Guild Wars 2

Holy wow.

Guard LB3
So, traited, the LB can knock back all them enemies he hits. The skill is also ground targeted which is super cool and has a range like a mfker. It also casuses blind and eats up any projectiles on the way increasing damage when doing so. It also has a 10 second cooldown XD It’s also unblockable. Actually unblockable.

Now lets move to that Necro GS5. My god. I had no idea. Like i know the GS is bad. Sure. But I had NO IDEA how bad. Like its nothing. NOTHING compared to DH elite weapon.

Necro GS5
First off, 30 second cooldown lol. Is not unblockable, has a short range, applies only chill and a knockdown. Wow. Holy wow.

Now, you’ll probably say “l2p issue. Durpdedurp.” or “Different weapons/class are different.”

The only real argument that can be made is that there is a balance among the weapons that sorta go from the low recharge/weaker skills to higher recharge/stronger skills.

But this is the thing: THE DH weaker skill is STRONGER than the DH "strong"high recharge skill. By alot. By a real lot. The skills are not even in the same ballpark. one is just better all around. There’s no argument. There’s nothing you can say to defend this. Its just imbalance. One is just better. Done.

Anyways. Oh, and for some reason GS5 still cant get ground targeting. Just nah. Dont want to waste time on adding some nice tech to necromancers like they do other classes XD

BTW: I am playing DH now. Its… it’s unreal.

Compare your necro gs to guardian hammer. Nothing beats the hammer casting speed and cd times.

why don’t you play FPS games?

No seriously, comparing cross class is one of the worst idea in MMORPG…

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

why don’t you play FPS games?

No seriously, comparing cross class is one of the worst idea in MMORPG…

Right so if i had a profession that with one skill killed every enemy on the map and it was unblockable and you couldn’t avoid it at all and it won me the game instantly.. that would be okay right? Cuz why not? Oh because you’re class can’t do that? Well stop comparing. XD

We both know exaggeration won’t help with your argument, it only makes your statement look like an emotional regurgitation.

Neither does comparing cross class, if you find that necro skill underpower, then state improvement. If you find LB3 OP, then state it truthfully what part is OP rather than “one skill that killed every enemy on map and unblockable and can’t avoid”.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

We both know exaggeration won’t help with your argument, it only makes your statement look like an emotional regurgitation.

Neither does comparing cross class, if you find that necro skill underpower, then state improvement. If you find LB3 OP, then state it truthfully what part is OP rather than “one skill that killed every enemy on map and unblockable and can’t avoid”.

How do you define balance since I feel like i just fell into an alternate universe where some things don’t mean the same things they should.

Define the word balance. If you’re not comparing what is your method of balance? So far, my exaggerated example perfectly conveys your side of the argument. If you’re not comparing or examining the whole, how are you balancing. How do you (i dont think im going to be able to say this in many more ways) balance something without another thing as a counterweight. How do you think balancing works?

Thus far, your idea of balance is looking only at one thing, determining its strengths with zero consideration of anything around it.

Here’s a better example. When you take an IQ test…. why do you think there are grades. Why do you think that when you are placed above 200 IQ, you are considered really smart? I’ll tell you why: its because they are comparing you to everyone else who’s taking an IQ test. You cant walk up to a baby, test their IQ, never test anyone else in the world and then send that baby into the field of science because you think they are smart enough. The only reason you might think they’re smart enough, is because you have no clue how smart anyone else is because you have no basis for comparison.

Again, you’re looking it like its an FPS. Balance is never about putting two objects on a scale or a set numeric IQ test in MMORPG, where you say one skill is superior than other because its heavier.

