Guild Wars 2

Structured Player versus Player (sPvP)
should be more rewarding than
Player versus Environment (PvE)

i agree with this statement, well, at least it should be this way for ranked sPvP arena games.

it would be very nice if the sPvP rewards for ranked arena games are greatly increased after the December PvP patch.

at the moment, the amount of gold earned via the current team arena is very low, being losing earning 15 silvers and winning earning 30 silvers. and having a daily maximum of 15 gold.

dedicated PvE dungeon runners can earn much more gold, much faster than a party of 5 who participate in team arena, due to the amount of time spent waiting for a match to happen.

PvE dungeon runners can start their dungeon run anytime (almost, save for CoF) once they have all 5 of their team members ready.

what about you?
what do you think?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

some minor update after receiving some feedback:
if sPvP should not be more rewarding than PvE,
then at least, sPvP and PvE should be equally rewarding.

because, at the moment, sPvP is much less rewarding than PvE.

i noticed a few people have commented that both sPvP and PvE should be equally rewarding.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

another update:
to clarify, casual hotjoin sPvP should NOT get any more rewarding than it currently it is now, the current rewards for casual hotjoin sPvP is fine as it is.

the rewards for the new ranked arena sPvP which is a combination of both the current solo arena as well as team arena better be much more that the current team arena rewards which is quite low and unappealing, plus the current waiting time for a solo arena as well as team arena match can be quite long.

I think it should be equally rewarding.

If you’re good enough it is. You can’t earn rl cash in PvE.

Essence Snow.3194:

If you’re good enough it is. You can’t earn rl cash in PvE.

LoL .. I’m pretty sure this is meant for the average player, and not the 0,0000000000000000000001% who will ever get a real money reward in GW2

jokke.6239:

I think it should be equally rewarding.

that seems fair, however, at the moment, PvE is more rewarding, in terms of “in game gold” and “in game cosmetics” etc though.

Essence Snow.3194:

If you’re good enough it is. You can’t earn rl cash in PvE.

well it is true that we can’t earn real life cash in PvE, only a small handful get to earn real life cash in sPvP.

many of the remaining gw2 players are simply not bothered to play sPvP for long due to the fact that PvE is more “rewarding” and easier than sPvP.

jokke.6239:

Essence Snow.3194:

If you’re good enough it is. You can’t earn rl cash in PvE.

LoL .. I’m pretty sure this is meant for the average player, and not the 0,0000000000000000000001% who will ever get a real money reward in GW2

ya ya. i meant the normal average players.

furthermore, PvP oriented players tend to play their games “longer” than PvE players.

with PvE players, we often hear complaints such as:
- what to do after level 80?
- increase the level 80 cap!
- no new dungeons?
- no new maps?
- cantha!
- elona!
- new weapons!
- etc

well PvP players do have similar complaints like:
- new game modes! (there is only conquest mode. the death match is a lie)
- new maps! (PvP maps are much smaller than PvE maps though)
- balance!
- nerf!
- buff!
- etc

what i am trying to imply is that, perhaps PvP players could be easier to satisfy than PvE players (who kept on demanding for new content, non stop) but in guild wars 2, they choose to spend more resources in trying to satisfy the PvE crowd, because it would seems like the PvE crowd spends more often in the gem store.

I agree. Would be a good way of getting pve’ers into PvP as well.

I can see making the argument that “PVP needs to be more monotarily rewarding” sure, but trying to say it should be more? Why? you haven’t made any arguments for that.

As far as I’m concerned there is a fun factor involved too. I could make more gold than I do if I did boring farms and grinded the crap out of them, but I don’t. I much prefer doing things I simply find FUN, I mean it is a game. I still make probably 10g a day simply screwing around doing whatever I feel like at the time.

Remember though, much like the dungeon crowd, or the WvW crowd, PVP is in the minority. It seems that all ANet cares about is the open world PVE’ers, which I would assume is the largest group. It’d be nice if we got a little something for the other groups but … yeah…

I agree on equally rewarding, but what do you take as the PvE average reward per hour? Because if we use the pugs in arah standard, pvp is already just as rewarding (if not more)…

Sube Dai.8496:

I agree. Would be a good way of getting pve’ers into PvP as well.

aye, earlier this year’s april patch certainly brought in some PvE folks into sPvP, but we could still use more.

