Guild Wars 2

Other than reaper and dragon hunter, all the elite specs just added new tools to the class without taking anything away. This just removes all or some of the weaknesses that the class had before, and forces players to take it so builds go from choosing 3 trait lines to choosing 2. So like the title suggests, I want to see what people think of making the elite specs more of a choice rather then a mandatory include (like the devs originally promised). The ideas I had would be to do something like:

-make druid have only one pet since they have ancestral form
-make chronomancer continuum split replace a shatter skill rather than just add one
-have warrior primal burst replace the regular burst

Now granted these are just some of my ideas and I’m sure there are flaws with them. I also think that if they were to do this they would have to re-balance around it. They could still make the elite specs an overall more powerful option, but it would at least give more weaknesses to the elite specs so they don’t have the tools to deal with everything. It would also make the power difference a little smaller so core specs aren’t completely useless and can still be considered in build making. However, the main idea is that there would at least be some value in using the core specs even if it is not as strong. This could give the possibility for a core spec to do something that an elite spec can’t which could be very effective in the meta so they maybe could see play again.

TL;DR: make the elite specs take something minor away from the core class since what it is adding is so strong. That way players have to think if it is worth taking that spec or not when making their build as it will give them new weaknesses as well as new strengths.

To some extent you could say “well those added mechanics come at the price of a minor trait” but let us be honest, they are usually much stronger than just that. And even DH and Reaper’s mechanics are in general straight upgrades to the core mechanics. Try to compare the amazing “1 aegis” of F3 for core guardian to the 5s block of DH. “oh but it’s not instant”… yeah huge tradeoff!

To expand on your suggestion, for example, for Mesmer/Chronomancer, I believe Continuum Split should have replaced distorsion since effectively it offers some sort of temporary immunity (weaker, but with the significant added benefit of resetting your cooldowns). Sadly this makes some trait/skill interaction messy (signet of illusion resetting Continuum Split? no thank you).

Silverkey.2078:

To some extent you could say “well those added mechanics come at the price of a minor trait” but let us be honest, they are usually much stronger than just that. And even DH and Reaper’s mechanics are in general straight upgrades to the core mechanics. Try to compare the amazing “1 aegis” of F3 for core guardian to the 5s block of DH. “oh but it’s not instant”… yeah huge tradeoff!

Now although the DH virtues are a major upgrade, the nerco/reaper shroud is closer to what I’m proposing. The main thing is that reaper shroud doesn’t have the range that necro shroud does and therefore can more easily be kited. Now it doesn’t really make a difference in build choice since the rest of reaper shroud is just better, but it is the closet in-game example to my idea.

Sigh, yeah, they really should. The worst offender is mesmer’s but they’re all pretty dumb and they could be fixed pretty easily using a similar matrix:

• Chronomancer’s don’t get distortion (shatter)
• Druid: Only get one pet
• Scrapper: can’t revive/stomp without the gyro
• Berserker: no access to non-primal bursts, buff to non-primals or nerf to primals to even them out.
• Herald: add a cost to using facet of nature; reduce energy to max out at 50%

I do think these two have the right idea just some imbalances you’ve mentioned.

• Guard: buff normal virtues (Justice gives 1 unblockable attack, Valor has a lowered CD and heals for as much as the wings, courage blocks the next 3 attacks)
• Necro: buff to normal shroud

I will say Daredevil needs a whole rework along with some improvements to theif. It’s so dumb, Dash is clearly the strongest dodge as it makes you immune to immobilization and is pretty much the whole acrobatics line in a single trait. Not to mention it gives an additional dodge AND makes your dodges better. Not taking it is a huge handicap.

Dr Patrik.3642:

Silverkey.2078:

To some extent you could say “well those added mechanics come at the price of a minor trait” but let us be honest, they are usually much stronger than just that. And even DH and Reaper’s mechanics are in general straight upgrades to the core mechanics. Try to compare the amazing “1 aegis” of F3 for core guardian to the 5s block of DH. “oh but it’s not instant”… yeah huge tradeoff!

Now although the DH virtues are a major upgrade, the nerco/reaper shroud is closer to what I’m proposing. The main thing is that reaper shroud doesn’t have the range that necro shroud does and therefore can more easily be kited. Now it doesn’t really make a difference in build choice since the rest of reaper shroud is just better, but it is the closet in-game example to my idea.

Lol, reaper shroud is massively powerful, it gives the necro very strong aoe cleave with quite a large range that is not blocked by some pillars and comes with stability and a gap closer, among other things.

It is the very definition of what you are talking about in terms of how the HoT specs take away the weaknesses of a class. I imagine the next expansion will give them blocks, evades, invun, perma-swiftness, and stealth as well.

Yasha.5963:

Lol, reaper shroud is massively powerful, it gives the necro very strong aoe cleave with quite a large range that is not blocked by some pillars and comes with stability and a gap closer, among other things.

