Guild Wars 2

So a lot of people (esp gw1 people) have been wanting a gvg game type in this game. People often go to certain areas in WvW simply to duke it out in 15v15 or 20v20 "gvg"s, basically deathmatches.

Here’s my idea for a gvg game type that would fit into gw2:

It would be a cross between WvW and sPvP (specifically the legacy of foefire map).

Player limit: 15 per team (3 teams of 5 per side).

The map would have 2 keeps on either side of a battlefield. No doors. Keeps will have more than one entrance, both guarded. A front entrance (leading directly towards the center battlefield) and the shortest distance to enemy keep. One or more side or back entrances that allow for splitting and tactical play.

Outside the keep would be a few guards and some rangers/casters on the walls. Map should be big enough that guards don’t aggro into the center battlefield if 2 guilds are fighting in the center (ie can only be used defensively).

Inside the keep should be more guards/rangers/casters and a Guild Lord. Guild Lord is a champion-level mob.

Objective: Kill the enemy Guild Lord before the time limit. If time limit is reached, the team with the most points wins.

Time limit: 15min or 30min.

Points are scored for player kills (say 5 points per kill), npc kills (1 point per kill), and damage done to enemy Guild Lord (say 50 points for damage equal to half his health).

respawn timer: 2min30sec. Dead enemy players will respawn at resurrection shrine inside keep every 2min30sec.

Possible secondary objectives:
=Flags. Not sure how this could work, since flag runner would likely get insta-gibbed. Two options:
-Both keeps get a flag and there is a stand in the middle of the map that gives 10 points per minute held by a given team. Flag runner cannot use skills while holding flag, but can drop it/pick it up. Flag runner is not immune to swiftness/other boons from other characters, but loses all boons/buffs upon picking up a flag (to prevent stacking 2 minutes of swiftness before picking up flag).
-2 orb type objectives on either side of central battlefield, that give 5 or 10 points when succesfully returned to guild lord. Similar to spirit watch. Encourages split play.
== in neither case should the runner get a giant X on their heads.
=Resurrection orb: Can ressurect up to 5 allies within a given area. Respawns every 5min but can only have 1 active. Player can use skills, but if the orb is dropped it returns to spawn location. Orb is dropped on player down.

Sorry for the wall of text, I hope you read this and give feedback

Cheers

i wouldn’t mind having the exact same map, same match system from GW1 ported into GW2.

I think you don’t understand what “GvG” means….

It’s not a mode where entire guilds battle each other, it’s a highly structured game-mode (it was 8v8 in GW1, which should be the absolute highest limit of Players) between two Guilds. It had multiple Maps, objectives, a Ladder and the best games could be observed ingame by the Public.

It is nothing like some ppl out there think; it’s NOT simply a Mode where entire WvW-Style guilds can duke it out.

8v8 would be so different now on the gw1 maps, I imagine something like 1 flag runner, 2 base attackers/defenders/ and 5 in a main battle group. Then different variations of that.

DevO.9854:

8v8 would be so different now on the gw1 maps, I imagine something like 1 flag runner, 2 base attackers/defenders/ and 5 in a main battle group. Then different variations of that.

on the Maps now, I’d say that 8v8 would be too much…. Probably either 5v5 or 6v6 could be good…. on bigger Maps with bigger Nodes and more open Areas around the Nodes, 8v8 could potentially work as well.

Won’t work. You could just rush the enemy lord. Not being able to actually heal makes it impossible to keep the lord alive.
Also, if it’s just a couple “splitters” on lord, you can’t really do much about it except send the equal number back to defend and hope you can kill them. You can’t really send a healer to defend and save the lord.
It won’t work.

Rezz.8019:

Won’t work. You could just rush the enemy lord. Not being able to actually heal makes it impossible to keep the lord alive.
Also, if it’s just a couple “splitters” on lord, you can’t really do much about it except send the equal number back to defend and hope you can kill them. You can’t really send a healer to defend and save the lord.
It won’t work.

Wow, you give up quickly: How about simply making the Lord more tanky? And make it necessary to kill off NPC’s to make him regenerate health slower and have less HP or sth. like that.

Not being able to heal the Lord definitely doesn’t make this game mode obsolete, you jsut have to come up with a solution….. -.-°

PowerBottom.5796:

DevO.9854:

8v8 would be so different now on the gw1 maps, I imagine something like 1 flag runner, 2 base attackers/defenders/ and 5 in a main battle group. Then different variations of that.

on the Maps now, I’d say that 8v8 would be too much…. Probably either 5v5 or 6v6 could be good…. on bigger Maps with bigger Nodes and more open Areas around the Nodes, 8v8 could potentially work as well.

I think you missed where I said the GW1 maps, and not HoH, the gvg maps.

