Guild Wars 2

So let me start off by saying this is going to be a lengthy read. I also apologize because I had a very similar thread I made awhile ago but either it got graveyarded or I just missed it. As I remember it the items I listed in the thread did get a lot of positive support and some criticism.

I will be organizing this by class and/or major mechanic. I will also try to have the flavor of something you could see in real patch notes except with a little notations of explaining behind any changes that might not inherently be understood.
Please keep all support, criticism, and opposition as mature as possible.
I believe that one cannot really understand a class just by playing Spvp, but wvwvw and getting to 80 in PVE as well. I also have the least experience with Engineer, Warrior, and Ranger classes but the times I did play them (and against them) they seemed to be balanced enough to have multiple viable builds for countering most situations. If there is anything you think that is important for these classes that I should have included, please include them in your reply and explain why, so I can better understand (and probably edit them into the OP).

Also note that most of these changes are with the inherent expectation that most/all of the important bugs with all classes whether it be talent related or ability are fixed before hand.
I will start from smallest changes to largest
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Thanks for reading,
and Yes I have a lvl 80 Thief and a lvl 80 Mesmer. I mostly play Ele in spvp.

only 2 changes to ele?

how about fixing all the bufs and making ele dps viable in competitive pvp

Arcane.4950:

only 2 changes to ele?

how about fixing all the bufs and making ele dps viable in competitive pvp

Fixing would mean bugs. I did state that these changes would be made with the expectation that the major bug fixes were already done (which is why I didn’t include any bug fixes in my suggestions keeping it a LOT shorter of a post)

Also I think ele dps is extremely viable. That is the main class i play in spvp, not even my real 80s. If you are building for dps and not support, don’t just make glass cannon. Build around ranged and PB aoe, getting in, getting out, and getting right back in to the fray. I have toasted 3 pple sitting on a node by myself doing this with constantly switching attunements.

Ele is also pretty much the #1 class in wvwvw. Also from what I have seen a very valuable part of any dungeon group with the most support.

Basically, you’re buffing Thieves and Mesmers even more.

I, for one, am glad you don’t have a job at ArenaNet.

Most of your fixes are bullcheat, and show you have no understanding of the game or what balance is.
Just a few off the top of my head:

1. Quickness applied to the next attack renders QZ useless, thus any currently viable ranger builds in sPvP. Actually all utility skills will be nerfed to oblivion with your fix.

2. Stealth a boon? Really? What diff does it make actually, since you can;t strip it with a targeted utility since you loose target when someone is in stealth. So no utility that can steal, strip or convert boons can actually work.

3. Shortbow abilities on on thief should have 1200 range? Like longbow on ranger? Really? Like really really?

I wont even go on. This is more like a troll post than anything else.

Knyx.5926:

and Yes I have a lvl 80 Thief and a lvl 80 Mesmer. I mostly play Ele in spvp.

And this made me lol so bad, looks like “My name is John Joe smith, but you can call me Susan”.

I guess you missed the part where I said Mature criticism. Acting like a child only demeans yourself, doesn’t effect me.

@Kagemitsu Maturity? nope. Quoting or tagging parts explaining how they are supposedly buffing those classes? 0 for 2.

@Dust Bunny If you rely on quickness, that means you are relying on 1 trick pony builds. Even the devs will tell you that is your fault and has nothing to do with game balance.

It makes A LOT of difference. You tell me I have no understanding of how the game works but in the same post say there is no utility that can strip or convert boons without a target. I can 100% tell you there are multiple (Key hint: Ground placement)
There are also abilities in the game that steal boons, there are also mechanics that increase boon duration, even tho on such a short duration boon won’t have a large difference.

Shortbow on a Ranger has 1200 range. Every class has a sustained 1200 range weapon. With promoted zerg vs zerg gameplay, and to even compete in things like wvwvw defense, thief needs one too, even if it means reducing damage (did you read the part about damage reduction?) Longbow on a ranger can get up to much more then 1200 range….

If you have a problem believing I have those 80s, would you like to see a screenshot of my character select?

I might have disregarded ground targeted skills, like Null Filed for stripping boons. Any other ones you have in mind? Not so many huh? Only WoC and NF would work to remove stealth as a boon. Great thinking.

And not every class has 1200 ranged options (e.g. Guardian). Shortbow is “short”-bow for a reason.
Stop acting stupid on purpose by bringing WvW into a balance issue. The game will never, hear me ya, never be balanced around WvW.

