Guild Wars 2

I wont say how broken stuff is and how some1 obviously didnt do any testing,
but i will play the card:

“oh, this sheet is confusing for new players, who might shoot themselves in the foot by using a sigil that is identical but weaker.”

HELP THE NEW PLAYERS FAST!!! …and maybe cuz balance

Read the descriptions more carefully.

Purity’s effect can proc on any hit, crit or non-crit.

Generosity is crit exclusive.

They are both very similar but:

1 requires a crit (not everyone runs crit builds) and transfers the condition

1 can be procced on any hit, but only removes it instead.

The difference it causes is minimal/neglectable

Flumek.9043:

The difference it causes is minimal/neglectable

no since the crit one can only be used on build with precision.

Any power build has some crit. Any condi build has “enough” crit, just to get the cheezprocs.

Only bunkers (altough dont forget even cleric guard with scpeter#2 got the vigor prety often) are left out, but theyre not something that is meant to kill u.

Flumek.9043:

Any power build has some crit. Any condi build has “enough” crit, just to get the cheezprocs.

Only bunkers (altough dont forget even cleric guard with scpeter#2 got the vigor prety often) are left out, but theyre not something that is meant to kill u.

Conditional probability suggests that you need to have a crit chance of at least 60% (and not streak) for Generosity to have the same “raw” chance of kicking off as Purity. 60% is a fairly considerable chunk of the stat pool, hence the extra “kick”. Thats the major difference, one is a probability stacked on top of probability, but with an extra kick, the other is “playing it safe”. I don’t see the problem?

In addition, you probably are able to use both.

Even though, I’m using a crit build, I use Purity.

Maybe I suck at statistics, but regarding the probabilities to cleansen a condition with a hit are:
- for purity: 60%
- generosity: Critchance: let’s say 50% * Proc Chance: 60% = 30%

I actually like Purity and I think it will be good vs. Condis.
The chance of not triggering Purity within 3 hits are just 6,4%
The chance not to trigger Generosity within 3 hits are 34,3%

(100%) – (crit chance) = X%

Ask yourself, “Is transferring the condi worth it taking X% longer on average to proc?”

The answer is going to depend on your build. If you’re a condi build you’ll almost always want generosity. If you’re a bunker you probably want purity.

EverythingEnds.4261:

In addition, you probably are able to use both.

Even though, I’m using a crit build, I use Purity.

Maybe I suck at statistics, but regarding the probabilities to cleansen a condition with a hit are:
- for purity: 60%
- generosity: Critchance: let’s say 50% * Proc Chance: 60% = 30%

I actually like Purity and I think it will be good vs. Condis.
The chance of not triggering Purity within 3 hits are just 6,4%
The chance not to trigger Generosity within 3 hits are 34,3%

Your numbers are wrong. But so were mine. From the top.

For simple Purity, meaning a P of 0.6, using the binominal theorem your number is correct. The chance of having at least one success in 3 tests is indeed 0.936 or 93.6%

For Generosity however, you are using a wrong formula. Multiplication of probabilities implies a joint probability – this means that you would test Generosity even if you did not crit. This is not the case. You need to use Conditional Probability. – you are only testing Generosity if you land a critical hit, otherwise no test is made. This actually changes the numbers, since probability is weird that way.

For clarity, we use A = Generosity triggering, B = Critical hit. A is dependent on B, so

P ( A if B ) = P ( A and B ) divided by P ( B ).

Using your assumption = B = 0.5, A = 0.6, so P ( A if B ) = (0.5 * 0.6) / 0.5 = 0.6

Meaning that your example (I divided by the wrong factor earlier) is actually exactly on par with a pure Purity roll, 0.6 single or 0.936 chance of 1 hit across 3 tests.

In other words, if your crit chance is above 50%, Generosity is a better idea. If it is bellow, you are better off with purity. This is of course assuming GW2 has an ideal probability calculator, which does not exist. Having the crit chance a bit higher to combat any calculation errors when it comes to random rolls isn’t a bad idea.

EDIT: And, of course, keep in mind that the cooldowns are different on them too, meaning that one gives more time for the condition to mess you up and your target to run away.