I also agree you can make the lord and supports better to balance this stuff. I would love to see the flag play in gw2 with the death penalty.

PowerBottom.5796:

I think you don’t understand what “GvG” means….

It’s not a mode where entire guilds battle each other, it’s a highly structured game-mode (it was 8v8 in GW1, which should be the absolute highest limit of Players) between two Guilds. It had multiple Maps, objectives, a Ladder and the best games could be observed ingame by the Public.

It is nothing like some ppl out there think; it’s NOT simply a Mode where entire WvW-Style guilds can duke it out.

as someone who played 7000 hours in gw1 with a significant portion of that in gvg, i think i know what gvg is. And gvg in gw2 could have everything you described.

Rezz.8019:

Won’t work. You could just rush the enemy lord. Not being able to actually heal makes it impossible to keep the lord alive.
Also, if it’s just a couple “splitters” on lord, you can’t really do much about it except send the equal number back to defend and hope you can kill them. You can’t really send a healer to defend and save the lord.
It won’t work.

you can’t just rush the guild lord 1) keep is defended with npcs and will take time to kill. you can send less players back than they split to defend while having a number advantage pushing into their base. 2) The lord is a champion level mob that would kill anything less than a coordinated group of 5. 3) I enver said you can’t heal the lord, in fact it should heal out of combat.

Quick Mouse.7635:

PowerBottom.5796:

I think you don’t understand what “GvG” means….

It’s not a mode where entire guilds battle each other, it’s a highly structured game-mode (it was 8v8 in GW1, which should be the absolute highest limit of Players) between two Guilds. It had multiple Maps, objectives, a Ladder and the best games could be observed ingame by the Public.

It is nothing like some ppl out there think; it’s NOT simply a Mode where entire WvW-Style guilds can duke it out.

as someone who played 7000 hours in gw1 with a significant portion of that in gvg, i think i know what gvg is. And gvg in gw2 could have everything you described.

As sm1 that played in Top-20 to Top-50 GvG Teams in the World, I think I know what GvG is as well. ^^’

What you described wouldn’t be anything like GvG, but a mindless, confusing and uncoordinated mess, mostly because of the Number of Players. You simply can’t get higher than 8 per Team in a Game like GW2 (and I can’t think of a concept where more then 8 Players per Team woudl work), when you are trying to go for a balanced and core sPvP Game-type.

Rezz.8019:

Won’t work. You could just rush the enemy lord. Not being able to actually heal makes it impossible to keep the lord alive.
Also, if it’s just a couple “splitters” on lord, you can’t really do much about it except send the equal number back to defend and hope you can kill them. You can’t really send a healer to defend and save the lord.
It won’t work.

I gave an idea here which some players say it sound like GvG, since i don’t play gw1 i didn’t know it similar. But here state a way to make lord impossible to rush ahead in the game.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/An-idea-to-improve-the-current-meta/first#post1895449

Rezz.8019:

Won’t work. You could just rush the enemy lord. Not being able to actually heal makes it impossible to keep the lord alive.
Also, if it’s just a couple “splitters” on lord, you can’t really do much about it except send the equal number back to defend and hope you can kill them. You can’t really send a healer to defend and save the lord.
It won’t work.

I agree unfortunately. Until at least a few targeted healing spells are added to each class, decent organised PvP, let alone GvG is impossible.

I am absolutely not saying we need the trinity, but we do need decent support classes. Currently, healing power is underpowered for just about every class and even if it wasn’t, all healing basically boils down to AoE, which is kind of pathetic.

Tanking with support should remain impossible, but, using your support spells wisely in order to help specific team mates should become more feasible

I’ll be honest, the PvP in GW2 has the potential to be better than GW1 PvP, by quite a large margin.

All they need to do is:

1. Cut down severely on AoE spam – More targeted spells, less AoE and PbAoE

2. Change the condition system such that conditions generally last much longer, are applied less often, are cleansed less often and do more damage per stack.

Coincidentally this would help with lag and would also make the technical problem of having more than 25 stacks of a condition rather moot.

Having 25 stacks of bleed with no cleanse would become an utter death sentence, even more than it is right now. In fact, it should be flat out impossible to stack that many on a target by yourself, no matter your class.

3. Change many passive trait bonuses to active ones (i.e instead of auto cleansing one condition every 10 seconds, you gain a virtue type skill that has the same effect which has a recharge of 10 sec, etc) – We want more control, not less in gameplay.

Add NPC’s to fill up the lack of dedicated healers (in the lordroom + other positions). This makes it hard to just push in with 8 ppl and kill everything, as the opponent-team gets supported and healed there.

Make the Guild-Lord tanky (not as weak as on foefire). So even when all the support-NPC’s are down he can stand against 2 at minimum. And about 30-45 secs to kill with full-team.

