Guild Wars 2

Would you watch GW2, as an E-sport?

There has been much talk of ambition from the GW staff, especially one of their main goals with PvP: becoming an E-sport. It never even struck me as kitten before I thought about what makes a good E-sport.

I’d say that you would not watch something that offers little entertainement value, let’s say watching grass grow. You’d watch something that’s fast paced and upredictable, or heavy on the strategy side with a variety of playstyles and ways to mix the fray.

At the time I last played tourneys it was a game of hunkering down and aiming for a single purpose: Do not die. With the added tactical benefit of: Stay in the circle.
This does not make for entertaining watching. I can only imagine the commentary: “Player one STILL alive. Yepp, weather is fine today. Not even slight rain outside as player two and three again unload their brust into player one that just takes it and goes on trucking. I once had a cat.”

So what I want to know, and would love an answer from someone that has some knowledge of this whole “E-sports” struggle for SPvP is:
Why do you think the current PvP makes for a entertaining watch?

I can understand that WvWvW offers more in this regard, but there are a lot more pressing matters in SPvP that could do well with more info than: “We are gonna let ppl watch while you suffer!” (Not Anets actuall words) I wont bring these issues up as there are sufficent threads on the forums for that if anyone wants to read about it.

I think that it all depends on how the spectator mode works. While tourneys may feel alittle stale just watching them right now it is more like watching dota 2 as a lol player, you have an idea whats going on but no grasp on the finesse that you do with other games. When people start to see what is really happening I think that GW2 has a lot more excitement in a lot of ways. The real problem is that you are now fighting in three dimensions and that is a lot harder to capture on camera. In lol or starcraft you only have to worry about zooming on top of the action and you will catch everything. In GW2 you have to worry about terrain, angles, underwater, and scope of the shot and that does not even take into account the fact that there will be more action happening on the screen at once. In lol or starcraft most of the fights are centralized on one point while in GW2 everything is a lot more volatile and you can have upwards of 4 fights happening at once depending on the team comp. So not only will it be extremely challenging for the camera work but it looks like it will be just as hard for either casters or viewers to catch the important stuff. But the game is still young and people know these issues and if it can be taken care of in the right manner I think it will be just as fun if not more exciting than the major players out there today.

Freecam with functionallity allowing spectators to jump to events (hpdrop-based etc) should allow sufficent cam controll. There are other games which have delt with similar cam challanges before and lived to tell the tale.

But you’d honestly want to watch 40 minutes of bunkergames? Bringing Dota 2 in to this makes me sick tho, that is a dynamic and vibrant game that changes from month to month, sometimes week to week when players find new combinations and strategies to play out. When you see “new” lineups in GW2, I at least thought: “Get a load of these guys, lets wipe them over.” And we oft did, by capping early and never dying to less than 1on3.

this game will never be an esport

“e-sports” are a joke, the global audience for the most popular e-sports finals are less the equivalent of two episodes of what a daytime quiz programme used to get in the UK, if you take out China & South Korea out of the viewing figures it is even more feeble.

LoL apparently peaks at 3 million users a day, and 32 million each month, so even the majority of their own players are not interested in watching it, and that is LoL which is far, far more watched than any other “e-sport”.

Watching other people play computer games is simply not that interesting.

Sylosi.6503:

“e-sports” are a joke, the global audience for the most popular e-sports finals are less the equivalent of two episodes of what a daytime quiz programme used to get in the UK, if you take out China & South Korea out of the viewing figures it is even more feeble.

LoL apparently peaks at 3 million users a day, and 32 million each month, so even the majority of their own players are not interested in watching it, and that is LoL which is far, far more watched than any other “e-sport”.

Watching other people play computer games is simply not that interesting.

And that is your opinion.

Sylosi.6503:

“e-sports” are a joke, the global audience for the most popular e-sports finals are less the equivalent of two episodes of what a daytime quiz programme used to get in the UK, if you take out China & South Korea out of the viewing figures it is even more feeble.

LoL apparently peaks at 3 million users a day, and 32 million each month, so even the majority of their own players are not interested in watching it, and that is LoL which is far, far more watched than any other “e-sport”.

