Guild Wars 2

I was close to getting legendary (would have gotten it but I had some trash players in my team who willingly gave away mid cap twice, and caused the loss). After that game my downhill started. Before that, my winrate was, and has always been, between 55-70%. Now its suddenly ~75% lossrate. I just can’t get teammates who would match my skills. I’m sure that at this part most of you will go and kitten kitten about mmrhell not existing etc. Well either you are just trolling or plain stupid. It exists. It’s not always the case of mmrhell when qqers come here to say that, but I’m certain that I’m in it.

I have played nearly all classes somewhat successfully (except thief & warrior), and I’m rerolling at start to make out the best combos. Earlier that saved many matches, but now that I’m in that mmrhell it makes no difference. I run support? Teammates too dumb to understand how support helps and what they have to do to get that support. I run bruiser? I usually win my part of the game, but the rest of the team doesn’t deliver. And that goes on.

After that legendary-deciding loss I’ve had ~25-30 games, and won ~7 of them. I’m not saying that every loss would have been only my teammates fault. Of course few matches have happened where even I can’t get anything done. And there are also those games where legendary ranked players throw games just because they don’t need to sweat (which also has it’s own topic). But usually when I can get stuff done, my teammates can not. Those few wins that I had were usually because enemies were so bad that I don’t even know how they got into diamond. But in most of the games, it’s on my side. And to clarify, NOT EVERY TEAMMATE BUT INVIDUALS. Inviduals who just happen to kitten up the game so bad that you can’t carry him/them when you have worthy players against you.

If you managed to read this far, thank you. Have you had similar experiences? Have you found any solution? Btw “wait X days” is not a solution, it’s trying to forget the problem and praying that next time you win lottery.

Well it’s not MMR hell, but the fact that you are teamed up with people who shouldt be in your devision. I had similar expirince in diamond somewhere 2 weeks ago. Some people teamed up to overcome it within their pip range. I went ultra try hard mode.

Basically what system wants you to be now is effectify be 60% of a team.

feel for you – am past caring now given up in my mind – will keep trying to improve but am done for my confidence is gone and I have marked apathy in the matches now – wont give up as its not in my nature – but yea don’t care anymore otherwise!

I know the feeling, matchmaking is totally random, everyone knows this, here it’s the best suggestion I can give to you

1) Go in duo queue (if you solo). Take a partner who is good at least like you and he plays some meta build between ele/reve/necros/mesmer/scrapper. No thief, no warrior, no dh.

2) You need to do the same, you need to play well 2 (at least)meta builds different from your partner. Go in queue and look your team composition. Switch professions (you and your partner) depending on team composition. Create the right mix of sustain/damage. If there isn’t a ele try to ask for (or relog) a good one. In general one of you needs to be ready to play ele. And stomp with the kittening ele if there are other people who are cleaving.

3) Watch ofc the enemy team composition and try to create a better mix in your favour.

4) Tactic: try to put everyone in his best position. This means if there is a thief don’t push the kittening far with other profs. If there is a mesmer split the job (close holder and far attacker) between thief and mesmer. Don’t push far with necro. Don’t stay afk on node if there is no one. Make pressure on far sometimes with the right professions. Don’t trade close or mid for far if you have them. It’s a bad trade.

This is enough to reach legendary division without big issues.

last season legendary means nothing, you could grind your way to it regardless of your mmr and skill, you could abuse the matchmaking by duoq with ambers, you could spam chronobunker to win matches while playing with 1 hand

at least this season legendary is actually much more close to show the player’s skill as opposed to the previous season where it just went to show the player’s ability to grind

Just played more today, 4 games, 4 losses. Every time either teammates getting outrotated by enemy team or warrior and dh stacking on my team. This is plain impossible with soloque.

Anyone else in my situation willing to try some team ques?

I wonder if some folks can read. "It’s not MMR hell, it’s just that you are teamed wit player who shouldn’t be in their division ". But they are on his division, so what’s your point??

Op this what many of us have been experiencing, and tbh I mo longer give an iota about this season. But yeah, this season is a dice game, the luckier you are/ the better your MMR is; more wins are going to fall under your belt.

Yea a lot of people who aren’t very good made it to diamond which makes the entire experience frustrating. I feel your pain OP

Once again Anet proving they have no idea.

No one expects a free carry but omfg when you’re only 1 pip from going up a division just to hit a losing streak. Then slowly build back up, just to hit another losing streak.

You think they’d have a light bulb moment and realise “Losing streaks upset people”.

But no, ANet has no idea.

Lexander.4579:

at least this season legendary is actually much more close to show the player’s skill

Then just go back to regular PvP, we don’t need seasons for that. The reward system asks for progress, yet they give you games your supposed to lose.

