Guild Wars 2

Nueshak.2437:

Those of you using SWTOR as a “balanced” mmo you are absolutely kidding yourselves. Need I even go into when Illum was 1st implemented? Grav-round and tracer missile spammers left unchecked for months until some what slightly rebalanced? Lets not get things twisted here people. Most MMOs have their pros and cons but to say PVP in GW2 is flat out bad is simply not an accurate statement.

/agree

I had two PvP rank 80+ Chars in SWtOR (Shadow and Sage) and the balance in this game was a joke compared to GW2. Actually, comparing SWtOR to GW2 Illustrates perfectly how well designed GW2 is in several Aspects:

1) SWtOR did the “Capture Points-Mode” wrong, ANet did it right: There were no secondary Objects in the SWtOR conquest-mode AND there were Points in the Map, that one Team could get too significantly faster. This resulted in most Teams getting 1 Point for free and a mindless Zergfest in the Middle.
2) Open-PvP was absolutely horrible in SWtOR – on our server, the Imperium was about 4-5 times more people and there was simply no way of getting any daily’s done if you didn’t want to wake up at 4 AM and do them on an empty Map. ANet, brilliant as they are, came up with the 3-factions-design, which is just so smart and would counter a lot of Problems that occur from one side being dominant.
3) The Controls where horrible in SWtOR as well – you couldn’t target anything with your Mouse, because of weird delays/lags and crappy hitboxes, tabbing was bad as well and there were way less skillshots, ground-target skills, no dodging etc. making the controls feel stiff and the gameplay slow compared to GW2.
4) The Support of Bioware was so bad, I’ve sworn to myself never to buy a Bioware-Game again. I was on a dead Server for a loooong time, where it was nearly impossible to play PvP – yet, it took Bioware MONTHS, to implement server-transfers and server-mergers and no global (or at least cross-server PvP) was in sight. And I paid monthly for that crap!

Bioware did one thing right though – Huttball was one of the greatest PvP-Modes I’ve ever seen in a competetive MMO and It would’ve been perfect for e-Sports, because it’s easy to understand (Get Huttball into opposing teams Base → Point), there was a possibility of nice chain-passes and good positioning was instantly rewarded if your team worked together well.

Anet is doing an amazing job with GW2 and it has enormous potential as an e-Sport Title and I couldn’t disagree more with 90% of posts I see in this Thread: IMHO, GW2 is fast, fun, skill-intensive and for such a young game, the balance isn’t too bad as well.

Dondarrion.5041:

The game came out in August…I think there’s room to improve, but raging on a free game that has sPvP, tPvP, and WvWvW at release seems a bit harsh.

Excuse me? The game is not free, it was actually quite expensive. They also sold me a completely unfinished product and I still feel ripped off. Maybe it’s just the WoW mentality and the expectations that games should have HORRIBLE monthly fees, but it’s bad and wrong.
And I think it’s definitely good idea to rage at them, that’s the only way they might ever even consider changing things.
If everyone is quiet and pretending to be happy they can’t know there is a problem and nothing good will ever happen.

Actually I thought eq2 pvp was a lot more fun for the simple fact you could pvp anywhere at anytime, and had a reward system and unique armor sets that you earned with rankings and titles. Now it sucks because it’s old and no one plays it.

This game’s pvp system is dry, very repetitive, and nothing but zerge after zerge of players mindlessly beating killing each other, has 0 skill involved in it, mainly who ever has the most numbers wins a fight, the pve gear is = to pvp gear and takes much less time to get. The only reason I still play this game because it’s free. The maps are horrid, you hardly ever find a solo kill without 20 other people involved, so there is hardly any room to explore you toons potential at all unless you try it in pve or find a way to set up a battleground with you and friends only.

Atlantiscalz.8205:

This game’s pvp system is dry, very repetitive, and nothing but zerge after zerge of players mindlessly beating killing each other, has 0 skill involved in it, mainly who ever has the most numbers wins a fight, the pve gear is = to pvp gear and takes much less time to get. The only reason I still play this game because it’s free. The maps are horrid, you hardly ever find a solo kill without 20 other people involved, so there is hardly any room to explore you toons potential at all unless you try it in pve or find a way to set up a battleground with you and friends only.

Why don’t you play sPvP then? D’you really think that WvW or Hotjoin will every be anything more then mindless zerging?

Players from my Guild that mostly play sPvP have said that they beat like 2-3 times the players in WvW as a small group, because they are all just terribad…. And Hotjoin isn’t better – you get ppl that farm their r40 in hotjoin and actually think that they’re good, when it’s much more likely that they are worse than an r20-player that got his rank from sPvP with full groups only…

That’s by no means a Problem of GW2, but the fact that all good players are in sPvP and that’s how it is in basically every MMO, MOBA etc. – you won’t find much strategy or good players in open PvP or Quickjoin-Modes…

It’s absolutely ridiculous that ppl in here complain about a game as great as GW2, which has clearly the best structured PvP-Mode of any MMO that came out in the last 5+ years and is only not as good as some established games, because it is so young.