You need to considers every single aspects of characters, from simple base stats difference and synergy between skills, to more sophisticated things like class mechanics and roles in a teamfight. What you do is comparing apples with oranges and say orange is absolutely better because it has more vitamin C. Your example only serves this by dumbing the dynamic aspects of balance down to narrow minded Yes/No questions. Comparing two skills from different class only stops you from looking at the bigger picture, because the very nature of MMORPG focuses on class differences and how classes can compensate each other’s weakness and strength.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Again, you’re looking it like its an FPS. Balance is never about putting two objects on a scale or a set numeric IQ test in MMORPG, where you say one skill is superior than other because its heavier.

You need to considers every single aspects of characters, from simple base stats difference and synergy between skills, to more sophisticated things like class mechanics and roles in a teamfight. What you do is comparing apples with oranges and say orange is absolutely better because it has more vitamin C. Your example only serves this by dumbing the dynamic aspects of balance down to narrow minded Yes/No questions. Comparing two skills from different class only stops you from looking at the bigger picture, because the very nature of MMORPG focuses on class differences and how classes can compensate each other’s weakness and strength.

Then you’re just assuming I haven’t taken into consideration the usage / stats / mechanics / roles / etc. By the way, you are openly admitting that you have to balance by looking at the other classes. There is no way of getting around that.

Everything about that skill on that weapon on that class is better in every way than the usage and strength of the GS skill on that class. It would actually take way too long to try to explain in every detail, which not even the devs can do, how it is better.

Can’t blame OP. LB3 is the most favorite skill in the entire guard skill set. After that it’s shield 5 and sword 2.

If you can’t explain every detail then unfortunately you can’t give a balance idea. That’s the very reason why comparing two skills cross class is a terrible idea.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

If you can’t explain every detail then unfortunately you can’t give a balance idea. That’s the very reason why comparing two skills cross class is a terrible idea.

Not even the devs can explain in every detail. So there goes your logic again. You can only determine the best you can by viewing the entirely of the power budget. If for some reason you can’t see how much better that skill is than it’s your lack of understanding, not mine.

TheDevice.2751:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

We both know exaggeration won’t help with your argument, it only makes your statement look like an emotional regurgitation.

Neither does comparing cross class, if you find that necro skill underpower, then state improvement. If you find LB3 OP, then state it truthfully what part is OP rather than “one skill that killed every enemy on map and unblockable and can’t avoid”.

Define the word balance. If you’re not comparing what is your method of balance? If you’re not comparing or examining the whole, how are you balancing. How do you balance something without another thing as a counterweight.

You’re really not taking your own advice here. You’re comparing only two classes when there’s 7 other classes to take into account.

To make your argument worse you’re even comparing their weaponry which are completely different. You express these two very wrong points in a way that makes this thread laughable, instead of what could have been a reasonable post.

Saiyan.1704:

TheDevice.2751:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

We both know exaggeration won’t help with your argument, it only makes your statement look like an emotional regurgitation.

Neither does comparing cross class, if you find that necro skill underpower, then state improvement. If you find LB3 OP, then state it truthfully what part is OP rather than “one skill that killed every enemy on map and unblockable and can’t avoid”.

Define the word balance. If you’re not comparing what is your method of balance? If you’re not comparing or examining the whole, how are you balancing. How do you balance something without another thing as a counterweight.

You’re really not taking your own advice here. You’re comparing only two classes when there’s 7 other classes to take into account.

To make your argument worse you’re even comparing their weaponry which are completely different. You express these two very wrong points in a way that makes this thread laughable, instead of what could have been a reasonable post.

Then nobody can make the claim a class is underpowered or overpwered. Claiming something is underpowered is claiming it is inferior to something else, yet people do it all the time.

So when guards were underpowered.. they actually weren’t. So if they get nerfed, all is fine. My point is the obvious state of your complaints with my comparison. It’s a back-to-the-wall end-all argument that can only be used when there is nothing to actually defend with.

