Guild Wars 2

As the title suggests, the current metagame can be described with this single sentence :
Condi Spam vs Condi cleanse, there is no other way to play the game if you intend to have fun ( not necessarily winning )

You are basically forced to load your build with condi cleanse after condi cleanse because you literally get swamped by condis from all directions : condi berseker, condi chrono, condi reaper and additional condis from scrapper with elixir gun, druid etc etc

The build diversity is at an all time low and I see no other solution other than hard resets, no nerfs, we need resets on the buffs given to condis, too easy to apply, too ready available.

Condi dmg has obviously superseded power dmg in this game, it’s very easy to reach optimal optimal efficiency with condi dmg ( dmg/sustain ) with far less drawbacks respect to power builds

It has been almost one year since we received this post from Jon Peter

Just getting these out there so we know we are all in agreement:
1) Conditions seem a bit strong
2) World bosses are currently too easy
3) There are some bugged skills and traits
4) There are some overpowered builds
We won’t fix it all at once but these are four large topics we are talking about. In the meantime keep the feedback and bug reports coming, and I guess farm up some world bosses. We are dedicating time towards these issues and are intending to resolve them as quickly as possible. As we have said before, the live environment differs too greatly from anything we can reliably simulate internally so big changes like today’s build will cause things to sometimes change at an alarming rateTM.
Thanks for your patience,
Jon

Nobody arguing that condis should be strong but given the fact that condi users are always notoriously tanky ( to allow condi dmg to reach maximum efficiency), we can’t have a situation where people can burst with condis

We’re not talking anymore about pressure, here we’re talking about a sudden overload of dmg conditions +control conditions in a single instance, add to this tanky amulets that allow the user to reach high survivability and high condition dmg …and you have a recipe for disaster

Still no fixes in sight, why is that?

you know that the current two condi classes are reaper and mesmer. If warrior is left out because considdert to weak at the moment this is two out of seven classes with condi.
Of course this is high level and mostly meta near builds. If we further skip DH and thief it is 2:4 but maybe this is not aplicable in “Normal” Devisions where especially DH is very common. This is hardly a condi meta.
But i agree you need cleanse. The presence of those reapers make it neccessary. They spam condies and kill you quite merciless if you have no condi defence. One or more reapers in practically every game makes the condi “Meta”…..
And yes build diversity is abyssal low …

That’s untrue really, I’m talking about normal pvp ( like ranked/unranked ) not ESL matches of which I don’t care, in normal pvp you do face several teams that include condi reaper/chrono and berseker and as I stated , these are the main offenders, the rest add only salt to the injury

It’s not a matter of adding condi cleanse, we’ve reached a point where unless your build it’s stacked with condi clear, there is very little you can do.

The game mode facilitate the condi application, as 80% of skills applying condis are aoe on short CD. The enemy can sit on all day on the point filling the area with aoe that apply several condis on you at once

OP overextended his argument a lot to include Condi War, Scrapper E-Gun conditions, and Druid conditions,

Really it’s just Mesmer and Necros now are the least effort to power ratio combo for casual play.

Throw in some Tempest protection spam, and would be attackers melt to condition spam far faster than even really strong focus fire can work.

What would you say happens when you fill your build with condi-clears? Does it essentially make you unkillable through condi’s, or do they still get through?

Razor.9872:

What would you say happens when you fill your build with condi-clears? Does it essentially make you unkillable through condi’s, or do they still get through?

They still get through. All cleanses are on longer cooldowns than condi application. The idea that someone should be able to cleanse 100% of condi’s is ridiculous; condi’s would be useless if that were the case.

Razor.9872:

What would you say happens when you fill your build with condi-clears? Does it essentially make you unkillable through condi’s, or do they still get through?

Depends on class.
A power rev could take every possible cleanse and still get screwed.
A ele could take every possible cleanse and would never die to a condi class.

Also when you mean “do they still get through” do you mean “a condi managed to appear” or do you mean “got overloaded and died from condi.” The former is unavoidable, the latter is completely avoidable.