Dust Bunny.1652:

I might have disregarded ground targeted skills, like Null Filed for stripping boons. Any other ones you have in mind? Not so many huh? Only WoC and NF would work to remove stealth as a boon. Great thinking.

And not every class has 1200 ranged options (e.g. Guardian). Shortbow is “short”-bow for a reason.
Stop acting stupid on purpose by bringing WvW into a balance issue. The game will never, hear me ya, never be balanced around WvW.

There are more that can strip it, even via talents, but thats the problem. Everyone who complains think it should be handed to them.
Guardian has scepter… while it isn’t the best weapon it is still 1200 range. They also have tons of options for keeping their defending group/attacking group alive. We already know they are strong in spvp and pve.
Again, you are right it IS a shortbow, that is why you can get more range with a Longbow to exceed it. The ranger shortbow (as you said “Short-bow”) has 1200 range. The weapon is not called the “rangers shortbow”, it is a shortbow.
I also never said the game should be balanced around wvwvw, but it has to be balanced around ALL 3. You are just attempting to put words in my mouth.

Knyx.5926:

If you have a problem believing I have those 80s, would you like to see a screenshot of my character select?

And how exactly is that proof that you have any competence?
If you said that you are rank 40, with 50%/50% play time on mesmer and thief, that would actually mean (beside having no life lol) that you played mesmer and thief enough to know what’s up, what’s balanced and what’s op .
Two lvl 80 toons in PVE mean just that. Nothing more.

Knyx.5926:

Dust Bunny.1652:

I might have disregarded ground targeted skills, like Null Filed for stripping boons. Any other ones you have in mind? Not so many huh? Only WoC and NF would work to remove stealth as a boon. Great thinking.

And not every class has 1200 ranged options (e.g. Guardian). Shortbow is “short”-bow for a reason.
Stop acting stupid on purpose by bringing WvW into a balance issue. The game will never, hear me ya, never be balanced around WvW.

There are more that can strip it, even via talents, but thats the problem. Everyone who complains think it should be handed to them.
Guardian has scepter… while it isn’t the best weapon it is still 1200 range. They also have tons of options for keeping their defending group/attacking group alive. We already know they are strong in spvp and pve.
Again, you are right it IS a shortbow, that is why you can get more range with a Longbow to exceed it. The ranger shortbow (as you said “Short-bow”) has 1200 range. The weapon is not called the “rangers shortbow”, it is a shortbow.
I also never said the game should be balanced around wvwvw, but it has to be balanced around ALL 3. You are just attempting to put words in my mouth.

Balance around WvW will never happen.
Bringing up the worst ranged weapon in the game as example (guardian scepter) is really not funny.
FYI, even if the guardian scepter has 1200 range, ele scepter has 900 range mostly. You should know this right, you play ele in sPvP.

@ Dust Bunny, There is your problem again. You made the snickerish comment like I did not have those. I only made the statement in the OP because some of the complainers on these forums tend to jump on a thread with ANY suggested change and say “well you must play those classes”, which is childish, and I beat them to the punch even tho not all these changes are all for mesmer and thief.

Also, you have that mindset that the game is 100% spvp. Where you get that free 80. You probably are also thinking the game should be balanced all around spvp. That is extremely naive and kind of insulting to A-net with the time and money they spent.
If someone only played spvp and is rank 80, they still only understand 1/3 of the game.
There is something called a skill-cap, so someone who is only rank 10-15 but has a real lvl 80 and competes in wvwvw has a LOT more experience on what is supposedly unbalanced then someone who is high rank and only played in spvp.

Dust Bunny.1652:

1. Balance around WvW will never happen.

2. Bringing up the worst ranged weapon in the game as example (guardian scepter) is really not funny.

3. FYI, even if the guardian scepter has 1200 range, ele scepter has 900 range mostly. You should know this right, you play ele in sPvP.

1. You already said that exact statement. Do you read what you type or even read my rebuttal. Putting words in my mouth again is not helping your argument.

2-3. uhh. I did say it was a bad weapon but I also explained what they do for their team at the same time (I also mentioned any additions that you thought should be made to include them with mature and constructive reasoning, something you should have done with the guardian+scepter hint hint). What does any of this have to do with ele using a scepter?..

