Guild Wars 2

I really think the problem actually is that GW2 really does have a pretty great fighting mechanic.

And it requires thought and reflexes and anticipation to play at a high level.

But I just don’t think there are enough people in the MMO population who have developed these kinds of skills. The genre doesnt attract that kind of player; they go to FP shooters.

MMOs are not about any kind of dodge mechanic, or twitch and combos.

THEREFORE: in tournaments or soloQ you get a few players who have mastered these skills dominating the 75% who are not all that skilled.

This makes it not fun for the majority. They drop out when they find they cannot master the skillsets needed.

I do think that Anet is trying to enhance a few “easier” classes for the slow-fingered people.

As J. Sharp (I think) said recently: Some things they implement are bad for the (skilled) player, but good for the game’s overall viability.

[THIS SLOT RESERVED FOR PEOPLE WHO MUST BRAG AT HOW EASY IT IS, BECAUSE THEY THEMSELVES ARE SO SKILLED]

There, it was said…now you don’t have to brag and clutter up the topic with useless ego posts.

I think this game is too easy and brainless, and you are asking to make it more easy.

People have to learn to play, that make a game fun. I want to become stronger and not just jump in learning in 2 hours and be a to player.

Evrytime i listen dev saying: we can’t do that it is too difficult to learn from pve player, we can’t add a more control to pet player that learn to use it will be stronger than ppl that don’t use it. I give a slap on my face and i think, that is the most kittened thing i ever heard.

I don’t understand wher is the problem if ppl that know how to play are stronger than random players.

Laxuar, you missed the point of the OP. The point is, people who give MMOs a try are not the people who are going to spend the time, or even enjoy, a higher level mechanic.

That limits the population and causes problems in sPvP.

Than ask to put tourney for strong players, a ladder, a machup for low rank ppl . Not to make the game easyier. In Dota they don’t make the game easyer for new ppl, they do tutorial, in game builds, pve fights, and a ladder.

I think before we say whether or not this is true, a link between PvE and PvP rewards must be added. This would bring in a lot more PvE players to PvP and even if many of them weren’t good, at least a few would excel and realize they enjoy PvP.

More accurately the majority of players who did want competitive SPVP in an mmo quit long long long ago. I can name off top of my head 14 personal friends who bought the game thinking it would have all the systems for an E-sport out the door ‘as they advertised’ and then after about 4-6 months of seeing no needed features or improvements to spvp and realizing they were playing a game that was still in a beta state went back to their respected pvp games that already HAVE an e-sport scene going. Simply put the game does not attract those type of players to begin with because the game itself doesn’t reward competition and is not well developed in its launch state or current. Many sponsored teams created for the E-sport scene dissolved by January of this year upon realizing it was a bad investment and went back to focusing their support on their other sponsored teams in games like League of legends starcraft..cs etc. Hope this helps

Really? GW2 pvp difficult? HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLLOHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

No. Even for the layman this game is extremely easy and straight forward, I mean we don’t even have to manage resources like in GW1. I’d looove to see these bads even attempt a GvG, hell even a RA match.

Fact: gamers are getting too lazy and devs are accommodating them, WRONG MOVE.

Get good or get lost. You have no place in pvp if you want to faceroll and win, that’s what pve is and always has been for. Pvp is already braindead and you want to make it easier… sigh, really.

That’s the kind of attitude that leads to stagnation in a genre.

Plenty of ways to play this game faceroll style tbh.

Mathias, we covered your kind of ego boasting earlier.

Did you even read the OP? Do you understand what the point of this thread is?

I think its quite the opposite, if you can master a class in less then a day , run around and be just as effective as someone who mains the class what is the point of logging in and trying to improve. Its the reason all the people I knew from other games quit this game…

I love the dodge mechanic moving away from trinity , combo fields etc…. but IMO being too simple/ lack of “twitch” game play is a bigger problem than balance , rewards, game types , bad meta etc

Cant tell if you are trolling or….. but whatever

“in tournaments or soloQ you get a few players who have mastered these skills dominating the 75% who are not all that skilled.” <- this is how it should be.