SoPP.7034:

Lexander.4579:

at least this season legendary is actually much more close to show the player’s skill

Then just go back to regular PvP, we don’t need seasons for that. The reward system asks for progress, yet they give you games your supposed to lose.

reward system awards those who are able to climb, everyone else gets only dyes and silver for crossing tiers

this is a competitive atmosphere, not a reward track so everything is working as intended

This system is exactly what people have described, all about luck. If you get lucky with teammates and enemies you will get to legendary fast. If you dont, you might keep going up, down, up, down until you suddenly get that last needed luck, or give up.

It just seems that Anet made the legendary journey easier for those who would have gotten there anyways no matter what, and meanwhile kittened up those players who could reach legendary but now its all about RNG.

1st season = Matchmaking abuse
2nd season = RNG
3rd season? They could implement system that those who pay most gold gets easy matches. And seriously that wouldn’t even surprise me.

Fatallion.5389:

This system is exactly what people have described, all about luck. If you get lucky with teammates and enemies you will get to legendary fast. If you dont, you might keep going up, down, up, down until you suddenly get that last needed luck, or give up.

It just seems that Anet made the legendary journey easier for those who would have gotten there anyways no matter what, and meanwhile kittened up those players who could reach legendary but now its all about RNG.

1st season = Matchmaking abuse
2nd season = RNG
3rd season? They could implement system that those who pay most gold gets easy matches. And seriously that wouldn’t even surprise me.

its not RNG, if you are getting matches you cant win or you are stuck at a certain rank then this is it: you’ve hit your skill roof and you have to improve if you ever wish to advance, of course unless Anet will redesign their ranked system back into favoring grind in the following season

Fivedawgs.4267:

I wonder if some folks can read. "It’s not MMR hell, it’s just that you are teamed wit player who shouldn’t be in their division ". But they are on his division, so what’s your point??

Op this what many of us have been experiencing, and tbh I mo longer give an iota about this season. But yeah, this season is a dice game, the luckier you are/ the better your MMR is; more wins are going to fall under your belt.

Yeah, i can read, and i know that this system is crap. But MMR hell does not exist. It’s GW only hell because of safeguards does exist.

It does exist, and I went over that with rdjudicator( someone who actually understand glicko 2). It wouldn’t exist if lower players weren’t stacked together against high, or if a 50/50 scenario or pip ( no MMR included) was implemented. And I am not going to go over it; if you want more info check the legend times queue thread.

Fivedawgs.4267:

It does exist, and I went over that with rdjudicator( someone who actually understand glicko 2). It wouldn’t exist if lower players weren’t stacked together against high, or if a 50/50 scenario or pip ( no MMR included) was implemented. And I am not going to go over it; if you want more info check the legend times queue thread.

So basically what i said. It’s not MMR hell because those matches in Glicko 2 wouldn’t have happened at the first place. That’s why MMR hell does not exist.

It’s special to GW2 because of grind/mmr systems working together. Don’t muddle those 2. Because they are different.

Phil.8901:

Don’t trade close or mid for far if you have them. It’s a bad trade.

Every match I lose, this is what I always see. As soon as we’ve won Mid, at least 2 rush off to cap far, thinking we’ll just win by blowout.
Instead, it just tips the balance which leads to our loss… almost everytime.

I’m a core player, so keeping a player advantage at mid, or close, is the only way to really win. As soon as someone starts pushing far, that’s when the elite classes just auto wins.

I’ve got a question though.
I don’t switch classes at the start, mostly because I’m trying to learn one class at a time in PvP but also because my char slot is full, so can’t add anymore.. anyway.
Which would you recommend as a counter to necro/mesmer as a core player?
I’ve been running various Engineer builds, the latest is a P/P condi build focused on a lot of might stacking that’s actually been able to toe-to-toe against some elites, but Necros and some mesmers are still too rough, dunno how to counter them.
Switched to a rifle warrior for a bit, which was pretty strong, but quite glass cannony. As long as I had 1 elite on my side, we’d win every time because my support dmg would ruin the other side, but as soon as I was in a core team, we were fluffed.

Any advice for a core to counter necro?
I don’t have char slots for a mesmer or necro :/ but I’ve got all other classes.

Fivedawgs.4267:

I wonder if some folks can read. "It’s not MMR hell, it’s just that you are teamed wit player who shouldn’t be in their division ". But they are on his division, so what’s your point??

Op this what many of us have been experiencing, and tbh I mo longer give an iota about this season. But yeah, this season is a dice game, the luckier you are/ the better your MMR is; more wins are going to fall under your belt.

Not really true. I played warrior all the way until late ruby because I was stubborn and wanted to make a point to all those crybabies that tell better players to switch class.

