Getting back into pvp, few questions
It’s still the same. Check back in a couple months.
It’s still the same. Check back in a couple months.
Seriously?!
It’s still the same. Check back in a couple months.
Seriously?!
To be fair, more or less the same with minor changes.
New map is innovative, no more paids (semi-step backwards, but it was for a good reason – consolidate the community).
Class balance is the biggest problem and unfortunately the sPvP team has no influence in that area.
Yes. Besides the fact that paid tournaments don’t exist anymore and minor class balances that don’t really change anything in the end, the game is still the same.
Oh yeah, there’s a new map out. Nothing to be thrilled about, anyway.
Gosh that really sucks….Are there no MMOs with good pvp anymore
Gosh that really sucks….Are there no MMOs with good pvp anymore
I ask myself this everyday, and then I realize that there really never was an MMO with good, competitive PvP. The closest thing might be WoW Arena during TBC, but that was more to the popularity of the game rather than the actual PvP gameplay. And of course there’s the whole constant RNG and gear kitten in MMOs.
GW2 was a step in the right direction as far as MMO PvP is concerned, at least with the idea behind it. Regardless of the actual implementation, the whole notion of no grind, and skill > gear is really basic to what is required. It’s the only reason why I’m still playing this game.
If your looking for a “next best thing” theres a few out there. TF2 offers battleground style play with various play styles, different classes per say that each play completely differently and since you have to aim everything. skill based play.
TBH, they would have to heavily consolidate and remove a ton of the customizations to runes/sigils/abilities/traits and focus on core strengths of each class to really have a realistic shot at balancing this game in the next 12 months. Doing that would have also meant less things to bug out and a healthier game. BUT, they bit off more than they could chew, which is why they’re still in a beta state with the game with tons of bugs, major imbalances, tons of noob trap choices (bad abilities, runes, sigils traits etc), and no BASIC match make features to help mold it into an e-sport. (we’re just now getting any progress on that).
So, ya, i wrote the game off and will check back end of the summer (assuming something in the same field of gameplay doesnt come out that surpassess it) and see if a year of development was enough to get it where it needs to be. But no point playing a game you dont fully enjoy when there are TONS of amazing multiplayer games out there. looking forward to the new gears of war, plenty of new fighting games etc coming out, and league of legends is solid and already a huge E-sport scene, and dota 2 is working towards a release soon So plenty of options, i say go find other fun games and come back when this one is out of post-release beta.
“Edit” just fyi, i check back on these forums about once every so often. So obviously like many I think the general concept of the gameplay is amazing. If the money spent on the pve side of the game was all focused in on the spvp i bet this game would have higher online activity than league of legends (holding an extremely high amount of traffic for the last year). And probably be the next huge take over for E-sport gameplay. But its obvious budget and prioritys are split…so its just gonna have to sit in the oven for awhile longer. Hopefully they get it together, or some other company sees where they dropped the ball but recognize what they did right and make the game it should have been.
(edited by Zinwrath.2049)
@Zinwrath I honestly was a little surprised when I was playing GW2 at the whole no set stats for each class. It would be far easier to balance and make builds viable if everyone used the same amulet for example. Warriors used soldier, thieves use berserker, and so on. It would also make each profession feel a lot more distinct and like that profession. A bunker ele just doesn’t make sense for what you’d expect from a wizard archetype. You expect long range, high damage glass cannon. Not the exact opposite.
Ironically, the ability to customize your build has let to less variability then I would expect. Sure, you can make your warrior into a condition base build, but why bother when a trap ranger or condi necromancer does it better? Why bother making a ranger greatsword glass cannon when a shatter mesmer or bs thief or 100b warrior is better at the job?
If everyone had artificially less options, we’d have more variety since each profession could be balanced exclusively around that niche. Let’s use a necromancer. Let’s say the necromancer is made for boon removal and condition manipulation. They’re going to be the best at that. A thief would be the best at mobility and single target burst, but a warrior would have more AoE, would have more sustained and wouldn’t be as glassy compared to a thief. Both a thief and a warrior would be vulnerable to conditions and lack support, though, so you’d want to bring an elementalist (who is not a bunker) or a guardian. That’s the idea.
