GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: Arconon.4857

Arconon.4857

Title should say “… clear[er]…” but was too long.

I’ve always been interested in the competitive GW2 scene, and I would love to spectate the matches between really good teams more often.
But every time I do (like during the Stronghold beta right now), I’m put off because it’s too hard/confusing to follow the action.

There are many reasons why it’s much harder to follow a GW2 match than for example a MOBA like LoL.

Some things like the variety of skills each character can use or the speed of combat cannot be changed of course. But there other things that would make spectating so much easier.

1) Differently-colored health bars.
It really boggles my mind why such an obvious thing hasn’t been addressed yet. The PCs of both teams have green health bars (the enemy NPCs have red bars though….). This makes it very hard to follow the fast-paced GW2 combat.
-> Green health bars (friendly), red bars (hostile) and always visible, not only when PC is focused on
*not sure but color-blind people may need different colors (blue & red?)

When spectating you should be able to easily identify the different teams. Every information that doesn’t support clarity should go, such as

2) No name plates or character titles.
They only distract from the important informaton and that is the health bar (and profession).

BTW if you compare how information is displayed in LoL and Dota2, you realize that LoL does a much better job. The slightly different colors Dota2 uses for PCs of the same team are unnecessary, unintuitive and have always made it very confusing and hard for me to follow the action.

I strongly believe it’s these little things that make a good esports title a great esports title. And for me as a spectator visual clarity is the most important aspect.

3) Make professions easier to identify.
This might not be easy to achieve but I think it’s equally important.
Of course you could argue that once you see the spell/skill effects it’s clear that the PC is a thief or necro but my problem with it is that it’s not as easy as it could be and it again makes it harder to see what’s going on at first glance.

Some of the reasons that seem to blur all the characters into one unidentifiable mass are:
a) Professions don’t have a distinct look, i.e. are not easily identifiable.
They can wield similar weapons and wear similar armor.
b) Professions can be played by all races.
The races itself are easily identifiable but the professions they play aren’t.
So when I see an Asura, my first reaction is: Ahh an Asura but I can’t tell at the same split second whether he’s an Asura elementalist, or Asura thief, or ranger or even warrior….

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to change any of this. Character customization is one of the strong points of GW2 but it doesn’t help when spectating matches.

So even when the PCs are only running around and not spamming their abilities, you should be able to recognize their professions AT ONCE!

Possible solutions:
1) Every profession has an easily recognizable armor dye.
2) Every profession displays an easily recognizable icon, and by easy I mean much clearer and bigger icons than those we have now. The icons should be visible on the mini map as well.
3) A combination of both.
4) Anything really that makes me see which character and team I’m looking at.

tl;dr:
Visual clarity has to be priority no 1!
Teams and professions have to be recognizable at once! Within a split-second!

Because GW2’s action and camera movement are too fast-paced to make spectating accessible or fun.

Arc

Sorry for the long text but this has really bugged me since day1 of sPvP, even before spectating became a thing.

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: Vieux P.1238

Vieux P.1238

Angrybirds has more of a chance to be Esport. This game will never be Esport.

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: PowerBottom.5796

PowerBottom.5796

/agreed, I’ve made a thread about this not too long ago….

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/How-to-make-GW2-more-spectator-friendly-1/first#content

I’ve actually thought about sth. very drastic that many ppl wouldn’t really like, but that would help spectating tremendously:

- Heavy Armor —> Charr
- Medium Armor —> Human
- Light Armor —> Asura

Just as an option for spectating.

(edited by PowerBottom.5796)

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: Azure The Heartless.3261

Azure The Heartless.3261

ITT: “This game will never be e-sports” when Anet has never mentioned that was its goal in the first place

You cant take a game seriously where cats wear pompadours.

Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: Shylock.4653

Shylock.4653

but that would help spectating tremendously:

- Heavy Armor —> Charr
- Medium Armor --> Human
- Light Armor —> Asura

Just as an option for spectating.

Well that doesn’t help much. For example there are 3 totally different classes which wears light armor.

Optionally use “Standard Enemy Models”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pvp-visual-and-reward-updates/

for spectating would solve this problem better.