Jerus.4350:

I can see making the argument that “PVP needs to be more monotarily rewarding” sure, but trying to say it should be more? Why? you haven’t made any arguments for that.

why? simply to encourage more players to play more PvP and less PvE.

Remember though, much like the dungeon crowd, or the WvW crowd, PVP is in the minority.

unfortunately, yes, this is true, gw2’s sPvP is still a minority.

It seems that all ANet cares about is the open world PVE’ers, which I would assume is the largest group. It’d be nice if we got a little something for the other groups but … yeah…

unfortunately, this is true as well.

in my opinion, they (ANet) are doing it wrong, as open world PvEers get bored with the same old PvE content eventually, and demand for new content, then the poor ANet employees burn themselves out trying to cook up new content for the unappreciative PvE mob which devours up new content very quickly and asks for more. a vicious never ending cycle.

sPvP players on the other hand, can keep on PvP-ing everyday, as long as the sPvP foundation itself is solid.

just look at other PvP based games such as: Team Fortress 2, Counter Strike Global Offensive, Dota 2, etc.

ANet is making a huge mistake by simply continuing to neglect the gw2 PvP community while trying in vain to satisfy the PvE mob that can be never truly satisfied at all.

cranos.5913:

I agree on equally rewarding, but what do you take as the PvE average reward per hour? Because if we use the pugs in arah standard, pvp is already just as rewarding (if not more)…

hmmm regarding “PvE average reward per hour” i am not sure, since not every PvE player “plays effectively” in order to maximize their gold per hour ratio.

well, let’s just say a very casual PvE player decides to run
CoF path 1
CoF path 2
SF path 1
SF path 3

per day, all 4 of the above explorable path can be completed in one hour yes? if not all 4, then perhaps just these 2.

CoF path 1
SF path 1

what would the average gains for these 2 sets of dungeon paths be?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

cranos.5913:

I agree on equally rewarding, but what do you take as the PvE average reward per hour? Because if we use the pugs in arah standard, pvp is already just as rewarding (if not more)…

hmmm regarding “PvE average reward per hour” i am not sure, since not every PvE player “plays effectively” in order to maximize their gold per hour ratio.

well, let’s just say a very casual PvE player decides to run
CoF path 1
CoF path 2
SF path 1
SF path 3

per day, all 4 of the above explorable path can be completed in one hour yes? if not all 4, then perhaps just these 2.

CoF path 1
SF path 1

what would the average gains for these 2 sets of dungeon paths be?

Honestly it’s been years since I did normal COF and SE runs but I would hope they could complete all 4 in about an hour. That would be about 5g pure gold reward + tokens, champion bags, random loot.

i can agree that it should be more rewarding than it currently is, but only if they make match making better and more accurate. The amount of times i get new players, or players new to spvp in a ranked solo Q match is just unacceptable, its basically a 4v5. and dont get me started on actual 4v5’s

And with this type of change it would pull a lot more new players in, which is good but not good when they get in a higher rating match.

Do sPvPers even have a use for their gold? Are any of them even content with just competing for the same rewards as everyone who plays PvE and always being inferior to the wealth gain of PvEers? Is there any reward that sPvPers can even play for that is even slightly prestigious and sets them apart from others by showing that they’ve accomplished something that others haven’t?

The only kinds of rewards worth playing for, IMO, are exclusive ones, especially when it comes to doing competitive stuff like (high-end) sPvP. The reason these rewards don’t exist is because that by their very nature of being exclusive, ANet has to say “no” to people who want them and choose to whine rather than do what is necessary to compete, and ANet is not in the business of saying “no” to people when it discourages them from wasting time in the game or spending money in the store. ANet is far more interested in making content that rewards their pocket books over content that rewards player skill and study.

It’s the same reason there won’t be any kind of competitive PvE added to the game, which could also offer prestigious and exclusive rewards for outstanding accomplishment, because that means saying “no” to everyone else that doesn’t want to gear up or learn the encounter or whatever.

