Guild Wars 2

D/D, + perhaps Bunker Guard / Cele Nec / Invuln Engi
outsustain everything = gg

what is zerk even good for? it’s only useful for thief and mesmer because they rely on stealth either way

hope they revert the fire/air sigil change and nerf D/D ele thoroughly SOON

opinions?

A week ago these forums had plenty of QQs about damage being too high… Sometimes I wonder if people on the forums play the same game…

Krysard.1364:

A week ago these forums had plenty of QQs about damage being too high… Sometimes I wonder if people on the forums play the same game…

Lulz.

Nah

We culd give Rangers and Shiro-Revenant a wombo-combo to burst ppl in 2-3 sec and everything else will be balanced .

Its not like we get in a time loop again , where theres classes that can Burst in 2-3 sec and some other classes are Anit-bursts and the community or the ppl in tournaments will choose one or the other as a Meta .

Some sollutions for both problems will be solved by the community in 3-6 months till the x-pack release, without the wack-a-mole balance of the Devs

Krysard.1364:

A week ago these forums had plenty of QQs about damage being too high… Sometimes I wonder if people on the forums play the same game…

A big part of this was because a large part of the community may not have noticed that Berserker Ammy is now using proper Berserker stats. Now that the use of Marauder’s Ammy is more common people realized that the damage wasn’t changes that much.

the meta actually hardly changed, it’s just that Engi doesn’t work so well with Cele anymore and Mesmer is the new Thief.

Everyone says d/d cele ele needs nerfed. Most teams run at least one, if not two, so bringing that in line will help a lot.

The meta now is just super tanky while doing berserker like damage. And only few classes can do this(nerco, ele, engi), by this, we can know the game is hella unbalance and nearly to the dead point if anet balance team not going to take some nerf actions.

necros are so tanky now it’s unreal.

eles only slightly less tanky than before but have hella high burn damage. if you cleanse their burns, they use burning speed which is hella high dps if timed with intelligence sigil and might. by then ring of fire cd is up and they’ll burn you again. if you dodge that, no worries they have drakes breath at your tail.

omg so many happiness smilings and joy exciting fun!

It’s not really a tank meta except for maybe necro. There’s just loads of weakness, protection, and passive invulns in the game, which results in rediculously high damage reduction. There’s also lots of AoE healing to deal with the damage that does get through.

I would put less weakness in the game personally, or add more condi removal to deal with it.

We really need effective boon hate not more condition removal there is a difference between effective and a lot and condition specs are already fading anyway. It would be nice to “filter” the game but I doubt that will ever happen.

Shockwave.1230:

It’s not really a tank meta except for maybe necro. There’s just loads of weakness, protection, and passive invulns in the game, which results in rediculously high damage reduction. There’s also lots of AoE healing to deal with the damage that does get through.

I would put less weakness in the game personally, or add more condi removal to deal with it.

I call it sustain meta.
Even the viable zerker needs sustain, so you get SA thief and PU mesmer as meta builds. Also vampirism rune is so widely utilized to negate coordinated burst.

And now, we reached a full circle. Its been a long time since I heard complaining about bunkers.

I don’t know, I don’t really mind seeing bunkers or dealing with them. You either bring a friend and coordinate a burst or ignore them because you have 2/3 points and they are contested. The dps tanks that I see are kind of a problem though, you should not be able to get such high defenses (not talking stats here) and maintain the dps of another profession’s glass spec.

Some defenses are over the line, others are in a sweet spot, and some are down right pathetic and force people into atleast 1 trait selection to stay alive. I don’t think this balance is doing so well but it really hasn’t been getting any better over the past 3 years.

MAYBE they should do balance changes more than semi-annually.

Mmo PvP will always be like this, builds with good sustain and damage wins. This is no different than trinity pvp mmos why not just bring the trinity system to gw2 at the end mmo pvp ends up being the same zhit.

tico.9814:

Mmo PvP will always be like this, builds with good sustain and damage wins. This is no different than trinity pvp mmos why not just bring the trinity system to gw2 at the end mmo pvp ends up being the same zhit.

*cough * gw1 pvp
tons of different group builds countering each other with constant skill balance from the devs keeping the game interesting and different all the time.
If there was a strong meta everyone played – nerf it.

I really can’t understand how they managed to almost always balance thousands of skills in the first game, yet fail to fix something like ele not even after months.
Oh I know… They don’t want a separate pvp balance -.-

when will people finally understand that conquest will always favour bunkers when the point of the game is to hold a node…?

Jekkt.6045:

when will people finally understand that conquest will always favour bunkers when the point of the game is to hold a node…?

Right! To quote another thread,

Give us real pvp!
JUST DO IT!!!

Krysard.1364:

A week ago these forums had plenty of QQs about damage being too high… Sometimes I wonder if people on the forums play the same game…

They are, this move to bunk is exactly a reaction to that damage being too high.

Prior to this patch you could get away with playing a Bruiser, you have even fights and brought diversity.