Watching other people play computer games is simply not that interesting.

That infomation is incorrect. You couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.. Just no

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Sylosi.6503:

“e-sports” are a joke, the global audience for the most popular e-sports finals are less the equivalent of two episodes of what a daytime quiz programme used to get in the UK, if you take out China & South Korea out of the viewing figures it is even more feeble.

LoL apparently peaks at 3 million users a day, and 32 million each month, so even the majority of their own players are not interested in watching it, and that is LoL which is far, far more watched than any other “e-sport”.

Watching other people play computer games is simply not that interesting.

And that is your opinion.

Well a little a bit is my opinion, but then that goes without saying, so quite why you feel the need to comment on it, is a mystery, most posts in this forum have opinion in them, you have a busy day ahead of you, informing people of the bleeding obvious.

How the viewing figures compare, how even most LoL players don’t even bother watching, how the viewing figures for other games are much lower than LoL, etc are not opinion, they are facts.

Clunge.9164:

Sylosi.6503:

“e-sports” are a joke, the global audience for the most popular e-sports finals are less the equivalent of two episodes of what a daytime quiz programme used to get in the UK, if you take out China & South Korea out of the viewing figures it is even more feeble.

LoL apparently peaks at 3 million users a day, and 32 million each month, so even the majority of their own players are not interested in watching it, and that is LoL which is far, far more watched than any other “e-sport”.

Watching other people play computer games is simply not that interesting.

That infomation is incorrect. You couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.. Just no

What exactly is incorrect then?

Sylosi.6503:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Sylosi.6503:

“e-sports” are a joke, the global audience for the most popular e-sports finals are less the equivalent of two episodes of what a daytime quiz programme used to get in the UK, if you take out China & South Korea out of the viewing figures it is even more feeble.

LoL apparently peaks at 3 million users a day, and 32 million each month, so even the majority of their own players are not interested in watching it, and that is LoL which is far, far more watched than any other “e-sport”.

Watching other people play computer games is simply not that interesting.

And that is your opinion.

Well a little a bit is my opinion, but then that goes without saying, so quite why you feel the need to comment on it, is a mystery, most posts in this forum have opinion in them, you have a busy day ahead of you, informing people of the bleeding obvious.

How the viewing figures compare, how even most LoL players don’t even bother watching, how the viewing figures for other games are much lower than LoL, etc are not opinion, they are facts.

Have you heard of opinionated facts? Probably not or you would not have maybe this post in the first place.

People have the right to do what the want when they want. Or even some people just can’t watch all the time . I know I personally choose to watch Dota 2 over LoL, because it’s my opinion that Dota 2 is a better game, not a fact.

When you have people with their darned schedules and real-life things (oh how real-life can get in the way) it skews numbers on monthly and daily things like that.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Have you heard of opinionated facts?

The fact that only 13,800 results appear on google and the first entry is for urbandictionary suggests not having heard of it, is not a great loss, upon reading the urbandictionary entry, it appears I am correct.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

People have the right to do what the want when they want. Or even some people just can’t watch all the time . I know I personally choose to watch Dota 2 over LoL, because it’s my opinion that Dota 2 is a better game, not a fact.

When you have people with their darned schedules and real-life things (oh how real-life can get in the way) it skews numbers on monthly and daily things like that.

I don’t see the relevance, that applies to whatever people wish to do in their freetime, watching “e-sports” fares badly compared to other options, it is not popular, it is not even popular amongst people who play computer games or even amongst people playing the game itself.

Sylosi.6503:

Clunge.9164:

Sylosi.6503:

Clunge.9164:

Sylosi.6503:

“e-sports” are a joke, the global audience for the most popular e-sports finals are less the equivalent of two episodes of what a daytime quiz programme used to get in the UK, if you take out China & South Korea out of the viewing figures it is even more feeble.

LoL apparently peaks at 3 million users a day, and 32 million each month, so even the majority of their own players are not interested in watching it, and that is LoL which is far, far more watched than any other “e-sport”.

Watching other people play computer games is simply not that interesting.