It’s like how they recently announced the next test ladder season having a prize of two pieces of Glorious armor instead of anything exclusive. Glorious armor can be obtained through a PvP track anyways, which requires only an investment of time and minimal actual effort and is hardly “skill-based” or whatever buzzword is being used to describe it these days. The fact that ANet believes that this is an appropriate award for people who climb to the top of a competitive ladder, to be given a prize which they have likely already earned through the time they have invested to become good enough to climb that ladder, says enough about whether sPvP is going to become a rewarding experience for anyone any time soon.

Why encourage PVP over PVE?

To what end?

Personally I hate the GW2 PVP style, I’ve tried it, don’t like it. I’m no expert but I don’t do that poorly in the matches I play. Maybe some new game modes would make it more enjoyable but this bunker on a node thing is simply not fun to me.

And this is coming from a guy who has spent much of the last 15 years playing MMO PVP.

cranos.5913:

Honestly it’s been years since I did normal COF and SE runs but I would hope they could complete all 4 in about an hour. That would be about 5g pure gold reward + tokens, champion bags, random loot.

aye, 5 pure gold + tokens + champ bags + loot seems fair

the sPvP reward tracks covered the tokens + champ bags + loot, the problem is the pure gold reward though.

Sebastian.4610:

i can agree that it should be more rewarding than it currently is, but only if they make match making better and more accurate. The amount of times i get new players, or players new to spvp in a ranked solo Q match is just unacceptable, its basically a 4v5. and dont get me started on actual 4v5’s

And with this type of change it would pull a lot more new players in, which is good but not good when they get in a higher rating match.

indeed. hopefully the new dec 2014 patch will fix the 4v5 issues, bring in more players, so that the queue time for the new ranked arena would not much faster.

Shayne Hawke.9160:

Do sPvPers even have a use for their gold?

thanks for the massive feedback, i read them all, but i will reply in regard to the first line.

one use that i can think up is, that the sPvPers can use their gold to buy gems, which will cause gem prices to steadily climb up, provided that, sPvP is more rewarding than PvE. and this might cause PvE only players who do not wish to grind for gold to buy gems, buy gems with real cash, thus, more profit for ANet.

am i wrong?

Jerus.4350:

Personally speaking though, I’ve tried PVP, i simply hate it in GW2, this is coming from a guy who has spent the last 15 years playing a heck of a lot of MMO PVP. Some new game modes might spice it up and make it more interesting though.

Point being, I don’t need incentive to try it, I already have and know I don’t like it, and that’s not I suck at it (well I kinda do compared to those really good but I mean I don’t do poorly in the matches I play), I simply don’t enjoy the style.

thanks for the feedback!

if you don’t mind, could you elaborate more in detail about the gw2 sPvP “style” that you do not like? is it due to having one conquest mode only? “some new game modes might spice it up”

or because you are too used to the “pvp style” of other games? “15 years playing a lot of mmo pvp”

cheers and thanks!

I edited because I realized it didn’t come across correctly, sorry

In the end I think PVP could be much better served by adding some more game modes than simply adding rewards.

Jerus.4350:

I edited because I realized it didn’t come across correctly, sorry

In the end I think PVP could be much better served by adding some more game modes than simply adding rewards.

aye, thanks for the update. i will comment accordingly.

well, yes, more game mode would certainly help. however, i think new game modes takes a very long time to develop.

i suppose revising the rewards would not take too much of their time, they just need to tweak the numbers a bit. that’s all.

Jerus.4350:

Why encourage PVP over PVE?

To what end?

well, why i want to encourage PvP over PvE is that, so that, PvP may one day, have the same amount of players than PvE, if not more.
and so that PvP may be better monetized, causing them to spend more sources in developing PvP, instead of trying to patch up the many holes opening up all over the place in the PvE bucket.

Personally I hate the GW2 PVP style, I’ve tried it, don’t like it. I’m no expert but I don’t do that poorly in the matches I play. Maybe some new game modes would make it more enjoyable but this bunker on a node thing is simply not fun to me.

And this is coming from a guy who has spent much of the last 15 years playing MMO PVP.

i see. so “bunker on node” is not appealing for you, but still, you had your fair share of sPvP experience and decided that sPvP is not your cup of tea for the time being.

well, they did say their PvP team is working on new game modes, hopefully they will come out with new game modes soon.

jokke.6239:

I think it should be equally rewarding.