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: PowerBottom.5796

PowerBottom.5796

but that would help spectating tremendously:

- Heavy Armor —> Charr
- Medium Armor --> Human
- Light Armor —> Asura

Just as an option for spectating.

Well that doesn’t help much. For example there are 3 totally different classes which wears light armor.

Optionally use “Standard Enemy Models”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pvp-visual-and-reward-updates/

for spectating would solve this problem better.

Oh wow, didn’t actually knew that the Standard enemy models entailed specific armor/weapons for each class, thats great!

Why do we not see this in spectating?

I mean: They can show how the chars look in all their glory at the beginning of the game when they show the builds….

If you add that Standard enemy model stuff with stronger teamcolors, I think the spectating would already be much better.

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: Killer.1076

Killer.1076

Green health bars (friendly), red bars (hostile) and always visible, not only when PC is focused on
*not sure but color-blind people may need different colors (blue & red?)

already given isn’t it enough that they have blue and red names ??
and the health bar and the name is always there and you can always watch at them they don’t disappear

Make professions easier to identify.

already given too ! they can be indentified by the bars at the side of your monitor (take a look at the attachement)

Attachments:

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

The problem isn’t just healthbars and nameplates, it is skill visuals. League of Legends in the last year or so completely remade their entire map and is redoing the visuals on tons of champions just to make sure that there is a very clear visual hierarchy for skills>champions>map. And among skills it is always very obvious what is going to happen, the abilities make sense and even if you’ve never played league before you will quickly have an idea of what is going on.

But this isn’t true in GW2. Effects are far too common, especially professions like Elementalist who have Disneyland tier light shows for every single ability. They need to go through and at the very least have a spectator system that reworks the ability visuals to be much more balanced for viewing.

But of Corpse – Watch us on YouTube
My PvP Minion Build

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: Wile.5024

Wile.5024

This and the other thread had good suggestions, anet should implement most of these. Even if game isn’t super #esports (atm, maybe never according to some) , making the game better to play and spectate should be a no-brainer for the devs.

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: Niminion.1982

Niminion.1982

Seriously yes.

Recently came back and of course tried to do pvp yesterday after being gone since release.

1. Health bars are too kitten small and everything has the same one. Hard to tell who or what I even have selected, who is an npc and who is a player.
2. On hit effects from multiple people are too much, how can I tell what an enemy is doing from a subtle animation when they are glowing like a sparkler?
3. No cast bars? Am I missing something? What is instant and what can be interrupted, I have no idea.

I basically had no idea what anyone else was doing during a group fight besides covering themselves with boons and making my health go down in the middle if a fireworks display.

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: JNooblessJ.2794

JNooblessJ.2794

Title should say “… clear[er]…” but was too long.

I’ve always been interested in the competitive GW2 scene, and I would love to spectate the matches between really good teams more often.
But every time I do (like during the Stronghold beta right now), I’m put off because it’s too hard/confusing to follow the action.

There are many reasons why it’s much harder to follow a GW2 match than for example a MOBA like LoL.

Some things like the variety of skills each character can use or the speed of combat cannot be changed of course. But there other things that would make spectating so much easier.

1) Differently-colored health bars.
It really boggles my mind why such an obvious thing hasn’t been addressed yet. The PCs of both teams have green health bars (the enemy NPCs have red bars though….). This makes it very hard to follow the fast-paced GW2 combat.
-> Green health bars (friendly), red bars (hostile) and always visible, not only when PC is focused on
*not sure but color-blind people may need different colors (blue & red?)

When spectating you should be able to easily identify the different teams. Every information that doesn’t support clarity should go, such as

2) No name plates or character titles.
They only distract from the important informaton and that is the health bar (and profession).

BTW if you compare how information is displayed in LoL and Dota2, you realize that LoL does a much better job. The slightly different colors Dota2 uses for PCs of the same team are unnecessary, unintuitive and have always made it very confusing and hard for me to follow the action.

I strongly believe it’s these little things that make a good esports title a great esports title. And for me as a spectator visual clarity is the most important aspect.