Even in the current conquest format, they could just simply make it 1 or 2 of the same class only so you wouldn’t have 5 guardian teams.
(edited by Larynx.2453)
@Larynx Your actually correct. I think the reason they did NOT do this is simply for one unfortunate reason. It shares these professions with another game (guild wars 2 pve). They wanted to make sure each profession option could apply any role or play style in a group(dungeon) so you have what we have now.
In a game like the SPVP side of things when you can just easily create a new profession on a whim to play, this sort of design isnt practical or important in the least bit.
I wrote another thread on the design flaws and pros in this game earlier. But like i stated there a lot of choices you’d have to make to help the health of the game that would create serious backlash due to people becoming accustomed to what we have now and the synergy it trys to maintain with the pve side of the game.
For example. I dont beleive having multiple races of completely different sizes is a smart move for spvp. You end up with asuras vs norns that are going to offer different advantages to new players (and even vets in some scenerios). It would have been ok if each profession was set to a specific race thus you would balance around that. But take a game like gears of war that has two different races…yet they have the exact same body types, so there is no advantage from one to the next visually. Try today to say “you cant play your pve character in spvp but must create a Human (or sylvari?)” and you would have MAJOR upset. Had they said this before the game was launched and gave reason that it would make the game more balanced…90%+ people would be ok with it.
But back to what you are saying. Its true, if you take out the over abundance of options (many of which are nub traps aka, bad choices that make you weaker for choosing Y over X). And just give each profession a more focused style of play, remove the illusion of strategic choice in sigils and runes (there will ALWAYS be a few that are good and many that are bad). And leave the majority of customization up to what profession you chose and what abilitys you chose, and you’d STILL have a very exciting game with tons of replayability and strategy.
Take TF2 even after they added several alternate weapon options, it still doesnt take a calculator and research to jump into a match and start killing people. You dont have to figure out the perfect combination of abilities, traits, runes, sigils, amulets before you can walk into a match. This is TOO MANY VARIABLES TO BALANCE ACROSS 8 PROFESSIONS. (sorry i like caps). Also like you said allowing each profession to do everything and then try to make them equally good at everything is too much work for too little pay off. TF2 i can grab a class that looks like what i’d like to do, and GO!.
The game offers enough twitch reaction style combat, with some aoe aimed skills and dodge mechanics that it really doesnt need this added layer of complexity. Some people think adding more enhances the game, but really all it does is create another barrier to new players, makes it harder to balance, and gives the illusion of strategy (as there will always be a couple “builds” that work best).
If they had pulled back even further on the pre-game strategy. Focused professions into narrower archtypes and styles of play. They could have had a TON easier time balancing it, and branching out new abilities (even a new profession or two) allowing more resources to be directed towards much needed game development like alternate map styles and match making.
But they did not. They were at the buffett and everything looked so good they decided to throw it all on their plate and now they gotta figure out how they’re gonna get it all into their stomach. I think the core features of this game (balanced pvp, no gear grind for better stats, twitch style battleground gameplay) where what made the spvp so attractive. Not the fluff that obviously was incorperated due to it sharing its professions with the PVE mmo side of the game. I still think if it was a seperate title with complete focus, it would be one of the best online pvp games in the world today.
(edited by Zinwrath.2049)
That is my biggest issue with this game, every class can do everything. There is no real difference in classes. I am glade I am not the only that feels this way, I thought I was crazy.
So recently the biggest thing that has happened is that they are moving away from hotjoin and tournament queue systems (which is good), we’ve gotten match making rating, and single round games (instead of 3 round tournies), balancing isn’t perfect, but better than it was when you probably played.
The catch: this mmr (match making rating) is individual-player based, but there are no limitations to how many people you can queue with to be on your own team (imagine if you combined a solo queue and team ladder), on top of that you actually have 2 ratings – 1 for single round matches, and 1 for an old 3 round traditional free that no one ever plays and takes 1000 years to get a queue for, but it’s okay because both of these MMRs are hidden (sarcasm); you will only see your placement in relation to your peers -no numerical rating.
tldr; yes the game is better, but it still needs a handful of changes. Anet has been great about listening to the community though, so we’re hopeful.