy their brand.
4. Unnecessary risk.
5. Arena net cannot compete against LoL or Dota 2 or that other game.

The point being, asking for stuff is easy. None of you guys seem to have the basic business training to understand why it will never happen.

You can keep asking though.

PlatinumMember.5274:

Think about this, even though LoL is smaller in scope why does riot have 1000 employees. having a standalone f2p system is not easy or cheap.

…k

None of you guys seem to have the basic business training to understand why it will never happen.

….k

thanks again internet

don’t make this about you. You created the topic but it is not yours to control.

I have no benefit to make this connected to me, but I opened this topic and read all the posts in it, and I can clearly see that there are people who just read the title or half of the OP and started to write their own reply, meantime those concerns are already has been mentioned / argued. So, yeah I don’t want the thread to iterate the same concern over and over again just because some folks wana enjoy their rant time without reading.

1. f2p pvp only MMORPG do not exist for a reason.

Are you sure? What if I say every F2P MMO doing the same? And even some P2P.

It doesn’t matter in what disguise you put it in.

• 30 day free trial.
• F2P but have to be a subscriber to get your labor points.
• F2P or B2P but the $ gives you benefit in the cashshop.

All business model except the pay 2 play without ingame cashop doing the same.

Think about this, even though LoL is smaller in scope why does riot have 1000 employees. having a standalone f2p system is not easy or cheap.

This will explain a lot: http://www.riotgames.com/careers Riot represents the company all around the world, they have offices everywhere, you think 1,000 people working on the game? Even an OS project with Git PRs can’t handle this many different input.

ANet has a 250 crew but they only exists in the US, their interest doesn’t go to “Santiago, Chile” like Riot.

Diversion? Yep a fact to open PvP free to the world would require more attention from ANet’s side, but how much more is the question, utilizeing a system which already exists (invite your friends to try out GW2) in a different way wouldn’t take up development time, new acc creation and gold selling wouldn’t be an issue since we already discussed that those are limitable and can be 100% shut out.

More focus on PvP: Nope, not needed to provide “more” just because PvP is F2P, actually you can create a trashy unbalanced F2P game “Who cares? it’s free, get over it” stands in that situation. But we have a B2P game and many of the user wana play PvP, so they have to pay attention to their customers’ concerns.

PlatinumMember.5274:

The fact of the matter is:
1. f2p pvp only MMORPG do not exist for a reason.

Which is ? Also, if the sPvP part of GW2 went F2P, you’d be hard pressed to call that offering a MMORPG in the first place.

Phaeton.9582:

PlatinumMember.5274:

Think about this, even though LoL is smaller in scope why does riot have 1000 employees. having a standalone f2p system is not easy or cheap.

…k

None of you guys seem to have the basic business training to understand why it will never happen.

….k

thanks again internet

Let me make this easy for you, the arguments you guys have been making are terrible. There are a lot of variables you guys are clearly ignoring.

So you can say:
lol
k
thanks internet

You can say whatever. It doesn’t make what I said less true and it doesn’t make your argument less terrible. This topic isn’t going to convince some finance or marketing guy why an underfunded resource drain should receive more funding to make it f2p.
Just to be clear, I haven’t once argued against the idea. My goal here was to show you why it will never happen.

stof.9341:

PlatinumMember.5274:

The fact of the matter is:
1. f2p pvp only MMORPG do not exist for a reason.

Which is ? Also, if the sPvP part of GW2 went F2P, you’d be hard pressed to call that offering a MMORPG in the first place.

From my experience the first sign of poor argument is resorting to pedantry.

Which is? simple the mmorpg crowd do not want a standalone PvP game. More imporantly those games do not have a chance at succeeding in the era of MOBAs.

PlatinumMember.5274:

Let me make this easy for you, the arguments you guys have been making are terrible. There are a lot of variables you guys are clearly ignoring.

Ah ok thanks for clearing it up – sometimes it just takes a superior mind to point these things out!

PlatinumMember.5274:

I haven’t once argued against the idea. My goal here was to show you why it will never happen.

k also understood

PlatinumMember.5274:

From my experience the first sign of poor argument is resorting to pedantry.

As a sign of poor arguments, it’s probably tied in somewhere with “I disagree with you and I won’t tell you why” like you did.

PlatinumMember.5274:

Which is? simple the mmorpg crowd do not want a standalone PvP game. More imporantly those games do not have a chance at succeeding in the era of MOBAs.

Who cares about the mmorpg crowd here? If the sPvP part were to go F2P, it’ll bring in it’s own crowd of people interesting in that part of the game. In fact, the sPvP in GW2 is so far away from traditional MMORPGs in the first place with 0 gear or XP farm anyway, I always though it had the potential to be it’s own independent game because it’d attract a completely different crowd than the traditional MMORPG players.

Bundling everything at once (PvE, WvW and sPvP) like ANet did is bound to scare a few potential customers that have 0 interest in part of those offerings and don’t want to pay for the pack.

And as it stands now, from what I see, all successful multiplayer game are either F2P or incredibly cheap + F2P stores. GW2 fails here since HoT was put for sale, because the price of the sPvP part got increased to “too expensive” (aka, the price of a full copy of HoT). This will not help sPvP population in my opinion.

Was interesting to read about HoT, eariel in the thread folks mentioned HoT will bring a lot of old folk back to the game.

So, anyone thinks it’s a realistic scenario where someone bought the game played it for x time and then quit, and now will pay $50 buck again to give it an another try?

Don’t missunderstand it, I hope it does, it’s just something that never happened to me.

This thing come up yesterday when I was drinking with my friends and 2 of them are actually left the game not so long ago, because they got bored of PvE but when they wanted to start PvP they were farmed by old players and eventually just gave up, now when I talked about the HoT with them, they didn’t even consider to buy the game again because of some new PvE map.

Maybe leagues will bring some changes but I think it’s only gona effect the players who already in the PvP scene.