Guild Wars 2

It’s always the same people. Funny really. The ones that defend mesmers are also the ones that complain about other classes being OP.

Getting seriously sick of all the knee jerk qq’ers saying Grenades are “Bugged”. (I have not mained engineer for a long time).

Grenade Barrage and Grenades are piercing it is NOT BUGGED! Do your research.
So shut up please and thank you. Stop spreading false information.

What you are seeing is a combination of changes causing high damage. It is a balancing issue with multiple variables.

Really irked by all these people spouting unverified and false facts into the community. Those are the same whiners who get classes incorrectly (not unjustly) nerfed and cause good community advice to go unheeded.

The first video linked is stupid. The guy is showing a pure zerker glass Engi. Yes, it is a funny cheese build but he is a 100% liability to any tPVP team with very little benefit. All it takes is for 1 person to instant kill him every time he shows his ugly face and it will be a 4v5 for the entire game.

if this isn’t a bug it is the most disgusting show of balance dev team incompetence i’ve ever witnessed

Ahhh thanks for this post… now I understand why I was dropping dead instantly.

Let me clarify since people like Toxsa do not seem to understand.

“Grenade Barrage is Bugged.” <—- Disagree strongly and kittened off @ ppl making statements out of ignorance.

“Grenade Barrage Damage is OP.” <—- Agree, due to new changes and mechanics Anet has implemented.

ShadowAce.5432:

Let me clarify since people like Toxsa do not seem to understand.

“Grenade Barrage is Bugged.” <—- Disagree strongly and kittened off @ ppl making statements out of ignorance.

“Grenade Barrage Damage is OP.” <—- Agree, due to new changes and mechanics Anet has implemented.

Are you seriously saying Barrage + Grenadier Trait is still throwing 7 nades? Because count the circles behind the golem please. If its +7 it means its bugged (which it is)

FYI: those circles show where every nade is going to land. Notice how many circles it has (roughly 13-14). Grenade Barrage with Grenadier trait is bugged, stop protecting it.

I think Barriage is bugged, it hits with 7 nades for 2 times cause of piercing. The problem , in my opinion , is that it is not the only one overpowered skill. They should fix it, ok , but they should also review the dps of many other skills in other professions

I’m not quite sure why people need to be arguing about the fact if the skill is bugged or not. If we all agree on the fact the damage it does is way too high, these threads full of insulting and arguing can stop.

Grenadier is banned in in every organized PvP interaction, can this please be fixed so grenades can be usable

Chaith.8256:

Grenadier is banned in in every organized PvP interaction, can this please be fixed so grenades can be usable

But Chaith, didn’t you hear the forum warriors? It’s not bugged, there’s nothing wrong with it! :P

ronpierce.2760:

Chaith.8256:

Grenadier is banned in in every organized PvP interaction, can this please be fixed so grenades can be usable

But Chaith, didn’t you hear the forum warriors? It’s not bugged, there’s nothing wrong with it! :P

Several people stated it is not a bug, but they do think the damage is too high. Stop putting words in other people’ mouths.

Laraley.7695:

ronpierce.2760:

Chaith.8256:

Grenadier is banned in in every organized PvP interaction, can this please be fixed so grenades can be usable

But Chaith, didn’t you hear the forum warriors? It’s not bugged, there’s nothing wrong with it! :P

Several people stated it is not a bug, but they do think the damage is too high. Stop putting words in other people’ mouths.

So it’s not bugged but somehow the damage is magically higher? It has higher damage because the skill does more hits than supposed to (aka bugged).

The only way to deemed is not a bug if it is intended to pierce. However no piercing projectile skill in the game ever double hits the first target. Imagine rapid fire arrows hitting twice, the horrors.

Akikaze.1307:

Laraley.7695:

ronpierce.2760:

Chaith.8256:

Grenadier is banned in in every organized PvP interaction, can this please be fixed so grenades can be usable

But Chaith, didn’t you hear the forum warriors? It’s not bugged, there’s nothing wrong with it! :P

Several people stated it is not a bug, but they do think the damage is too high. Stop putting words in other people’ mouths.

So it’s not bugged but somehow the damage is magically higher? It has higher damage because the skill does more hits than supposed to (aka bugged).

The only way to deemed is not a bug if it is intended to pierce. However no piercing projectile skill in the game ever double hits the first target. Imagine rapid fire arrows hitting twice, the horrors.

I never stated that it is/isn’t a bug. I said I don’t care what it is, I just want it gone.