Agreed.

jokke.6239:

I think it should be equally rewarding.

This. There’s no reason why any game mode should be considered “better” than others.

Structured Player versus Player (sPvP)
should be more rewarding than
Player versus Environment (PvE)

No.

jokke.6239:

I think it should be equally rewarding.

This.

AlexVv.3965 , Astralporing.1957 , Ameepa.6793
thanks for the feedback!

Ohoni.6057:

Structured Player versus Player (sPvP)
should be more rewarding than
Player versus Environment (PvE)

No.

aye, thanks for the “no” feedback but could you elaborate more in detail about why no?

are you implying that sPvP should be less rewarding than PvE?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

well, let’s just say a very casual PvE player decides to run
CoF path 1
CoF path 2
SF path 1
SF path 3

Casual player. 4 dungeon paths, back to back. In one hour.
…sorry, you have just lost me. A player that consistently runs even 2 dungeon paths back to back is hardly a casual.

jokke.6239:

I think it should be equally rewarding.

There. Enough said.

I’ve played GW1 for 7 years, 5 years PVE and last 2 years PvP/ GvG…
I can’t tell you, how much i miss GW1, in GW1 i felt rewarded playing what ever i was playing in PvP, and was happy to earn my rewards…

Gw2 PvP?
- we deserve more than just one Balthazar achievement… is that really all that we deserve?
- no income
- barely any PvP skins
- if you want to do pvp servers, 200g… you have to play sick load of pve, so you can pvp
- PVP PLAYERS ARE NOT RESPECTED…

I just hope Arena net will soon realise, that they are losing a big number of GW1 players that were keep going the entire game, we are the one, who constantly played and keept running the population so that GW2 had any chance to be, what it is now..

We deserve some pvp content, rewards, own pvp income, so that IF WE DONT WANT TO GO PVE, WE DONT HAVE TO… I have no lust for PvE, there for i think this game leaks all the good things that GW1 offered..

Arena net, it’s time to wake up, and take care of us PvP players too…

IF they increase the rewards in sPvP they also need to add more gold-sinks. Do people really want that? Have you already forgotten the rage about some amulets being put being a gold-cost when they added the ability to get gold from PvP?

Define what you think is reward. An item you only get in one area? Tons of gold? Title of best in universe?

first of all, I think people who enjoy the “sports style” pvp of GW (no lasting consequences on the game world, seperated game mode) play it for the fun of it.

That being said, yes, a game mode that requires way more skill than pve should reward successful players a lot better – in an environment of absolute justice. Sadly, GW2 is not such an environment. Its business model is one of inclusion – noone is meant to excel to keep the people who cannot do well – let´s call them “casuals” as an oversimplification – happy and paying customers. You are not even getting significantly better rewards for harder pve content, no way you will ever see great rewards for game modes that really sort the wheat from the chaff. Which, sadly, is probably a good design decision, as those days in the gaming industry are over – to the detriment of game quality itself.

Astralporing.1957:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

well, let’s just say a very casual PvE player decides to run
CoF path 1
CoF path 2
SF path 1
SF path 3

Casual player. 4 dungeon paths, back to back. In one hour.
…sorry, you have just lost me. A player that consistently runs even 2 dungeon paths back to back is hardly a casual.

why not?

CoF path 1 and SF path 1 are two of the easier dungeon explorable paths.
either one can be completely around 10 minutes casually, around 20 minutes for both.

i do agree that CoF path 2 and SF path 3 takes more than 10 minutes each though.

so, to be fair, a casual player’s dungeon run might probably be only:
CoF path 1
SF path 1

i.e. the first paths of CoF and SF

Dondarrion.2748:

jokke.6239:

I think it should be equally rewarding.

There. Enough said.

aye thanks for the feedback!

Firelysm.4967:

I’ve played GW1 for 7 years, 5 years PVE and last 2 years PvP/ GvG…
I can’t tell you, how much i miss GW1, in GW1 i felt rewarded playing what ever i was playing in PvP, and was happy to earn my rewards…

Gw2 PvP?
- we deserve more than just one Balthazar achievement… is that really all that we deserve?
- no income
- barely any PvP skins
- if you want to do pvp servers, 200g… you have to play sick load of pve, so you can pvp
- PVP PLAYERS ARE NOT RESPECTED…

I just hope Arena net will soon realise, that they are losing a big number of GW1 players that were keep going the entire game, we are the one, who constantly played and keept running the population so that GW2 had any chance to be, what it is now..