Your statement can be used FOR EVERY SINGLE COMPLAINT OF IMBALANCE EVER. So right now, elementalists are fine. Guardian Hammer is fine. If Guards get nerfed, they are FINE. If all their damage, all their blocks get nerfed, they are fine cuz… balance. Why complain about lack of blocks? Lack of health? Lack of anything when there is an entire game with all its date and intricacies to counter with. How do you know Guards were underpowered at any time ever in this game? Maybe you were just bad. Maybe all guards were just bad. Maybe elementalists are perfectly okay right now. Maybe they’re too strong for all we know. Nobody seems to be able to list every single ability in a 300 page data filled report as to how it is underpowered.

Where was their 300 page reasoning explaining every single intricacy of balance that lead to their decision? Hippocrates. I think I’m one of the least laughable ones here.

This comparison makes total sense. A ranged weapon skill that pushes back people requiring a trait and having to aim the skill as well, compared to a melee weapon with a cone pull, that’s designed to bring people into melee range. Lets not forget that LB3 can only hit targets on the same path elevation, while GS5 for necro can pull people off from higher elevation. I have a hinting suspicion the OP is trying to disguise this thread as something that it really isn’t. Based on the edit.

Lucentfir.7430:

This comparison makes total sense. A ranged weapon skill that pushes back people requiring a trait and having to aim the skill as well, compared to a melee weapon with a cone pull, that’s designed to bring people into melee range. Lets not forget that LB3 can only hit targets on the same path elevation, while GS5 for necro can pull people off from higher elevation. I have a hinting suspicion the OP is trying to disguise this thread as something that it really isn’t. Based on the edit.

Here comes another guardian…

Do you even play guardian? LB3 can actually change elevation during its course.

Yeah, one is ranged and the other is melee. So what? Whats your actual point there though. Finish the thought.

Guard LB3 Multi-hit unblockable attack that can change elevation and CC multiple enemies while destroying incoming projectiles and blinding everone it hits and has a 10 second cooldown. Now think of all the other skills used by a guardian, all the other skills on the LB etc.

Necro GS5 Multi-hit blockable attack that can change elevation and CC multiple enemies while chilling them. Has a 30 second cooldown. (also gets really buggy when determining the FREAKING PATHING (lol) when using action camera. Why does the Gaurds LB3 get to have the freedom of ground targeting. Why not also make it work the same way as GS5?)

So yeah, I still think its obviously bs.

BTW: you’re talking about CC’ing multiple enemies every 10 seconds which is UNBLOCKABLE. I mean whatever I’m loving it right now playing DH lol. But please, continue your defense. Not like you and the other guards weren’t complaining about them being underpowered a while ago.

How did you know guards were underpowered, if I may ask? You did think they were underpowered right? I’d like to hear your explanation.

And, I edit because I have a tendency to want to add something or find that I mispelled a word. Not really sure what you were trying to suggest in that comment.

TheDevice.2751:

Saiyan.1704:

TheDevice.2751:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

We both know exaggeration won’t help with your argument, it only makes your statement look like an emotional regurgitation.

Neither does comparing cross class, if you find that necro skill underpower, then state improvement. If you find LB3 OP, then state it truthfully what part is OP rather than “one skill that killed every enemy on map and unblockable and can’t avoid”.

Define the word balance. If you’re not comparing what is your method of balance? If you’re not comparing or examining the whole, how are you balancing. How do you balance something without another thing as a counterweight.

You’re really not taking your own advice here. You’re comparing only two classes when there’s 7 other classes to take into account.

To make your argument worse you’re even comparing their weaponry which are completely different. You express these two very wrong points in a way that makes this thread laughable, instead of what could have been a reasonable post.

Then nobody can make the claim a class is underpowered or overpwered. Claiming something is underpowered is claiming it is inferior to something else, yet people do it all the time.

So when guards were underpowered.. they actually weren’t. So if th.. -
-snip-

You’re doing a poor troll job on turning people’s words around… you’re just babbling semantics here and it’s not amusing.

When there’s complaints about a class being under or overpowered, it’s usually backed up by more than one reference.

