Guild Wars 2

Hello everyone.
I don’t know if it has been discussed yet, but I want to attract some attention on the sheer gold rewards given by PvP.

We all know that, once you have been calibrated in the correct skill division, PvP is the hardest game content this game offers due to its intrinsic unpredictability, which no other PvE content can offer.

What bugs me is that it offers way lower gold income compared to other contents, even though the efforts you have to put in is significantly higher.

Right now, running a fractal, which can be completed by experienced teams in about 20 mins max, offers rewards for at least 1g through encryptions and even more if you have spare fractal encryption keys.
Running tarir offers even more gold income, while being even easier compared to fractal, at about 20g per hour. Same with silverwastes.

Now, as a PvP player mainly, I feel I’m missing out by using my time playing PvP, since if I ran fractal or tarir, I would get significantly higher gold income that can make my progress towards a legendary weapon much faster (which is right now my main goal).

In my opinion, ranked PvP matches should give at least 1g per win and 50s per loss to be on par with other contents, while Leagues should give higher gold income too, but I refrain to speak about them right now because I’ve read about a rework of the league system.
This is no way exaggerated if you consider that a seasoned PvP player will have about 3k games played with a 50% winrate. That is about 2250k gold income over 500 hours of sheer playing assuming 10m average per match (so excluding queue times and wait time).

TL:DR;
Increase the gold rewards across the board for ranked play in PvP.
1g per win at least in ranked.

PvP players don’t use gold in PvP. Adding 1G per win in ranked could lead to inflation.

It’s only natural that PvP rewards less gold since you spend way less as well. 3g per sigil, 5g per rune, 10g for an amulet and you can use them acount wide whereas PvE and WvW players have to equip every single character (or craft ascended armor to move around) which is way more expensive.

Lets compare your proposed rewards to other content.

I’m going to double your estimated time to reach those 3k games to 1,000 hours, at which point someone would have earned approx 2250 gold under your proposal.

https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/values.summary.liquidSell

Compare that to the above link, where the top 10% of accounts that have played 500-1000 hours have even 1400 liquid gold (and yes, that 2250 would be mostly liquid gold considering you need to spend almost no gold to unlock all of the runes and sigils you may need). Only 3% of players on GW2Efficiency have 2260 liquid gold or more after playing 500-1000 hours.

How can you defend that as being balanced? Not only would this lead to massive inflation, but its simply not balanced against what the game reflects. If you want to earn lots of gold, then go do SW farm, of ABML. Otherwise suck it up, as a PvP player you don’t even need it.

Lot of people saying: “You don’t even need gold in PvP”. I could say: “You don’t need gold in PvE. Exotic sets are adequate”. Both points are true and valid to support the pros or cons of this debate but both points are also failing to mention the primary reason why a player would want to grind gold in a game like Guild Wars 2. What is this primary reason and incentive to grind gold? Obviously cosmetics.

The large majority of cosmetics require mucho gold to obtain in Guild Wars 2. SPvP gold gain is actually so small that it’s almost negligent to consider as gold gain at all in this inflated economy. The rewards tracks infrequently reward things like charged lodestones “to build unique exotics”. Half of the rewards in SPvP are tomes of knowledge and shards of glory that are completely useless. This is actually kind of unfair for SPvP exclusive players in terms of their ability to obtain swag look compared to that of a PvE player.

SPvP rewards could use these changes:

• 1g per win and 50s per loss. This would result in a maximum of 4 gold per hour, which still isn’t anywhere near what a player would make who was running t4 fractals, silverwastes or auric basin metas for one hour and that isn’t even to mention the special currencies from PvE like fractal relics which allow players to obtain extra wealth as a side bonus.
• Allow Tomes of Knowledge to be sold at merchants for 50s to 1g. Possibly start devising mystic forge recipes that allow us to use the stacks of tomes we have laying around for something useful that equates to obtaining skins.
• In general, find ways to allow SPvP exclusive players to more easily obtain weapon/armor skins that would otherwise be impractical to aim it, such as “Volcanus”, “Mjolnir” or any Legendary. It may be a good idea to create new reward tracks that work specifically towards these kinds of things. That or simply double the progress rate of reward tracks, at the very least.