Admittedly warrior is in an extrmely bad spot right now (which means you will lose vs equally skilled people 100% of the time) and the whole thing resulted in terrible games with people puposefully afking and me trashtalking back. My MMR became abysmal in the progress.

At somepoint I switched to scrapper/druid. The recovery was hard but I managed to carry many games (which is rather easy when all players in your team but also in the enemy team (!) are trash) and I am now very close to legend. If anything then MMR hell exists only for bad/mediocre players and the whole pupose of the league system actually is that those players do NOT reach legend. If everybody could do it then where is the point?

Dojo.1867:

Fivedawgs.4267:

I wonder if some folks can read. "It’s not MMR hell, it’s just that you are teamed wit player who shouldn’t be in their division ". But they are on his division, so what’s your point??

Op this what many of us have been experiencing, and tbh I mo longer give an iota about this season. But yeah, this season is a dice game, the luckier you are/ the better your MMR is; more wins are going to fall under your belt.

Not really true. I played warrior all the way until late ruby because I was stubborn and wanted to make a point to all those crybabies that tell better players to switch class.

Admittedly warrior is in an extrmely bad spot right now (which means you will lose vs equally skilled people 100% of the time) and the whole thing resulted in terrible games with people puposefully afking and me trashtalking back. My MMR became abysmal in the progress.

At somepoint I switched to scrapper/druid. The recovery was hard but I managed to carry many games (which is rather easy when all players in your team but also in the enemy team (!) are trash) and I am now very close to legend. If anything then MMR hell exists only for bad/mediocre players and the whole pupose of the league system actually is that those players do NOT reach legend. If everybody could do it then where is the point?

Dno, there are many warriors who did it to leg with warrior only, you are just crappy warrior.

I am pretty sure it is doable even if harder. My point was that for me it resulted in a spiral of tilting so it was better to change something. Part of the reason was also me being frustrated with balance so for my mentality to change it was best to change classes.

Maybe my warrior is not legend worthy. Don’t have a problem with that. I still made it by switching my playstyle while other people cry on forums about elo hell.

People crying on forum because they want quality matches at least. Which does not happen most of the times in this season.

Basically, there is already a problem in your statement “you can carry if you have bad team mates, but your enemies are bad too”. Thing system doesn’t deliver is balanced matches with the same skill between teammates and enemies, where progress is not involved. Imagine you having those bad teammates and enemies which are on the same level as you ? Will u be able to progress ? Never.

And system works around the way, that you, yourself by carrying bads create unbalance in matchmaking, for example, you can carry few bads then another one carry those bads, etc, with little amount of luck they end up being somewhere in diamond, screwing up balanced matches by their presence, they will end up in legendary, by paying to get carried, screwing MM even further.

Dojo.1867:

Fivedawgs.4267:

I wonder if some folks can read. "It’s not MMR hell, it’s just that you are teamed wit player who shouldn’t be in their division ". But they are on his division, so what’s your point??

Op this what many of us have been experiencing, and tbh I mo longer give an iota about this season. But yeah, this season is a dice game, the luckier you are/ the better your MMR is; more wins are going to fall under your belt.

Not really true. I played warrior all the way until late ruby because I was stubborn and wanted to make a point to all those crybabies that tell better players to switch class.

Admittedly warrior is in an extrmely bad spot right now (which means you will lose vs equally skilled people 100% of the time) and the whole thing resulted in terrible games with people puposefully afking and me trashtalking back. My MMR became abysmal in the progress.

At somepoint I switched to scrapper/druid. The recovery was hard but I managed to carry many games (which is rather easy when all players in your team but also in the enemy team (!) are trash) and I am now very close to legend. If anything then MMR hell exists only for bad/mediocre players and the whole pupose of the league system actually is that those players do NOT reach legend. If everybody could do it then where is the point?

Out of curiosity I have 3 questions for you based on the bold underline part of your reply.

1)When you say your MMR became abysmal what do you mean by “abysmal”?

2)How is it logical to say having trash teammates make carrying easy?

3)Why are you so sure your case is representative of others?

Every think that maybe your just not legendary quality? That maybe the reason for the suddenly losing is you have finally starting get placed against people better then you the majority of the time? Why does everyone and I mean everyone not just you thinks they should keep winning at a high level forever? There are people better then you at this game and probably quite a few of them.

brannigan.9831:

Your not a legendary player deal with it. There reason for the suddenly losing is you have finally starting get placed against people better then you the majority of the time. Why does everyone and I mean everyone think they should keep winning forever? I got new for you there are people better then you at this game and probably quite a few of them.

I do not remember even a single example of someone saying he had a problem not being legendary. This isn’t close to the problem I read most people have. Isn’t mine for sure.