Saiyan.1704:

TheDevice.2751:

Saiyan.1704:

TheDevice.2751:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

We both know exaggeration won’t help with your argument, it only makes your statement look like an emotional regurgitation.

Neither does comparing cross class, if you find that necro skill underpower, then state improvement. If you find LB3 OP, then state it truthfully what part is OP rather than “one skill that killed every enemy on map and unblockable and can’t avoid”.

Define the word balance. If you’re not comparing what is your method of balance? If you’re not comparing or examining the whole, how are you balancing. How do you balance something without another thing as a counterweight.

You’re really not taking your own advice here. You’re comparing only two classes when there’s 7 other classes to take into account.

To make your argument worse you’re even comparing their weaponry which are completely different. You express these two very wrong points in a way that makes this thread laughable, instead of what could have been a reasonable post.

Then nobody can make the claim a class is underpowered or overpwered. Claiming something is underpowered is claiming it is inferior to something else, yet people do it all the time.

So when guards were underpowered.. they actually weren’t. So if th.. -
-snip-

You’re doing a poor troll job on turning people’s words around… you’re just babbling semantics here and it’s not amusing.

When there’s complaints about a class being under or overpowered, it’s usually backed up by more than one reference.

How am I turning your words around? Explain yourself please.

So, where were these “references”? Where they just other people claiming something is underpowered (probably guards), and if so, doesn’t that make guardians overpowered now? …..since there are so many people (except for guards) saying it is?

Or is there actual data? Actual in-depth reasoning. The sort of reasoning you just expected from me. Wheres all that at? Keep in mind; none of the reasoning can be a point of comparison. So if somebody said “guards are too weak this month cuz our [insert mechanic] isn’t good enough.” This is not adequate since it is inherently comparative. So where’s the plethora of reasoning?

Again, just to be sure you understand; it cant involve anyone saying that they don’t do enough damage or are dying too fast. Because thats comparative.

TheDevice.2751:

Lucentfir.7430:

This comparison makes total sense. A ranged weapon skill that pushes back people requiring a trait and having to aim the skill as well, compared to a melee weapon with a cone pull, that’s designed to bring people into melee range. Lets not forget that LB3 can only hit targets on the same path elevation, while GS5 for necro can pull people off from higher elevation. I have a hinting suspicion the OP is trying to disguise this thread as something that it really isn’t. Based on the edit.

Here comes another guardian…

Do you even play guardian? LB3 can actually change elevation during its course.

Yeah, one is ranged and the other is melee. So what? Whats your actual point there though. Finish the thought.

Guard LB3 Multi-hit unblockable attack that can change elevation and CC multiple enemies while destroying incoming projectiles and blinding everone it hits and has a 10 second cooldown. Now think of all the other skills used by a guardian, all the other skills on the LB etc.

Necro GS5 Multi-hit blockable attack that can change elevation and CC multiple enemies while chilling them. Has a 30 second cooldown. (also gets really buggy when determining the FREAKING PATHING (lol) when using action camera. Why does the Gaurds LB3 get to have the freedom of ground targeting. Why not also make it work the same way as GS5?)

So yeah, I still think its obviously bs.

BTW: you’re talking about CC’ing multiple enemies every 10 seconds which is UNBLOCKABLE. I mean whatever I’m loving it right now playing DH lol. But please, continue your defense. Not like you and the other guards weren’t complaining about them being underpowered a while ago.

How did you know guards were underpowered, if I may ask? You did think they were underpowered right? I’d like to hear your explanation.

And, I edit because I have a tendency to want to add something or find that I mispelled a word. Not really sure what you were trying to suggest in that comment.

I am a guardian main true, but I dive into other classes as well, I have perspective. You’re obviously not getting what I’m saying. Go ahead and use Deflecting Shot on someone standing on higher elevation, like in Khylo, because obviously it will move up the wall like you seem to say it does. The only time it will actually move over any wall is if you can jump over that wall yourself, if terrain pathing allows it.