We deserve some pvp content, rewards, own pvp income, so that IF WE DONT WANT TO GO PVE, WE DONT HAVE TO… I have no lust for PvE, there for i think this game leaks all the good things that GW1 offered..

Arena net, it’s time to wake up, and take care of us PvP players too…

aye, thanks for the detailed and comprehensive feedback!

lordkrall.7241:

IF they increase the rewards in sPvP they also need to add more gold-sinks. Do people really want that? Have you already forgotten the rage about some amulets being put being a gold-cost when they added the ability to get gold from PvP?

there are already more than enough gold sinks in the game.
the gem store itself is a massive gold sink.

if sPvP players can earn gold much faster than PvE players, they can easily buy gems with gold, allowing them to buy more items in the gem store.

besides, the gem store has lots of finishers for sale.

Yargesh.4965:

Define what you think is reward. An item you only get in one area? Tons of gold? Title of best in universe?

for a start, in game gold is a very basic reward. gold can buy lots of things. gold can be used to buy gems.

Algreg.3629:

first of all, I think people who enjoy the “sports style” pvp of GW (no lasting consequences on the game world, seperated game mode) play it for the fun of it.

That being said, yes, a game mode that requires way more skill than pve should reward successful players a lot better – in an environment of absolute justice. Sadly, GW2 is not such an environment. Its business model is one of inclusion – noone is meant to excel to keep the people who cannot do well – let´s call them “casuals” as an oversimplification – happy and paying customers. You are not even getting significantly better rewards for harder pve content, no way you will ever see great rewards for game modes that really sort the wheat from the chaff. Which, sadly, is probably a good design decision, as those days in the gaming industry are over – to the detriment of game quality itself.

yes, i realize that everything they do, is for the glory of the gem store.

however, by focusing on the PvE mob, they are doing it wrong!
because the PvE mob can never be satisfied!

While your intentions may be innocent the reality is Anet care WAY more about PvE than PvP. GW1 players learnt that a few years ago.

PvE is the majority .PvP is a niche and minority market so no…you won’t get equal rewards because it’s minority complaint and keeping the majority happy and empowered just makes more sense.

It’s Guild Wars…without any actual Guild Wars. Do the math.

fireflyry.7023:

While your intentions may be innocent the reality is Anet care WAY more about PvE than PvP. GW1 players learnt that a few years ago.

PvE is the majority .PvP is a niche and minority market so no…you won’t get equal rewards because it’s minority complaint and keeping the majority happy and empowered just makes more sense.

It’s Guild Wars…without any actual Guild Wars. Do the math.

they are stupid, really.

gw2 sPvP became niche and minority because they abandon development on it right off the launch.

if they polished the sPvP better, PvE would be the minority, not sPvP.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

there are already more than enough gold sinks in the game.
the gem store itself is a massive gold sink.

if sPvP players can earn gold much faster than PvE players, they can easily buy gems with gold, allowing them to buy more items in the gem store.

besides, the gem store has lots of finishers for sale.

Yes, there are many gold sinks in the game, but very few of them are required by the sPvP side of the game, and as such adding a huge amount of gold from sPvP would kitten up the economy quite a bit unless they added more gold sinks there.

While the gemstore might be a bit of a gold sink it is also fully possible to completely bypass that goldsink by simply buying gems directly with money.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

they are stupid, really.

gw2 sPvP became niche and minority because they abandon development on it right off the launch.

if they polished the sPvP better, PvE would be the minority, not sPvP.

Agreed kind of..

PvP would only become the majority if it was a purely PvP game aka “moba”. Most GW1 vets observed this progression from Anet so it’s no surprise.EotN was a statement from Anet. PvE is now our central focus.

What people and players like yourself have to come to terms with is that PvE equates to player longevity and in business terms more money for Anet, especially in non-subscription. You HAVE to create PvE grind. sPvP is, for most, a pop-in every-now-and-then-when-I’m-bored kind of gig.