Sars.8792:

“in tournaments or soloQ you get a few players who have mastered these skills dominating the 75% who are not all that skilled.” <- this is how it should be.

No, that is what leaves the master players with no one to play against and a 45 minute queue.

People have to feel that they had a chance and could have won if they had just played a little bit better. They have to feel it is in their power to win.

Being dominated is only enjoyable for the ones doing the dominating and feeling powerful. And for the really good players, it’s boring.

GW2 doesn’t advertise the combos and a lot of people are unaware of how to combo and to be effective in GW2.

And yes most MMORPGs are used to standing still and smacking each other, GW2 needs to make people stop moving around and just a smack fest.

No sry but that’s not true at all. I mean it might be true if the game was a bit different, but let’s be honest…I love gw2 combat mechanics but really this game is extremely easy to play. Ofc some teams are better than others, mostly cos they have better coordination/classes/builds/tactics. Gw2 is pretty much about spamming things, skills or dodges. The dodge mechanic is an amazing idea, sadly dodges are so easily available most of the time people literally just dodge randomly…and it works. As a spirit ranger I can spam shortbow autoatt like a baws, dodge and evade randomly while still being extremely effective.
Also counterplay is almost nonexistent, mostly cos lots of skills have bad animations (or those animations are often extremely hard to distinguish…ehm…asuras).
Ofc there are lots of bad players, you can see lots of them in hotjoin, I suppose some of them are playing without a mouse or something like that, maybe they lost a finger…who knows.
I’ve played fps competitively for years since like 2005, started with bf2. I don’t play fps anymore mostly cos they were too stressful, but let’s be honest, there is a lot of difference between a good fps game and gw2 when it comes to skill in playing/doing things precisely right. This game is a mess right now, effects and pets everywhere, how can you counterplay or even dodge something at the right time when you can’t even understand wtf is going on? Eviscerate and kill shot, these are good designed skills, sadly 99% of the others are not, not even close.
Players have left the game not cos they suck, but cos the game is not fun. The ones who are still playing and competing every day are just doing that cos they don’t want their little ephemeral moment of glory and fame in a small toxic community to end. Sorry but that’s my opinion.

Pvp in this game isn’t difficult at all not even for MMO’s. Take Aion for example most classes pretty much require you to have <50ms ping. Not to mention a necesary mechanic like weaving takes longer to master than all of gw2’s classes combined.

That’s jut one MMO example on the top of my head, I’m sure there’s many more that are harder than a limited skill and spamfest such as gw2.

Well, in this particular case (soloQ), the issue is when skilled players are matched with/against new players.

Which shouldn’t happen. New players should learn the game amongst themselves, and develop their skills naturally by playing more and more, veterans should play against each other. And everyone has fun at his own level of skill.

But matchmaking being what it is, it does happen.

I see all of these people who say that sPvP is really easy, yet I’ve never seen their name on a team that’s been in PAX or the MLG tournament.

Interesting..

Benjamin.7893:

Pvp in this game isn’t difficult at all not even for MMO’s. Take Aion for example most classes pretty much require you to have <50ms ping. Not to mention a necesary mechanic like weaving takes longer to master than all of gw2’s classes combined.

Ping and weaving? That’s not inherently difficult PvP, that’s poorly implemented PvP then, which makes it difficult to play.
I’m thoroughly impressed that you have mastered all the classes in GW2, though.

Heck, chess is easy to play. How many of chess masters are there though?