Also, “everyone” think they should keep winning forever? Someone who never thought that one second is replying to you right now. I think you need to get some serious reading skill and information processing ones too.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Dojo.1867:

Fivedawgs.4267:

I wonder if some folks can read. "It’s not MMR hell, it’s just that you are teamed wit player who shouldn’t be in their division ". But they are on his division, so what’s your point??

Op this what many of us have been experiencing, and tbh I mo longer give an iota about this season. But yeah, this season is a dice game, the luckier you are/ the better your MMR is; more wins are going to fall under your belt.

Not really true. I played warrior all the way until late ruby because I was stubborn and wanted to make a point to all those crybabies that tell better players to switch class.

Admittedly warrior is in an extrmely bad spot right now (which means you will lose vs equally skilled people 100% of the time) and the whole thing resulted in terrible games with people puposefully afking and me trashtalking back. My MMR became abysmal in the progress.

At somepoint I switched to scrapper/druid. The recovery was hard but I managed to carry many games (which is rather easy when all players in your team but also in the enemy team (!) are trash) and I am now very close to legend. If anything then MMR hell exists only for bad/mediocre players and the whole pupose of the league system actually is that those players do NOT reach legend. If everybody could do it then where is the point?

Out of curiosity I have 3 questions for you based on the bold underline part of your reply.

1)When you say your MMR became abysmal what do you mean by “abysmal”?

2)How is it logical to say having trash teammates make carrying easy?

3)Why are you so sure your case is representative of others?

Those “trash” teammates of his are people with the closest MMR to him in the league. He doesn’t even understand how the matchmaking works so attempting to discuss something he doesn’t understand isn’t going to get anyone anywhere. We have all these people that claim they are carrying people that are the same MMR level as themselves which is a ludicrous idea. Hey these people are about the same skill level as me but Im doing all the work! Also, they have no clue how MMR works it doesn’t magically become abysmal it would take an insane amount of losses compared to wins to drop your MMR significantly once its established like hundreds of games or being really bad if you have a few thousands games played. Also, you don’t even take a MMR hit on a loss if the other side had higher MMRs. Its just a crying fest with almost no basis in reality and its getting boring all these MMR hell nonsense posts and thats what they are 100% nonsense.

brannigan.9831:

Every think that maybe your just not legendary quality? That maybe the reason for the suddenly losing is you have finally starting get placed against people better then you the majority of the time? Why does everyone and I mean everyone not just you thinks they should keep winning at a high level forever? There are people better then you at this game and probably quite a few of them.

Let me get this straight. So I progress to 1 win away from legendary with steady climbing, had a winstreak towards the end, but then suddenly you claim that I’ve “reached my limits” and my 55-70% winrate changes to 75% lossrate? Out of nowhere? No. If it was my limits I would see more losses than wins for a while, but then get few more wins than losses also. It would be steady, somewhat 50% winrate. But sudden change that noticeable and big? No.

Tbh your post just seems like that you didn’t even read the whole OP.

If it makes you feel any better I had a loss rate of 80% at one point (t5→t1 diamond) cuz I got so tilted by baddies and overall just played worse since I kept losing.

Take a few days break and come back, i started winning/doing better after a break. Never play more than 3 losses in a row too, it could be the other team is stronger or you just get queued with baddies, either way take a break and don’t tilt.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Dojo.1867:

Fivedawgs.4267:

I wonder if some folks can read. "It’s not MMR hell, it’s just that you are teamed wit player who shouldn’t be in their division ". But they are on his division, so what’s your point??

Op this what many of us have been experiencing, and tbh I mo longer give an iota about this season. But yeah, this season is a dice game, the luckier you are/ the better your MMR is; more wins are going to fall under your belt.

Not really true. I played warrior all the way until late ruby because I was stubborn and wanted to make a point to all those crybabies that tell better players to switch class.

Admittedly warrior is in an extrmely bad spot right now (which means you will lose vs equally skilled people 100% of the time) and the whole thing resulted in terrible games with people puposefully afking and me trashtalking back. My MMR became abysmal in the progress.

At somepoint I switched to scrapper/druid. The recovery was hard but I managed to carry many games (which is rather easy when all players in your team but also in the enemy team (!) are trash) and I am now very close to legend. If anything then MMR hell exists only for bad/mediocre players and the whole pupose of the league system actually is that those players do NOT reach legend. If everybody could do it then where is the point?

Out of curiosity I have 3 questions for you based on the bold underline part of your reply.

1)When you say your MMR became abysmal what do you mean by “abysmal”?

2)How is it logical to say having trash teammates make carrying easy?

3)Why are you so sure your case is representative of others?

1) I mean really low due to many losses in games I could have won if I/my team didn’t tilt.