I know some peeps still take it seriously but I personally got bored a few months after release yet GW1 for me will always be remembered as one of the best PvP games I have ever played.

The fact sPvP is based on Alliance Battles, one of the least popular forms of PvP in GW1, amazes and baffles me to this day. In saying GW2 releasing without GvG, Guild Halls, RA, etc, etc kind of set the bar.

Differing expectations at fault more than anything.

aye, thanks for the “no” feedback but could you elaborate more in detail about why no?

are you implying that sPvP should be less rewarding than PvE?

I don’t care if it’s less rewarding, but it definitely shouldn’t be more rewarding. Ideally they’d go back to the original model, in which sPvP rewards could not be used outside of sPvP.

lordkrall.7241:

IF they increase the rewards in sPvP they also need to add more gold-sinks. Do people really want that? Have you already forgotten the rage about some amulets being put being a gold-cost when they added the ability to get gold from PvP?

The only gold sink that exists only in PVE is waypoints… There is no other goldsink that affects PVE players only anymore. (Repairs / Trait change were removed)

Also, PVP players have to BUY their new traits / skills, while PVE players have the option to unlock them with various activities, so PVP players have more goldsinks than PVE players yet PVP players are less rewarded for their time.

@OP
While I agree that PVP rewards should be increased considerably (they are way too low atm) however you say PVP should be more rewarding than PVE yet you don’t explain what you mean by PVE.

Running dungeons with a highly optimized speedclear party would result in a lot higher rewards than running dungeons with a more casual and relaxed party.

Grinding at the “good” farming places, like Champ trains, EotM farms, event trains in Orr, SWs, Dry Top etc is way more profitable than just moving around the world exploring and doing events as they appear.

So, which part of PVE do you want to compare PVP with?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

fireflyry.7023:

While your intentions may be innocent the reality is Anet care WAY more about PvE than PvP. GW1 players learnt that a few years ago.

PvE is the majority .PvP is a niche and minority market so no…you won’t get equal rewards because it’s minority complaint and keeping the majority happy and empowered just makes more sense.

It’s Guild Wars…without any actual Guild Wars. Do the math.

they are stupid, really.

gw2 sPvP became niche and minority because they abandon development on it right off the launch.

if they polished the sPvP better, PvE would be the minority, not sPvP.

no, they act smart. Gaming culture has changed so much since it became mainstream. The majority of consumers don´t want to compete. They don´t want to be excited or thrilled. They want to be “entertained” and gratified.

In a pvp scenario, you will allways have a loser. People don´t like that. Just look at all the complaints around here. GW2 is mindnumbingly easy compared to last generations online games. Still people consider things too hard. The new type of gamer does not enjoy gnashing his teeth on a problem, improving himself, feeling the rush of adrenaline in a situation that could actually end in a real loss of something. He wants to succeed all the time, he wants to invest as little thought and effort as possible, he does not want the “high” of overcoming a frustrating challenge, he wants the continous gratification of auto-success.

We can lament this change in gaming culture, but a business cannot – nor ignore it. Anet wants to earn money and they don´t have to be the dragon slayer fighting against the glorified mediocrity of our age. They ARE that smart.

Sorry but I don’t actually believe that PvP should be more rewarding than PvE.

PvP is about skill and nothing more.
PvE is about …. well… “Keeping up with the Joneses.”

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

fireflyry.7023:

While your intentions may be innocent the reality is Anet care WAY more about PvE than PvP. GW1 players learnt that a few years ago.

PvE is the majority .PvP is a niche and minority market so no…you won’t get equal rewards because it’s minority complaint and keeping the majority happy and empowered just makes more sense.

It’s Guild Wars…without any actual Guild Wars. Do the math.

they are stupid, really.

gw2 sPvP became niche and minority because they abandon development on it right off the launch.

if they polished the sPvP better, PvE would be the minority, not sPvP.

Unfortunately this is simply not true. Time and time again all genres of games have shown that the vast majority prefer co-op vs counter-op when given a choice. The reason people don’t realize this is because that vast majority is silent, as 99% of the guild wars playerbase is. If we look at the raw numbers, I think you’d find between 5-15% play any kind of PvP at all, including WvW. When considering these numbers, you have to take into account the thousands of people that take weeks/months just to get their first 80, yes, the casuals.