Ok people keep talking about how much twitch is in this game but with what getting a dodge off on a war cc animation or on a spite sig come on I played wow for years as a resto Sham got glad a couple times ran a rbg team to 2k and there was just as much twitch to it maybe more fear bomb the group twitch to drop tremor totem stunned twitch to use trinket big nasty Mage spell coming twitch to interrupt or drop totem flag carrier going down twitch to drop link totem feral Druid has insta cast cc up start the hex so when he pops there is the cc on them come on really are you having trouble blasting the feilds and dodging things come on when water starts to splash on you and you need to heal more quick do your own blast or how about when fire licks your nuts blast for some group might omg warrior is about to bash me dodge get over this twitch thing and if you are having problems there is a white powder that can get you all hyped up

If you don’t want to be dominated by people who are better than you, than get better. Why make it easier? Than players who have learned how to play better will have wasted their time…

This game has a perfect dmg-or-bunker balance, if you are not skilled enough to evade attacks and focus on dealing damage, then roll a guardian or warrior and just survive and support your team. Being squishy in this game is definitely not for you, if you can’t dodge, nor escape at the right time.

If you observe someone skilled, you will see that the most important thing is to be at the right place at the right time. When you play a berserker thief, most of the time you will have to flee from 2v1 situations (unless they are kitten brainless warriors) and look for teammates in combat, emerge from shadows and kill the opponent of your mate.

You obviously can’t do everything with one build. If u want to be tanky, u have to build for it, and its price will be the -% dmg. Don’t expect A-Net to make (more) professions being tanky, dealing high dmg, and requiring no skill at the same time. (well it’s the minion master necro)

You would be wrong, I found WoW arena play much harder.

Casual not really trying easy for me to get top 100 on leader boards in GW2, thats not to say the game is simple…. its just a lack of strong players because strong MMO players shun conquest mode.

fatback.7436:

Ok people keep talking about how much twitch is in this game but with what getting a dodge off on a war cc animation or on a spite sig come on I played wow for years as a resto Sham got glad a couple times ran a rbg team to 2k and there was just as much twitch to it maybe more fear bomb the group twitch to drop tremor totem stunned twitch to use trinket big nasty Mage spell coming twitch to interrupt or drop totem flag carrier going down twitch to drop link totem feral Druid has insta cast cc up start the hex so when he pops there is the cc on them come on really are you having trouble blasting the feilds and dodging things come on when water starts to splash on you and you need to heal more quick do your own blast or how about when fire licks your nuts blast for some group might omg warrior is about to bash me dodge get over this twitch thing and if you are having problems there is a white powder that can get you all hyped up

What are you trying to say?

sPVP isn’t unpopular because it’s hard, it’s unpopular because it sucks.

This game had dozens of esports teams lining up to play it…. ones coming from LoL and all that jazz…
Every top tier GW1 player in alpha said the game had no where near the skill required of GW1, but was could be more casual friendly if Anet plays their cards right…

But right now GW2 has neither.

mjharrison.3209:

sPVP isn’t unpopular because it’s hard, it’s unpopular because it sucks.

This pretty much.

Cond spam, and the unbalance between classes pretty much takes GW2 out of any “serious pvp” discussion. e.g – eles anyone?

It’s not by coincidence that most top players have left now for greener pastures. GW2 pvp is a joke on the competitive side.
WvW is still bloody good for laughs. That’s where “it’s” at, sorry to inform.

I think the opposite actually. I think GW2 PvP is a little to simple and lacks depth. It has the least keybinds compared to most other MMOs. The devs obviously tried to emulate LoL and other MOBAs but failed because that doesn’t work in MMOs.

In other MMOs a good team can chain CC or silence the opponent at the correct time, in GW2 that rarely happens against other players. Too many instant casts and no spell bar are couple of the reasons for it. The lack of abilities and UI just makes the combat bland and literally faceroll.

One thing however I do think is stupid is that they didn’t launch with a rating system. When that happened noobs that just joined the game went up against players that have played for months and they probably never queued again.

10-12 keybinds are easy especially coming from most other MMOs. Adding a dodge mechanic doesn’t make combat hard. A game like Tera that actually had aiming and tons of abilities can call itself hard.

Tera was not hard at all and extremely poorly balanced. Yes, there are a lot less key binds, but that doesn’t make the game easy. More key binds doesn’t make a game difficult, aiming doesn’t make a game difficult either. In those other games you could macro, in SW:TOR I played a hybrid dps/healing operative. I had both action bars on the sides filled with abilities I used a lot, my main filled with abilities I used every fight, and my ‘shift+’ action bar loaded down with stuff I used most fights. However all of that stuff was macroed and it really didn’t require much more muscle memory to get it nailed down.