That infomation is incorrect. You couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.. Just no

What exactly is so terribly wrong then?

Go back to your jeremy kyle, this is a real forum for men

So basically you make some silly claim about things beign incorrrect, but can’t back it up with facts.

Well for one thing you’re comparing E-sports to T.V. Your saying “even the majority” of League players don’t watch League streams. How many people on this earth DONT watch football games? Football is a sport, alot of people watch it and even more don’t. Using the arguement that most players dont watch league streams, and using it in a negative way is possibly the most stupid arguement i have ever heard.

“Watching other people play computer games is simply not that interesting.” Perhaps for you, but 32 million other people think otherwise. I’m not even sure those figures are correct, but if they are just look at what you’re typing.

Your entitled to your opinion and thats fine, as im entitled to express my opinion on what you posted, love you bro

EDIT:: To answer OP’s question, no this game is kitten, it will never be an esport

I think you guys are taking requirements of eSports for granted. For anything to be a sport, there needs to be a sort of engagement with the viewing of the game. This implies that the audience and their attention is what the developers need to design for, and that’s a totally different ballpark than game balance or mechanics.

I’d wager that first games that did succeed in becoming the golden geese of eSports did so because they had the benefit of luck. They came with the right things, at the right time and in the right conditions. Prospective game companies looking for a slice of the pie have to interpret preexisting conditions and create ones for themselves to succeed. That can be tough since, with design in general, the superficial can often masks underlying substance and you can end up looking at the wrong things.

It also doesn’t help that the relative number of people interested in any kind of eSport at all is small. In the US, eSports are having problems taking off at all. If ANet do decide to devote time to designing a working infrastructure, they’ll have to compete for an even smaller fraction of the little pie or pioneer it towards unclaimed masses.

Thinking back, the decision to go for eSports was a very ambitious one and I think there might be something to be said about how players are skeptical only now.

As for necessary eSport features… I think it’s been covered before, but the game needs a robust method for viewing games. The observer mode that people constantly bring up will certaintly help those already in-game, but for them I think there needs to be something as accessible as the replay system that Starcraft and most MOBAs use. It’d let players learn from this visual aid all the same, but at their own pace. But these only help people who already have the game. For viewers that don’t have the game installed, something along the lines of a built-in recorder to that uploads directly to youtube or a stream can only help to facilitate content sharing with them.

Sylosi.6503:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Have you heard of opinionated facts?

The fact that only 13,800 resutls appear on google and the first entry is for urbandictionary suggests not having heard of it, is not a great loss, upon reading the urbandictionary entry, it appears I am correct.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

People have the right to do what the want when they want. Or even some people just can’t watch all the time . I know I personally choose to watch Dota 2 over LoL, because it’s my opinion that Dota 2 is a better game, not a fact.

When you have people with their darned schedules and real-life things (oh how real-life can get in the way) it skews numbers on monthly and daily things like that.

I don’t see the relevance, that applies to whatever people wish to do in their freetime, watching “e-sports” fares badly compared to other options, it is not popular, it is not even popular amongst people who play computer games or even amongst people playing the game itself.

Okay, I am going to start calling you, “kid” because there is no way you can know that e-sports is only more than like 12 years old. The first esports were quake live, brood war, and CS 1.6. And you say the most popular e sport event was LoL. That tells me kid you don’t even know that people get net salaries for these games yada yada. Maybe in about 30 years when it gets time to GROW and games like Guild Wars 2 get time to develop will help esports.

But, I am sure you don’t understand that do you? Poor kid.

Clunge.9164:

Well for one thing you’re comparing E-sports to T.V. Your saying “even the majority” of League players don’t watch League streams. How many people on this earth DONT watch football games? Football is a sport, alot of people watch it and even more don’t. Using the arguement that most players dont watch league streams, and using it in a negative way is possibly the most stupid arguement i have ever heard.

Surely the stupidest argument you have ever heard is the one you’ve just made? According to Sport England the number of people who regularly play football is a bit over 2 million, when England played Italy in Euro 2012 the viewing figures peaked at about 23 million.

That most of the people who regularly play LoL are not even interested in watching it, speaks volumes.