Implement second objectives which are that important and can’t be ignored. And not only one, there should be several (flag, buffs, capture points etc.). This will avoid 8v8 zergs.

It could work, but is hardly imaginable in the current PvP-Situation we have.

Quick Mouse.7635:

PowerBottom.5796:

I think you don’t understand what “GvG” means….

It’s not a mode where entire guilds battle each other, it’s a highly structured game-mode (it was 8v8 in GW1, which should be the absolute highest limit of Players) between two Guilds. It had multiple Maps, objectives, a Ladder and the best games could be observed ingame by the Public.

It is nothing like some ppl out there think; it’s NOT simply a Mode where entire WvW-Style guilds can duke it out.

as someone who played 7000 hours in gw1 with a significant portion of that in gvg, i think i know what gvg is. And gvg in gw2 could have everything you described.

that won’t stop me from saying that your post is stupid bro

Paradoxine.8192:

Rezz.8019:

Won’t work. You could just rush the enemy lord. Not being able to actually heal makes it impossible to keep the lord alive.
Also, if it’s just a couple “splitters” on lord, you can’t really do much about it except send the equal number back to defend and hope you can kill them. You can’t really send a healer to defend and save the lord.
It won’t work.

I agree unfortunately. Until at least a few targeted healing spells are added to each class, decent organised PvP, let alone GvG is impossible.

I am absolutely not saying we need the trinity, but we do need decent support classes. Currently, healing power is underpowered for just about every class and even if it wasn’t, all healing basically boils down to AoE, which is kind of pathetic.

Tanking with support should remain impossible, but, using your support spells wisely in order to help specific team mates should become more feasible

I’ll be honest, the PvP in GW2 has the potential to be better than GW1 PvP, by quite a large margin.

All they need to do is:

1. Cut down severely on AoE spam – More targeted spells, less AoE and PbAoE

2. Change the condition system such that conditions generally last much longer, are applied less often, are cleansed less often and do more damage per stack.

Coincidentally this would help with lag and would also make the technical problem of having more than 25 stacks of a condition rather moot.

Having 25 stacks of bleed with no cleanse would become an utter death sentence, even more than it is right now. In fact, it should be flat out impossible to stack that many on a target by yourself, no matter your class.

3. Change many passive trait bonuses to active ones (i.e instead of auto cleansing one condition every 10 seconds, you gain a virtue type skill that has the same effect which has a recharge of 10 sec, etc) – We want more control, not less in gameplay.

well said bro, +1

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Add NPC’s to fill up the lack of dedicated healers (in the lordroom + other positions). This makes it hard to just push in with 8 ppl and kill everything, as the opponent-team gets supported and healed there.

Make the Guild-Lord tanky (not as weak as on foefire). So even when all the support-NPC’s are down he can stand against 2 at minimum. And about 30-45 secs to kill with full-team.

Implement second objectives which are that important and can’t be ignored. And not only one, there should be several (flag, buffs, capture points etc.). This will avoid 8v8 zergs.

It could work, but is hardly imaginable in the current PvP-Situation we have.

splitting wouldn’t make much sense if it takes an entire team 45 secs to down lord(and quite possibly him regening…) and we want to encourage splitting coz otherwise pvp is way too linear, just like conquest atm(tho at least we have secondary objectives).

====> Guild Wars 1 /reinstall

I am really surprised by the negative comments and complete lack of constructive criticism.

If people think that 15v15 is too much, 10v10 (2 teams of 5) is perhaps better?

It is entirely possible to heal others (including guild lord) in this game by dropping a water field and spamming blast finishers. If necessary, healer npc similar to those in gw1 could be added to help keep guild lord up, or the lord could be given a self heal.

Making the guild lord a champion or “purple” level mob would make it near impossible to beat with anything less than 3-5 people.

I think a lot of the negativity is stemming from people’s negative views of WvW. When you enter wvw solo or without voice comm, a lot of it can seem mindless and confusing until you play with organized people on voice comm. Huge 40 v 40 zerg fights can be intensely tactical and organized, utilizing terrain and specific skills.

Watch this organized zerg get wiped repeatedly by Red Guard:

Quick Mouse.7635:

I am really surprised by the negative comments and complete lack of constructive criticism.

If people think that 15v15 is too much, 10v10 (2 teams of 5) is perhaps better?

It is entirely possible to heal others (including guild lord) in this game by dropping a water field and spamming blast finishers. If necessary, healer npc similar to those in gw1 could be added to help keep guild lord up, or the lord could be given a self heal.

Making the guild lord a champion or “purple” level mob would make it near impossible to beat with anything less than 3-5 people.

I think a lot of the negativity is stemming from people’s negative views of WvW. When you enter wvw solo or without voice comm, a lot of it can seem mindless and confusing until you play with organized people on voice comm. Huge 40 v 40 zerg fights can be intensely tactical and organized, utilizing terrain and specific skills.