I’ve played the game for a year now and looking back at the beginning it was quite difficult to learn all the other classes while min/maxing my own class. But after a month or two I could call out what each classes weapon combos were going to throw at me and as well as most utilities. As for the dodge mechanic it works very well in the game. I always laugh at the people that double dodge and leave themselves open to huge attacks/condi application for the next 5-6 seconds.

Dynnen.6405:

Tera was not hard at all and extremely poorly balanced. Yes, there are a lot less key binds, but that doesn’t make the game easy. More key binds doesn’t make a game difficult, aiming doesn’t make a game difficult either. In those other games you could macro, in SW:TOR I played a hybrid dps/healing operative. I had both action bars on the sides filled with abilities I used a lot, my main filled with abilities I used every fight, and my ‘shift+’ action bar loaded down with stuff I used most fights. However all of that stuff was macroed and it really didn’t require much more muscle memory to get it nailed down.

I’ve played the game for a year now and looking back at the beginning it was quite difficult to learn all the other classes while min/maxing my own class. But after a month or two I could call out what each classes weapon combos were going to throw at me and as well as most utilities. As for the dodge mechanic it works very well in the game. I always laugh at the people that double dodge and leave themselves open to huge attacks/condi application for the next 5-6 seconds.

I don’t think any MMO is hard. But I would put GW2 in the middle to low in terms of “Hard”.

All these people boasting about how easy it is…I’d love to know their win-loss record. LOL.

na, i havnt been very active since beta. I have been playing video games for several years, however. When I take the time to commit to a game I’m pretty consistently in the uper 5-10% of it’s player base. Not pro level, but good enough. (that means in a pub of 20 people I’d be 1st or 2nd best, but then sometimes 3rd or 4th. Depends on the crowd.)

I can confidently say that gw2 is easy to play.

Silentshoes.1805:

All these people boasting about how easy it is…I’d love to know their win-loss record. LOL.

Conquest mode is kitten. Matchmaking is broken. When most people want to play PvP they either quit to other games or they go to WvW to have fun hunting ppl.

I have been giving this issue a great deal of thought recently as it continues to be a hot topic and a concern for many of the top pvpers that are still actively members of the community.

One of the first games I ever played was almost entirely pvp based because your enemies could invade right to your main city and kill anyone that was not basically a brand new player. The skills were limited overall in relation to weapons and builds tended to rule the game not unlike GW2.

Most MMORPGs that have a notable pvp aspect to them also tend to have a large array of skills to use. This ultimately increases the skill cap because most low end pvpers mismanage their CD’s, have limited understanding of how they all work, and usually don’t have standard and established rotations. Often they have a small group of skills they use all the time and never ever use the others viewing them as weak or useless.

GW2 has reduced that to a very basic level in comparison to other games in the genre. This also reinforces the ease of which FOTM builds and skill “spam” are notoriously blamed for low skill play.

There is a logical and realistic argument at the root of the top tier level. Animations and random skill spam along with dodging does ultimately bring the gap between the top players and the bottom players closer together. Character size does make this exponentially harder to read thus making the pvp in this game random and frustrating.

The reality is even if the animations and the characters in pvp were standardized sooner or later the gap would still close between the top and bottom tiers of competition.

The limit of weapon choices along with specific builds are fairly easy to establish and because of that it will not take an average player very long to reach a competitive level on any of the basic classes.

We currently have Engies, Eles, and Mesmers as arguably the most difficult classes to play by default. Necros used to be in this category prior to the famous patch but have since become a great deal easier to play.

Warriors, Guardians, Thieves, and Hunters have been the easy to approach and easy to learn classes from the beginning. Some of this has to do with how certain class mechanics can be used to bail out weaker players and some of it has to do with how they are inherently built from the onset at creation.

No matter how much tinkering Anet does with these classes as they stand with regards to weapon choices, skill options, and the trait options it will not take long for manageable and simple to learn builds to surface.

