Guild Wars 2

A dinamic, fast pace combat where split second life/death decisions can be made, we can’t ask for anything more in a MMO.

Those who are complaining are those unable to leave the old habits from other MMO, where they could stand and spamm the same rotation over and over again while somebody else heal them.

Well here you’re master of your own life that you like it or not, you can have little of much larger impact during a fight, accordingly to the way you want to set up.

I welcome professions like thieves and mesmers which screw you over if you lack attention, after all this a game with an active combat system, so don’t expect you can go strolling around without any concern.

At any given time even during a 1vs1, I keep looking behind my backs and on every other side, I plan my escape route in anticipation of a gank team trying to get me.

If you’re used to “tank” like in other MMO, prepare to be screwed over by thieves or mesmers going stealth, because that’s what they do….and you are what they’re looking for.

You have to be aware of everything: incoming killshot….incoming barrage…incoming big ’ol bomb…dodge that kittening spirit hammer before it send you flying….dodge that thief rotation unless you like your respawn point that much….dodge that shatter combo unless you love purple and butterflies that much.

I laugh when I get killed by a shatter rotation, “jeez..christmas present here already” it’s what I say, but the next time that shatter rotation won’t work.

In the end this is not like GW1, it’s a new great game…and I wouldn’t have any other way, I love jumping in the middle of 6 people to save the life of a single guy or during a zerg fight where I literally shout :" ground zero" before transforming the entire area in something similar to a nuclear wasteland ( d/d eles FTW) and people start dieing left and right.

…..but the most great moment? When I updraft back 4 enemies who were about to stomp an ally, only for this one to thank me 2-3 times ^^, this is GW2 experience and I don’t want it any other way.

Arheundel.6451:

A dinamic, fast pace combat where split second life/death decisions can be made, we can’t ask for anything more in a MMO.

Getting out of burst that kills you in less than 2 secs is not a decision, it’s a reflex, same as dodging a speeding car that’s about to hit you. I personally dislike this type of PvP and based on GW1 PvP was expecting something lot different, i.e slower paced combat with an actual choreography, time for reactions and counter reactions, a combat that flows and takes skill and has a learning curve (f.ex. knowing the skills of other classes).

I’m an “old” guy, I don’t have reflexes of a 19 year old. That’s why I don’t play FPS PvP. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t react fast sometimes to get an upper hand. I’m saying it’s not a PvP I like when you have to react within a second to stay alive (it’s ok though if you face multiple opponents, but at the moment one player can squash you extremely fast).

Just my 2c

K im happy some people enjoy the pvp as it is, but it wasnt exactly what was promised.

Nothing specific was really promised, a lot of people bought this game with a strong impression that the same sort of thoughtful team design and tactics would be core elements.

Dont think anybody will try to tell me this game has an appeal to’deck builders’ … but i know some will argue team tactics still exist, and they arent entirely wrong they just arent very right.

The capture game type and powerful gap manipulators mean that nobody can be squishy, aka nobody can be back line. Thats where we see so many people cry about thief, thief culls anybody dumb enough to bring a build that cant brawl in the thick of it.

I guess the subtelty of good positioning decisions is lost on some people, but it was one of those things thats easy to learn and impossible to get right every time, those elements make gameplay suspenseful to watch because nobody can say for sure if some decisions are right or not. Even comentators who can see everything.

I dont think very many people are sorry to see button rotations go, an offhand dagger elementalist like yourself should probably realize that gw2 pvp is even more guilty of this than some previous titles. There are an awful lot of button sequences in here that are more effective than fun, and very repetative. But im not opposed to these conceptually, just pointing out that this part of the wheel hasnt been reinvented yet.

Look gw2 tpvp has some… to offer, and im not going to try and compare its quality to that of Prophesies, because i think both games are in different genres. I just ant anet to start an alternate game mode in the works that shares more than a simple fantasy scene with the origional guild wars. I eally bought this game on the anticipation of that sort of fun, and im really let down that its nowhere to be seen.

It’s not even a PvP, its just capture the point. where are the arenas and “Guild Wars”

-No duels GG’

I think you are asking for Deathmatch, because the current maps are 100% pvp.

Arheundel.6451:

Those who are complaining are those unable to leave the old habits from other MMO, where they could stand and spamm the same rotation over and over again while somebody else heal them.