The potential and the basic mechanics and engine of GW2 is without a doubt absolutely amazing and I have no doubt in my mind that with a bit of time to implement necessary features, GW2 will be a contender for a great e-Sport Title.

I really feel that ppl in this Thread are just trolling, because it’s mindboggling to me how you can bash a game as great as GW2. And I’ve played tons of games like GW2 in the last few years for their PvP-Mode and I got nothing that came even close to GW2….

urinfamousr.7631:

its because the dev’s lack depth so its seen i the game they made…and since in their minds “its a great game” things dont change. on top of that they dont listen to their community who tell them from beta the issues they have with their games why? because in their minds “its a great game” so u see alot of things go unfixed…

The game will NEVER be massively altered to what we as a community would like it to be because 1 Anet doesnt listen to their customers. they already have our money so nothing we can do about that except NOT give them more when expansions come out.

If you feel u didnt get what you paid for dont give them more in hopes of getting what you wanted the first time you paid.

I dont think that they think this is great game. I think they just dont care. Its worse case scenario and you make game you dont care about. They care about profit and thats too obvious now. They wont do any changes which wont pay off in terms of increased gems purchase and since PvP doesnt bring any real income.. no changes on PvP.

Shame on you Anet.. shame.

OP , i wouldnt rly brag wich classes you player , first of all the one you played were the op class in each game you chose so …..yea. GW2 thow you only have a small amount of abilities & the game has a huge depth , instead of qq get a team, get vent/skyp & start doing paids, if you re that good as you seems to imply, you ll soon face good teams & then you ll see how deep the rabit hole is. Right now you have totally missed the point of pvp in this game, so i rly dont understand where your complains come from, i mean blind ppl cant fly a plane.

Hello

Yeah pvp in GW2 its p bad, i play paids i have beaten good teams and i get beat by good teams (i loose more than i win, im not saying that im awsome im just saying that i know how the game works and what happens arround).

First of all it promotes 1v1 and 2v2 in a game called guild wars … yeah u can send 5 mid and u will loose cuz the other team sended only 2 dudes or maybe 1 and they are back capping and forcing the small figths, wich is cool i like small figths in fact i love em but still its p basic for that the entire game is only that (well tpvp wise).

Yep i played aion too it was a fun game i played it a lot, im not saying it was the best game ever but it was enjoyable. Lets talk about dredgion it was like a pvepvp, 2 roads and 3 parts to meet in the middle while u kill mobs and u could use the mobs to kill other ppl, but in the end was just team fight after team fight (gladis kill clerics, dps kill dps, sorcs cc, clerics well … its not hard to figure out what they do).
In this game is like this u send 1 bunker mid, 1 dude cap home, 2 or 1 go the back way and see if they can get a 2v2 or 1v1 in their point, while the last dude either goes mid or goes arround looking for the necro/roamer/ or help the guy in mid. And thats it then if u win the 2v2s 3v3s u just look from where the 2 or 3 dudes are going out and u just chase em arround.
If for some reason a team figth happens lets say 4v4 or maybe 5v4 cuz well .. mesmers or maybe some1 died. its really bad. yeah obviuosly u got the warrior that get focused and the necro by the sin / warrior, some1 dies pop stab the dude gets sig then the roamer is like f this goes backcap and force the 1v1 and well back to the start.

I think when they were making this game they tougth hey lets make this game like a moba and instead of having lanes lets just have points cuz that what kids want rigth?

maybe i have no idea what im talking about, maybe im mentally disabled but thats how i see things in this game. But i think i just think that even L2 pvp was more advanced than this 1 lol.

I’m not an expert on making games. Heck not even a novice. I have 0 knowledge other than maybe making simple 3D models using C4D. But technically for something to be truly dynamic must it not also, by nature, be complex? How do you build a “dynamic, simple” combat system in the first place? Press 1 for attack and 2 for defense is simple, but not dynamic, and Press “X+A+1+Q+5+22+J” if enemy does action “Y” or just “I+U+9+2” if he does action “X” seems more dynamic but definitely not simple.

The way I see it, a dynamic system has multiple variables and even more solutions to account for any combination of those variables, becoming more complex rather than “simple”. If this is true, then wouldn’t their whole premise for a simple and dynamic combat system be false or just a simply unattainable goal? Am I completely wrong?