If they were to expand on the ability and weapon choices to build up charges on other skills and combo options we would see that gap increase. If they were to take the basic 14 to 20+ skills (depending on class of course) and ramp that up to 30 or 40 general options we would certainly see a larger divide between the upper and lower tier pvpers. Mastering a build would take more time and the elite players would have more tools and options to counter the basic builds.

GW2 as it stands is not on the path to become an elite pvp playground.

Square peg meet round hole.

Ele here, game is simple as this:

If your build needs skill to play, its useless.

And cmon go tell me spirit ranger, stunlockimbaregenwarriors and condition enigneer/necromancer take skill.
FALSE.

Silentshoes.1805:

I really think the problem actually is that GW2 really does have a pretty great fighting mechanic.

And it requires thought and reflexes and anticipation to play at a high level.

But I just don’t think there are enough people in the MMO population who have developed these kinds of skills. The genre doesnt attract that kind of player; they go to FP shooters.

MMOs are not about any kind of dodge mechanic, or twitch and combos.

THEREFORE: in tournaments or soloQ you get a few players who have mastered these skills dominating the 75% who are not all that skilled.

This makes it not fun for the majority. They drop out when they find they cannot master the skillsets needed.

I agree with op. I like shooters, but even for me gameplay in GW2 is too fast. Too much abilities with very short and/or vague animations and sometimes this abilities can greatly change situation. In 1×1 its i’m fine with it, but in teamfights…
Also, don't forget about those tiny asuras (;

And it does’nt appears only in pvp. Some bosses abilities in pve also have short and vague animations, and, well, hit pretty hard and can just one-shot people even with some defensive gear like ppt. Boss just slightly waved his hand and after 1/4 seconds you are dead, what the hell. It’s pretty sad when you CAN react to that but just DONT SEE IT. :/

Silentshoes.1805:

Laxuar, you missed the point of the OP. The point is, people who give MMOs a try are not the people who are going to spend the time, or even enjoy, a higher level mechanic.

That limits the population and causes problems in sPvP.

Why you argument about something you don’t have any clue about. You ever heard about Guildwars 1? Otherwise you shouln’t write such a post.

And again. Many players, who actually decide to dedicate into PvP have problems with the low skill-floor that this game has. PPL feel unrewarded for investing hours into a class, while a beginner can join for 2 hours and get nearly on the same level. Why you think that the competition in this game went down as the passive spam-meta came into this game?

Fun Fact: Skillfloor is dead!

Fun fact, guild wars 2 is exceptionally easy to pvp compared to the likes of Wow…which you need about 20 macro’s 10 addons and 30 keybind’s to play at an average level.

Fun fact: If it’s so easy for all of you, why aren’t you on a team that participates in the tournaments?

Mathias.9657:

Really? GW2 pvp difficult? HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLLOHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

No. Even for the layman this game is extremely easy and straight forward, I mean we don’t even have to manage resources like in GW1. I’d looove to see these bads even attempt a GvG, hell even a RA match.

Fact: gamers are getting too lazy and devs are accommodating them, WRONG MOVE.

Get good or get lost. You have no place in pvp if you want to faceroll and win, that’s what pve is and always has been for. Pvp is already braindead and you want to make it easier… sigh, really.

What he said!

tichorum.2415:

Fun fact: If it’s so easy for all of you, why aren’t you on a team that participates in the tournaments?

Fun fact: Tournaments are unrewarding compared to the time you have to invest in it!

Conan.8046:

Fun fact, guild wars 2 is exceptionally easy to pvp compared to the likes of Wow…which you need about 20 macro’s 10 addons and 30 keybind’s to play at an average level.

If you need 20 macro’s and 10 addons to play at average lvl it just means that game was poorly designed, nothing more, son.

This game isn’t difficult at all. As a matter of fact just knowing the proper way to assault the right points and understanding conquest mode is 95% of it.

Kwll.1468:

This game isn’t difficult at all. As a matter of fact just knowing the proper way to assault the right points and understanding conquest mode is 95% of it.