I kinda wish people would stop making comments like this.

You can’t just stand around, face tank all damage, and spam pve rotations – if you do, your healers will go OOM quickly due to forced mana inefficiency and you’ll lose the match. It’s as simple as that.

Regardless of what type of combat the game in question has, you will always have to play smartly and avoid as much damage as possible – whether you do that through dodging, properly timed ability usage (immunities, reflects, absorbs, et al.), positioning, or otherwise is irrelevant. It’s the same in any game. Having healers doesn’t mean you can play like an idiot and get carried – it means you have an extra variable to account for and you have to play in such a way that doesn’t place your healers in vulnerable positions (i.e. positioning is critical 100% of the time) and doesn’t leave them behind in the mana race.

If anything, the lack of this dynamic in GW2 actually eliminates a tactical layer from the gameplay because your positioning relative to your teammates isn’t quite as important – partially because nearly everything is AoE and partially because of self-sufficiency.

Also, this game has more combos that rely on strict rotations than some other MMO’s that come to mind (applies to certain classes more than others)…

noone blame the combat mechanic as far as i know Actually players like it..

what most players complain about is

- PUGs fighting vs organized premades
- no ladders
- no spectator mode (that one we know it wasnt supposed to be at start)¨
- only one game mode
- simply hit and run tactic, no deep cooperation needed compared to GW1
- bugs

and thats.. it..

So GW2 PVP is definitly not what was promissed. Just check this https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/pvp/ and tell me where we have PvP that was prommissed?

yeah, like @Aragiel.6132 combat in GW2 is awesome. but the game modes… im so tired of conquest. same kitten over and over and over and over again. nearly 300 games played and i cant stand this anymore. QQ.

Arheundel.6451:

Those who are complaining are those unable to leave the old habits from other MMO, where they could stand and spamm the same rotation over and over again while somebody else heal them.

this is your first argument… and it’s completely biased and wrong.

I can accept that you want to defend GW2 pvp, but if you have to do it by spouting utter nonsense first than there isn’t much to discuss.

Two things are wrong with this paragraph:
1. you have a completely wrong image of pvp in other games.
2. you assume that people complaining about GW2 pvp are doing this because they want to spam their pve rotations?

Even with healers in other games, the pvp is still way more dynamic than you suggest.
If anything than GW2 is the ‘spamming’ pvp, because everybody just unleashes all their short cooldowns as much as they can.
Is GW2 pvp dynamic? Yes, to some degree.
Is pvp in some other MMO’s dynamic? Hell yes.
Your statement is false and biased, no other way around it.

As for the second part: it is not up to you to decide why people complain about pvp in GW2!
Maybe start by reading what people write when they complain.
Some will complain about the dynamics, but many will complain about other things.
GW2 players are very capable of making a judgement on GW2 pvp based on what they see in GW2 itself.

What makes you think YOU are the only one capable of making a correct judgement of GW2 pvp?
What gives you the right to decide why people complain?

I’ll tell you one reason why I think GW2 pvp is lacking of it’s promise:

GW2 pvp has very little diversity and variety!

Not only in the forms of pvp, but also in the fighting itself.
As soon as the fight gets bigger than 2 or 3 players involved, it just becomes a spamfest of random abilities. Not always, but very often.

And this is coming from someone who never did pvp by spamming a pve rotation with a healer behind me…
This simply isn’t a valid strategy in pvp. So don’t think this is what people expect when they complain about GW2 pvp…

Just for the record: that thief killing you before you react, what do you think he’s doing?
He’s spamming a rotation, just like your claim about pve rotations in other games…

In those other games: when you interrupt that player doing a pve rotation with a healer behind him… he can’t kill you anymore either.
And often it is more realistic to interrupt that other player in that other game, than it is to interrupt the thief in GW2.

GW2 pvp isn’t superior to the pvp of other MMO’s.
Maybe better than some, maybe worse than others.

Arheundel.6451:

You have to be aware of everything: incoming killshot….incoming barrage…incoming big ’ol bomb…dodge that kittening spirit hammer before it send you flying….dodge that thief rotation unless you like your respawn point that much….dodge that shatter combo unless you love purple and butterflies that much.

I need more energy. I get 2 dodges before energy is drained. Apparently we need a minimum of 6.