I’m just saying that he should stop clamining people don’t see what’s wrong with the skill, most of them do. And that is – it does way too much damage, it doesn’t really matter if it’s a bug/exploit/whatever, it just needs to be fixed. Arguing about this won’t change anything.

Yep, that’s a bug indeed. Piercing grenades could even pass as some sort of new feature, albeit nonsensical. But launching several more grenades can’t be explained as anything else than a bug.
Not that i’m particularly surprised. The patch brought a ton of bugs upon engineers. But it was to be expected, seeing all the changes they’ve made to the class.

Regarding the “piercing” grenades with grenadier, i wonder if that could be related to the increased velocity and some kind of issue with collision detection, like some hardcoded value related to their normal velocity put into some formula.

Laraley.7695:

ronpierce.2760:

Chaith.8256:

Grenadier is banned in in every organized PvP interaction, can this please be fixed so grenades can be usable

But Chaith, didn’t you hear the forum warriors? It’s not bugged, there’s nothing wrong with it! :P

Several people stated it is not a bug, but they do think the damage is too high. Stop putting words in other people’ mouths.

And a few people have said its fine and people need to l2p, stop trying to apply what I say to everyone just to pester me. Inter that you don’t like me because I pointed out Ele is likely getting Warhorn but grow up.

This is a bug, for goodness sake, many people have documented, tested, posted images+videos proving this is a bug, and it is linked to the grenadier trait.

It goes so far as to almost one shotting people even if you don’t aim a barrage just behind them but on them. So the only way to really get around it is to not take grenadier or not use nades. I don’t think I need to express how either is self-defeating.

So can we please stop “assessing if this is a bug or not” and thinking it is some balance issue.

It effects balance, but at the heart of it, it is a bug and it needs to be fixed. I am trying to play Engineer and this is ruining PvP for many of us just as much as those we fight.

Want to test a build using grenade kit? Nope no accurate representations for you.

Want to fight someone 1v1 and ‘honor duel’? Nope no winning fair and square with nade kit on your bar for you.

Want to play in an externally organized PvP tournament with your build at full potential, and representation for your team comp? Nope! Sorry, your skill is bugged so bad it literally ruins the game for others so you can’t.

Don’t want to feel cheap when you down 2-3 people with one barrage who are at 90% hp or around it each? Nope, you’re the cheapest Mr Barrage. (And yes I could avoid using it here, but if I don’t use nade kit and purposefully kitten my builds that is an issue that is also related to this bug.)

Would people stop defending it, so those of us who actually want to push Engineer to it’s limits, and or master new styles of play on it can actually do so without having to either refrain from using Grenades and limited our play. Or one shotting opponents and limiting theirs?

F.A.Q for people:

• With Grenadier, Grenade barrage is throwing 13 grenades, when it’s supposed to throw 7.

• Piercing is irrelevant to Grenade Barrage. Grenade Barrage hits are not piercing, even while traited.

• With Grenadier, normal #1-5 Grenades are piercing now, meaning if you are able to physically connect the Grenade projectile, and also connect the explosion (ie, aim right behind the target), each grenade can hit up to twice with a flawless throw.

• With the natural spread of grenades, you have to be point blank and aiming behind the target to double hit each grenades. Possibly game breaking in PvE, not practical to capitalize on in PvP.

• Grenade Barrage is also not benefiting from Toolbelt Cooldown Reduction.

Reduce grenades thrown from 13 to 7 when Grenadier is equipped, and then Grenadier will be playable. This should have been hotfixed yesterday..

Currently, piercing Grenades are not documented, or asked for, due to the applications to PvE / PvP, this should be re-evaluated on whether it should stay in the game or not.

You can’t understand how much skill you need to use Grenade Barrage properly!!

L2P!!!!!

:D

ronpierce.2760:

Laraley.7695:

ronpierce.2760:

Chaith.8256:

Grenadier is banned in in every organized PvP interaction, can this please be fixed so grenades can be usable

But Chaith, didn’t you hear the forum warriors? It’s not bugged, there’s nothing wrong with it! :P

Several people stated it is not a bug, but they do think the damage is too high. Stop putting words in other people’ mouths.

And a few people have said its fine and people need to l2p, stop trying to apply what I say to everyone just to pester me. Inter that you don’t like me because I pointed out Ele is likely getting Warhorn but grow up.