Jonny.9370:

I’m not an expert on making games. Heck not even a novice. I have 0 knowledge other than maybe making simple 3D models using C4D. But technically for something to be truly dynamic must it not also, by nature, be complex? How do you build a “dynamic, simple” combat system in the first place? Press 1 for attack and 2 for defense is simple, but not dynamic, and Press “X+A+1+Q+5+22+J” if enemy does action “Y” or just “I+U+9+2” if he does action “X” seems more dynamic but definitely not simple.

The way I see it, a dynamic system has multiple variables and even more solutions to account for any combination of those variables, becoming more complex rather than “simple”. If this is true, then wouldn’t their whole premise for a simple and dynamic combat system be false or just a simply unattainable goal? Am I completely wrong?

I guess what ANet wanted to accomplish was creating a game, that is easy for newer players to understand (the basic concepts), but offers a lot of depth for more experienced players.

It’s true that it’s less demanding in terms of Teamplay than GW1, simply because of the Game-Mode not being 8v8 and the fact that there are no designated Healers. But in Terms of 1v1 or simple In-fight Gamemechanics, it’s almost as Skill-Intensive as Fighting-Games like Street Fighter or Tekken. ^^’

In GW2 and fighting Games both, it’s a lot about dodging and inplementing this mechanic into an MMO alone makes it much more dynamic and Skill-intensive if you want to play well.
GW2 also requires you to adapt your playstyle depending on the Matchup and different Situations and knowing the Matchups properly is a science in itself. Just knowing what to dodge, what to interrupt, when to use important CD’s etc. is incerdibly hard to master.
There are also a lot of Skillshots and Skills that do Bonus-DPS when attacking from behind etc. that movement and anticipating your opponents next move becomes really important, which if also a huge part of basically every fighting game.

In GW1, 1v1, or even 2v2’s were basically decided before the fight started, as 90% of the outcome depended on your builds, there was no dodging, little decent Selfheal on most classes, no real Skillshots, less skills on an individual Character etc.

So in terms of smaller fights, GW2 is much more dynamic and skill-intensive than GW1 and who knows – If ANet implements the GvG-Mode, it could even get way more skill-intensive in Teamfights.

Juan Ignacio.8903:

Yep i played aion too it was a fun game i played it a lot, im not saying it was the best game ever but it was enjoyable. Lets talk about dredgion it was like a pvepvp, 2 roads and 3 parts to meet in the middle while u kill mobs and u could use the mobs to kill other ppl, but in the end was just team fight after team fight (gladis kill clerics, dps kill dps, sorcs cc, clerics well … its not hard to figure out what they do).

Sure Aion was fun, but game was terrible tbh. It was mostly instanced PvE, and they totally threw class balance out of window. because who needs balance in mmorpg anyway? Dredgion was basically PvE instance where you are going to have like 2 team fights at start.

Juan Ignacio.8903:

But i think i just think that even L2 pvp was more advanced than this 1 lol.

Oh right clicking mouse 2 and autoattack is way more advanced than this game for sure.

Nilvio.7941:

Juan Ignacio.8903:

Yep i played aion too it was a fun game i played it a lot, im not saying it was the best game ever but it was enjoyable. Lets talk about dredgion it was like a pvepvp, 2 roads and 3 parts to meet in the middle while u kill mobs and u could use the mobs to kill other ppl, but in the end was just team fight after team fight (gladis kill clerics, dps kill dps, sorcs cc, clerics well … its not hard to figure out what they do).

Sure Aion was fun, but game was terrible tbh. It was mostly instanced PvE, and they totally threw class balance out of window. because who needs balance in mmorpg anyway? Dredgion was basically PvE instance where you are going to have like 2 team fights at start.

Juan Ignacio.8903:

But i think i just think that even L2 pvp was more advanced than this 1 lol.

Oh right clicking mouse 2 and autoattack is way more advanced than this game for sure.

Yeah well acording to the dredgion yea u had teams that just pve and u jsut farm em but then u had good teams that they were just looking for the team figth all the time.
In that case yes dredgion was more advanced than a “tpvp”. Once again im not praising or saying it was the best game.
And the L2 thingy yes i kinda exagerated lol.
Its ok i mean i hope they improve this game, conquest is just bad if not we would have more ppl playing pvp simple as that.

Juan Ignacio.8903:

Hello

Yeah pvp in GW2 its p bad, i play paids i have beaten good teams and i get beat by good teams (i loose more than i win, im not saying that im awsome im just saying that i know how the game works and what happens arround).

First of all it promotes 1v1 and 2v2 in a game called guild wars … yeah u can send 5 mid and u will loose cuz the other team sended only 2 dudes or maybe 1 and they are back capping and forcing the small figths, wich is cool i like small figths in fact i love em but still its p basic for that the entire game is only that (well tpvp wise).