3) Make professions easier to identify.
This might not be easy to achieve but I think it’s equally important.
Of course you could argue that once you see the spell/skill effects it’s clear that the PC is a thief or necro but my problem with it is that it’s not as easy as it could be and it again makes it harder to see what’s going on at first glance.

Some of the reasons that seem to blur all the characters into one unidentifiable mass are:
a) Professions don’t have a distinct look, i.e. are not easily identifiable.
They can wield similar weapons and wear similar armor.
b) Professions can be played by all races.
The races itself are easily identifiable but the professions they play aren’t.
So when I see an Asura, my first reaction is: Ahh an Asura but I can’t tell at the same split second whether he’s an Asura elementalist, or Asura thief, or ranger or even warrior….

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to change any of this. Character customization is one of the strong points of GW2 but it doesn’t help when spectating matches.

So even when the PCs are only running around and not spamming their abilities, you should be able to recognize their professions AT ONCE!

Possible solutions:
1) Every profession has an easily recognizable armor dye.
2) Every profession displays an easily recognizable icon, and by easy I mean much clearer and bigger icons than those we have now. The icons should be visible on the mini map as well.
3) A combination of both.
4) Anything really that makes me see which character and team I’m looking at.

tl;dr:
Visual clarity has to be priority no 1!
Teams and professions have to be recognizable at once! Within a split-second!

Because GW2’s action and camera movement are too fast-paced to make spectating accessible or fun.

Arc

Sorry for the long text but this has really bugged me since day1 of sPvP, even before spectating became a thing.

We’re already esports k a r a o k e t o u r n a m e n t b o y z

Sir Noobless | Half God half Titan full king | Chaithhs #1 fanboy

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: Khalisto.5780

Khalisto.5780

Here are the 2 main reasons i believe GW2 will never be an e-sport

You have to pay for the game. I think the most if not all most succesful e-spors are free to play.

PvE and PvP use the same mechanics. That means they cant get the better balance in any of those modes. Imagine if they balance the classes perfectly for one of those modes, the other mode would suffer from OP/useless classes.

Love roaming builds and non meta silly builds.
Don’t worry boys, Blade and Soul is coming.

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

Buy to play doesn’t really matter, SC2 and CS:GO both require a purchase, as do fighting games. F2P just allows for a smaller % of the community to watch to get the same numbers, since the total size of the community will be larger.

But of Corpse – Watch us on YouTube
My PvP Minion Build

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: Aztex.4895

Aztex.4895

As I said on another thread, I agree with making considerable changes in colours and other stuff if we want gw2 to be a successfull esport.

But I also believe that it’s close to impossible to have a “real” (like LoL, Dota 2, CS and SC) esport from this game, simply because there are too many things to learn about it. It’s too complex and will scare spectators when they want simple things to understand.
I mean, look at it, in one match spectators will try to see and understand:
- minimum of 100 skills
- how all those skills work
- all the best individual combos of all those skills
- 10 trait builds
- all the major and minor traits effectiveness on each of those builds
- all the best group combos and how they work (basic knowledge of all their skills and traits combined required)
- Each team strategy (most of the time you can see many different strategies/tactics in only 1 match)
- each player movement+action = if it’s a good or bad choice?
- Who is each team?
- who is each player and what can he do?
- the map they are in and what are its objectives.
- many other stuff.

This is one reason why I think Stronghold is also not the “salvation” of gw2 for esports. It’s a better concept for spectators because it’s much more simple to understand player rotations and decisions, but it still has too much going on.

(edited by Aztex.4895)

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

Angrybirds has more of a chance to be Esport. This game will never be Esport.

^This, they can advertise it and promote in some cases in GW2 it’s better to watch then live. They should rather focus on the in game aspect of PvP give players who focus on other modes a reason to PvP this mode is dodged by many who only play the other two or use it as a training ground, some argue PvE is the main focus honestly I can’t really tell lol.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: Royal.2693

Royal.2693

I think visuals are just fine.

But I wish they would make big balance changes more often.

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: Khalisto.5780

Khalisto.5780

Angrybirds has more of a chance to be Esport. This game will never be Esport.