Also people enjoy the combat MECHANICS, it’s the game mode and balance issues that bug the kitten out of people.

I totally agree with you, love this game for its PVP. It is not perfect in my book, but I love the “twicthness” that’s allowed. You have to be attentive to zergers, be vigilent to burts, have you’re cool down up. Don’t get to greedy or you’ll be met with your demise. I loved how the combat system so far, any pace slower would be a deal breaker for me.

Sonnet.9840:

Arheundel.6451:

A dinamic, fast pace combat where split second life/death decisions can be made, we can’t ask for anything more in a MMO.

Getting out of burst that kills you in less than 2 secs is not a decision, it’s a reflex, same as dodging a speeding car that’s about to hit you. I personally dislike this type of PvP and based on GW1 PvP was expecting something lot different, i.e slower paced combat with an actual choreography, time for reactions and counter reactions, a combat that flows and takes skill and has a learning curve (f.ex. knowing the skills of other classes).

I’m an “old” guy, I don’t have reflexes of a 19 year old. That’s why I don’t play FPS PvP. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t react fast sometimes to get an upper hand. I’m saying it’s not a PvP I like when you have to react within a second to stay alive (it’s ok though if you face multiple opponents, but at the moment one player can squash you extremely fast).

Just my 2c

You do decide when choosing between fightning back or running away, but anyway the problem you’re having cannot be related to the PvP system in itself.

If you mention GW1 PvP, I can easily tell you that it’s there that you could be bursted down in 2s with no chance of surviving, there was the sin with that “beguiling gaze” elite against which many caster players had no chance to survive or what about “invoke spike”, that was like instant death from distance…but there were many more situations were killing somebody in 2s was easily done.

But in this game, you’ve got ways to handle hairy situations like that, you can use runes ( forge-earth-adventurer etc etc) or traits which activate once you reach a certain HP treshold, yeah going the “bunker” way but that’s because you’re unable to use active defense tools properly, this is a matetr of choice

the pvp in this game sucks!!

ryston.7640:

K im happy some people enjoy the pvp as it is, but it wasnt exactly what was promised.

Nothing specific was really promised, a lot of people bought this game with a strong impression that the same sort of thoughtful team design and tactics would be core elements.

Dont think anybody will try to tell me this game has an appeal to’deck builders’ … but i know some will argue team tactics still exist, and they arent entirely wrong they just arent very right.

The capture game type and powerful gap manipulators mean that nobody can be squishy, aka nobody can be back line. Thats where we see so many people cry about thief, thief culls anybody dumb enough to bring a build that cant brawl in the thick of it.

I guess the subtelty of good positioning decisions is lost on some people, but it was one of those things thats easy to learn and impossible to get right every time, those elements make gameplay suspenseful to watch because nobody can say for sure if some decisions are right or not. Even comentators who can see everything.

I dont think very many people are sorry to see button rotations go, an offhand dagger elementalist like yourself should probably realize that gw2 pvp is even more guilty of this than some previous titles. There are an awful lot of button sequences in here that are more effective than fun, and very repetative. But im not opposed to these conceptually, just pointing out that this part of the wheel hasnt been reinvented yet.

Look gw2 tpvp has some… to offer, and im not going to try and compare its quality to that of Prophesies, because i think both games are in different genres. I just ant anet to start an alternate game mode in the works that shares more than a simple fantasy scene with the origional guild wars. I eally bought this game on the anticipation of that sort of fun, and im really let down that its nowhere to be seen.

What Anet promised us was an active combat system where dmg-support-healing were all in your hands , up to you how to use this opportunity.

Team tactics of course do exist: Do you try to kill the bunker necro or go for the glass cannon warrior? Do you save that interrupt for when your ally goes down or you use it now to save yourself?Do you go and try to cap that point underneath the enemy base or try to start a 2vs1 fight in the middle of nowhere to distract the enemy team? Do I wait for the ele/ranger to use the water field or I just use now this blast finisher?…..

These and hundreds more of options are open to your team.

I’m confused when people ask for more game modes, in the end every game mode will have an objective that you like it or not, if you enjoy fightning people only , you can do so in a way that actually helps your team, for example as suggested above: start a 2vs1 fight away from the cap point, hit and run tactics etc etc

Regarding the same button rotation, as d/d ele I never use the same rotation because it’s simply impossible for me, based on the situation at hand I decide which way to go and how; every profession is able of using intricate strategies that can twitch your brain, but now if some people simply reduce themself to use the same rotation over and over again we can’t really blame the game for when you start failing.