Clunge.9164:

Perhaps for you, but 32 million other people think otherwise. I’m not even sure those figures are correct, but if they are just look at what you’re typing.

32 million people don’t think otherwise, 32 million people regularly play LoL, most of them don’t watch it (the finals got a worldwide viewing figure of about 8 million, some watched on TV)

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Okay, I am going to start calling you, “kid” because there is no way you can know that e-sports is only more than like 12 years old.

From someone using the phrase “more than like 12 years old”, that is pretty funny, but if you think it makes for a compelling logical argument to call me kid, rather than making you look silly, feel free.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

And you say the most popular e sport event was LoL. That tells me kid you don’t even know that people get net salaries for these games yada yada.

People get salaries for all sorts of things, they are not all popular, compared to other forms of entertainment or even compared to the number of people who play video games, neither are “esports”.

I believe LoL is currently the most popular, if there is another more popular event then give the figures for it .

Sylosi.6503:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Okay, I am going to start calling you, “kid” because there is no way you can know that e-sports is only more than like 12 years old.

From someone using the phrase “more than like 12 years old”, that is pretty funny, but if you think it makes for a compelling ligical argument to call me kid, rather than making you look silly, feel free.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

And you say the most popular e sport event was LoL. That tells me kid you don’t even know that people get net salaries for these games yada yada.

People get salaries for all sorts of things, they are not all popular, compared to other forms of entertainment or even compared to the number of people who play video games, neither are “esports”.

I believe LoL is currently the most popular, if there is another more popular event then give the figures for it .

Hey kid totally glad you missed you the point but it’s okay kid. I will just re-explain it. E-sports needs to grow, and Anet is doing a good thing here by developing the game as one from release.

E-sports is still fresh after (since you want me to exact and accurate) 15 years. And after about 30 maybe even 20 years will have more revenue.

Again you probably won’t understand. Poor kid

EDIT: I am going to bed this was fun, maybe you will undetstand/stop trolling when you grow up.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Hey kid totally glad you missed you the point but it’s okay kid. I will just re-explain it. E-sports needs to grow, and Anet is doing a good thing here by developing the game as one from release.

E-sports is still fresh after (since you want me to exact and accurate) 15 years. And after about 30 maybe even 20 years will have more revenue.

Again you probably won’t understand. Poor kid

EDIT: I am going to bed this was fun, maybe you will undetstand/stop trolling when you grow up.

It may need to grow, but then it may just be flawed as an idea, currently the facts are it is not popular, even amongst those actively interested in video games or even amongst those that play the “esport” games themselves.

When you grow up, you will learn to accept people have differing opinons and to respond in a less childish manner when someone puts forth an opinion you disagree with.

Sylosi.6503:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Hey kid totally glad you missed you the point but it’s okay kid. I will just re-explain it. E-sports needs to grow, and Anet is doing a good thing here by developing the game as one from release.

E-sports is still fresh after (since you want me to exact and accurate) 15 years. And after about 30 maybe even 20 years will have more revenue.

Again you probably won’t understand. Poor kid

EDIT: I am going to bed this was fun, maybe you will undetstand/stop trolling when you grow up.

It may need to grow, but then it may just be flawed as an idea, currently the facts are it is not popular, even amongst those actively interested in video games or even amongst those that play the “esport” games themselves.

When you grow up, you will learn to accept people have differing opinons and to respond in a less childish manner when someone puts forth an opinion you disagree with.

Still awake lulz. But I do accept people for the opinions they have. And yes the kid gets it. E-sports are not popular right now . I don’t know if anyone else has noticed the sudden spurt of game developers making their games as esports though.

It’s a new marketing trick so, I guess that answers that OP. Good night.

Sylosi.6503:

Clunge.9164:

Well for one thing you’re comparing E-sports to T.V. Your saying “even the majority” of League players don’t watch League streams. How many people on this earth DONT watch football games? Football is a sport, alot of people watch it and even more don’t. Using the arguement that most players dont watch league streams, and using it in a negative way is possibly the most stupid arguement i have ever heard.