Eh, no. I just dont agree with your opinions and feel like some of your statements are just exaggarating to prove a point that’s not there. I have nothing against you and frankly, I don’t follow the logic why I wouldn’t like someone figuring out ele is getting a warhorn. That’s what ANet would decide. I just don’t like the way you present your opinions.

Chaith.8256:

F.A.Q for people:

• With Grenadier, Grenade barrage is throwing 13 grenades, when it’s supposed to throw 7.

• Piercing is irrelevant to Grenade Barrage. Grenade Barrage hits are not piercing, even while traited.

• With Grenadier, normal #1-5 Grenades are piercing now, meaning if you are able to physically connect the Grenade projectile, and also connect the explosion (ie, aim right behind the target), each grenade can hit up to twice with a flawless throw.

• With the natural spread of grenades, you have to be point blank and aiming behind the target to double hit each grenades. Possibly game breaking in PvE, not practical to capitalize on in PvP.

• Grenade Barrage is also not benefiting from Toolbelt Cooldown Reduction.

Reduce grenades thrown from 13 to 7 when Grenadier is equipped, and then Grenadier will be playable. This should have been hotfixed yesterday..

Currently, piercing Grenades are not documented, or asked for, due to the applications to PvE / PvP, this should be re-evaluated on whether it should stay in the game or not.

Thank you. Finally the facts, many including myself have said 13 grenades for pages upon pages now, but there is this collective of people asserting ‘it might intended’. Even when the tool tip on barrage says 7, and you can clearly count more than 7 circles on a throw, clearly when many have thrown it on an enemy and not behind them still doing more damage than reasonable.

The tool belt cooldown thing I didn’t know, but perhaps with a more well known name saying the same stuff many of us have for ages, these people might stop protecting this evident bug that is negatively effecting us on Engineer also. Those who actually care to play competitive anyway.

Laraley.7695:

ronpierce.2760:

Laraley.7695:

ronpierce.2760:

Chaith.8256:

Grenadier is banned in in every organized PvP interaction, can this please be fixed so grenades can be usable

But Chaith, didn’t you hear the forum warriors? It’s not bugged, there’s nothing wrong with it! :P

Several people stated it is not a bug, but they do think the damage is too high. Stop putting words in other people’ mouths.

And a few people have said its fine and people need to l2p, stop trying to apply what I say to everyone just to pester me. Inter that you don’t like me because I pointed out Ele is likely getting Warhorn but grow up.

Eh, no. I just dont agree with your opinions and feel like some of your statements are just exaggarating to prove a point that’s not there. I have nothing against you and frankly, I don’t follow the logic why I wouldn’t like someone figuring out ele is getting a warhorn. That’s what ANet would decide. I just don’t like the way you present your opinions.

The thing you quoted here wasn’t an opinion, just simply making a joke and poking fun at a very few select individuals who think how it is is fine, of which, I said no names lol.

All these discussions about grenade-barrage are in my opinion useless. I don’t think it is a bug but it seems to me an unwanted behaviour, anet did not expect a similar effect. In any case, if it is or not a bug , it is too strong without any doubt and i am quite sure Anet will correct it. What is the difference for the players if it is a bug, or if it is something they have not forecast ? I think nothing, they will adjust it and stop. There are many other points like mesmers, which are much more difficult to fix and in a long term view , more dangerouse than a single wrong trait

ronpierce.2760:

Laraley.7695:

ronpierce.2760:

Laraley.7695:

ronpierce.2760:

Chaith.8256:

Grenadier is banned in in every organized PvP interaction, can this please be fixed so grenades can be usable

But Chaith, didn’t you hear the forum warriors? It’s not bugged, there’s nothing wrong with it! :P

Several people stated it is not a bug, but they do think the damage is too high. Stop putting words in other people’ mouths.

And a few people have said its fine and people need to l2p, stop trying to apply what I say to everyone just to pester me. Inter that you don’t like me because I pointed out Ele is likely getting Warhorn but grow up.

Eh, no. I just dont agree with your opinions and feel like some of your statements are just exaggarating to prove a point that’s not there. I have nothing against you and frankly, I don’t follow the logic why I wouldn’t like someone figuring out ele is getting a warhorn. That’s what ANet would decide. I just don’t like the way you present your opinions.

The thing you quoted here wasn’t an opinion, just simply making a joke and poking fun at a very few select individuals who think how it is is fine, of which, I said no names lol.

That was a reference to something else. Anyways, this is off topic, so let just leave it here.