Supreme.3164:

Condi dmg has obviously superseded power dmg in this game,

You clearly have never bothered to check the damage taken statistics at the end of a match.

I have never at any point had a match where I took more condi damage than direct damage.

Seems like an overbearing power meta to me. After every match nearly 70% of the damage i’ve taken is from power damage. Of the top 11 meta builds 8 are power based and 3 are condition based.

Do you have any actual evidence that conditions are overbearing or did you just build to kill power specs and not condition specs?

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Do you have any actual evidence that conditions are overbearing or did you just build to kill power specs and not condition specs?

I think it’s less of a build problem and more of a perception problem.

When people talk about power builds they always discuss specific abilities. I.e rev sword2 threads.

When people talk about condi builds they usually just lump all condi builds together and make sweeping generalizations.

Razor.9872:

What would you say happens when you fill your build with condi-clears? Does it essentially make you unkillable through condi’s, or do they still get through?

Your overall dmg reaches bottom level as on some classes, condi clears are tied to a specific traitline devoid of any dmg modifier, this push one side constantly on the defensive without much chance for retaliation .

In a more balanced situation, a power build that faces a condi one, would have windows of opportunities to strike and put some pressure back. In a balanced situation the condi build would rely on innate sustain and time to whittle down the power spec, this one will use the superior dmg to kill the condi build before the time is up.

Atm we don’t have a balanced situation because while the power build sacrifice sustain for dmg, the condi build not only maintain the sustain but also possess a dmg level comparable ( if not superior ) to the power spec and can be applied more easily and more often.

Basically condition specs were yes supposed to have more sustain than power spec, but that extra sustain was supposed to come at the expense of frontload dmg.

Most of the meta is power damage, with only necro and mesmer having decent condi builds in pvp. Berserker, at least from my experience in diamond/legend is almost nonexistent and conditions from Engi E-gun hardly do any damage when most of them are running marauder/paladins amulet.

Tanky builds are not limited to condi specs, Scrappers and Revs also have over the top sustain on marauder builds.

I do agree that chill dmg should be changed so that it only does 50% on targets above half HP again, and Anet really should take off the boon corrupt on scepter 1, but considering boon corrupt and conditions are the main things necro is taken to pvp for, it should still be viable, its not like we do much else.

Quaman.9167:

…

I do agree that chill dmg should be changed so that it only does 50% on targets above half HP again, and Anet really should take off the boon corrupt on scepter 1, but considering boon corrupt and conditions are the main things necro is taken to pvp for, it should still be viable, its not like we do much else.

Spot on.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Seems like an overbearing power meta to me. After every match nearly 70% of the damage i’ve taken is from power damage. Of the top 11 meta builds 8 are power based and 3 are condition based.

Do you have any actual evidence that conditions are overbearing or did you just build to kill power specs and not condition specs?

Both the evidences you listed are not realistic. If 11 meta builds were evenly represented then you may have some kind of comparison, but OP is talking about casual ranked play where it’s necro spam and common Condi Mesmers too, due to the win rates associated with them. They’re not too over the top in competitive play, but the pug-busting strength of these condi builds are what we’re talking about here. It’s not an argument to how there are more condition builds than power.

Condition builds also don’t do 100% condition damage, they can deal as much as 40% of their output as power damage. So don’t take the 70% of damage received being power damage as an indication of what builds are dominant, either.

Supreme.3164:

Razor.9872:

What would you say happens when you fill your build with condi-clears? Does it essentially make you unkillable through condi’s, or do they still get through?

Your overall dmg reaches bottom level as on some classes, condi clears are tied to a specific traitline devoid of any dmg modifier, this push one side constantly on the defensive without much chance for retaliation .

In a more balanced situation, a power build that faces a condi one, would have windows of opportunities to strike and put some pressure back. In a balanced situation the condi build would rely on innate sustain and time to whittle down the power spec, this one will use the superior dmg to kill the condi build before the time is up.

Atm we don’t have a balanced situation because while the power build sacrifice sustain for dmg, the condi build not only maintain the sustain but also possess a dmg level comparable ( if not superior ) to the power spec and can be applied more easily and more often.