Maybe we’d have more player base in the mists if it wasn’t a requirement to PvE to obtain desirable cosmetics. oO

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Lot of people saying: “You don’t even need gold in PvP”. I could say: “You don’t need gold in PvE. Exotic sets are adequate”. Both points are true and valid to support the pros or cons of this debate but both points are also failing to mention the primary reason why a player would want to grind gold in a game like Guild Wars 2. What is this primary reason and incentive to grind gold? Obviously cosmetics.

The large majority of cosmetics require mucho gold to obtain in Guild Wars 2. SPvP gold gain is actually so small that it’s almost negligent to consider as gold gain at all in this inflated economy. The rewards tracks infrequently reward things like charged lodestones “to build unique exotics”. Half of the rewards in SPvP are tomes of knowledge and shards of glory that are completely useless. This is actually kind of unfair for SPvP exclusive players in terms of their ability to obtain swag look compared to that of a PvE player.

SPvP rewards could use these changes:

• 1g per win and 50s per loss. This would result in a maximum of 4 gold per hour, which still isn’t anywhere near what a player would make who was running t4 fractals, silverwastes or auric basin metas for one hour and that isn’t even to mention the special currencies from PvE like fractal relics which allow players to obtain extra wealth as a side bonus.
• Allow Tomes of Knowledge to be sold at merchants for 50s to 1g. Possibly start devising mystic forge recipes that allow us to use the stacks of tomes we have laying around for something useful that equates to obtaining skins.
• In general, find ways to allow SPvP exclusive players to more easily obtain weapon/armor skins that would otherwise be impractical to aim it, such as “Volcanus”, “Mjolnir” or any Legendary. It may be a good idea to create new reward tracks that work specifically towards these kinds of things. That or simply double the progress rate of reward tracks, at the very least.

PvE does require gold to equip characters unlike PvP which has a one-time expense with the runes. If PvE players wish to advance in FotM then they must acquire ascended gear which has most cost. Waypointing also carried a small cost. So no, PvP and PvE are not the same in regards to player costs.

SW and AB farms don’t really generate new gold into the economy while increasing PvP gold rewards do. I could support an increased in per match gold rewards so long as the existing daily cap remains unchanged.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Lot of people saying: “You don’t even need gold in PvP”. I could say: “You don’t need gold in PvE. Exotic sets are adequate”. Both points are true and valid to support the pros or cons of this debate but both points are also failing to mention the primary reason why a player would want to grind gold in a game like Guild Wars 2. What is this primary reason and incentive to grind gold? Obviously cosmetics.

The large majority of cosmetics require mucho gold to obtain in Guild Wars 2. SPvP gold gain is actually so small that it’s almost negligent to consider as gold gain at all in this inflated economy. The rewards tracks infrequently reward things like charged lodestones “to build unique exotics”. Half of the rewards in SPvP are tomes of knowledge and shards of glory that are completely useless. This is actually kind of unfair for SPvP exclusive players in terms of their ability to obtain swag look compared to that of a PvE player.

SPvP rewards could use these changes:

• 1g per win and 50s per loss. This would result in a maximum of 4 gold per hour, which still isn’t anywhere near what a player would make who was running t4 fractals, silverwastes or auric basin metas for one hour and that isn’t even to mention the special currencies from PvE like fractal relics which allow players to obtain extra wealth as a side bonus.
• Allow Tomes of Knowledge to be sold at merchants for 50s to 1g. Possibly start devising mystic forge recipes that allow us to use the stacks of tomes we have laying around for something useful that equates to obtaining skins.
• In general, find ways to allow SPvP exclusive players to more easily obtain weapon/armor skins that would otherwise be impractical to aim it, such as “Volcanus”, “Mjolnir” or any Legendary. It may be a good idea to create new reward tracks that work specifically towards these kinds of things. That or simply double the progress rate of reward tracks, at the very least.

Maybe we’d have more player base in the mists if it wasn’t a requirement to PvE to obtain desirable cosmetics. oO

This is ridiculous. PvP players only need the runes and sigils, which don’t take much gold to unlock all of them. The cosmetics are not needed in PvP, nor are they needed in PvE.

But unlike PvP, PvE players have to worry about gearing their players up. Even though they are relatively cheap, exotics do cost money, especially when you start getting into multiple sets for your character, or gearing up alts. If you want to get into FoTM, you are going to have to invest a serious amount of gold into ascended armor and the infusions. Since stats don’t matter in PvP you could go in and play in white gear and have the same stats as other players, so this isn’t a concern.