Surely the stupidest argument you have ever heard is the one you’ve just made? According to Sport England the number of people who regularly play football is a bit over 2 million, when England played Italy in Euro 2012 the viewing figures peaked at about 23 million.

That most of the people who regularly play LoL are not even interested in watching it, speaks volumes.

Clunge.9164:

Perhaps for you, but 32 million other people think otherwise. I’m not even sure those figures are correct, but if they are just look at what you’re typing.

32 million people don’t think otherwise, 32 million people regularly play LoL, most of them don’t watch it (the finals got a worldwide viewing figure of about 8 million, some watched on TV)

Nice Strawman.

According to wikipedia Football is played by 250million people worldwide, using your figure of 23million viewers just over 9% of the population that play it also watch it (obviously this isn’t entirely true, many people watch but don’t play).

Comparatively 25% of the LoL population is interested in the World finals. Let’s not forget that LoL has been through only two seasons of play while Football has been around for over 100 years.

I could say that “most people who play football aren’t interested in watching it” my statement would be correct but ultimately meaningless.

As for GW2 becoming an esport, it will probably never happen. Arenanet has made it quite clear that sPvP is a sideshow, PVE and WvWvW are what the game is about and consequently these areas have received the most attention.

tasbury.3674:

According to wikipedia Football is played by 250million people worldwide, using your figure of 23million viewers just over 9% of the population that play it also watch it (obviously this isn’t entirely true, many people watch but don’t play).

Comparatively 25% of the LoL population is interested in the World finals. Let’s not forget that LoL has been through only two seasons of play while Football has been around for over 100 years.

I could say that “most people who play football aren’t interested in watching it” my statement would be correct but ultimately meaningless.

Your maths are incorrect.

My 23 million viewers was the UK audience, as I was comparing it to the number of people in England who regularly play football.

So if you want to start doing a global comparision then you need to look at a global audience, which was around 700 million for the last world cup final, not 23m.

Bickering aside, go watch some sPvP streams on Twitch. is it exciting? Not really.

I haven’t played WoW in a few years, but watching Reckful’s arena streams are more entertaining than sPvP will ever be. It’s not because it’s Reckful, I don’t know anything about him except he’s a top player, but that WoW’s high-end arena is actually entertaining to watch. Can’t say the same for sPvP. At least not conquest-style sPvP.

Conquest-style would require some amazing spectator tools to make it watch-worthy.

Most GW2 players aren’t even interested in PvP and you expect it to become an e-sport?

You need 4 main things for e-sports to happen:

1. Easy to get in. The game need to be acceptableness any one and easy to start playing and understand basic concepts of game. At the same time it needs to be so simple that people who don’t play it can watch it and have good guess what’s going on.

2. E-sports need to be the same thing that people do while regularly playing, the skill ceiling must be infinite so people watching can see immediately why they are not pros.

3. The game must be absolutely balanced by the community finding counters to “OP” builds in a volatile shifting meta game. Changes in metagame is a main reason why people watch e-sports.

4. Spectator mode made in way that gives the spectator all the information of both teams and players and is able to seamlessly go from full overview to player perspective. The main charm is to see will a pro player do right decision with the limited information he has while the spectator already knows the all information beforehand.

^ Translated from Reddit Engrish. Full thread here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/16lxj9/esports/

E-sports are not happening anytime soon.

give me ladder, matchmaking, soloQ, observer,

then

i will answer your question.

-pvp community (or only me)

1. Easy to get in. The game need to be acceptableness any one and easy to start playing and understand basic concepts of game. At the same time it needs to be so simple that people who don’t play it can watch it and have good guess what’s going on.

This is the primary reason GW2’s conquest-style would not fly for spectating, unless ArenaNet made a very good spectating client that provided information in a way a complete outsider could understand.

Professional sports thrive on spectators who themselves do not play the sport. Most people who watch baseball or basketball probably do not play either sport.

ArenaNet can’t assume its E-Sport spectating is only for people who play the game, or it will never go anywhere.

i most definitely WOULD if the spectator camera was implemented well. we should be able to teleport to different areas of the map with a top down view, as well as switch between different players’ perspectives.

once matchmaking is out, the game will be easy to get into. gw2 is a lot of fun to watch, which is why people have made a ton of youtube vids.