You want the same range for shortbow on thief, as for the ranger.
I just gave an example where the same weapon has different range for different class.
Take a hint hint.

I will say it again, balance considering WvW issues will never happen. Balance in the current system will only happend because of sPvP/tourney.
PVE balance will only be in the form of mobs getting their damage nerfed or buffed.

Just an example, if you had 20 guardians in a keep, spamming SoA and Sancruary at the gate so people would be knocked of rams and kitten, also spamming sanctuary around the keep lord (whatever the npc name is), ANET will not nerf a thing.

Heartseeker was not nerfed because of WvW, nor was tome of courage. Just understand that no balance will take place skillwise, unless unbalanced skills will have a PVE, sPVP and WvW version.

Knyx.5926:

If someone only played spvp and is rank 80, they still only understand 1/3 of the game.
There is something called a skill-cap, so someone who is only rank 10-15 but has a real lvl 80 and competes in wvwvw has a LOT more experience on what is supposedly unbalanced then someone who is high rank and only played in spvp.

Put this in the OP, right on the top, so people reading your post will know where you come from. Sounds rude, but take a hint hint.

Yes there is a skill cap. And taking part in WvW is a source of experience. But you will still get yourkitten handed to you in tourney nonetheless. There are exceptions to the rule, those being the really skilled players.
Also you can;t tell based on WvW what’s balanced and what’s not since you have so many different external factors (additional jewels, huge diff of gear and weapons, etc).
The only controlled enviroment where people are on the same level, where balance matters the most is sPvP.
GW2 is intended to be an esport, and just because of that, the main/only source of balance will be sPvP for now, case closed.

If you get it, ok, if not, have a happy life. I don’t really care.

Dust Bunny.1652:

You want the same range for shortbow on thief, as for the ranger.
I just gave an example where the same weapon has different range for different class.
Take a hint hint.

I will say it again, balance considering WvW issues will never happen. Balance in the current system will only happend because of sPvP/tourney.
PVE balance will only be in the form of mobs getting their damage nerfed or buffed.

Just an example, if you had 20 guardians in a keep, spamming SoA and Sancruary at the gate so people would be knocked of rams and kitten, also spamming sanctuary around the keep lord (whatever the npc name is), ANET will not nerf a thing.

Heartseeker was not nerfed because of WvW, nor was tome of courage. Just understand that no balance will take place skillwise, unless unbalanced skills will have a PVE, sPVP and WvW version.

1. I will repeat since you seem to discount we have already went over this.
Yes the Guardian scepter has 1200 range. Yes the ele scepter does not. However, the ele has weapons with 1200 range, so do ALL classes except the thief.

2. This is a mistake on your part and again you are just insulting A-net. What is with this naive thinking. The game will not be balanced around Spvp, tourney included, alone. It will be balanced around ALL 3. I would think this would be obvious so I am kind of just at awh.

Heartseeker change was based on having 75% of the threads on the front page everyday being complaits about heartseeker, even with only a few replies each because the same generation that likes to bandwagon also likes to have to most attention. They also put that change on heartseeker, nerf or tweak whatever you want to call it, within hours of making an official statement claiming they will not be making ANY balance changes till the game matures more. I am however forgiving and giving A net a chance to redeem themselves at this point and I dont even use heartseeker more then once every maybe 2 fights.

I agree it will be difficult to balance changes on wvwvw out of the 3, for things like damage/healing amount. But for effects, or baseline items like knockdown duration, range of a weapon or exploitable mechanics like you mentioned from a guardian those are far easier.

No need to put it in the OP, I honestly couldn’t care that much of where I come from, because if they are so caught up on that, then they don’t really care about balance in the first place.
Again if you have a suggested change to bring the guardian scepter more in line, please do. I tried but I couldnt successfully come up with anything basing on everything else they bring (since it already 1200 range you gotta change damage/attack speed)

Interesting fixes. The signet change for mesmer was a bug fix anyway, since its supposed to work in and out of combat.

These are just some constructive critisism.
- i think ur going down the wrong path with stealth being a boon. Ground targetable boon removal (such as null) would remove it but there is no guarentee that it would land, let alone remove the stealth skill 1st. Since null is a pulse per second, it would require the target to stay in it. Also, how would it work with skills that require a target (arcane thievery)? Unless the target can be targetable in stealth, its not a good change.