You can have tremendous amount of fun in this game, there can be strategy even behind a zerg…but again that’s up to you as player.

Finally a word of advice against thieves….check your build and play accordingly, if you’re a glass cannon I wouldn’t go and participate in a zerg fight or try to hold a point, you’re an obvious target, change strategy…it’s not the thief fault if your approach is wrong and neither you need to build bulky

Noctred.6732:

Arheundel.6451:

Those who are complaining are those unable to leave the old habits from other MMO, where they could stand and spamm the same rotation over and over again while somebody else heal them.

I kinda wish people would stop making comments like this.

You can’t just stand around, face tank all damage, and spam pve rotations – if you do, your healers will go OOM quickly due to forced mana inefficiency and you’ll lose the match. It’s as simple as that.

Regardless of what type of combat the game in question has, you will always have to play smartly and avoid as much damage as possible – whether you do that through dodging, properly timed ability usage (immunities, reflects, absorbs, et al.), positioning, or otherwise is irrelevant. It’s the same in any game. Having healers doesn’t mean you can play like an idiot and get carried – it means you have an extra variable to account for and you have to play in such a way that doesn’t place your healers in vulnerable positions (i.e. positioning is critical 100% of the time) and doesn’t leave them behind in the mana race.

If anything, the lack of this dynamic in GW2 actually eliminates a tactical layer from the gameplay because your positioning relative to your teammates isn’t quite as important – partially because nearly everything is AoE and partially because of self-sufficiency.

Also, this game has more combos that rely on strict rotations than some other MMO’s that come to mind (applies to certain classes more than others)…

You have just proved to me that my comment was appropiate, in this game you DO NEED to pay attention to the position of your allies-aoe attacks.

For example projectiles finishers passing over a fire line, will be imbued with burning properties only if your location is correct.

A thief or any other ranged character who make use of necro wells to apply poison, will be hundred times more efficient that the bad thief who simply use unload on every moving target

Aragiel.6132:

noone blame the combat mechanic as far as i know Actually players like it..

what most players complain about is

- PUGs fighting vs organized premades
- no ladders
- no spectator mode (that one we know it wasnt supposed to be at start)¨
- only one game mode
- simply hit and run tactic, no deep cooperation needed compared to GW1
- bugs

and thats.. it..

So GW2 PVP is definitly not what was promissed. Just check this https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/pvp/ and tell me where we have PvP that was prommissed?

The problem is many people go to free tournament exclusively to have a more controlled sPvP environment, these people were more concerned about farming pts than actually winning, more concerned more about chasing the guy to get the kill rather than ressing you…yeah played with PUGS and that’s why PUGS lose against premade and when you do get good PUGS, I can assure you there will little to no difference between PUGS and guild, it will a great fight regardless

Without deep cooperation you lose, it’s that easy, hit and run tactics can be part of greater scheme but alone with no plan are worthless…hence deep cooperation needed

Kimbald.2697:

Arheundel.6451:

Those who are complaining are those unable to leave the old habits from other MMO, where they could stand and spamm the same rotation over and over again while somebody else heal them.

this is your first argument… and it’s completely biased and wrong.

I can accept that you want to defend GW2 pvp, but if you have to do it by spouting utter nonsense first than there isn’t much to discuss.

Two things are wrong with this paragraph:
1. you have a completely wrong image of pvp in other games.
2. you assume that people complaining about GW2 pvp are doing this because they want to spam their pve rotations?

Even with healers in other games, the pvp is still way more dynamic than you suggest.
If anything than GW2 is the ‘spamming’ pvp, because everybody just unleashes all their short cooldowns as much as they can.
Is GW2 pvp dynamic? Yes, to some degree.
Is pvp in some other MMO’s dynamic? Hell yes.
Your statement is false and biased, no other way around it.

As for the second part: it is not up to you to decide why people complain about pvp in GW2!
Maybe start by reading what people write when they complain.
Some will complain about the dynamics, but many will complain about other things.
GW2 players are very capable of making a judgement on GW2 pvp based on what they see in GW2 itself.