Damage went sky high and bruiser is no longer viable, you are left with bunker and zerker.

News flash, most people dont like going from 100 to 0 in 3 seconds.

lol guess why everybody is using sustained classes/builds.
Because ele counters everything 1v1 /2v2 and zerk warrs,guards etc. are tired to get outcomped by eles, so they run sustained kitten to stalemate those slowpokes

Exactly, if bruiser is not viable then its either bunker or zerker. Bunker counters zerker and people dont like being killed in 2 seconds flat.

End result zerker gets screwed because of high damage.

Ironically i stated this would hapen like 2 weeks into the new patch.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Krysard.1364:

A week ago these forums had plenty of QQs about damage being too high… Sometimes I wonder if people on the forums play the same game…

A big part of this was because a large part of the community may not have noticed that Berserker Ammy is now using proper Berserker stats. Now that the use of Marauder’s Ammy is more common people realized that the damage wasn’t changes that much.

the meta actually hardly changed, it’s just that Engi doesn’t work so well with Cele anymore and Mesmer is the new Thief.

Do the math. Dmg has changed alot.
Stop trusting so much in WoodenPotatoes, self admittedly he is not that clued uo about balance and pvp, he just plays.

Apolo.5942:

Exactly, if bruiser is not viable then its either bunker or zerker. Bunker counters zerker and people dont like being killed in 2 seconds flat.

End result zerker gets screwed because of high damage.

Ironically i stated this would hapen like 2 weeks into the new patch.

This has been what’s happening in GW2 since release. The burst damage at launch was insanely high so people bunkered to survive. As new gimmick/cheese builds were discovered/introduced things changed a bit, but here we are again. If the berserker TTK is 2-3s then of course everyone is going to run bunker. If people wanted to get insta-gibbed they would play an FPS, they want strategy, skill, and tactics which aren’t present in 2-3s fights.. Ironically though, there are FPS’s where the TTK is higher than GW2 berserker vs berserker.

There will always be a tanky meta when the game mode is trying to survive as long as possible on point! Been here since launch!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

abc.5790:

necros are so tanky now it’s unreal.

eles only slightly less tanky than before but have hella high burn damage. if you cleanse their burns, they use burning speed which is hella high dps if timed with intelligence sigil and might. by then ring of fire cd is up and they’ll burn you again. if you dodge that, no worries they have drakes breath at your tail.

omg so many happiness smilings and joy exciting fun!

nerco is tanky only if they spec full bunker build with close to 0 damage but no where as tanky as guard. Reason is simple any class can easily lock us down due to lack of CC break and stability.

assassin.7895:

D/D, + perhaps Bunker Guard / Cele Nec / Invuln Engi
outsustain everything = gg

what is zerk even good for? it’s only useful for thief and mesmer because they rely on stealth either way

hope they revert the fire/air sigil change and nerf D/D ele thoroughly SOON

opinions?

air/fire needs to be buffed to do slightly more damage, but still less than it’s former incarnation. imo it was a blanket nerf caused by mesmer being too efficient with the sigils on greatsword, unfairly nerfing all other power builds that didn’t warrant it.

mesmer needs a variety of nerfs, though all minor. PU needs to give less stealth uptime, mindwrack less damage, confounding suggestions needs more counterplay or opportunity-cost, and blinding dissipation more opportunity-cost/made appropriately effective for where it is now.

elementalist needs fire traitline to be nerfed from the amount of mightstacking it makes ele capable of, to the bugged permanent 150 power increase plus further bugged 300 power increase when attuned to fire, and blinding ashes needs a slight increase in ICD. additionally, a nerf to it’s sustain (either targeted at water or arcana traitlines) might be necessary but i feel if you address it’s unjustified damage output, there shouldn’t be an issue with how tanky it is. i might be wrong and cele ele sustain is just unavoidably in need of a nerf, but they should definitely address it’s grotesquely overpowered offense first to really see if it is so.

guardian is fine in all aspects. burn guardian is completely fine, power medi is fine, and bunker guardian is also fine. burn guardian is probably getting nerfed once burn damage gets reduced though, which is funny to me since power guard needs it more than burn guard does. bunker guardian is a simple matter of improving your teamplay game and rotating around it either through quick 2v1s or rotating entirely (essentially ignoring the point it’s bunking) around it.

engie is in no sense in need of a nerf at all. not even close. for the first time since i can remember, engie is finally balanced. hell, it’s somewhat underpowered if anything. if that burning nerf does ever happen, engie is gonna needlessly suffer even more by having it’s only moderately viable condition spec made worse.

lastly, necro really only needs a slight nerf to it’s weakness uptime and it’s anti-condition strength, alongside a fix to signet of vampirism so it no longer hits through evades/blocks/invulns similar to ranger’s taunt and mesmer’s blinding dissipation before it was fixed. the possibility of it’s anti-boon strength also needing to be nerfed may be necessary too, once celestial ele gets brought in line, or it’s hardcounter status will become unwarranted.

non-profession specific, i think cripple (and maybe chill as well) needs to go back to affecting movement skills. it makes all the sense in the world for these conditions to work like this as it’s the basis of their functionality, to afflict movement and make condition builds (which by and large lack mobility) able to handle professions that can normally out run them, e.g. necro vs. ele or ranger vs. warrior. simply put, cripple should go back to how it was and chill should affect movement skills but only slightly since it offers the additional functionality of slowing CDs that cripple lacks.

pls do these things

Knock down DD Cele a bit and the meta will shift. This class/build has been dictating everything for the last 2 years,

princode.2750:

nerco is tanky only if they spec full bunker build with close to 0 damage but no where as tanky as guard. Reason is simple any class can easily lock us down due to lack of CC break and stability.