Yep i played aion too it was a fun game i played it a lot, im not saying it was the best game ever but it was enjoyable. Lets talk about dredgion it was like a pvepvp, 2 roads and 3 parts to meet in the middle while u kill mobs and u could use the mobs to kill other ppl, but in the end was just team fight after team fight (gladis kill clerics, dps kill dps, sorcs cc, clerics well … its not hard to figure out what they do).
In this game is like this u send 1 bunker mid, 1 dude cap home, 2 or 1 go the back way and see if they can get a 2v2 or 1v1 in their point, while the last dude either goes mid or goes arround looking for the necro/roamer/ or help the guy in mid. And thats it then if u win the 2v2s 3v3s u just look from where the 2 or 3 dudes are going out and u just chase em arround.
If for some reason a team figth happens lets say 4v4 or maybe 5v4 cuz well .. mesmers or maybe some1 died. its really bad. yeah obviuosly u got the warrior that get focused and the necro by the sin / warrior, some1 dies pop stab the dude gets sig then the roamer is like f this goes backcap and force the 1v1 and well back to the start.

I think when they were making this game they tougth hey lets make this game like a moba and instead of having lanes lets just have points cuz that what kids want rigth?

maybe i have no idea what im talking about, maybe im mentally disabled but thats how i see things in this game. But i think i just think that even L2 pvp was more advanced than this 1 lol.

Looks like you’re missing a proper group vs group fight mode. Same here tbh, I wish they’d just make a seperate game mode that was simply death match or at least something that doesn’t involve splitting up. People may say it’s not fun in GW2, but if people would start speccing for it, I think it could be fun.

Veldan.4637:

Looks like you’re missing a proper group vs group fight mode. Same here tbh, I wish they’d just make a seperate game mode that was simply death match or at least something that doesn’t involve splitting up. People may say it’s not fun in GW2, but if people would start speccing for it, I think it could be fun.

yea that would be fun, but i still think that conquest is way better main game mode. I can see that lots of ppl would enjoy that 5v5 TDM. but im kinda seeing it as a secondary mode, just like all mid in MOBAs.

Game mode is not biggest reason for lack of population in spvp. And with new game mode population would just spike for like 2 weeks, and then its back to this crap

After going back for a free trial to a previous well known star wars centered MMO , played for maybe 30 minutes and said omg how can I alt+f4 faster to log back in gw2. This game has the smoothest controls and gameplay in a long time. Everything is responsive and fast paced. The only real lack in pvp is the game modes , arenas and ofc duels. The PvP in this game has a looong learning curve don’t be fooled by that.

Rezz.8019:

Dondarrion.5041:

The game came out in August…I think there’s room to improve, but raging on a free game that has sPvP, tPvP, and WvWvW at release seems a bit harsh.

Excuse me? The game is not free, it was actually quite expensive. They also sold me a completely unfinished product and I still feel ripped off. Maybe it’s just the WoW mentality and the expectations that games should have HORRIBLE monthly fees, but it’s bad and wrong.
And I think it’s definitely good idea to rage at them, that’s the only way they might ever even consider changing things.
If everyone is quiet and pretending to be happy they can’t know there is a problem and nothing good will ever happen.

Wow was the same price at launch. Plus monthly fee. No WvWvW. No tPvP. The same could be said for just about every other game that has held market appeal for more than 6 months.

Point is, the game is 4 months old. WvWvW changes are scheduled in February, when the game is a whopping 6 months old.

All I’m saying is give it a minute people. Rome (and WoW) wasn’t built in a day, and it certainly wasn’t perfect at launch

This game has the best foundation and potential for varied PvP of any mmo ever released, period.

tl:dr – It’s 4 months old! Changes inc in February.

i know everyone is entitled to their opinions but i’ve gotta comment on the 2 quotes below.

“The learning curve for PvP in this game is incredibly steep.”

“I actually find gw2 pvp the be the deepest combat system ive seen ever in an mmo.”

i came from an mmo that had more options, abilities, customization, depth, dynamic play and learning curves in only one archetype offered than in all of the professions combined here.

it is pretty obvious that combat in this game is balanced around open world pve and is a poor mush up of an mmo and console game.

ignoring gear/stats rift pvp between 2 teams of max rank players was more fun than GW2 and offered more maps/variation, period.

Bring back GW1 PvP, at least that was fun. Guild vs Guild was so much fun. The sPvP in GW2 is very dull. I hate that the builds revolve around only a SINGLE gametype. If they want it to work they need to have multiple gametypes which will drive the builds to be more balanced as most domination style builds will not work well for CTF as an example. The more gametypes there are the better the PvP will become and the issue with everyone running cookie cutter builds will end.

GW1 PvP was better in almost every aspect.

From my experience so far with GW2 PvP it’s mainly an AoE spamfest where you faceroll all your cooldowns and dodge AoE’s only to delay your inevitable death.