2) The point is that everyone (!) in the match is trash. You are the only variable. If 9 players are bad this allows your individual impact to be relatively high. This makes carrying much easier than for example in a game of [2 good 2 bad + you] vs [3 good + 2 bad].

3) I am not but I base this on logic. Sure I assum that the enemy team has bad players too (so not only your allies) but with a high enough number of games this will be the case. At this point good players will have left low divisions already because they get matched with other good players and climb. Only people with low MMR are stuck but in their games they are the only variable so they can carry if they are actually better than their MMR.

Dyze.1580:

Phil.8901:

Don’t trade close or mid for far if you have them. It’s a bad trade.

Every match I lose, this is what I always see. As soon as we’ve won Mid, at least 2 rush off to cap far, thinking we’ll just win by blowout.
Instead, it just tips the balance which leads to our loss… almost everytime.

I’m a core player, so keeping a player advantage at mid, or close, is the only way to really win. As soon as someone starts pushing far, that’s when the elite classes just auto wins.

I’ve got a question though.
I don’t switch classes at the start, mostly because I’m trying to learn one class at a time in PvP but also because my char slot is full, so can’t add anymore.. anyway.
Which would you recommend as a counter to necro/mesmer as a core player?
I’ve been running various Engineer builds, the latest is a P/P condi build focused on a lot of might stacking that’s actually been able to toe-to-toe against some elites, but Necros and some mesmers are still too rough, dunno how to counter them.
Switched to a rifle warrior for a bit, which was pretty strong, but quite glass cannony. As long as I had 1 elite on my side, we’d win every time because my support dmg would ruin the other side, but as soon as I was in a core team, we were fluffed.

Any advice for a core to counter necro?
I don’t have char slots for a mesmer or necro :/ but I’ve got all other classes.

Engi p/p? Warrior rifle? You need to buy HoT if you want to compete at the same level.

Play META not useless builds (meta battle.com – conquest – meta )

Btw pushing far is necessary when there is the opportunity.

Pushing far with brain helps a lot to win the game.

Pushing far with no brain (and with no right professions) kill Your team many Times.

This was the meaning.

brannigan.9831:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Dojo.1867:

Fivedawgs.4267:

I wonder if some folks can read. "It’s not MMR hell, it’s just that you are teamed wit player who shouldn’t be in their division ". But they are on his division, so what’s your point??

Op this what many of us have been experiencing, and tbh I mo longer give an iota about this season. But yeah, this season is a dice game, the luckier you are/ the better your MMR is; more wins are going to fall under your belt.

Not really true. I played warrior all the way until late ruby because I was stubborn and wanted to make a point to all those crybabies that tell better players to switch class.

Admittedly warrior is in an extrmely bad spot right now (which means you will lose vs equally skilled people 100% of the time) and the whole thing resulted in terrible games with people puposefully afking and me trashtalking back. My MMR became abysmal in the progress.

At somepoint I switched to scrapper/druid. The recovery was hard but I managed to carry many games (which is rather easy when all players in your team but also in the enemy team (!) are trash) and I am now very close to legend. If anything then MMR hell exists only for bad/mediocre players and the whole pupose of the league system actually is that those players do NOT reach legend. If everybody could do it then where is the point?

Out of curiosity I have 3 questions for you based on the bold underline part of your reply.

1)When you say your MMR became abysmal what do you mean by “abysmal”?

2)How is it logical to say having trash teammates make carrying easy?

3)Why are you so sure your case is representative of others?

Those “trash” teammates of his are people with the closest MMR to him in the league. He doesn’t even understand how the matchmaking works so attempting to discuss something he doesn’t understand isn’t going to get anyone anywhere. We have all these people that claim they are carrying people that are the same MMR level as themselves which is a ludicrous idea. Hey these people are about the same skill level as me but Im doing all the work! Also, they have no clue how MMR works it doesn’t magically become abysmal it would take an insane amount of losses compared to wins to drop your MMR significantly once its established like hundreds of games or being really bad if you have a few thousands games played. Also, you don’t even take a MMR hit on a loss if the other side had higher MMRs. Its just a crying fest with almost no basis in reality and its getting boring all these MMR hell nonsense posts and thats what they are 100% nonsense.

Sure if you have no clue how MMR works too, if you would you would stop trolling.

Ok the thing about branigan is that he doesn’t undertsand/comprehend that there was no MMR reset this season. So, it’s very hard for him to get himself to undertsand those words.

I think your MMR can indeed be worse than your actual skill level – for example when you tilt but keep playing or if you play with your weaker classes.

Also mmr hell implies that you cannot get out of it what I doubt will be the case for OP. He is on a losing streak but he will be able to break it unlike people that are actually bad and deserve the low mmr.