What makes you think YOU are the only one capable of making a correct judgement of GW2 pvp?
What gives you the right to decide why people complain?

I’ll tell you one reason why I think GW2 pvp is lacking of it’s promise:

GW2 pvp has very little diversity and variety!

Not only in the forms of pvp, but also in the fighting itself.
As soon as the fight gets bigger than 2 or 3 players involved, it just becomes a spamfest of random abilities. Not always, but very often.

And this is coming from someone who never did pvp by spamming a pve rotation with a healer behind me…
This simply isn’t a valid strategy in pvp. So don’t think this is what people expect when they complain about GW2 pvp…

You’re telling me that it’s not a valid strategy in pvp to simply spamm skills, well….for example the same people who do spamm skills when in the middle of a zerg fight do complain when killed by thief players who do play in the same way

But regardless why don’t you give me an example of this “diversity” that GW2 lack and other games go?

Does the OP even have like 10 tpvp wins?

Guess what sparky, veterans of 5v5 do all the things you mention in your post. Have you tried any other spec besides the couple of fotm ele builds? Well go on, try one, and you’ll see why people who have much greater pvp experience than you are getting frustrated, and you’ll understand what they mean when they say GW2 lacks diversity. I dare you to experiment with a non-bunker ele spec, and watch how utterly useless you are in both 8v8 and 5v5. You’ll put out laughable burst, while folding like paper to shatter mes or 3 button wonder thief/war. Try your diverse ele build in tpvp, and be a waste of a party slot while trying to take points from an unkillable bunker or get easily ganked by a roaming dps. You don’t need to refute, in my 300+ tpvp games (still not a lot of games compared to some of the hardcore still around playing paid) i’ve seen the “diversity” of GW2, and watched non-cookie cutter builds get destroyed. Tried a couple myself, and got destroyed.

So this is what was promised? Everyone bunker or burst, every team comp nearly identical in 5v5, and every pubstomp build the same in 8v8? I just wished the marketing material was as clear, I wouldn’t of bothered spending the 60 bones.

GW1 was a very bursty game, people just don’t realize it because they have nostalgia about the good old days or something. Maybe they just remember the game in slow motion. The way you kill someone in gw1: burst damage, or heavy pressure. Whoever says gw1 didn’t need reflexes, has obviously never played a monk. Now that we don’t have monks any more it’s like everyone is suddenly aware of what kind of reaction time is necessary to avoid burst and it’s like they get their eyes opened. But they’d prefer to go back to the old system where healers carry everyone, while you don’t have to worry about any of that stuff and just focus on swinging your little sword.

BobF.3509:

Does the OP even have like 10 tpvp wins?

Guess what sparky, veterans of 5v5 do all the things you mention in your post. Have you tried any other spec besides the couple of fotm ele builds? Well go on, try one, and you’ll see why people who have much greater pvp experience than you are getting frustrated, and you’ll understand what they mean when they say GW2 lacks diversity. I dare you to experiment with a non-bunker ele spec, and watch how utterly useless you are in both 8v8 and 5v5. You’ll put out laughable burst, while folding like paper to shatter mes or 3 button wonder thief/war. Try your diverse ele build in tpvp, and be a waste of a party slot while trying to take points from an unkillable bunker or get easily ganked by a roaming dps. You don’t need to refute, in my 300+ tpvp games (still not a lot of games compared to some of the hardcore still around playing paid) i’ve seen the “diversity” of GW2, and watched non-cookie cutter builds get destroyed. Tried a couple myself, and got destroyed.

So this is what was promised? Everyone bunker or burst, every team comp nearly identical in 5v5, and every pubstomp build the same in 8v8? I just wished the marketing material was as clear, I wouldn’t of bothered spending the 60 bones.

Well let’s see…:

1) champion magus ( 150 tournaments won)- check
2) 400 tournaments won- check
3) r40 – check
4) 200 healing max – check
5) double arcane use – check

Hey it seems I’m nothing of what you described, not a bunker, not any other crap you’ve posted, but more than desire to answer your trolling post I wanted to post infos for people who may be interested in them and still be not insulting like you

I thought the OP was gonna say ‘bad’. Woulda summed it up better without the wall of text.