All maps are forgettable and the game mode is stale. They should have attributed each map to a specific game mode.

Also, PLEASE ANET bring back Random Arenas for goodness sake. And while you’re at it, Team Arenas too. You left all the staple GW PvP modes OUT in favor of your generic “capture 3 points and hold” mode.

Kakeru.2873:

As the title says, I am severely disappointed with SPVP, TPVP and WvWvW in it’s current state. It is simplistic, extremely repetitive and extremely slow and boring.

I’m played many MMOs over the years, and always loved to PvP, In Aion as my assassin, In Wow as my Druid Cat, in Rift as a bard/assassin…………. the list goes on and on.
Now why I say GW2 has the worst pvp I have ever played it for these 4 reasons.

1: Downed State adds nothing to actual PvP, it was maybe intended as some sort of teamplay mechanic with no holy trinity but instead is just a unbalanced mess. There’s a reason no other PVP game has this horrible mechanic it shouldn’t be in PVP.

2: Limited, VERY limited build variety, GW2 has got to be the most rigid, simplistc game I have played in years when it comes to character building, the only builds seen are bunker guard/eles (i played guard) and Burst ranger/warrior/theif. There is no variation in this game it’s either be built to kill someone in 2 seconds or be built to last longer than 2 seconds.

3: Combat, My main reason why GW2 PVP is the worst i’ve ever played. It’s floaty, shallow and slow. Coming from Aion were, like GW2 an assassin can kill you within a few seconds, in Aion you can actually counter or are actually given the tools to avoid that. You can block spells, Break Aether Hold, Parry, Block attacks, are given situational skills that add depth to combat. Not Gw2 where as a guardian which is based around being a protector, I have 3 blocking skills, and they trigger NOTHING they simply block the next attack and go on cooldown. I don’t get the ability to counter their attack after block or use a skill that can only be used after blocking, no just block and wait for my cool downs to come back.

4: Combat is cooldowns, cooldowns, cooldowns. With this being the such a big aspect of GW2 combat it makes PVP boring and shallow my worry in combat is waiting for my cooldowns, with no conditional skills or abilities like "If stunned, press F6 to push back all foes " the combat is paper thin and simple.

Maybe i’m used to having to use 50+ skills and consider every option when fighting different classes not having the same bunker build that require no chance because it’s so stupidly effective.

Maybe i’m use to actually having to think in combat other than capture a point and hold my ground for the 1000+ time.

It’s funny the devs even stated they wanted to make combat as dynamic and simple as possible because they didn’t want the balancing problem like in GW1 , but not only is the combat simple, boring and slow it’s unbalanced as well.

1. Downstate is fine and adds another layer of strategy to the game.

2. Agree, there is a distinct lack of viable builds but there is a TON of build diversity and we will begin to see that once everything is balanced.

3. I don’t know what you expected from a game balanced around a conquest game mode. You have your standard DPS/Tanks with variations between them. As far as the “depth” you’re talking about, GW2 has the dodge mechanic.. Skills are all VERY situational and some of them can turn the fight in your favor.

4. Isn’t it like that in every MMO? I don’t see how relying on cool downs is an issue.

“Maybe i’m used to having to use 50+ skills and consider every option when fighting different classes not having the same bunker build that require no chance because it’s so stupidly effective.”

You’re right, bunker builds are strong 1v1. That’s the point, they’re supposed to be able to hold a node once you win the fight at that point. They can be killed very easily in around 30 seconds in a 2v1 and if your team isn’t there to support you, you will lose that point.

“Maybe i’m use to actually having to think in combat other than capture a point and hold my ground for the 1000+ time”

You’ve gotta be kidding here. There is tons of thought that goes into combat including targeting, positioning, who to focus, stomping, rezzing, bursting, healing, combo fields…

Leave the balance talk to the best players/top teams and ArenaNet.

Swagger.1459:

i know everyone is entitled to their opinions but i’ve gotta comment on the 2 quotes below.

“The learning curve for PvP in this game is incredibly steep.”

“I actually find gw2 pvp the be the deepest combat system ive seen ever in an mmo.”

i came from an mmo that had more options, abilities, customization, depth, dynamic play and learning curves in only one archetype offered than in all of the professions combined here.

it is pretty obvious that combat in this game is balanced around open world pve and is a poor mush up of an mmo and console game.

Ah yes! I’m sure everyone will agree with you once you state the name of this magical game. Or maybe there is a reason you left it out? This is like choose your own adventure. In my mind it’s Hello Kitty! Maybe Puzzle Pirates?

Stiv.1820:

Swagger.1459:

i know everyone is entitled to their opinions but i’ve gotta comment on the 2 quotes below.