PvE and WvW players also have to worry about food and utilities, which can cost a lot if you use them all the time. Wp costs add up overtime as well. By no means do PvP players need anywhere near the same amount of liquid gold as PvE and WvW players do, its all want.

And frankly, 1 gold per win and 50 silver per loss is just an absurdly high amount of liquid gold entering the game. ABML and SW chest farm introduce almost no liquid gold into the game (indeed after accounting for salvage costs they may take gold out of the game), they just give players lots of mats to sell for money on the TP.

Some of these responses here seem to assume:

• Player joins GW2
• Player decides between 3x different game modes: pve, wvw, spvp
• Player picks one game mode and never touches the others
• He picks spvp so he will never need gold

The truth is that most players play all game modes and it would be awfully nice to be able to make a bit of realistic igg wage while running fun pvp matches instead of grinding the same pve content over and over. Toss whatever argument you want at this but the issue here is time invested vs. wealth gained. Maybe we would have more player base in the mists if it wasn’t required to leave to get that gold that everyone wants for one reason or another.

You mentioned the issue with 50s on loss and 1g on win being too much liquid gold dumped in to the community but I hardly see this being a problem in comparison to:

• The very small spvp player base
• Gems bought converted in to gold
• Liquid gain methods such as when a player opens his fractal boxes and sells the junk to merchant after a 30-40 minute t4 run, rendering 10-15+ liquid gold a night.
• Liquid gain methods like chain running easy dungeons for an hour with the new +5 gold repeatable achievement, rendering an easy 8-10 liquid gold an hour. That’s not even per night, that’s per hour or less.

So if you still, after reading the above, want to toss the “too much liquid gold gain” rebuttal, I can say to you this: Maybe liquid gold gain needs to be turned up in spvp and turned down in other modes.

~ There you go

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Some of these responses here seem to assume:

• Player joins GW2
• Player decides between 3x different game modes: pve, wvw, spvp
• Player picks one game mode and never touches the others
• He picks spvp so he will never need gold

The truth is that most players play all game modes and it would be awfully nice to be able to make a bit of realistic igg wage while running fun pvp matches instead of grinding the same pve content over and over. Toss whatever argument you want at this but the issue here is time invested vs. wealth gained. Maybe we would have more player base in the mists if it wasn’t required to leave to get that gold that everyone wants for one reason or another.

You mentioned the issue with 50s on loss and 1g on win being too much liquid gold dumped in to the community but I hardly see this being a problem in comparison to:

• The very small spvp player base
• Gems bought converted in to gold
• Liquid gain methods such as when a player opens his fractal boxes and sells the junk to merchant after a 30-40 minute t4 run, rendering 10-15+ liquid gold a night.
• Liquid gain methods like chain running easy dungeons for an hour with the new +5 gold repeatable achievement, rendering an easy 8-10 liquid gold an hour. That’s not even per night, that’s per hour or less.

So if you still, after reading the above, want to toss the “too much liquid gold gain” rebuttal, I can say to you this: Maybe liquid gold gain needs to be turned up in spvp and turned down in other modes.

~ There you go

As long as the daily caps remain in place then I don’t personally see a problem with wins going up to 1G each. The PvP only side started because the OP is primarily a PvP player and stated such in their post.

volpenvieh.3201:

It’s only natural that PvP rewards less gold since you spend way less as well. 3g per sigil, 5g per rune, 10g for an amulet and you can use them acount wide whereas PvE and WvW players have to equip every single character (or craft ascended armor to move around) which is way more expensive.

Only a single character is required to run PvE contents, you don’t need to gear them all. You can do the lv40 fractal farm with just ascended trinkets and weapons, which can be acquired with very little gold expense, while offering much more gold income compared to PvP. That without saying that the efforts are way less compared to getting good in PvP.

OriOri.8724:

Lets compare your proposed rewards to other content.

I’m going to double your estimated time to reach those 3k games to 1,000 hours, at which point someone would have earned approx 2250 gold under your proposal.

https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/values.summary.liquidSell

Compare that to the above link, where the top 10% of accounts that have played 500-1000 hours have even 1400 liquid gold (and yes, that 2250 would be mostly liquid gold considering you need to spend almost no gold to unlock all of the runes and sigils you may need). Only 3% of players on GW2Efficiency have 2260 liquid gold or more after playing 500-1000 hours.