Knowing the rules of chess doesn’t make you a pro chess player.

fatback.7436:

Ok people keep talking about how much twitch is in this game but with what getting a dodge off on a war cc animation or on a spite sig come on I played wow for years as a resto Sham got glad a couple times ran a rbg team to 2k and there was just as much twitch to it maybe more fear bomb the group twitch to drop tremor totem stunned twitch to use trinket big nasty Mage spell coming twitch to interrupt or drop totem flag carrier going down twitch to drop link totem feral Druid has insta cast cc up start the hex so when he pops there is the cc on them come on really are you having trouble blasting the feilds and dodging things come on when water starts to splash on you and you need to heal more quick do your own blast or how about when fire licks your nuts blast for some group might omg warrior is about to bash me dodge get over this twitch thing and if you are having problems there is a white powder that can get you all hyped up

this is the best post in this thread, and likely this entire forum.

Flamfloz.6732:

Benjamin.7893:

Pvp in this game isn’t difficult at all not even for MMO’s. Take Aion for example most classes pretty much require you to have <50ms ping. Not to mention a necesary mechanic like weaving takes longer to master than all of gw2’s classes combined.

Ping and weaving? That’s not inherently difficult PvP, that’s poorly implemented PvP then, which makes it difficult to play.
I’m thoroughly impressed that you have mastered all the classes in GW2, though.

Heck, chess is easy to play. How many of chess masters are there though?

Disagree. The last thing you want in an action combat MMO is to turn on auto attack and have that account for what? 30% of total dmg simply being there passively? I’d very much welcome weaving in gw2.

As for ping it’s also required in gw2 an example is 2 p/d thief duels. However it’s much more limited, because in general there isn’t much skils that require you to counter under 250ms. Not to mention the way too big margin of error on most classes/builds.

I find the game to be fairly simple and not difficult at all (although it does require good reflexes that’s true).

My criticism of the game would be that due to the limited skill and build system every successful build relies on 1-2 powerful tricks/moves.

Unlike other MMOs where you’d need to learn their entire kitten nal of skills, in GW2 things are far simpler.

The limited skill-system also means that not everyone is equipped to deal with every situation. So there are many more hard-counters and one-sided fights. Whereas in WoW any class could always put up a reasonable fight in GW2 if you are the wrong build vs. the wrong class then it’s over pretty quickly.

That’s a big reason why PvP is overall a lot less satisfying.

Dee Jay.2460:

My criticism of the game would be that due to the limited skill and build system every successful build relies on 1-2 powerful tricks/moves.

Unlike other MMOs where you’d need to learn their entire kitten nal of skills, in GW2 things are far simpler.

I won’t agree with “limited skill and build” system. There are many skills in this game which may be used for different things and in different situations. Big amount of skills means nothing, “skill” is using right things in right time, managing your resourses, and it’s definitely not just clicking on one of your 100 buttons when X happens.

OP (Silentshoes.1805),
There is nothing wrong with building yourself up. You are obviously proud of what you achieve in GW2. I am happy for you. In truth the PvP players tend to fail in WvW. There is more to deal with in WvW. Dedicated PvP players are the type that get overly agitated when enemy numbers push the <convoluted> balance envelope, or when lag interferes with the <so-called> twitch response or rotation. PvP players usually experience psychological regression in the WvW environment, and the PvP arena feels like a safer place to them. It is more predictable. It is easier to analyze. It is consistent. The mindset that PvP gameplay syncs with best is in-the-box thinking. Playing WvW requires a mind that accommodates change, and is highly creative when problem solving; therefore, roamers in WvW will tend to be strong in those regards.

I stopped playing PvP early on mainly because it was too easy. Recently I have been posting about how ele has become a weak class. Just to make sure it wasn’t my skills that fell off a cliff I created a new warrior for hotjoin. There was a warrior that people were saying always dominated. I wrecked him without feeling a bit a difficulty. I didn’t die once in three matches. It certainly was not me and my paltry WvW skill level.