^This, they can advertise it and promote in some cases in GW2 it’s better to watch then live. They should rather focus on the in game aspect of PvP give players who focus on other modes a reason to PvP this mode is dodged by many who only play the other two or use it as a training ground, some argue PvE is the main focus honestly I can’t really tell lol.

PvE is actually ruining any chance for this game to be an Esport, I dont think any other Esports have any modes if not the competitive one, they were kinda born Esport they were not something else that tried to become an Esport.

Love roaming builds and non meta silly builds.
Don’t worry boys, Blade and Soul is coming.

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

Angrybirds has more of a chance to be Esport. This game will never be Esport.

^This, they can advertise it and promote in some cases in GW2 it’s better to watch then live. They should rather focus on the in game aspect of PvP give players who focus on other modes a reason to PvP this mode is dodged by many who only play the other two or use it as a training ground, some argue PvE is the main focus honestly I can’t really tell lol.

PvE is actually ruining any chance for this game to be an Esport, I dont think any other Esports have any modes if not the competitive one, they were kinda born Esport they were not something else that tried to become an Esport.

Unless You count WoW as one. Many argue it is an ESport and it didn’t even have pvp at release.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

Angrybirds has more of a chance to be Esport. This game will never be Esport.

^This, they can advertise it and promote in some cases in GW2 it’s better to watch then live. They should rather focus on the in game aspect of PvP give players who focus on other modes a reason to PvP this mode is dodged by many who only play the other two or use it as a training ground, some argue PvE is the main focus honestly I can’t really tell lol.

PvE is actually ruining any chance for this game to be an Esport, I dont think any other Esports have any modes if not the competitive one, they were kinda born Esport they were not something else that tried to become an Esport.

Unless You count WoW as one. Many argue it is an ESport and it didn’t even have pvp at release.

They don’t have to be a clone, if they can promote all 3 modes and attract and keep players PvP could become more popular as well other cough cough issues. The issue with heavy casual focus is that they don’t learn or want to learn to those who believe SH is for them the gap between players/premade skill is bigger there than in other modes.

They need to attract a more active population not people settling down because everything is worse right now like me lol going from C9 to GW2 was a major downgrade in action combat and PvP prowess lol if I ever come back to C9 I think I would get rekted.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: Khalisto.5780

Khalisto.5780

[/quote]
Unless You count WoW as one. Many argue it is an ESport and it didn’t even have pvp at release.[/quote]

WoW is hella rich tho, they can make anything they want with the game, while it seems Anet doesnt even have money to make some much needed fixes.

Love roaming builds and non meta silly builds.
Don’t worry boys, Blade and Soul is coming.

(edited by Khalisto.5780)

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: Sube Dai.8496

Sube Dai.8496

I think stronghold will give it a good chance, as the existing lol/dota audiences will already understand the game mode.

They just need to give it separate queues and tournaments…

John Snowman [GLTY]
Space Marine Z [GLTY]

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: BlackTruth.6813

BlackTruth.6813

1.) Better balancing principles such as deleting z-axis garbage and skull crack instant cast compared to overcharge instant cast
2.) Frequent balancing updates instead of waiting for months
3.) Actually separating Courtyard from Conquest to GET CASUALS INTO THE GAME

Just god.

twitch.tv/blacktruth009
Schwahrheit, #1 Fuhrer NA, Just your everyday typical rager

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: Siva Mira.3546

Siva Mira.3546

The first thing they really need to support Stronghold is a big giant Stability icon on top of your head. It is very crucial to play this map. As of now, I have no idea who has Stability with a quick glance on my screen.

All is vain.

GW2 needs clear visuals to be eSports viable

in PvP

Posted by: Khalisto.5780

Khalisto.5780

Getting casual into the game is really hard, i tried to bring many friends to the game, they just google and read the game reviews, it’s a lot easier finding one that says game is awful than one saying game is good, and then comes the fact you have to pay for the game, the answer i get is “I’m not paying for this kitten”.

Love roaming builds and non meta silly builds.
Don’t worry boys, Blade and Soul is coming.