How can you defend that as being balanced? Not only would this lead to massive inflation, but its simply not balanced against what the game reflects. If you want to earn lots of gold, then go do SW farm, of ABML. Otherwise suck it up, as a PvP player you don’t even need it.

This comparison makes no sense. The statistics you linked consider only freshly created accounts, which means that of those 500-1000h, lots of them are spent only by leveling the characters and gearing it up, not by farming. I even doubt that those people started farming before the 300h mark.
PvP players needs gold as much as PvE players for the exact same reason: cosmetics.

My overall point is that if you are playing the content you enjoy (PvP) you are actually being less efficient compared to playing other parts of the game, which is kinda unfair considering the overall GW2 philosophy.

If your worries are about the inflation, just give valuable materials instead, like ectos or T6, so the PvP players can make some profit out of them.

sorrow.2364:

volpenvieh.3201:

It’s only natural that PvP rewards less gold since you spend way less as well. 3g per sigil, 5g per rune, 10g for an amulet and you can use them acount wide whereas PvE and WvW players have to equip every single character (or craft ascended armor to move around) which is way more expensive.

Only a single character is required to run PvE contents, you don’t need to gear them all. You can do the lv40 fractal farm with just ascended trinkets and weapons, which can be acquired with very little gold expense, while offering much more gold income compared to PvP. That without saying that the efforts are way less compared to getting good in PvP.

This comparison makes no sense. The statistics you linked consider only freshly created accounts, which means that of those 500-1000h, lots of them are spent only by leveling the characters and gearing it up, not by farming. I even doubt that those people started farming before the 300h mark.
PvP players needs gold as much as PvE players for the exact same reason: cosmetics.

---

My overall point is that if you are playing the content you enjoy (PvP) you are actually being less efficient compared to playing other parts of the game, which is kinda unfair considering the overall GW2 philosophy.

If your worries are about the inflation, just give valuable materials instead, like ectos or T6, so the PvP players can make some profit out of them.

The comparison makes perfect sense considering you don’t need to invest 300 hours into the game before you start PvPing. Mind you, you estimated that it would take 500 hours or playtime to finish that many games, and I doubled that estimate to 1,000, so don’t come in here arguing over how long it takes someone in PvE to start “grinding for gold”, its a different issue. But hey, I’ll even up my end of it again, by quadrupling the number of hours of gametime all the way up to 2,000 hours.

By that same link, only 13.5% of players that have played between 1000 and 2000 hours of GW2 have 2260 liquid gold on their accounts, if you were to count the accounts that have played 0-2000 hours, that % drops significantly. The point still stands that your proposed liquid gold rewards are ridiculously high.

But let me move on to your other arguments

Only a single character is required to run PvE contents, you don’t need to gear them all.

Yea, if you only want to play one class then you only need 1 character. Same thing applies to PvP too, if you have ever played more than 1 class in PvP then this argument goes flying out the window as pure, 100% hypocrisy.

PvP players needs gold as much as PvE players for the exact same reason: cosmetics.

I literally just told you that this isn’t true. PvE players need gold for gearing up, food, and utilities at the very least. All things that PvP players don’t need. And no one needs cosmetics. Fact of the matter is, PvE/WvW players are the only ones who even need to gear up, PvP players don’t. So short of buying sigils and runes, a strictly PvP player doesn’t need any other gold.

My overall point is that if you are playing the content you enjoy (PvP) you are actually being less efficient compared to playing other parts of the game, which is kinda unfair considering the overall GW2 philosophy.

I enjoy leveling alts and kittening around in the game, I don’t enjoy mindlessly farming AB, DS, or SW, so I don’t participate in that content very often. But I don’t see you campaigning for me to be getting the same level of rewards as those activities yield, why is that I wonder? Your response would probably be along the lines of “You have to go out and farm if you want to get gold”, well the same thing applies to you. If you want gold then you need to go out and farm for it. It shouldn’t be handed to you just because you don’t want to play certain content.

Your entire mindset towards this game is summed up by this one comment you made

sorrow.2364:

You can do the lv40 fractal farm with just ascended trinkets and weapons,

The game isn’t all about farming. When I, and others, mentioned fractals we weren’t referring to farming fractal 40. We were talking about doing all the fractals, increasing your fractal level, having fun with challenging content. As soon as you realize that this game is not just about farming your experience will be a lot better.