The major point would be sectator mode. Games which have a god view like star craft or LoL are much better to watch, and make for a better e-sports entertainment. Therefore the spectator view should not be a 3rd person view but a god view.

Second problem with GW2 are the particle effects. You can’t see anything when 10 player on one spot bash on each other. The spector mode needs to fix that so you can actually see what people are doing.

The last thing is the balance. The balance of the classes and class synergies is all over the place. This needs to be addressed before any half way interesting e-sports can happen, which by the way means not that there has to be a perfect balance between all classes and synergies. But there has to be certain counters for certain classes and combos aka a meta game, which imo currently is not really there.

I’d watch it. If there was a good spectating client. One that is delayed by 3 minutes, but allows for free movement – such as flying and stuff. Then yes, I’d totally watch good players play.

I did watch it.. Especially with a good commentator. The problem is.. Will we have any players to play the games or watch them?

Anyways I had something I wanted to say that actually helped this thread. But got erased because I got logged out T_T

Guild Wars 2 is something new to e-sports – I don’t just mean as in a game – the conquest mode is completely different, and not to many games have tried to do this yet. This alone can draw people to the game that like the MMO genre. But let’s talk about how combat is. I don’t know if any of you have heard of Blade & Soul. Guild Wars 2 combat reminds of that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3_VmSiHMC4 This is when the game was still in beta.

I have been in to esports since I was 12 (I am 20 years old), and have been following the games ever since. I know how games start, how they fall, and most importantly how they grow.

Speaking of games growing, some may not know why LoL got so big. LoL was the first stand alone MOBA esport. That attracted a lot of revenue, also because it was the first successful dota clone. It still took about a year and a half for the game to start growing, and become an esport. People here on this forums expected roughly 4 and 1/2 months after release to become esport? Seriously?

Final thoughts. This game, and esports in general need time to grow. Look at smite, a game that is still in beta. Or even Dota 2, (bad example) uh…Shootmania, yeah! Well all three of those games are still in beta, (don’t count dota 2 it has been around way to long) and are starting to grow as a game, and are healthy for esports.

Look at this more optimistically, instead of a pessimistic kitten, obviously you have your own right to be a kitten that’s fine, but why? The OP was trying to get positive and maybe some negative feedback here.

go watch the Lowell vid that was posted. its boring and just a bunch of out numbered fights once they establish point control. spectating conquest is flat out lame

Let’s take a look at the average of people watching GW2 through sites like Twitch which is the main gaming stream site.

GW2 : 288 viewers
LOL : 42,320 viewers
UMVC3 : 6,775 viewers

Just on insight on what the majority deem interesting to watch.

I really wanted GW2 to work as an e-sport, but I was always skeptical about how enjoyable conquest would be to watch. I was pretty involved in watching and playing paid tournaments, and really tried to make it work, but ultimately I had to admit that I really don’t like playing or watching conquest mode.

I don’t like the play it encourages (map control is very strait forward with 3 identical points that have no strategic impact beyond generating points, standing in circles limits the impact of positioning and creative use of terrain in fights, you play to run down the clock instead of playing to achieve a final goal etc.), and from a viewers perspective the game type has no rising action or climax.

The most popular e-sport games right now (mobas and RTS) tell a story, where players gain small advantages until a climax is reached and a winner is determined. Even in fighting games there are often special meters that build up and increase the intensity of the combat as fights progress and special combos are unlocked. Intensity also increases as players get closer to death, which is an intuitive, visceral endpoint. 500 points is not an intuitive endpoint, and it doesn’t come in a moment of climax.

The problem is there’s a disconnect between the exciting moment of accomplishing something (capturing a point/wiping a team) and the scoring moments that get you closer to victory (sitting on a point/staying alive/waiting) that makes the game less exciting to watch. The most exciting endings I have had in GW2 were guild lord rushes on foefire, and I attribute that mostly to the fact that you accomplish something significant in the moment of victory, instead of taking point control and then winning 10 minutes later.