Basically condition specs were yes supposed to have more sustain than power spec, but that extra sustain was supposed to come at the expense of frontload dmg.

If all power builds that sacrifice defense for more bursty dps were designed to kill the sustain of condi builds, how do you see condi builds still being relevant in a team?

I may have worded this wrong…
(Just gathering ideas)

Crinn.7864:

Razor.9872:

What would you say happens when you fill your build with condi-clears? Does it essentially make you unkillable through condi’s, or do they still get through?

Depends on class.
A power rev could take every possible cleanse and still get screwed.
A ele could take every possible cleanse and would never die to a condi class.

Also when you mean “do they still get through” do you mean “a condi managed to appear” or do you mean “got overloaded and died from condi.” The former is unavoidable, the latter is completely avoidable.

I meant the later.

As i said up to ruby you have 1-3 reaper against you in every match …. Then add a mesmer sometimes. You face an average of two condi players (necro mesmer) with necro far more then mes. The warrior is already rare in ruby.

Quaman.9167:

Most of the meta is power damage, with only necro and mesmer having decent condi builds in pvp. Berserker, at least from my experience in diamond/legend is almost nonexistent and conditions from Engi E-gun hardly do any damage when most of them are running marauder/paladins amulet.

Tanky builds are not limited to condi specs, Scrappers and Revs also have over the top sustain on marauder builds.

I do agree that chill dmg should be changed so that it only does 50% on targets above half HP again, and Anet really should take off the boon corrupt on scepter 1, but considering boon corrupt and conditions are the main things necro is taken to pvp for, it should still be viable, its not like we do much else.

The problem is not the dmg…but the quantity, with so many cover condis, it’s impossible to get rid of the specific dmg conditioning , that’s why I’ve added elixir gun scrapper, during a teamfight you get swamped by dmg condis +cover condis where your condi clear atm clear 2 condis every 20s for each skill

People don’t see the whole picture, you can’t talk always about ideal scenario where your team is made up of top notch players that follow specific tactics.

I don’t think anybody care whether or not turret engi was neutralized easily at esl level, it was clear that they were problematic for the rest of the game.

Same story is now, you don’t get esl players in your team, you get average players and we’re talking about 90% of the playerbase

At this level you will see double condi chrono +double reaper +tempest of rev, the effort required to play this comp is much lower respect to the rest and here lies the problem, the effort required to play efficiently these builds at normal level..it’s too low

Going to have to disagree with OP. There are only two, maybe three builds in play now that use Marauders or Viper amulets. Those are the only amulets that define a true condition build. The only two classes that utilize those builds which are necro and mesmer. However, since they are always found in PvP, you have to build around facing them (no templates). So you are forced to bring condition clear. However, there are also a ton of paladin classes which means you ALSO have to bring skills that give you protection. However I fail to see threads complaining about having to bring that boon.

The issue isn’t really conditions themselves. It really is a solo queue issue. If you are able to bring the right classes and builds to a match, you can forgo the clear if you work well with someone who can do area clear. However, since in solo queue you can’t be sure AND we don’t have templates, you are forced to build around it. I really don’t see anything wrong with the meta at the moment in terms of OP’s question. I do still feel that condition/power shouldn’t be a primary stat with both defensive stats but that’s another topic.

Chaith.8256:

OP is talking about casual ranked play where it’s necro spam and common Condi Mesmers too, due to the win rates associated with them. They’re not too over the top in competitive play, but the pug-busting strength of these condi builds are what we’re talking about here. It’s not an argument to how there are more condition builds than power.

Yeah but a lot of the popularity of those builds in pugland is built on perceptions born from anecdotes.
The problem with ranked is that people don’t like to take risks when their pips are on the line. So people stack the “safe bet” classes. There are probably classes just as good at pug-stomping as necros, but nobody wants to stick their neck out far enough to experiment.

Condition builds also don’t do 100% condition damage, they can deal as much as 40% of their output as power damage. So don’t take the 70% of damage received being power damage as an indication of what builds are dominant, either.