Watch this organized zerg get wiped repeatedly by Red Guard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai0PwgHT0m4

that’s hardcore organized action right there bro

ps.: 10v10 is 2 teams of 10 players, not 5 :’D

So, guys. This kitten already exists as 25 v 25. The “Targeted Heal” is when you stack up and blast finish. The Guild Lord could be an extremely tough guy like Siegerazer that never regenerates health.

ya except do that with a complex list of skills like gw1 had, instead of the bad list / balance we have in gw2.

to clarify, bad balance doesnt mean some class is op or another is up in this case. bad means that playing the game well isnt playing the game fun.

Was a great idea! I really think ArenaNet have something in theve mind to put in GvG!

GvG with 10vs10 should be awesome, or just 5v5 but need to be in the same guild.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

So, guys. This kitten already exists as 25 v 25. The “Targeted Heal” is when you stack up and blast finish.

When the pressure is on in intense on point gameplay or when you’re fighting down to the last man to keep the Lord up, are you really going to be able to conveniently ball up for some poor mans targeted heal? Consider the following:

Example of where targeted heals are required
Your warrior, after just using his dodges to escape some AoE, blocking shots from a ranger and then using the environment to avoid damage from other enemies, has his self heal on recharge still.

A particularly perceptive thief notices the amount of damage mitigation the warrior just did and decides to jump in, immobilize and burst him down. Now, the warrior sees this coming as he receives the first backstab, instantly yelling on comms for some support.

There is at a maximum, three or four seconds before this warrior gets downed. The other members of his team aren’t immediately at hands reach and besides, they have their hands full with other players. Moving carelessly to his position would draw even more general AoE damage and perhaps attention.

With a single targeted heal skill that heals for say 3500 health, the warrior’s self heal has enough time to recharge and continue play.

On the other hand, with the blast finisher deal, not only must you traverse such that you are almost directly on top of the warrior, you could be crippled and immobilized yourself.

Sure, there are limits to what you can do (lets say every team mate is dazed), but I don’t think that helping a teammate out when he needs it without having to change positions is a huge ask.

Further, staying in one position is next to impossible in GW2 and even organising where you want to set up your blast finish real time over voice comms will be immensely difficult, considering by the time you need it(run out of evades, self heal) , you probably won’t have time to set up something like that.

This is what I mean by the ‘pathetic’ AoE heals in this game, with the exception of water fields and such. The absolute best you’re going to get at the moment is those terrible ‘orb’ heals where they bounce between enemy/ally and surprise surprise, they aren’t just AoE spam.

Well why don’t you just use the waterfields you say you like?
Because using a powerful water field (like the engineer one, I forget the skill name), for the sake of one person, is a waste, except when you are fighting 1v1 on a point away from the team, or something like that. Powerful water fields like that can mean the difference between a total team wipe during an enemy time warp and the ability to soldier on, maybe winning the game as a result.

In closing
There is no good reason not to have targeted heals. Again, I’m not saying we need a skill that heals 10,000 per activation, with a recharge time of 0 seconds, but something sensible would be nice.

pullnointer.1476:

that’s hardcore organized action right there bro

ps.: 10v10 is 2 teams of 10 players, not 5 :’D

I meant each team has 2 partys of 5 for a total of 10 players a side, 20 players in total.

With balanced maps, adequate protection to the guild lord and right mechanics. This can work quite well.

Will definately make being in guilds that focus on organized pvp more viable.

Targetted heals is not a good idea and healing powere is fine where it is, dont try to fix what is not broken. I would be happy with actual Gvg or HA, along with actually making the rank emotes come out of the character rather than a lame flag.

So custom arena doesn’t have enough options to try all of this, but why not give it a best shot with what you have? Do a trial run to see if larger team fights would be fun in SPVP as a first step imo.

I would love to see something like this, or arena deathmatch on small maps (2v2, 3v3, 5v5)

And targeted heals are a bad idea. There are quite a few ways to heal already they would just mess up class balance

piffdaddy.8014:

And targeted heals are a bad idea. There are quite a few ways to heal already they would just mess up class balance

ZilentNight.5089:

Targetted heals is not a good idea and healing powere is fine where it is, dont try to fix what is not broken

Elaborate. Please do tell me how you can heal someone at 1200 range without a water field, reliably.

Besides that, tell me why targeted heals are inherently bad. Just saying “they would mess up class balance” is not an argument. Balance is bad as it is, at the absolute worst they can introduce clearly underpowered skills and buff them as needed.

If your ultimate goal of using some AoE heal is to help a single player, why, pray tell, can’t you just target the player themselves and apply the support directly?

Getting sick of people just blindly accepting status quo. Give me a convincing argument or don’t bother please.