It is the very definition of what you are talking about in terms of how the HoT specs take away the weaknesses of a class. I imagine the next expansion will give them blocks, evades, invun, perma-swiftness, and stealth as well.

The downsides are that you lose all forms of range, lose an unblockable skill, lose a instant interupt, necro’s longest duration chill skill (chill specialisation am I right),… . There are losses on the board but reaper simply offers stability and a more refined shroud. Death shroud still has some questionable design decisions: sloww aa but procs on that aa, a forced gap closer in a ranged spec ( which is one of your few condi skills),… .

Hooglese.4860:

Sigh, yeah, they really should. The worst offender is mesmer’s but they’re all pretty dumb and they could be fixed pretty easily using a similar matrix:

• Chronomancer’s don’t get distortion (shatter)
• Druid: Only get one pet
• Scrapper: can’t revive/stomp without the gyro
• Berserker: no access to non-primal bursts, buff to non-primals or nerf to primals to even them out.
• Herald: add a cost to using facet of nature; reduce energy to max out at 50%

I do think these two have the right idea just some imbalances you’ve mentioned.

• Guard: buff normal virtues (Justice gives 1 unblockable attack, Valor has a lowered CD and heals for as much as the wings, courage blocks the next 3 attacks)
• Necro: buff to normal shroud

I will say Daredevil needs a whole rework along with some improvements to theif. It’s so dumb, Dash is clearly the strongest dodge as it makes you immune to immobilization and is pretty much the whole acrobatics line in a single trait. Not to mention it gives an additional dodge AND makes your dodges better. Not taking it is a huge handicap.

buff guardian. your joking right?

While core specs (least necro & ranger) need some upgrading. Core necro is still a cc ragdoll, core ranger removes condies with around same efficiency as thieves, while core engi requires piano player keyboard skills vs warrior-easy scrapper playstyle.

Take a look at warr – he got heaps of resistance in his core kit, and his mandatory line is defense not berserker. While the fact that a certain line is a must have is not a good balance, it’s still lightyears ahead of core ranger and necro if you ask me.

Do something like that for’em!

You cannot remove 1 pet from druid without entirely killing the pet mechanic. There are already only very few usable pets because the others die so quickly that you cannot even keep them alive with pet swap. Without pets swap, druid would pretty much use a major part of the class within the first moments of every fight.

Necro needs cd reduction on shroud 4+5, Guard needs cd reduction on core virtues, because they are weaker than dh virtues but have higher cd, which is silly.

Dr Patrik.3642:

Silverkey.2078:

To some extent you could say “well those added mechanics come at the price of a minor trait” but let us be honest, they are usually much stronger than just that. And even DH and Reaper’s mechanics are in general straight upgrades to the core mechanics. Try to compare the amazing “1 aegis” of F3 for core guardian to the 5s block of DH. “oh but it’s not instant”… yeah huge tradeoff!

Now although the DH virtues are a major upgrade, the nerco/reaper shroud is closer to what I’m proposing. The main thing is that reaper shroud doesn’t have the range that necro shroud does and therefore can more easily be kited. Now it doesn’t really make a difference in build choice since the rest of reaper shroud is just better, but it is the closet in-game example to my idea.

F3 of DH already has a huge flaw/counter, even if they have stability, but ill shut up, since most player just want to spam 11111 and expext to win.

Anet needs to decrease damage output so players need to start thinking more, instead of expect press of skill and high damage apears on target.

Elite specs should all have a weakness in the form you suggest, rather than just be an addition.

I would take it one step further, and make the class-specific trait line (Arcana, Illusions, Beastmastery, etc.) all be a vanilla “elite spec” with the skills related to them locked out if you don’t take them.

Finally, to add to the list of “drawbacks” for eles, I would propose:

- Increase base attunement-swap CD’s, but decrease the pre-charge, cast-time, and “punishment” CD-increase for overloading on ele. Thus, arcana eles are the ones that swap alot, but tempests have some extra powerful skills that make up the gaps in rotations.

The whole concept that is required is that restrictions actually promote diversity and creativity. If you have to make tradeoffs or work within the confines of a spec, you find new creative solutions.

The exact examples of weaknesses mentioned aren’t important! The whole point is the idea that the elite specs have a significant drawback and more tools rather than just more tools. That way there is more build choice rather than just cookie cutter builds. Also, I never said that the current reaper and dragon hunter examples are adequate examples of what I’m suggesting, because they aren’t! The reaper shroud and new virtues are better versions than the core ones, but they do replace the core versions which is not done on the other classes. They are simply to closet there is in the game so it helps to show others my idea.

UP!
I always wanted to see the specialization line REPLACE the core main line.

You can be a Zerk, but you can’t use the discipline line, reserved for “Core” warriors only!

Doing so, even “Core” classes become specializations, and open the door for even more future specializations, because the spec line is only 1 (the current third one)

Obviously this require additional balancing.