A-net is far from stupid, they’re simply forced to respond to the far superior number. The big mistake, however, is indeed that A-net seems to be strangled into minuscule patches focused on one area at a time. A healthy game would be receiving updates to all areas, even if they’re tiny updates, on an ongoing basis addressing potent issues. sPvP goes months without even being breathed at sometimes.

@OP:

I believe a more healthy solution would be to provide incentive for sPvP players to migrate into other areas for short periods without making it painful.

Example: sPvP rewards = Plague Signet, the ascended item rewarded for all the achievements being completed in the current LS episode. It is required for the Luminescent Gloves, a living story only item. Now that the PvPer has potentially the most difficult item, he can go participate in the less committing activities to obtain the end result. The idea being this player has participated in more areas of the game, but in the end he still received something worth wile even if he didn’t want the skin.

Frankly, the second they begin to treat PvP as if it were on a higher tier than PvE is the second I drop the game entirely. I, personally, hate PvP. I know way more people that ignore and stay away from PvP than those who play it. Every piece of PvP-only gear/boosts I have ever got I either sold (if I could, I don’t remember) or trashed.

I think you might have an inflated sense of the numbers who actually PvP, rewards or not, vs those that don’t.

It’s fair to assume this has led, in large part, to the success of mobas.

MMORPG’s are really mutating into work simulators with a side of social networking.

If you want challenging game play as opposed to repeating the same thing 50 thousand time for a “epic sword of epicness that shines heaps” well yeah…

fireflyry.7023:

While your intentions may be innocent the reality is Anet care WAY more about PvE than PvP. GW1 players learnt that a few years ago.

PvE is the majority .PvP is a niche and minority market so no…you won’t get equal rewards because it’s minority complaint and keeping the majority happy and empowered just makes more sense.

It’s Guild Wars…without any actual Guild Wars. Do the math.

I disagree with that statement, how PvP is most of their focus, just because they can’t just throw together a new mode/map as quickly as the releases for PvE doesn’t detrack from the clearly PvP focus of the game. The engine and skills are clearly designed and balanced around sPvP 5 v 5 and any other form of play is squeezed in to have to work around said systems. PvE content is not as resource intensive as the desired content/changes wanted by the pvp community. The current addition to the POI program shows that PvP is something they are continually pushing at the GW2 player base.

On to the topic at hand the general fear of bots/cheating they have will ultimately hinder any attempt at placing better rewards into the PvP environment. Secondly I doubt they would make the PvP rewards ‘better’ than the PvE rewards as they would rather (in some fantasy world) have people enter PvP and play it because they enjoy it not just for the shinnies are better, fast (not harder though). At best you could hope for is some type of equal reward basis, but that is difficult to gauge as PvE rewards vary quite a lot depending on activity/time spent. (Slightly offtopic would PvP be subject to diminished returns as farming an area is in the open world?)

I respect the fact you disagree but I place my rebuttal in the hands of the content Anet has provided to GW players in the last 10 years.

That really says it all.

Sure they care about PvP but comparatively it’s pales in comparison to PvE. It’s a no-brainer to connect the dots.

I disagree. In PvE you have to buy/craft/earn your rewards.

In PvP you earn skins through playing PvP, you do not need any monetary rewards. What you seem to be actually be asking for is a way for PvP players to earn PvE rewards.

I have nothing inherently against this, but if you can earn PvE rewards through PvP, then you should also be able to earn PvP rewards through PvE.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I disagree. In PvE you have to buy/craft/earn your rewards.

In PvP you earn skins through playing PvP, you do not need any monetary rewards. What you seem to be actually be asking for is a way for PvP players to earn PvE rewards.

I have nothing inherently against this, but if you can earn PvE rewards through PvP, then you should also be able to earn PvP rewards through PvE.

What kind of rewards do you have to buy/craft in PVE, that you don’t have to in PVP?

Edit:
You are probably thinking of the old PVP reward system, now with the PVP tracks you don’t get simple skins anymore, you get complete items

thanks everyone for the comprehensive feedback, much appreciated!
please keep them coming, and keep them civil aye.