Dojo.1867:

I think your MMR can indeed be worse than your actual skill level – for example when you tilt but keep playing or if you play with your weaker classes.

Also mmr hell implies that you cannot get out of it what I doubt will be the case for OP. He is on a losing streak but he will be able to break it unlike people that are actually bad and deserve the low mmr.

Ok, i was diamond on my acc somewhere around 2-2.5 weeks ago, i m mainly WvWvW roamer with 3 years experience in this game i have somewhere around 5 k matches, i lost around 20 + matches, to ESL pro league players mixes back then. My MMR is stable so i don’t suffer from that much.

What happens with another good (mechanically) or semi good players in that sense when he starts of facing way way way tougher opponent when they don’t have many games invested in sPvP ? His MMR starts decline and he can’t fall in the devisions bellow, MMR is not suffers much but it suffers, more loose streaks and it suffers quiet alot actually.

And then happens this, he is stuck on the bottom with TRUE skill level of 1500 MMR lets say. But his MMR is around 1200. System finds him teammates within that 1200 MMR range and randomly gives opponents of 1500.

It’s the same as saying Pro player can carry team which is way below his skill level against Pro player team mix on opposing side in lesser scale. Is it so hard to comprehend ?

Raek.8504:

And then happens this, he is stuck on the bottom with TRUE skill level of 1500 MMR lets say. But his MMR is around 1200. System finds him teammates within that 1200 MMR range and randomly gives opponents of 1500.

See this right there is just an unrealistic scenario. Why? Because there are no 1500 MMR players left to get matched vs 1200. If this was the case they would constantly win (because their teammates are 1500 MMR aswell) and climb out of this pip range.

What you describe is a very real problem in the first two or three weeks of the season but it gets more and more neglectable. At some point if you are REALLY stuck at a certain division then you belong there.

It is just hard to accept for people and easier to blame matchmaking. It is true. They need to work on those first few weeks to reduce lopsided matches but right now this effect pretty much doesn’t exist anymore.

Dojo.1867:

Raek.8504:

And then happens this, he is stuck on the bottom with TRUE skill level of 1500 MMR lets say. But his MMR is around 1200. System finds him teammates within that 1200 MMR range and randomly gives opponents of 1500.

See this right there is just an unrealistic scenario. Why? Because there are no 1500 MMR players left to get matched vs 1200. If this was the case they would constantly win (because their teammates are 1500 MMR aswell) and climb out of this pip range.

What you describe is a very real problem in the first two or three weeks of the season but it gets more and more neglectable. At some point if you are REALLY stuck at a certain division then you belong there.

It is just hard to accept for people and easier to blame matchmaking. It is true. They need to work on those first few weeks to reduce lopsided matches but right now this effect pretty much doesn’t exist anymore.

That’s not the case, this season start of with people artificially bumping lowering/increasing everyone else MMR when everyone started of within the same bracket and tier guards existing.

Raek.8504:

Dojo.1867:

I think your MMR can indeed be worse than your actual skill level – for example when you tilt but keep playing or if you play with your weaker classes.

Also mmr hell implies that you cannot get out of it what I doubt will be the case for OP. He is on a losing streak but he will be able to break it unlike people that are actually bad and deserve the low mmr.

Ok, i was diamond on my acc somewhere around 2-2.5 weeks ago, i m mainly WvWvW roamer with 3 years experience in this game i have somewhere around 5 k matches, i lost around 20 + matches, to ESL pro league players mixes back then. My MMR is stable so i don’t suffer from that much.

What happens with another good (mechanically) or semi good players in that sense when he starts of facing way way way tougher opponent when they don’t have many games invested in sPvP ? His MMR starts decline and he can’t fall in the devisions bellow, MMR is not suffers much but it suffers, more loose streaks and it suffers quiet alot actually.

And then happens this, he is stuck on the bottom with TRUE skill level of 1500 MMR lets say. But his MMR is around 1200. System finds him teammates within that 1200 MMR range and randomly gives opponents of 1500.

It’s the same as saying Pro player can carry team which is way below his skill level against Pro player team mix on opposing side in lesser scale. Is it so hard to comprehend ?

Your example doesn’t work because most games are won by good rotations not just mechanical skill. Good rotations and teamplay require experience – you will get that experience only by doing pvp. A LOT of it. A person that have done a lot of pvp matches does have stable mmr. A person with very few pvp games does not have that experience and frankly doesn’t deserve to be in higher divisions until he learns how to play on pvp maps.

Cynz.9437:

Raek.8504:

Dojo.1867:

I think your MMR can indeed be worse than your actual skill level – for example when you tilt but keep playing or if you play with your weaker classes.