“The learning curve for PvP in this game is incredibly steep.”

“I actually find gw2 pvp the be the deepest combat system ive seen ever in an mmo.”

i came from an mmo that had more options, abilities, customization, depth, dynamic play and learning curves in only one archetype offered than in all of the professions combined here.

it is pretty obvious that combat in this game is balanced around open world pve and is a poor mush up of an mmo and console game.

Ah yes! I’m sure everyone will agree with you once you state the name of this magical game. Or maybe there is a reason you left it out? This is like choose your own adventure. In my mind it’s Hello Kitty! Maybe Puzzle Pirates?

oops i should have said 2 archetypes.

quick count examples…

city of heroes

archetype- controller
9 primary power sets- 81 powers
13 secondary power sets- 117 powers
10 power pool options- 44 powers
9 ancillary/ epic power pools- 50 powers
incarnate abilities- 441

that is 733 total powers to chose from and 292 are individually customizable.

gw2 ranger
38 attacks from weapons
37 skills
60 traits

that is 135 total “powers” to chose from that are globally customized by the type of gear you have.

so as far as “powers”/abilities and such is concerned, 5 combined professions in gw2 matches up with what was offered for only 1 of the 10 core archetypes in coh.

Raytek.6193:

You’ve gotta be kidding here. There is tons of thought that goes into combat including targeting, positioning, who to focus, stomping, rezzing, bursting, healing, combo fields…

Leave the balance talk to the best players/top teams and ArenaNet.

Less thought compared to most other PvP and RvR oriented MMOs (which was the OP point). And the idea you should design the game for a fraction of 1% of the playerbase is just laughable. If you can’t make a game fun and enjoyable for players of different levels AND even different types then the MMO market is not for you? (This game has solo PvE, dungeons, WvW, and PvP for a reason..that’s what MMOs do!)

Swagger.1459:

Stiv.1820:

Swagger.1459:

i know everyone is entitled to their opinions but i’ve gotta comment on the 2 quotes below.

“The learning curve for PvP in this game is incredibly steep.”

“I actually find gw2 pvp the be the deepest combat system ive seen ever in an mmo.”

i came from an mmo that had more options, abilities, customization, depth, dynamic play and learning curves in only one archetype offered than in all of the professions combined here.

it is pretty obvious that combat in this game is balanced around open world pve and is a poor mush up of an mmo and console game.

Ah yes! I’m sure everyone will agree with you once you state the name of this magical game. Or maybe there is a reason you left it out? This is like choose your own adventure. In my mind it’s Hello Kitty! Maybe Puzzle Pirates?

oops i should have said 2 archetypes.

quick count examples…

city of heroes

archetype- controller
9 primary power sets- 81 powers
13 secondary power sets- 117 powers
10 power pool options- 44 powers
9 ancillary/ epic power pools- 50 powers
incarnate abilities- 441

that is 733 total powers to chose from and 292 are individually customizable.

gw2 ranger
38 attacks from weapons
37 skills
60 traits

that is 135 total “powers” to chose from that are globally customized by the type of gear you have.

so as far as “powers”/abilities and such is concerned, 5 combined professions in gw2 matches up with what was offered for only 1 of the 10 core archetypes in coh.

Ok, well you sort of got me. I loved me some CoH/CoV but they didn’t even have PvP when it came out. I re-played it with CoV and got into PvP which was very fast paced and fun but regardless of all the different ways you can combine powers, there were still only a few viable builds per combo. That game always seemed like more of a PvE game to me.

u know what these forums remind me? d3 forums lol i just hope HOPE that yeah … lol

Any game in which a player can be burst down in 2-3 seconds w/o assisting dps is bad design and GW2 is full of such examples. Once your out of dodge rolls thats a possibility until it regens. The problem is made far worse with WVW.

There is no need to assist or even use CC to burst someone down in this game. Its trash pvp with a gem store. Grats if your still playing this garbage.

Godorn.2931:

Any player who player can be burst down in 2-3 seconds w/o assisting dps is bad […]

Fixed.

But to be serious, this will get fun once you know how to instagib people like this. You probably failed in GW2 PvP, and don’t know how to build and play your class properly. Grab berserker’s amulet (or either some heavy condition one), get one trait tree for offense and one for defense. Maximize damage output also by runes and sigils. Now, you should be able to kill someone before they kill you. Being passive is the worst thing you can do.

Getting rid of downstate rally of ALL players from one kill would go a long way to fixing this games pvp.

Xom.9264:

Getting rid of downstate rally of ALL players from one kill would go a long way to fixing this games pvp.

They cant get rid of it the game is designed to be arround that. If they remove that they would have to nerf the entire game like classes not doing burst and some not being that tanky. Its like when people ask for gvgs… they are not going to work here AOE is too strong it would be literally a clusterf——.