@ Bran.7425
“(Slightly offtopic would PvP be subject to diminished returns as farming an area is in the open world?)”

i think that, there should not be any diminished returns if players participate in sPvP ranked arena games.

@ misterman.1530
and how would you feel if sPvP is equally rewarding as PvE ?

@ Bluefox.9580
how would explain the success of games such as team fortress 2, counter strike global operation and dota 2?

plague signet is a PvE living story reward, how is it sPvP?

@ Azhure.1857
why not?

if sPvP is about skill, then sPvP players should be richer than PvE players.

@ Algreg.3629
look at games such dota 2, team fortress 2, counter strike global operation.
all those are PvP games and yet the developer / publisher makes lots of monies off them.

people want good PvP content, not PvE.

@ maddoctor.2738
all part of PvE i guess.

open world, living story, dungeons, etc.
everything.

right now, every part of PvE is more rewarding in terms of in game gold than sPvP.

@ Ohoni.6057
they will not return to the original format where sPvP and PvE is divided.
it was a mistake that they split up PvE and sPvP at the start, but they rectified it.

how would you feel if both sPvP and PvE are rewarded equally?

@ fireflyry.7023
well, true, although 2+ years have passed since gw2’s release, and sPvP is still extremely disappointing, but i’m still hoping it will shine better later on.

but before that, we need more players playing sPvP, increasing rewards is often one of the fastest methods to achieve that.

@ lordkrall.7241
actually, sPvP has more gold sinks than PvE, as mentioned by maddoctor.2738

thanks again everyone.
lots of replies.

if i failed to address anyone’s question, errrr please again me again, i will attempt my best to answer.

Why should spvp be more rewarding than pve?

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I disagree. In PvE you have to buy/craft/earn your rewards.

In PvP you earn skins through playing PvP, you do not need any monetary rewards. What you seem to be actually be asking for is a way for PvP players to earn PvE rewards.

I have nothing inherently against this, but if you can earn PvE rewards through PvP, then you should also be able to earn PvP rewards through PvE.

new PvP amulets, sigils, runes etc needs to be unlocked with gold, lots of gold.
new traits, needs to be unlocked with gold as well.

new characters created after the NPE has lots and lots of traits that needs to be unlocked with gold.

unfortunately, absurdly, ridiculously, traits unlocks are character bound and not account bound.

only the balthazar’s reward track and glorious armor reward track is limited to sPvP, PvE players can easily abuse spectator mode and auto balance to unlock those reward tracks.

by the way, sPvP has no real means at all to acquire PvE rewards such as fractal weapon skins, and legendary precursor weapons.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Why should spvp be more rewarding than pve?

and why should it not?

some reasons being:
because there are too many players playing PvE, not enough playing sPvP.
because fighting humans takes more skill than PvE content.
because we want to promote sPvP
because current rewards of sPvP is pathetically low

gem store related reasons being:
because if sPvP is more rewarding, sPvP players may be more able to buy gems using gold, helping with the gem inflation, causing more PvE players to buy gems using real cash, thus more profit for ANet.

all for the glory of the gem store!

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

@ fireflyry.7023
well, true, although 2+ years have passed since gw2’s release, and sPvP is still extremely disappointing, but i’m still hoping it will shine better later on.

but before that, we need more players playing sPvP, increasing rewards is often one of the fastest methods to achieve that.

This is the major problem atm. The perception is wrong.

Serious or focussed PvP players at large couldn’t care less about shinies. The reward is beating another player(s) in an enjoyable and competitive format. Pure and simple.

I don’t hear anyone of merit in the PvP community wanting better shinies or minis or any of that kitten. They want more formats, GvG, Guild Halls for their team and a better PvP experience totally outside any impact changing the reward structure will bring.

That mentality is predominantly in PvE where the legendary weapons wearers hang out high-fiving each other.

Often increasing and easing rewards does little more than temporarily drag PvE players over that would rather be pwning trash mobs or Teq in PvE, till they get their shiny and go back to PvE. It results in a temporary population spike with a side-effect of an influx of bad players but in the long run completely ignores more significant factors that actually have merit and import in the overall longevity, health and relevance of the PvP format.