Also mmr hell implies that you cannot get out of it what I doubt will be the case for OP. He is on a losing streak but he will be able to break it unlike people that are actually bad and deserve the low mmr.

Ok, i was diamond on my acc somewhere around 2-2.5 weeks ago, i m mainly WvWvW roamer with 3 years experience in this game i have somewhere around 5 k matches, i lost around 20 + matches, to ESL pro league players mixes back then. My MMR is stable so i don’t suffer from that much.

What happens with another good (mechanically) or semi good players in that sense when he starts of facing way way way tougher opponent when they don’t have many games invested in sPvP ? His MMR starts decline and he can’t fall in the devisions bellow, MMR is not suffers much but it suffers, more loose streaks and it suffers quiet alot actually.

And then happens this, he is stuck on the bottom with TRUE skill level of 1500 MMR lets say. But his MMR is around 1200. System finds him teammates within that 1200 MMR range and randomly gives opponents of 1500.

It’s the same as saying Pro player can carry team which is way below his skill level against Pro player team mix on opposing side in lesser scale. Is it so hard to comprehend ?

Your example doesn’t work because most games are won by good rotations not just mechanical skill. Good rotations and teamplay require experience – you will get that experience only by doing pvp. A LOT of it. A person that have done a lot of pvp matches does have stable mmr. A person with very few pvp games does not have that experience and frankly doesn’t deserve to be in higher divisions until he learns how to play on pvp maps.

Your rotation to far means zero if you can’t kill anyone 1v1. If 5 k matches is low to understand something in this limited game ? Give me a break. I m not discussing my experience, it’s fine by me. Thou i can imagine how it affects people less experienced in PvP.

Raek.8504:

Cynz.9437:

Raek.8504:

Dojo.1867:

I think your MMR can indeed be worse than your actual skill level – for example when you tilt but keep playing or if you play with your weaker classes.

Also mmr hell implies that you cannot get out of it what I doubt will be the case for OP. He is on a losing streak but he will be able to break it unlike people that are actually bad and deserve the low mmr.

Ok, i was diamond on my acc somewhere around 2-2.5 weeks ago, i m mainly WvWvW roamer with 3 years experience in this game i have somewhere around 5 k matches, i lost around 20 + matches, to ESL pro league players mixes back then. My MMR is stable so i don’t suffer from that much.

What happens with another good (mechanically) or semi good players in that sense when he starts of facing way way way tougher opponent when they don’t have many games invested in sPvP ? His MMR starts decline and he can’t fall in the devisions bellow, MMR is not suffers much but it suffers, more loose streaks and it suffers quiet alot actually.

And then happens this, he is stuck on the bottom with TRUE skill level of 1500 MMR lets say. But his MMR is around 1200. System finds him teammates within that 1200 MMR range and randomly gives opponents of 1500.

It’s the same as saying Pro player can carry team which is way below his skill level against Pro player team mix on opposing side in lesser scale. Is it so hard to comprehend ?

Your example doesn’t work because most games are won by good rotations not just mechanical skill. Good rotations and teamplay require experience – you will get that experience only by doing pvp. A LOT of it. A person that have done a lot of pvp matches does have stable mmr. A person with very few pvp games does not have that experience and frankly doesn’t deserve to be in higher divisions until he learns how to play on pvp maps.

Your rotation to far means zero if you can’t kill anyone 1v1. If 5 k matches is low to understand something in this limited game ? Give me a break. I m not discussing my experience, it’s fine by me. Thou i can imagine how it affects people less experienced in PvP.

I am talking about that imaginary guy with amazing mechanical skill. You said he doesn’t have many matches.

Also why the hell would you rotate to far that is already capped by enemy and there is someone defending it (unless it is a thief) ?

Cynz.9437:

Raek.8504:

Cynz.9437:

Raek.8504:

Dojo.1867:

I think your MMR can indeed be worse than your actual skill level – for example when you tilt but keep playing or if you play with your weaker classes.

Also mmr hell implies that you cannot get out of it what I doubt will be the case for OP. He is on a losing streak but he will be able to break it unlike people that are actually bad and deserve the low mmr.

Ok, i was diamond on my acc somewhere around 2-2.5 weeks ago, i m mainly WvWvW roamer with 3 years experience in this game i have somewhere around 5 k matches, i lost around 20 + matches, to ESL pro league players mixes back then. My MMR is stable so i don’t suffer from that much.

What happens with another good (mechanically) or semi good players in that sense when he starts of facing way way way tougher opponent when they don’t have many games invested in sPvP ? His MMR starts decline and he can’t fall in the devisions bellow, MMR is not suffers much but it suffers, more loose streaks and it suffers quiet alot actually.