All I’m reading is that I should get drunk one night and make a 5 man engi group focused of nade barrage, just for laughs

PierPiero.9142:

I don’t think it is a bug but it seems to me an unwanted behaviour, anet did not expect a similar effect.

I respect that, but quite simply the Grenade Barrage when traited has the number of grenades thrown glitched, and it’s reading 13 when it should be reading as 7.

The other grenade attacks piercing could be called an unintended (or undocumented, but intended) behavior.

anet should be fixing this. it won’t matter tho, we can just take kinetic battery and barrage twice for the instagib. 100nades will live on.

Here I’ll explain again with some math to help ppl understand.

You throw 7 nades.
It pierces and hits.
Nades land and explode hits 7x again.

7 × 2 = 14. You have a potential to hit a single target 14x under the current piercing change.

People who say nades are throwing double and are not actually piercing are incorrect.

Damage on barrage needs to be corrected but after all other damage variables have been normalized or everything is going to be yo-yoing around.

Just to note, I’ve seen many bunkers easily surviving these new burst builds without dodging, aka actually eating the damage. After, they are still not close to death.

ShadowAce.5432:

Here I’ll explain again with some math to help ppl understand.

You throw 7 nades.
It pierces and hits.
Nades land and explode hits 7x again.

7 × 2 = 14. You have a potential to hit a single target 14x under the current piercing change.

People who say nades are throwing double and are not actually piercing are incorrect.

Damage on barrage needs to be corrected but after all other damage variables have been normalized or everything is going to be yo-yoing around.

You just don’t stop being wrong do you?

- Grenade Barage throws 13 grenades when treated, and mysteriously the tooltip goes from 6 grenades to 7 still (while in reality it physically throws 13, go throw barrage with and without it, you can see the kitten difference.)
- Only grenade 1-5 skills pierce, grenade barrage doesn’t even pierce, and only with the trait.
- Flash Grenade is the only skill that is affected by the pierce bug even when untraited.

ShadowAce.5432:

Just to note, I’ve seen many bunkers easily surviving these new burst builds without dodging, aka actually eating the damage. After, they are still not close to death.

I don’t think bunkers should be dying to one skill from an engi if they fail to dodge it once, this argument really doesn’t prove anything. Nothing with 3K armour should die to Grenade Barrage and the skill is definitely not okay despite the fact a bunker won’t get one shot by it.

ShadowAce.5432:

Here I’ll explain again with some math to help ppl understand.

You throw 7 nades.
It pierces and hits.
Nades land and explode hits 7x again.

7 × 2 = 14. You have a potential to hit a single target 14x under the current piercing change.

People who say nades are throwing double and are not actually piercing are incorrect.

Damage on barrage needs to be corrected but after all other damage variables have been normalized or everything is going to be yo-yoing around.

You should do a few more tests:

Throw a Grenade Barrage as far as you can with Grenadier traited, and count the grenades as they fly. There’s 13 by my count.

Throw a Grenade Barrage slightly in front of the target to ensure no piercing occurs. Try again, but aim for maximum piercing by throwing it behind the target.

The results are 13, 13, and 13. Grenade Barrage is throwing 13 Grenades by all reasonable tests, if seeing 13 Grenades flying through the air isn’t enough to convince you.

All the other nades are piercing, besides the Grenade Barrage, hitting between 3-6 times depending on how you position yourself and aim the grenades. When I’m casually tossing nades often I score 4 hits.

ronpierce.2760:

ShadowAce.5432:

Here I’ll explain

You just don’t stop being wrong do you?

- Grenade Barage throws 13 grenades when treated, and mysteriously the tooltip goes from 6 grenades to 7 still (while in reality it physically throws 13, go throw barrage with and without it, you can see the kitten difference.)
- Only grenade 1-5 skills pierce, grenade barrage doesn’t even pierce, and only with the trait.
- Flash Grenade is the only skill that is affected by the pierce bug even when untraited.

Ron is better at the internet then you.

I just had to play two games in a row against the same engi traited this way. In courtyard it is ludicrous. In 1v1 I did manage to avoid the insta kill 1-2 times, but eventually they’re going to get you down.

Done queuing for the night, incidentally.

I am currently learning how to play with engineer, and will make it my main. After the idiotic changes for my precious thief and too much game with my ele, I was looking for a fun/supportive/jack of all trades class with lots of capabilities.

But when I saw the grenade thingy, I thought " it cannot be that bad, people are overreacting." Then I joined pvp, and insta-killed a bloody player with just one petty skill.