Your discussion is based on 2 entirely different playstyles and and weapon function. A better comparison would be if you were comparing Ranger’s Point Blank Shot with DH’s Deflecting shot if you’re trying to compare things.

How I know guard’s were underperforming? Self explanatory. Anyone who played in S1-S3 would know of all the things present around those times. Cleric Babysitter Ele, Merc amulet for condi classes meaning Reaper and Condi chrono galore stat survivablity and damage, Longbow 5 changed, True Shot nerfed. Not to mention there was no synergy between traits and one handed weapons(Sword/Scepter) at that time.

I mistaken your BTW as a edit, but it’s still a hint of what you’re really trying to say.

I think the main issue with the GS5 skill is how clunky it is. If you could just throw it out in a 360° radius and manualy aim it like the Guardian shot it would be a much better skill.

I mean all the balance aside the necro skill is hardly functional as it is but i also know that it has already gone through some iterations so maybe it can’t be made to work more smoothly from a technical standpoint.

Yes, but Gs#5 uses new new fancy tech and looks good.

Imagine how many workhours went into reinventing the wheel of an actually working pull skill.

guard gs#5 , boring since it works since launch
necro spectral pull – too slow non-homing projectile
guard DH pull – unavoidablefast 99.8% reliable projectile
necro GS … how about 3x projectiles which all miss??

This is Apple level of stupidity, they literally want a slow and clunky designed class.

The problem with necro traits and GS since HoT is that they were kinda designed in synergy with the Reaper Grandmaster trait that makes Chill do damage. Although short sighted Anet just nerfed the Chill damage trait (Sorry, forgot its name) but didnt alter the rest.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

why don’t you play FPS games?

No seriously, comparing cross class is one of the worst idea in MMORPG…

you are the biggest troll who didnt get called out for it ive seen so far.

You know I can’t find more useless pvp weapon then tempest warhorn…I never seen necro die by having gs in his build…on other hand ele will mostly stay dead without focus…

TheDevice.2751:

Then nobody can make the claim a class is underpowered or overpwered. Claiming something is underpowered is claiming it is inferior to something else, yet people do it all the time.

So when guards were underpowered.. they actually weren’t. So if they get nerfed, all is fine. My point is the obvious state of your complaints with my comparison. It’s a back-to-the-wall end-all argument that can only be used when there is nothing to actually defend with.

Your statement can be used FOR EVERY SINGLE COMPLAINT OF IMBALANCE EVER. So right now, elementalists are fine. Guardian Hammer is fine. If Guards get nerfed, they are FINE. If all their damage, all their blocks get nerfed, they are fine cuz… balance. Why complain about lack of blocks? Lack of health? Lack of anything when there is an entire game with all its date and intricacies to counter with. How do you know Guards were underpowered at any time ever in this game? Maybe you were just bad. Maybe all guards were just bad. Maybe elementalists are perfectly okay right now. Maybe they’re too strong for all we know. Nobody seems to be able to list every single ability in a 300 page data filled report as to how it is underpowered.

Where was their 300 page reasoning explaining every single intricacy of balance that lead to their decision? Hippocrates. I think I’m one of the least laughable ones here.

Dude I think you need to change your weapon. Why does noone plays competitive Reaper with gs? Figure it out, don’t blame DH for it.

Why does nobody play with gs/hammer as DH? Cause it is bad.

I dont like Hammer skills of guardian, oh god what would I give for Hammer skills from Scrapper and especially CC Hammer skills of warrior, or Hammer skills from Revenant.

Compare your GS skill 5 with Guardian GS skill 5, OMG you have a condition NERF NERF NERF !!!!

LoL

did he also mention how dh longbow attacks can hit players from lik… 1200 range? i’m pretty shore that the reaper gs doesn’t get anywhere close to that. where is the balance?

bros, i don’t think adding a longer pull on gs is gonna make it any more viable or fix necro sustain issues. you should instead ask for sustain capabilities to be added to gs.