There is a lot of drama that can occur, especially with the downed state in this game. The fast pace is also quite exciting.

I’m currently trying to get into Dota 2 and the replays are a snoozefest. I watch them in order to learn the game, but they’re far from exciting. The pacing is ridiculously slow.

I can see it work but it will never reach LoL or SC2 level of popularity, in my opinion. I’ve watched most of the casted matches around and some non-casted and I find them entertaining, altough painful to follow without a proper observer mode and “trained” casters.

@ Sylosi so your argument is basically that if something is not popular, it sucks and it is a joke? Really? I thought that humanity, as a whole, was well past the notion that popularity =/= quality, but since you still haven’t gotten that, let’s pretend your argument is worthy. Do you know how big was Brood War and it’s esport scene in South Korea? What tells you something similar can’t/will not happen in other countries? After all, if 70m people find entertaining watching some guys kick a ball around…

nurt.5401:

I really wanted GW2 to work as an e-sport, but I was always skeptical about how enjoyable conquest would be to watch. I was pretty involved in watching and playing paid tournaments, and really tried to make it work, but ultimately I had to admit that I really don’t like playing or watching conquest mode.

I don’t like the play it encourages (map control is very strait forward with 3 identical points that have no strategic impact beyond generating points, standing in circles limits the impact of positioning and creative use of terrain in fights, you play to run down the clock instead of playing to achieve a final goal etc.), and from a viewers perspective the game type has no rising action or climax.

The most popular e-sport games right now (mobas and RTS) tell a story, where players gain small advantages until a climax is reached and a winner is determined. Even in fighting games there are often special meters that build up and increase the intensity of the combat as fights progress and special combos are unlocked. Intensity also increases as players get closer to death, which is an intuitive, visceral endpoint. 500 points is not an intuitive endpoint, and it doesn’t come in a moment of climax.

The problem is there’s a disconnect between the exciting moment of accomplishing something (capturing a point/wiping a team) and the scoring moments that get you closer to victory (sitting on a point/staying alive/waiting) that makes the game less exciting to watch. The most exciting endings I have had in GW2 were guild lord rushes on foefire, and I attribute that mostly to the fact that you accomplish something significant in the moment of victory, instead of taking point control and then winning 10 minutes later.

i’ve never seen so much truth in a single post in these forums for months.

Another thing i would add, is the absolute lack of criticism by a good portion of current top players.

They sit in their meta ( probably because they enjoy it, otherwise they wouldn’t play so much) without accounting for the huge frustration coming for casuals when they play against common meta comps ( something that clearly doesn’t encourage new players to play PvP), and believing that “everything is fine, L2P”.

I wonder how much better it would be if maps were larger, bunker-burst extremes were nerfed and the capturing mechanic changed in order to favour capping when outnumbered, in order to prevent stale bunkers to be left alone handling 2+ non-counter classes.

Surely the game would be a lot more dynamic.

And please, aNet, do something to encourage PvE players to try PvP ( PvE rewards awarded in PvP, glory traded for karma or gold or tokens, whatever) , because without a playerbase there’s no e-sport.

And the playerbase is already very, very thin, at least in PvP.

capping should be an interaction with a point that can be interrupted but only takes a few seconds to flip. that way a simple knockdown and stun can allow for a flip so we dont have these boring kitten bunkers just sitting in a circle

Sprawl.3891:

capping should be an interaction with a point that can be interrupted but only takes a few seconds to flip. that way a simple knockdown and stun can allow for a flip so we dont have these boring kitten bunkers just sitting in a circle

Stealth capping all the way.

At least in WoW, rogues were slower while stealthed, here wtih a single trait , the thief goes at permaswiftness while stealthed ( and it’s bugged, since it should go at 50 %).

Moreover, that would keep thieves weak in every other area aside burst ( like they’re currently) while i believe the thief is the class needing most buff in order to have more viable build*S*, and not just a single one.

Even more, in this game there’s a ridicolous amount of CCs, so that only stability would allow to cap the point that way.

overall it could be cool, but i don’t think currently is THAT balanced.