This cannot be. This is why I quit playing thief. If every idiot can kill this easily with a build, then there is something wrong with it. These kind of bugs or op’ness hurts the quality of the profession, and destroys the achievements of good players. Thief is already destroyed; every monkey with four buttons can kill easily now. But it is not too late to save engineer, just fix this bomb thingy and search engineer forums for more info about what should be fixed.

why are people defending a 1/2 second cast skill that can be used every 25 seconds that is AOE and depletes all of the opponents health instantly?

Why are people defending it?

Chaith.8256:

• With Grenadier, normal #1-5 Grenades are piercing now, meaning if you are able to physically connect the Grenade projectile, and also connect the explosion (ie, aim right behind the target), each grenade can hit up to twice with a flawless throw.

This is not correct. Grenade 1-4 does not seem to be limited to a single in-flight impact explosion. They will explode on every target they encounter and the ground.

My personal best is 79 hits from a single 3 nade toss.

So has anyone else done the mine and we nades from stealth yet, heheheh

Laraley.7695:

I don’t really play engi, but what I understand from this thread is the fact you just use a trait to get that high damage. How is that an exploit?

The same way ANet banned people for using the karma exploit when game launched. Basically anything that looks to good to be true is an exploit and if ANet is consistent with their TOS people exploiting this should get a temporary ban.

I’m sure it must be a bug, fix please asap.

Is there an official statement that this skill doesn’t work as intended ? NO
Every class got some ridiculous boost, for engi is piercing with grenade barrage.
Every exploit in game should have official statement, that it is indeed an exploit, otherwise the only one who can be banned for using exploits are people that making that exploits = AN programmers. Learn from Eve programmers…

Style.1092:

Is there an official statement that this skill doesn’t work as intended ? NO
Every class got some ridiculous boost, for engi is piercing with grenade barrage.
Every exploit in game should have official statement, that it is indeed an exploit, otherwise the only one who can be banned for using exploits are people that making that exploits = AN programmers. Learn from Eve programmers…

lulz at all those engineers exploiters thinking this is working as intended… wake up! enjoy while it last.

I’m curious, can you run wall of reflection for the nadez?

Uh, I’m not sure if I’m particularly supposed to discuss it, but I can’t imagine how it would hurt so people don’t build around a broken build. I was talking to a Dev last night and he said “it was a global issue, fix one part and it fixes the whole thing.” Speaking about them having it fixed internally. Could be some slight miscommunication/understanding, but it seems that he was confirming that it currently isn’t working properly. Today is Tuesday, so I’d imagine some time today we will get a fix patch.

People don’t seem to comprehend my posts. They automatically assume I’m defending barrage damage which I have never done.

I’m saying there is a deeper problem than (knee jerk reaction) only grenade barrage the skill.

I also never said, “barrage damage is okay because bunks can absorbe it.”

I am pointing out Proper Bunker builds are being able to absorbe (what the community feels is insane damage) and not be low HP or able to heal back to 100% within 1-3 seconds, says something about bunkers at the moment too.

And ya I’ve been doing extensive testing with barrage, its piercing not double nading.

There are currently necro bunker builds that can condi bomb, dropping targets within 1-3 seconds.

They can also eat barrage and still be decent HP and heal back up. IDK if barrage is bugging you that much, roll a necro and just LOL as you roll everyone with condos.

ShadowAce.5432:

There are currently necro bunker builds that can condi bomb, dropping targets within 1-3 seconds.

They can also eat barrage and still be decent HP and heal back up. IDK if barrage is bugging you that much, roll a necro and just LOL as you roll everyone with condos.

Stop exploiting dude, it is not piercing, pierces after exploding not before!. The bug refers to how many grenades can you throw, 14 nades instead or 7.

Also, IDK if its my bracket but I rarely see made engines in my tPVP matches and usually they are bad when they are.
Most of the time its the crazy sustain and or bunker builds which have respectable DMG output too.

So I had a recent interview with Grenade Barrage, and he had this to say:

ShadowAce.5432:

Also, IDK if its my bracket but I rarely see made engines in my tPVP matches and usually they are bad when they are.
Most of the time its the crazy sustain and or bunker builds which have respectable DMG output too.

Doesn’t change the fact the skill is bugged… even if there are some builds that can survive it and even beat it.

Chaith.8256:

Grenadier is banned in in every organized PvP interaction, can this please be fixed so grenades can be usable

they should let you keep the kitten bug cuz engies are useless right now.