I knew the problem and I actually am not 100% sure, if my calculation is right, but yours is defenitily wrong.

The reason for this is, that the Proc chance of Generosity is already the Conditional Probability (P (A if B )) = 0.6 (or in words: 60% chance to trigger if a critical hit occurs)
What we are actually looking for, is P(A and B ) (in words: the probabilty that a crit occurs and Generosity triggers). Thus, we have to convert the formula from

_ P(A if B ) = P(A and B ) / P(B )_

into

P(A and B ) = P(A if B ) * P (B )

Given that P(A if B ) is the 60% chance of Generosity to Proc on crit and P(B) your Critchance, this results into my calculation of:
0.6 * 0.5 = 0.3

To proof that your calculation must be wrong, just think about what you actually were calculating. You calculated:
P(A if B ) = (P(A) * P(B ) / P(B ) this would always lead to the answer P(A if B ) = P(A), implying that P(A) would be independant from P(B ).

has anyone tested if Generosity still “procs” even when there’s no condition to transfer?

In that case Purity might be more desirable, though I’d probably run both at once.
(and I still think that Purity – and Speed – would be more useful as proc-on-swap)

purity probably works better on bunkers

EverythingEnds.4261:

I knew the problem and I actually am not 100% sure, if my calculation is right, but yours is defenitily wrong.

The reason for this is, that the Proc chance of Generosity is already the Conditional Probability (P (A if B )) = 0.6 (or in words: 60% chance to trigger if a critical hit occurs)
What we are actually looking for, is P(A and B ) (in words: the probabilty that a crit occurs and Generosity triggers). Thus, we have to convert the formula from

_ P(A if B ) = P(A and B ) / P(B )_

into

P(A and B ) = P(A if B ) * P (B )

Given that P(A if B ) is the 60% chance of Generosity to Proc on crit and P(B) your Critchance, this results into my calculation of:
0.6 * 0.5 = 0.3

To proof that your calculation must be wrong, just think about what you actually were calculating. You calculated:
P(A if B ) = (P(A) * P(B ) / P(B ) this would always lead to the answer P(A if B ) = P(A), implying that P(A) would be independant from P(B ).

We are both wrong actually. And both right, to an extent.

You are testing for the wrong thing, but since one of the factors (the 60% proc of Generosity) remains constant, testing for concurrence gives the same result as testing for conditional probability. You test for the wrong thing, but get the same result since one of the factors is constant. This would not provide the same results if both probabilities would be dynamic, ultimately yeah, my bad.

Anyway, in a direct comparison, you would need a crit rate of 100% or more to transfer the conditions at a same chance then with purging.

There are two other factors involved here that are significant, one of them is very hard to account for using math, they are:

9s vs 10s cooldown
Transferring condition vs Purging it.

The 9s vs 10s may seem not significant, but after 2/3 checks, we are moving into territory where the negative effects proc on you. In other words, lets say if your crit chance is 70%, then you have a 80.5% chance of 1 transfer in 27 secs vs the 93.6% over 30 seconds (assuming hits at cooldown)

I don’t remember that much from my stats classes to extrapolate probability adjusted for time for both, but Generosity is 10% faster in its checks. Thats significant enough to be fairly effective if your cirt rate is in the 70-80% range imo.

Either way, Generosity requires a significant contribution to Precision to be as effective in its basic function – getting rid of conditions – as Purging.

The second factor that is purely situational is what gets transfered and to whom. Obviously there are so many possibilities here that its hard to even really consider.

And that was my main point – 70-80% crit chance requires serious stat devotion. It is not as clear cut a choice as OP seemed to say IMO, even though I failed at math ;P

EDIT:

Alacrity

has anyone tested if Generosity still “procs” even when there’s no condition to transfer?
In that case Purity might be more desirable, though I’d probably run both at once.
(and I still think that Purity – and Speed – would be more useful as proc-on-swap)

As far as I remember, cool-downs for any sigil proc start after its effect is applied/triggered, by that logic, if there is no effect to apply, there is no effect to trigger.

Or at least that is what would make sense. Stranger things have happened ;P