- I’m in agreeance with the other posters requarding quickness , making it only next skill would ruin it.

- Moa change would make it useless. Moa is used for control/cc, having heal + skills available still would make it crap. (pop stealth, endure pain etc. to negate it. Even though it can be dodged/LOS a better soloution would be to change duration to 6 seconds and cooldown to 120 seconds.

- P. warden is still useless if its standing still, it needs to move an attack as right now ppl just dodge it.

- i think necro/ ranger needs small buffs.

- Pistol whip change – thumbs up.

- Shortbow range stays at 900, but through traits make it 1200.

Nice thoughts tho. Yes, i play a mesmer, and i do tourn, spvp a d wvw.

@ Koix Why do the targetable ones need to have anything to do with it?
The ground targetable ones are enough. There is also a table included with that ability and stealth, as to which one is really stripped first. Balancing that could just be position on that table.

Currently quickness is creating too many 1 trick pony builds, and even thought it may be bad players unwilling to adapt it doesnt mean they are 100% in the wrong. This makes the ability more reactable, and still be viable since the duration will be increased giving you more time to decide which ability to use it on. With the internal cooldown on the talent and sigil quickness procs being cut in half, that again means more quickness popping. I probably should have also suggested a reduced cooldown on all quickness utility abilities. I was going for a weaker but more reactable quickness, that occurs more often.

Moa would not be useless, they would not have access to ANY of their weapon abilities. Currently moa is despawning necro minions. This is something that should NOT happen. I play a mesmer and see no problem with classes being able to heal or stealth while transformed, they are still out of action as far as helping their team or really retaliating for the duration.

The Warden change i suggested would probably be a lot simpler (for Anet) and more balanced then having it move at all times while attacking. That would make it Overpowered, it does a LOT of damage during that whirl as it is.

I am glad you like the Pistol whip change, what about the backstab/sword speed changes?

I def could see it being talent related to bring shortbow to 1200 range. That makes it fist I guess since Ranger has to do the same to bring their longbow beyond it.

@ Dust Bunny. I am done with the childish bandwagon responses.

i disagree with removing backstabs positional requirement, that is a risk vs reward situation, those should be encouraged, not dumbed down.

as for stealth, i dont know how i feel about that idea. seeing as i dont know how many non target required boon stripping there is.

Wolfe.3097:

i disagree with removing backstabs positional requirement, that is a risk vs reward situation, those should be encouraged, not dumbed down.

as for stealth, i dont know how i feel about that idea. seeing as i dont know how many non target required boon stripping there is.

I will admit that was the change with the least amount of thought. I did it with the attempt to remove more of the 1 trick pony building. Just because it simplifies one end doesn’t mean it’s not needed nor does it mean dumbing down. I don’t think positional requirements make much sense in a game without perma stealth or at least a base line that lasts at least 10 seconds. Add that to abilities in the game that actually cause auto facing (because there is), the knockbacks, knockdowns etc. Plus on really small engagements (more like 1v1) the positioning is something you can surely live with, but on larger ones and with all the partical effects without that high yield stealth it doesn’t make sense at all

@ Kynx i dont think its enough for ground targetable tbh, if im going to use my 45 sec cd boon, condition remover when a thief is in my face, i want it to land and remove it. Your right tho, a priority system would need to put it at the top of the list so it not wasted.

P. Warden does good damage, but only if it gets off its entire attack. Most people move out of the way once their being hit, or move as soon as its summoned. Reduce damage by 25%, make the aoe slightly larger, make our illusion hp signet actually work and make it attack and move. That wood fix it for me and make it better than swordsman ( which does more dmg atm)

Moa needs that control, u can still dodge/los it in form anyway. Leaving skill/heal in would ruin it for me. Nerfing it to 6 seconds would be fine. The minion removal is a bug, not intended.

Sword changes were fine, thumbs up.

Quickness needs a change, just not the change u suggested tbh, 1 trick pony are a plague atm. I cant think of one, other than removal.

@ Koix Thank you for the insight and constructive critique.
I will admit the moa change was primarily based on Necros, and like some of the other changes I suggested also like a middle ground that I thought would be something you could expect from A-net since it would be easier for them to implement. The thing with the necro pets is though, what happens if a necro summons a pet out of combat, then replaces that utility skill with something else, its the same mechanic that despawns them because of MoA, I don’t think fixing it one way will not break it in the other.