And then happens this, he is stuck on the bottom with TRUE skill level of 1500 MMR lets say. But his MMR is around 1200. System finds him teammates within that 1200 MMR range and randomly gives opponents of 1500.

It’s the same as saying Pro player can carry team which is way below his skill level against Pro player team mix on opposing side in lesser scale. Is it so hard to comprehend ?

Your example doesn’t work because most games are won by good rotations not just mechanical skill. Good rotations and teamplay require experience – you will get that experience only by doing pvp. A LOT of it. A person that have done a lot of pvp matches does have stable mmr. A person with very few pvp games does not have that experience and frankly doesn’t deserve to be in higher divisions until he learns how to play on pvp maps.

Your rotation to far means zero if you can’t kill anyone 1v1. If 5 k matches is low to understand something in this limited game ? Give me a break. I m not discussing my experience, it’s fine by me. Thou i can imagine how it affects people less experienced in PvP.

I am talking about that imaginary guy with amazing mechanical skill. You said he doesn’t have many matches.

Also why the hell would you rotate to far that is already capped by enemy and there is someone defending it (unless it is a thief) ?

You are at close, your team looses mid, u don’t go and suicide there, but you for example push far for 1v1 u win you get a cap team desingage the fight to close/far.

Raek.8504:

That’s not the case, this season start of with people artificially bumping lowering/increasing everyone else MMR when everyone started of within the same bracket and tier guards existing.

Doesn’t matter what their artificial MMR is. People above the average of a pip range will continuesly leave that range because they win. If you belong to those people then you will too. Only people with low “true” MMR wont get out and eventually the only people left will be those. So if your true MMR is higher you will get matches with 9 other people that do in fact have this low true MMR and you will rise.

Artificial MMRs do not exist after a certain time period because the rule of large numbers and the way the system is set up works against them. Bad people deny this fact but it is pure logic.

Dojo.1867:

That’s not the case, this season start of with people artificially bumping lowering/increasing everyone else MMR when everyone started of within the same bracket and tier guards existing.

Doesn’t matter what their artificial MMR is. People above the average of a pip range will continuesly leave that range because they win. If you belong to those people then you will too. Only people with low “true” MMR wont get out and eventually the only people left will be those. So if your true MMR is higher you will get matches with 9 other people that do in fact have this low true MMR and you will rise.

Sure u will, you will progress when your team mates and enemies are bad, the problem starts, when your team mates are below average you are average and facing average in that division. But you mmr will still fall below, and new below average will come to devision again. The time when u ll be able to progress it’s when u are average, your teammates below average and enemies below average.

“the problem starts, when your team mates are below average you are average and facing average in that division”

When you are average you should not progress. You reached your proper division if you have the skill level of the average player in that division.

Dojo.1867:

“the problem starts, when your team mates are below average you are average and facing average in that division”

When you are average you should not progress. You reached your proper division if you have the skill level of the average player in that division.

That’s basically why the system is flawed, buddy, because it’s mix of grind(pip)/MMR system. In LoL when you are bronze, you always face average while being average and having average team mates. Yet you are able to progress, because you are progressing in skill term. Got it ? Here you don’t progress, because you are average, having average enemies and team mates below average.

Why do you think i m even bad ? It’s fail system on paper. I haven’t go issues with my progress. But i want quality matches, when my enemies are not bad, and my team mates are not bad.

I teamed up with my friend half way through Diamond over the weekend, who was a legendary season 1 player. I myself am in Ruby. We won about 11 games in a row as a team before I logged off.

Now you would think that after pummeling diamond division players as a ruby player, your MMR would go up, but no. First game back solo queue in Ruby I get pasted with idiot teammates!

My advice OP, you really need to find 1 or 2 friends who you have faith in to queue with for this season at least.

I feel your pain, sometimes you seem to get stuck into some weird place where you cannot get a good group. I just simply learned to change up at these times.

I’ve had two days in a row where I would hit winstreaks from 5-8 in a row. Then suddenly after one loss I’m going up against teams that rotate better and simply outplay my team.

This doesn’t mean that I’m better or worse at any of these times. But the algorithm somehow picks the groups different. I’m not sure if there are more factors than just MMR. But it might simply mean that at the time I start losing there are simply more high MMR people queueing up, meaning I get teamed up with those with lower MMR compared to them. Resulting in a loss.

This is the main reason why I think MMR should be reset upon starting a league. Many people are now being carried by old MMR that they might have farmed in a cheap way. While others, that just started playing or just did other stuff than ranked get slapped in the face by this system.

Reset it when a season starts, the good players will float up and everyone will be at their right MMR reasonably quick enough. But you will prevent a season long of people being punished over and over again simply by at some point not gaining a high enough MMR to get decent teammates.