I can name all sorts of things that make this game turn boring, but if this is all you know I could see how you enjoy it. I just bought the game thinking it would be more than, kill without consequences. Horrid reward system. No individual player skill really needed at all, open and structure is just a bunch of people clashing into each other mindlessly.

Downed state has it’s problem but the Idea is actually good. It’s here to counter the LOL-burst speccs (Which it does atm).

There are many many builds in the game. Thief has at least 4 strong and viable speccs. Not sure what made you say that. Yes, the current meta heavily favors bunkers and burst speccs but i’m sure it will change.

No idea, I have never played Aion seriously. But I agree. I think it’s very sad to see how everything in GW2 is based around damage I miss “combos” from other MMOs and well timed use of abilities.

EDIT: Nonetheless, the whole package is by far better than what SWTor, Rift or Wow offers.

EDIT2: Tons of abilities =/= hard game. I tried SWTor yesterday again and I realized how easy the game is. I have 4 bars full of abilities and I just got bored. Same rotation every time. Also I missed dodge. Oh god, how much I missed dodge.

GW2 has it’s issues but i’m sure the devs are on it.

I tried PvP just out of curiosity. I thought WvW wasn’t bad and niether was PvP. However, whenever I fought a thief I never won. I don’t know if it’s me but the stealth makes it impossible for me to fight them. I don’t play PvP because of that.

Number 2 is the biggest reason spvp is unpopular. The game play mechanics are based on Moba games, yet you only have 10 builds to pick from that actually work. In whatever your favourite class is you might have two.

It also feels like a time waster because you get zero rewards for it. Could I level alts in pvp, I would spvp to do so.

Juan Ignacio.8903:

Xom.9264:

Getting rid of downstate rally of ALL players from one kill would go a long way to fixing this games pvp.

They cant get rid of it the game is designed to be arround that. If they remove that they would have to nerf the entire game like classes not doing burst and some not being that tanky. Its like when people ask for gvgs… they are not going to work here AOE is too strong it would be literally a clusterf——.

Disagree strongly, rally as it stands now is ruining the game. They made the correct change lowering downstate HP but backed off on it because of pressure from a very very very small group of whats considered for some reason top players. (dont know how a non rated pvp system can have top players but thats another topic).

Lower the downstate HP again or remove multiple rallies off one kill. It would allow for more skill based players running balanced builds to do well and less rez-sig/zerg tactics/numbers edge always coming out ahead.

Remove stealth and stability stomping lower downstate health no multiple rallies will fix alot of problems with this game.

i really like the downed state. it adds an additional layer of strategy to the game. if anything, they need to nerf things like stealth/mist stomps, stealth rezzing, crap like that.

Compare swtor illum endgame wvwvw with gw2, I dont care about spvp or tpvp, think alot of players never spend time in that part of the game. But the wvwvw ofc have roome for improvment still its a fun form of pvp, best one I ever played in world pvp.

/Osicat

thieves and mesmers are causing 50% of the grief for most casuals. the other half is caused by the game mode and lack of balance for it.

I am not sure, one can blame the game for the quality of the people playing it. But that is my major gripe with the game at the moment. Well, it isn’t that I would like everyone to be like me, I have just never experienced a game where people communicate so little in pugs. And considering I bought the game in the vain hope of finding new buddies to game with and have fun with while having fun over vent … urgh … it is just a bit ugly. But I can’t really blame the game for that.

I can’t blame the game for people having tunnelvision, not blowing their cd’s on the right time, not utilizing fields, people not bringing stability, overextending … sigh.

I have some few points, where I think ANet has to do something. My biggest issue is AoE. If AoE was less useful people might actually have to learn to target something, and then pugs of all sorts would either perish or be forced to use more than 1 brain cell. Imo 8vs8 is not even a bad format … 5vs5 (and by this I mean tpvp) is just a format where you won’t accomplish anything by zerging.

In other words, it is the people that are bad, not the format. Especially peoples communications-skills. At least most of the times.

Sorry for the rant … but I just had to get this off my chest.

Man I miss huttball and voidstar.

Calling GW2 the worst PvP ever is a bit of a stretch though.

Things they’ve done right are numerous, the lack of a gear treadmill in PvP is amazing. The progress through tourney rounds I enjoy a lot (even if the maps could be randomised. So sick of niffel.). Active dodging has given us a new depth to combat, as has combo fields.

My only real complaints at present are build diversity and the current bunker/burst meta.

With bug fixes and an evaluation of traits and their usefulness, I’d say it’s easily the best PvP.

Downed state is a counter to spike damage, as otherwise it would be the best play style without a doubt.

Rolyate.6753:

Downed state is a counter to spike damage, as otherwise it would be the best play style without a doubt.