Right, but the fact that condi builds aren’t even pure condi throws a wretch in the OP’s position, since most of his arguments are built around the idea that conditions in general are OP. If condi builds have to augment their condi damage with power, but power builds don’t augment their damage with condi, then that leads to the obvious conclusion that condi damage is less potent.

Which brings me back to my earlier point about why on earth do people always make sweeping generalizations when talking about condi builds, but don’t when talking about power builds.

Disagree with the OP also.

We’re in a bruiser-power meta, not a condi one.

Supreme.3164:

condi clears are tied to a specific traitline devoid of any dmg modifier,

But this is true for power defensives too. If you look at the spec trees you’ll notice that each tree is themed towards something, condi clears typically falling under the support/utility tree.

Every class’s core specializations follow this pattern.
1 defense oriented spec
1 condi oriented spec
1 power oriented spec
1 class mechanic spec
1 support/utility spec
and then the elite
The one exception to the above rule is Guardians which seem to not have a dedicated power spec (elite not counted) but rather a extra support spec, Guardians also seem to have random condi focused traits wandering around in otherwise non-condi specializations.

Condi clears are typically focused in the support/utility spec, although not always.

Crinn.7864:

Chaith.8256:

OP is talking about casual ranked play where it’s necro spam and common Condi Mesmers too, due to the win rates associated with them. They’re not too over the top in competitive play, but the pug-busting strength of these condi builds are what we’re talking about here. It’s not an argument to how there are more condition builds than power.

Yeah but a lot of the popularity of those builds in pugland is built on perceptions born from anecdotes.
The problem with ranked is that people don’t like to take risks when their pips are on the line. So people stack the “safe bet” classes. There are probably classes just as good at pug-stomping as necros, but nobody wants to stick their neck out far enough to experiment.

Condition builds also don’t do 100% condition damage, they can deal as much as 40% of their output as power damage. So don’t take the 70% of damage received being power damage as an indication of what builds are dominant, either.

Right, but the fact that condi builds aren’t even pure condi throws a wretch in the OP’s position, since most of his arguments are built around the idea that conditions in general are OP. If condi builds have to augment their condi damage with power, but power builds don’t augment their damage with condi, then that leads to the obvious conclusion that condi damage is less potent.

Which brings me back to my earlier point about why on earth do people always make sweeping generalizations when talking about condi builds, but don’t when talking about power builds.

Point 1: yes you’re right stating that people could run something more..“customized” and I’m sure we’d get better results, but the popular belief is that “meta is life”, therefore people will stick to esl oriented builds where pug oriented ones would be much better. Furthermore in the past we seen how meta builds were nerfed/buffed regardless of what it was being used against them..don’t see why this time should be different

Point 2: I’ve specifically said that condi dmg normally is used to deliver an overall higher dmg respect to direct dmg and that’s fine, the problem start when the time factor is no more required to deliver that dmg, condi builds are now capable of frontload dmg which was supposed to be the main benefit of direct dmg build that sacrificed sustain to obtain it

Supreme.3164:

condi builds are now capable of frontload dmg which was supposed to be the main benefit of direct dmg build that sacrificed sustain to obtain it

I would say that condi builds are less frontloaded thant they used to be.

We could go back to pre-HoT where we had p/p engis and burn guardians that would put 12 stacks of burn on you in 2 seconds flat if you want to talk about frontloaded condi builds.

The dominant condi builds nowadays are more focused on sustained DPS output over burst. Reaper in particular has mediocre burst but has amazing cleave potential.

From my point of view, its mostly reapers and mesmers that force other builds to play bunker. I’d love to play something besides healbot tempest but its the only real affective build vs condi stacked teams. I think the amount of condis heals and damage reduction from various classes is what makes this meta the way it is.

Saiyan.1704:

Disagree with the OP also.

We’re in a bruiser-power meta, not a condi one.