Close to zero damage? A bunker well Necro can accidentally kill zerkers while he is fighting and focusing other bunkers. Meh, its damage enough.

sinject.4607:

elementalist needs fire traitline to be nerfed from the amount of mightstacking it makes ele capable of, to the bugged permanent 150 power increase plus further bugged 300 power increase when attuned to fire,

That is already fixed…

Dawdler.8521:

princode.2750:

nerco is tanky only if they spec full bunker build with close to 0 damage but no where as tanky as guard. Reason is simple any class can easily lock us down due to lack of CC break and stability.

Close to zero damage? A bunker well Necro can accidentally kill zerkers while he is fighting and focusing other bunkers. Meh, its damage enough.

you already say it yourself “ACCIDENTALLY”…compare to ele it can bunker, can damage, can heal. Compare to guard bunker which has high amount of stability. Nerco is only a walking meat shield which easily can be CC and render it useless when bunkering. I would say among all the bunker class nerco is not tht good

This is Conquest game mode. Tanks and sustain to hold points will be ALWAYS meta. In fact, this meta is better balanced because it allows condition builds at some extent using burning (or Cele Necro works good too).

It’s only because there is a broken ratio damage/sustain.

Guardian bunker is a supe rock but doesn’t bring damage to the fight

Ele d/d is totally another story.

Too much damage/too much sustain/too much mobility.

Starts to nerf ele d/d first of all.

Poliator.7021:

This is Conquest game mode. Tanks and sustain to hold points will be ALWAYS meta. In fact, this meta is better balanced because it allows condition builds at some extent using burning (or Cele Necro works good too).

There can be a balance – if you don’t make tanks too strong.
Everything but full bunker shouldn’t be able to fight a 2v1.

Just need more boon stripping access to all classes…

That way it could be a bit more balanced..

Ppl who want burst damage can pick up a trait / skill related to boonstripping in order to get rid of that OP protection/aegis/stab than start their burst

Entenkommando.5208:

Poliator.7021:

This is Conquest game mode. Tanks and sustain to hold points will be ALWAYS meta. In fact, this meta is better balanced because it allows condition builds at some extent using burning (or Cele Necro works good too).

There can be a balance – if you don’t make tanks too strong.
Everything but full bunker shouldn’t be able to fight a 2v1.

But if we add generally more damage via sigils or whatever, then not even full bunkers in this game will be able to sustain 2v1. In my opinion, these Conquest “metas” will always be “boring” to some because Conquest is that way: capture points that you need to hold efficiently, while killing other holders.

Poliator.7021:

Entenkommando.5208:

Poliator.7021:

This is Conquest game mode. Tanks and sustain to hold points will be ALWAYS meta. In fact, this meta is better balanced because it allows condition builds at some extent using burning (or Cele Necro works good too).

There can be a balance – if you don’t make tanks too strong.
Everything but full bunker shouldn’t be able to fight a 2v1.

But if we add generally more damage via sigils or whatever, then not even full bunkers in this game will be able to sustain 2v1. In my opinion, these Conquest “metas” will always be “boring” to some because Conquest is that way: capture points that you need to hold efficiently, while killing other holders.

Yes conquest is a horrible mode imo.
We definitely don’t need more damage, because that would always hurt zerkers. Instead reduce tanks specs a little.
If you ask me – a true bunker should not drop at all in a 1v1, survive a little bit to stop a 2vs1 until help arrives (but HAS to go down after some time) and should have absolutely 0 chance to survive in a 3v1 as soon as he runs out of supportive skills.

Or what I’d like to see: make it like gw1. (yes, again)
The point capture is dependent on the amount of people standing inside of it. (so 2 guys can cap against 1). This would force you to help bunkers asap and you could balance it so that an uncontested point gets captured faster than a contested point.
This imo would keep bunkers viable but would not make it possible to entirely rely on them.

Anet wanted to abandon the Holy trinity, yet in a bit different way this is exactly how pvp works. And it should not be like that.

There is no tank/sustain meta. There is only DD Cele meta. Everything revolves around having 1-2 on every team having builds that can sustain against them while not losing a point.

If you knock out DD Cele, the meta will shift considerably. We might see even specialized roles within a team instead of get 2 DD Cele and spam skills.