If we’re basing rewards solely on what a player needs for that game mode, then why do I have so many stacks of Tomes in my bank?

Long story short
Pls play pvp cause you like pvp.
Playing pvp for gold doesn´t make any sense imo.
Yes, you maybe want that fancy skin, well, right now you definitly get good amount of stuff to buy fancy stuff. It even gets to a point that its far to much for your inventory. Thanks to pvp I sit on 540 transmutation-charges. Thats something I love anet for

Imo there are far to much people aiming for skins and titels and I don´t know what else in pvp, when there is actually nothing else than playing pvp for pvp´s sake.

If you have no dope skins cos you’ve been spending your time in the mists, then what good is 540 transmutation charges?

The fact is, most people do both pvp and pve. When you join that queue, currently you’re making a choice to miss out on decent rewards for your gameplay. We don’t even get to fight for prestige. Rank is a joke, titles are a joke, league divisions are a joke, the backpiece is a joke, and the ladder runnoft.

Sure, play pvp cos you enjoy it, but any online game that can’t manage to give its players something else worth playing for is failing.

I cant believe people actually argue against better rewards for PvP.

I got to legendary S1, S2 and S3 but i decided not to really bother S4 because of time purposes.

I missed out on alot money by playing PvP. Instead of farming AB, TD and DS i was sitting in the HOTM getting to legendary. I had guild mates getting 100 ectos in 1 hour. I made about 2 gold a hour and they were literally making 200g a day from farming meta events for a couple hours.

People are saying play PvP for fun which i get but come on. I have a guild hall, can i get some decent decorations for it? World Bosses in the core game give decorations, Raids gives out tons of everything such as new skins- guild decorations- potential legendary armor- minis- and gold to boot. Why is it so wrong to ask for anything in PvP?

The PvP community get mini llamas and those guild challenger trophies. Thats it, in WvW you will make for gold and karma but you dont really get anything fun to play with.

Anet hjas given everything to people who play HOT content, why is it wrong to simply ask for more in other areas of the game?

PvP has less rewards to discourage PvE’ers from using it as a gold farm.

SW:TOR had this problem in it’s early days where people would just sit on the offnode and afk for the rewards. It wasn’t even that great of a farm but it was done anyways because afk’ing matches was deemed easier than PvE farming.

Such is why we can’t have nice things.

Crinn.7864:

PvP has less rewards to discourage PvE’ers from using it as a gold farm.

SW:TOR had this problem in it’s early days where people would just sit on the offnode and afk for the rewards. It wasn’t even that great of a farm but it was done anyways because afk’ing matches was deemed easier than PvE farming.

Such is why we can’t have nice things.

Dwayna help us, this is a perfect statement.

PvE 1 hour=100g

and

PvP 1 hour = 2 gold

My god if there was only some way to create a BALANCE so that everyone could benefit. ( makes funny face and puts hand on chin in deep thinking attitude)

No but seriously, Anet made PvP rranks easy for PvE players, Anet got rid of ticket tournaments, Anet got rid of leader boards, Anet got rid of the PvP vendors/skins so they could merge it into PvE.

It be nice if they actually did something positive for PvP or WvW.

Important to note that no one is asking for a gold farm in spvp. These players who play all game modes would like to see a realistic investment of time vs. gain in spvp, that’s all.

Right now 50s an hour for 3-4 matches played and a whopping 3g – 5g for a whole reward track completed is just plain malnourishment. Older players who are indeed working on the expensive stuff cannot progress at all towards their endeavors while running spvp.

They could double liquid gold income from matches or double progression speed of reward tracks at the least, maybe both. Right now the income of overall wealth from spvp is pocket change.

I don’t think this would be unreasonable:

1. Double gold per match.
2. Double quantity of mob and crafting loot boxes gained from reward tracks (or double the loot gained from each box).
3. Replace 75% of the Tome rewards with mob or crafting boxes, or give us something useful to do with excess Tomes.
4. Replace Shards of Glory as individual rewards with mob or crafting boxes, and add shards to the final reward.
5. Replace transmutation charges as individual rewards with mob or crafting boxes, and add charges to the final reward.

Loot from mob boxes is basically just salvage fodder, so there’s a better solution out there. But this might be a good start.