Yes and no. I’ve heard that Reapers are incredibly popular in the lower division due to their incredibly low skill-floor. You can’t really go that wrong on a reaper compared to most other classes.
However, in the higher divisions. Scrappers and Revenants dictate the pace of the game far more than Reapers due to the Versitility and Mobility they have.
Mesmer is also a really potent sidepoint contester.
This leaves us with Eles, Dh’s, Thieves and Druids. Druids fits kinda good into the power bruiser phrase, but I wouldnt say the rest do.

This means there are currently 3 builds fitting into the powerbased bruiser catagory.
2 builds fitting into the condition brusier type.
Ele on healbot duty and Guardian + Thief on the old glass power builds.
I’d say we have a pretty well-rounded metagame considering the build diversity is absolutly abyssmal.

Chaith.8256:

Condition builds also don’t do 100% condition damage, they can deal as much as 40% of their output as power damage. So don’t take the 70% of damage received being power damage as an indication of what builds are dominant, either.

I think he meant the nature of the damage, condi builds are more like hybrid builds and so just part of the condi metabuilds damage actually comes from condis. Without the pwer damag the builds would be way more weak and so his reasons about how power is still quite prevalent.

Actually, the condition issues had to do with PvE where burning was making Teq too easy. In PvP, the biggest condition problem at the time was the burning that a d/d ele could churn out. Both of those have been adjusted.

It’s really an issue of reaper and chrono…. I don’t think reaper is in a bad spot, cuz if you actually wanna survive in teamfights, you won’t be able to take many boon-conversions as utility (like signet of locust+trait or corrupt boon, which are the ones that do a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of “burst condition damage”).

On the Mesmer, the biggest Problem is IMHO Moa, which is just a dumb skill. Also, retaining Illusions after a shatter is a bit too easy with Illusionary reversion and chronophantasm, I can just press F1-F4 and seem to always have 2+ illusions….

There’s no need whatsoever for a big nerf to conditions in general, nor a buff to condi-cleanse.

Deagle.7531:

I think developer team changed so much after game release, they have no logic for a while(for pvp ballance). They made condi damage stronger for pve. First they made burning stackable before HoT, then elite specs made the pvp seriously unbalanced. Its still playable but not fun as old times.
Here is my balance suggests

1-logic; single target damage > aoe damage
Single target skills must be more effective(current state is not), necro’s spamming aoe middle of the node and hits so many people without targeted, and other classes has so many aoe, while 4vs4 this is become aoe a spam fest without player skill. Buff the single target skills, players shouldn’t be died for a aoe spam. Its must be landed by acual player skills combo’s an such. And the aoe traps are annoying, im not saying that traps are op, but.. I don’t like it

2-logic; power dmg > passive damage(condi’s)
Game has massive balance issues when they made burning stackable, warriors and thiefs are not viable becouse of that. Problem is not that condi’s are op. Its spam easily. You can evade, you can block, but eventually hits you hard in team fights. mesmer spam f1 to f4 then reset and again spam f1 to f4, block and distortion stupid amount of time then spam condi’s again. necro’s has aoe condi pressure(which is wrong), hits everything near, so many type of conditions, uneven chill damage, insane survivability, -rev’s has low cooldown condi aoe Spam and spam, eventually people dies, this shouldnt be like that, it must be player vs player, i mean player skill must be more imortant than the passive dmg.

3-logic; harder landed skills > easily landed skills
we need warriors in this game and thiefs, we need to see player skills, not crap of passive dmg/deffense aoe kittening.

thats why i think condi’s needs to nerf a bit. ^^ sorry for my bad english.

I approve. Condition should be a aide of power dmg. All porblems are come from RAID. RAID make Healing , Many AOE , Condition stack in sec, Many block…. make old builds and dodge become a joke in HoT, make Heal Tank build in PVP, make the build FIX , make the game no Accuracy , make the match BORING ,make ppls live PVP.

PLS DON’T GIVE US A =TANK HEAL DPS= PVP !