Downed state does not counter spike damage, it’s what allows spike builds to exist. There are multiple effective counters to spike damage, simply raising HP, globally reducing damage by a fixed %, nerfing specific abilities among others. If there were no downed state, it would be necessary to nerf backstab/100 blades/etc to keep them in balance.

Downed state is what permits GW’s short TTK to exist, it’s not a counter, it’s an enabler.

So, you think it’s harder for a thief to kill you straight off with no downed state, than it is for them to down you and then stomp you.

I’m sorry, what?

Rolyate.6753:

So, you think it’s harder for a thief to kill you straight off with no downed state, than it is for them to down you and then stomp you.

I’m sorry, what?

You think its hard for thieves to stomp you.

I’m sorry, what?

I’m far more likely to counter multiple Glass Cannon builds by killing them incredibly fast then downing one, and only having him kill some rabbit near by or someone else downed near me and having him ressed and get back on me with his LOL burst.

Downed state is the most skill-less thing i’ve seen in an MMO to date.

No it’s not the worst PVP MMO ever, certainly not. But it’s certainly not the best either. I’d rate DAOC, Rift, GW1 and WOW higher than GW2, in roughly that order.

What kills GW2 PVP is that the skill and trait system is a total disappointment. There is not nearly enough build/skill diversity. Considering this was the shining jewel in the first game it’s hard to fathom how they could have dropped the ball so badly here.

Downed state is a massive step backwards as well. Too much effort wasted on underwater, downed and environmental skills IMO.

Rolyate.6753:

So, you think it’s harder for a thief to kill you straight off with no downed state, than it is for them to down you and then stomp you.

No, you’ve missed the point. The point is that if there were no downed state, that thieves (and burst skills in general) would never have been given the burst they have in the first place, because the TTK would be too short.

I always feel confused when people make posts comparing GW2 to a game they feel is absolutely perfect. Why not play the game you love so much? If GW2 was to match it’s exact play-style wouldn’t it just be the same thing as said-game?

urinfamousr.7631:

are u on crack? better pvp than any mmo wow . if u call 3 shotting people and zerging pvp then yeah best kitten out there…

Have to wonder if you have played PvP in the other MMOs at all.

mjharrison.3209:

No it’s not the worst PVP MMO ever, certainly not. But it’s certainly not the best either. I’d rate DAOC, Rift, GW1 and WOW higher than GW2, in roughly that order.

What kills GW2 PVP is that the skill and trait system is a total disappointment. There is not nearly enough build/skill diversity. Considering this was the shining jewel in the first game it’s hard to fathom how they could have dropped the ball so badly here.

Downed state is a massive step backwards as well. Too much effort wasted on underwater, downed and environmental skills IMO.

Not sure how someone puts WoW PvP above GW2….

WoW PvP is and has always been a joke.

GW2 PvP isn’t perfect, no, it’s far from it. But the game is only a few months old now. If you expect it to have the polish that older MMOs do now then you’re horribly mistaken. There needs to be more map styles, build diversity, and quite a few traits/weapon sets need to be tweaked in order to become more useful, yes. But that’s not something we’re going to see on release

It’s going to take time before they fix everything to be perfect, but that’s sort of the beauty of this game. There is no subscription, so there’s really no obligation to play the game. If you enjoy it, play the game. If you don’t? Go play something else.

P.S. To those who posted that other games did such and such right? You may want to go take a look at those games now. Going free to play because they weren’t making money off of their subscriptions isn’t exactly backing you up.

The original post is full of impatience and subjective value judgment.

MMO’s are inherently imbalanced at launch and usually take at least 8 months to even begin to approach it due to the inherent complexity. The devs are simply no match for players in terms of finding and exploiting ability synergy.

The main issues I see are as follows:

1 – glass cannon builds need to be toned down. People usually don’t bunker unless compelled. The consensus for most is that the only gameplay less fun than bunker specs hitting like wet noodles would be being destroyed before you can react. Once glass cannons are no longer able to do this, many people pidgeon-holed into bunker builds will branch out into others, and you will see more build variety.

2 – utility skills need a major look. Right now people feel compelled to stock condition removal, stun breaks, and stability, leaving the rest to the dustbin, because these are absolute necessities in both pvp and pve. (stability might not be as needed).
If they could build these basics into your toon some other way (like it is with a properly traited ele), then spice up the others (particularly signets and mantras, which are beyond meh), then some real variety will pop up there.

Both of these require one thing: TIME

They have to iron out the major bugs while also churning out content. Once the bugs have died down they will be able to look at the signets issue. The burst issue they’re already looking at, though I’m not very satisfied with their answer on thieves. Thieves are simply too survivable for their current damage. Mesmers are just as slippery and were nerfed to the ground, so why the double-standard?