My assessment has nothing to do with the mechanics of other MMOs, its the mechanics of this MMO. The classes have terrible balance which creates a flood of bunker builds and theres so many ability bugs with many classes that they arent even worth playing. (Necros healing enemies, RTL bug)

Not only that but they need more game modes, more maps, a better queueing system the list goes on.

Sure the OP might be a great player that doesnt do any of the things hes refuting, but if so hes an anamoly not the norm. BobF has it right.

BobF.3509:

Does the OP even have like 10 tpvp wins?

Guess what sparky, veterans of 5v5 do all the things you mention in your post. Have you tried any other spec besides the couple of fotm ele builds? Well go on, try one, and you’ll see why people who have much greater pvp experience than you are getting frustrated, and you’ll understand what they mean when they say GW2 lacks diversity. I dare you to experiment with a non-bunker ele spec, and watch how utterly useless you are in both 8v8 and 5v5. You’ll put out laughable burst, while folding like paper to shatter mes or 3 button wonder thief/war. Try your diverse ele build in tpvp, and be a waste of a party slot while trying to take points from an unkillable bunker or get easily ganked by a roaming dps. You don’t need to refute, in my 300+ tpvp games (still not a lot of games compared to some of the hardcore still around playing paid) i’ve seen the “diversity” of GW2, and watched non-cookie cutter builds get destroyed. Tried a couple myself, and got destroyed.

So this is what was promised? Everyone bunker or burst, every team comp nearly identical in 5v5, and every pubstomp build the same in 8v8? I just wished the marketing material was as clear, I wouldn’t of bothered spending the 60 bones.

There are some classes that are only used one way, but you can’t count elementalist among them. Besides the various bunker builds, you occasionally see stuff like double arcane glass cannons, and d/d aura share specs, which work very well. My tournament team hasn’t played for a while, but last I saw, [PTC] was using a glass cannon d/d aura share ele, and they’re one of the best NA teams. As for team builds, there are plenty of things that work. Most individual builds can be separated into bunker/burst/support, but there are lots of teams and strategies you can use. Just have some creativity, and practice a bit. If you try something new, you won’t immediately be great at it.

Trying to “pull rank” in this conversation is silly and childish, but since you seem to care: I’m at around 400 tPvP wins and 10 QP, and I disagree with you. You’re entitled to your opinion, but before you act arrogant, make sure that you’re not wrong.

I like how fast paced combat is in this game. However, I do not welcome professions like thieves and mesmers in their currently overpowered state. People complain because they want to keep playing, and for that, obvious problems such as lack of balance, matchmaking, and rankings must be addressed.

I’m going to have to disagree with you here.

This game is not meant to be this fast paced. This isn’t counter strike where the powerful one hit kills take pure skill to use and the instant death is justified by how easy it is to avoid being hit.

This is a half action game. Everyone gets 2 dodges and that’s it. From then on, unless you use a high cooldown move on a defensive weapon, you’re getting hit. If combat happens too fast, it’s no longer a game about skill. It’s more about who sees who first.

I like to play action MMO’s and they don’t have combat as fast as GW2. Even the strongest class needs a decently long combo to take the enemy out, and in most games you have ways of getting out of combos. Modern fighting games, like street fighter 4 for example, add diminishing returns so a fight isn’t decided by who can set their combo up first.

Fast combat isn’t fun unless you’re playing a FPS.

This isn’t about “pulling rank,” it’s about citing plain observation in the 5v5 environment. Hey that’s great that there’s a handful of players on the very best teams carrying the deficiency of the non-cookie cutter build. I’m positive I could look pro running a ranger with 4 other top players too. The point is that the viability of any other than the one or two accepted roles/builds of each class is not as effective as the ones people have min/maxed out. You super neckbeards with 400+ tpvp games are sitting there and honestly saying you’ve seen a wide diversity of comps and builds that are competitive? Really? No, I mean: really? Has anyone dared convention and NOT run a guardian in a premade that doesn’t want to get stomped? Is a 5 ranger comp viable? Is there anybody that doesn’t bring a mes or trebkill ele to Khylo? Anyone running an all 5 dps role comp that consistently wins?

Just because things go fast and there’s lots of pretty lights doesn’t make for a diverse pvp experience. There’s little depth or options available in 5v5 or 8v8 for that matter if you don’t want to die and lose repeatedly.