Supreme.3164:

As the title suggests, the current metagame can be described with this single sentence :
Condi Spam vs Condi cleanse, there is no other way to play the game if you intend to have fun ( not necessarily winning )

You are basically forced to load your build with condi cleanse after condi cleanse because you literally get swamped by condis from all directions : condi berseker, condi chrono, condi reaper and additional condis from scrapper with elixir gun, druid etc etc

The build diversity is at an all time low and I see no other solution other than hard resets, no nerfs, we need resets on the buffs given to condis, too easy to apply, too ready available.

Condi dmg has obviously superseded power dmg in this game, it’s very easy to reach optimal optimal efficiency with condi dmg ( dmg/sustain ) with far less drawbacks respect to power builds

It has been almost one year since we received this post from Jon Peter

Just getting these out there so we know we are all in agreement:
1) Conditions seem a bit strong
2) World bosses are currently too easy
3) There are some bugged skills and traits
4) There are some overpowered builds
We won’t fix it all at once but these are four large topics we are talking about. In the meantime keep the feedback and bug reports coming, and I guess farm up some world bosses. We are dedicating time towards these issues and are intending to resolve them as quickly as possible. As we have said before, the live environment differs too greatly from anything we can reliably simulate internally so big changes like today’s build will cause things to sometimes change at an alarming rateTM.
Thanks for your patience,
Jon

Nobody arguing that condis should be strong but given the fact that condi users are always notoriously tanky ( to allow condi dmg to reach maximum efficiency), we can’t have a situation where people can burst with condis

We’re not talking anymore about pressure, here we’re talking about a sudden overload of dmg conditions +control conditions in a single instance, add to this tanky amulets that allow the user to reach high survivability and high condition dmg …and you have a recipe for disaster

Still no fixes in sight, why is that?

Yup. Players have been saying this from the beginning.

Would be nice if the devs started to balance “things” for pvp (wvw and spvp) and pve separately.

“condi berseker, condi chrono, condi reaper and additional condis from scrapper with elixir gun, druid etc etc”

Condi Berserker? I’ve seen about 2 of those (running Carrion amulet, which is hybridy, not pure condi like Wanderer or Rabid would be), in over 100 games.
Condi Chrono, sure, those are abundant.
Condi Reaper, sure, those are abundant.
Condis from scrapper? What? Going from Amber to Legend, I haven’t seen one condi scrapper.
Condi from Druid. What? There’s condi druids?

I feel like you dislike condis, which is fine… but you can’t just bring out every random condi build out there and say “omg condis are overwhelming” just to strengthen your point. In a given match, you’ll have a team composition which goes something like this:
-Reaper
-Chrono
-Tempest
-Reve
-Druid/Scrapper

You got 2 condi builds in there (which often run Mercenary, which is sort of hybridy and not pure condi), you got a support bunker, and you got 2 power builds. What am I missing here? 2 condi, 2 power.

MethaneGas.8357:

“condi berseker, condi chrono, condi reaper and additional condis from scrapper with elixir gun, druid etc etc”

Condi Berserker? I’ve seen about 2 of those (running Carrion amulet, which is hybridy, not pure condi like Wanderer or Rabid would be), in over 100 games.
Condi Chrono, sure, those are abundant.
Condi Reaper, sure, those are abundant.
Condis from scrapper? What? Going from Amber to Legend, I haven’t seen one condi scrapper.
Condi from Druid. What? There’s condi druids?

I feel like you dislike condis, which is fine… but you can’t just bring out every random condi build out there and say “omg condis are overwhelming” just to strengthen your point. In a given match, you’ll have a team composition which goes something like this:
-Reaper
-Chrono
-Tempest
-Reve
-Druid/Scrapper

You got 2 condi builds in there (which often run Mercenary, which is sort of hybridy and not pure condi), you got a support bunker, and you got 2 power builds. What am I missing here? 2 condi, 2 power.

The condition and control systems on the competitive side of the game are not good or healthy. Things that work in pve do not translate well to pvp at times, and cc is only one of them.

The devs have discussed balancing between the two sides of the game, but they have chosen not to yet. I believe they should because professions and combat are central to almost everything in this game and deserve equal attention, development and maintenance.

Chaith.8256:

OP overextended his argument a lot to include Condi War, Scrapper E-Gun conditions, and Druid conditions,

Really it’s just Mesmer and Necros now are the least effort to power ratio combo for casual play.

Throw in some Tempest protection spam, and would be attackers melt to condition spam far faster than even really strong focus fire can work.

things broken about scrapper:

• Hammer: damage has to be reduced across the board drastically (-25% is the minimum here, not including a possible nerf to Perfectly Weighted), specifically on Static Shield and Electrowhirl. Defensive skills should not be outputting damage as strong as Backstab.
• Rocket Leap has to be reduced to 1 leap finisher; the 3x leap combined with Healing Turret and Elixir Gun is completely overkill.
• Sneak Gyro has to be given a cast time. there is no reason why this is usable while CC’d. It is not a stunbreak.
• Perfectly Weighted: either the stability has to go or the damage modifier. alternatively, reduce both to 1 sec of stability (same as Thief’s old Acrobatic GM trait that gave stab on revealed) and 5% damage increase.
• Slick Shoes is horribly designed and has little to no risk on scrapper as is. either make it interruptible and or increase the CD to 60sec. might need to change how the knockdown works itself though, getting permanently locked down by something as mindless as Slick Shoes is obnoxious and cancerous; especially when it eats through stability easily.

elixir gun is only overpowered because of Hammer; engineer is designed to only be efficient with smart management of kits/utils to supplement weapon skills, however Hammer (in conjunction with the crazy amount of passive, mindless traits found in both Alchemy and Scrapper lines) completely negates this by being completely capable of self-sustain in any situation, leaving them free to pick utility skills like elixir gun, slick shoes, and gyros; skills they otherwise shouldn’t be able to without suffering performance loss.

Mercenary Necro/Mesmer is awful to play against, nobody enjoys it in the slightest because it’s ridiculously easy to play and drastically overrewards- Scrapper is literally the exact same thing but power oriented.

lets not have the pot calling the kettle black here.

sinject.4607:

Chaith.8256:

OP overextended his argument a lot to include Condi War, Scrapper E-Gun conditions, and Druid conditions,

Really it’s just Mesmer and Necros now are the least effort to power ratio combo for casual play.

Throw in some Tempest protection spam, and would be attackers melt to condition spam far faster than even really strong focus fire can work.

things broken about scrapper:

• Hammer: damage has to be reduced across the board drastically (-25% is the minimum here, not including a possible nerf to Perfectly Weighted), specifically on Static Shield and Electrowhirl. Defensive skills should not be outputting damage as strong as Backstab.
• Rocket Leap has to be reduced to 1 leap finisher; the 3x leap combined with Healing Turret and Elixir Gun is completely overkill.
• Sneak Gyro has to be given a cast time. there is no reason why this is usable while CC’d. It is not a stunbreak.
• Perfectly Weighted: either the stability has to go or the damage modifier. alternatively, reduce both to 1 sec of stability (same as Thief’s old Acrobatic GM trait that gave stab on revealed) and 5% damage increase.
• Slick Shoes is horribly designed and has little to no risk on scrapper as is. either make it interruptible and or increase the CD to 60sec. might need to change how the knockdown works itself though, getting permanently locked down by something as mindless as Slick Shoes is obnoxious and cancerous; especially when it eats through stability easily.

elixir gun is only overpowered because of Hammer; engineer is designed to only be efficient with smart management of kits/utils to supplement weapon skills, however Hammer (in conjunction with the crazy amount of passive, mindless traits found in both Alchemy and Scrapper lines) completely negates this by being completely capable of self-sustain in any situation, leaving them free to pick utility skills like elixir gun, slick shoes, and gyros; skills they otherwise shouldn’t be able to without suffering performance loss.

Mercenary Necro/Mesmer is awful to play against, nobody enjoys it in the slightest because it’s ridiculously easy to play and drastically overrewards- Scrapper is literally the exact same thing but power oriented.

lets not have the pot calling the kettle black here.

my only problem with slick shoes is it knocks me down even when i dont move