Guild Wars 2

Hey

After the recent popularity of Guardians in high tier matches paired with my own experience in game, I’ve started to question their power and utility. To me it feels like Guardians are an extension to Warriors. You’d think that a Guardian is supposed to be the more durable and support oriented profession, while Warriors are geared towards damage. Both being heavily armored, you could assume that they’re supposed to be a bit less mobile than other professions.

I know things don’t have to be this way, but Warriors are support oriented with banners and shouts. Their mobility is decent. Damage is good. Their CC is good. Survivability is great.

Then we got the Guardian. Their supportive functions are at least on par with Warriors I’d say, what do you think? Then they got a 1200 range blink for some reason making their mobility good/great. Damage is great. CC is great. Survivability is godlike.

I know that Warriors are also very welcome in a team but I don’t think there’s any doubt that the general opinion is that Guardians are better?

Considering my description of how you’d think a Guardian works, what would you say if I told you they can teleport to you from 1200 units away. Cast one spell and then have inflicted enough burning to kill you in two seconds without even the need of attacking anymore. 9000-something burning damage caused instantly and dealt quickly. Was close to 10 000. Again, I get that things don’t “have to” be a certain way, but come on, do we really need to abuse that statement this hard?

I’m by no means a great PvP player, so I could be totally wrong. In fact, I’d probably be told so regardless by those holding on to their crutches. However, I believe some will have genuine counter arguments, which I look forward to.

There must be something about Guardians though, since they are currently the most popular along with Thieves. That’s undeniable and I think it’s a tad unfair.

TL/DR: Guardians are the most durable, with higher damage than Warriors and mobility of lighter professions. Could be called the Swiss army knife of GW2.

Just because there are a lot of them doesn’t mean there should be. I’m unimpressed with 95% of the medi guards I see running around and feel my altruistic healing bunker is more valuable then 95% of them as well especially when solo queueing. This is a case imo of one group doing very well in the A-net money tounament with a player playing this particular build and everyone thinking that means on average a Medi guard can compete with something like an elementalist on even footing or that most players are as good as this player which they are not imo. Really there is no compelling reason to run any type of guardian sadly at the moment. Sure you might be able to win doing it if the players/group are special enough but that doesn’t validate it. Everything should be balanced around average players and the most common scenarios and the fact of the matter is in those situations there are better options then Bunker Guardian or Medi Guardian.

Guardian isn’t that great, but it’s relatively easy to play and can stomp below average players fast.

Against a clever player, the guardian can be made to look very clumsy, and his rotation of cooldowns will run out fast if he’s focused by more than 1 player. At that point he’s just a guy with 14k hp pool and 2350 armor, so nothing too difficult to kill.

OP must be from EU. Correct me if I am wrong on that. There is an infestation of Guardians after WTS. Most of them suck for obvious reasons (New to the class), but there is definitely still more warriors on NA than Guardians. If you need deeps, Guardian isn’t bad depending on your comp. If you don’t want deeps, Warrior is a better option. All depends on what the rest of your comp is; but EU does have a new massive infestation of hammer medi guards. It’s ridiculous.

There’s been an influx of guardians on NA. In tournies and in queues.

Well, I have seen a little extra in Q’s on NA, all the ones in the tourneys always have run guardians. Not always on the same team as we saw a double guard comp, but…. If you think the NA has gone up, don’t go to EU. Every Q has a minimum of 3 guardians, usually 4. It is just bad. Guardian roach community has taken over turret engi’s there.

Once again, the meta is about what is face-roll AND effective. Guardian has been meta for 3 years because they are easy to play and effective. The reason why Guard is easy and effective is because they can spam instant cast defense while using instant cast attacks on top of ridiculous ratios on their damage skills.

Ironically Warrior is a more face-roll healer while Guardian is a more face-roll DPS. DPS Warrior compared to DPS guard is a whole different story. Warrior, with the highest skill cap DPS build (Mace+Shield Axe+Mace) can chain stun people for 5-8 seconds average while dps’ing as a 100-0 combo but that takes way more skill and effort than anything Guardian does to be honest. I would say play Warrior if you want a challenge and learn good habits which you can transfer to other classes.

But just play easy and effective things really, that’s what this game is about to be honest.

Sources on high skill cap Warrior:
http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6259903
http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6269321

Schneider.8615:

Hey

9000-something burning damage caused instantly and dealt quickly. Was close to 10 000.

BlackTruth.6813:

Once again, the meta is about what is face-roll AND effective. Guardian has been meta for 3 years because they are easy to play and effective. The reason why Guard is easy and effective is because they can spam instant cast defense while using instant cast attacks on top of ridiculous ratios on their damage skills.

Ironically Warrior is a more face-roll healer while Guardian is a more face-roll DPS. DPS Warrior compared to DPS guard is a whole different story. Warrior, with the highest skill cap DPS build (Mace+Shield Axe+Mace) can chain stun people for 5-8 seconds average while dps’ing as a 100-0 combo but that takes way more skill and effort than anything Guardian does to be honest. I would say play Warrior if you want a challenge and learn good habits which you can transfer to other classes.

But just play easy and effective things really, that’s what this game is about to be honest.

Sources on high skill cap Warrior:
http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6259903
http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6269321

I don’t like making personal attacks, but players who aren’t Warriors should know that recent Mr. Truth here has managed to get an even worse reputation than I have. His “high skill” builds are generally seen as being inferior to say, any viable teef build or a medi guard. His builds are all damage with low sustain and almost no team support.

I’ve given up debating him on this because he always falls on personal insults or “I never see YOU in tournies” (I work too much and have unreliable internet). I just don’t want his views giving non-warriors the impression that we share this opinion. Warriors are best as support with decent damage if you properly stack might and can land your Final Thrust.

We can’t teleport like teefs, we can’t hit as hard as MediGuard without sacrificing a ton of sustain that the guard doesn’t have to give up. Cele Rifle Engi can bring more useful CC in the form of pushes and pulls in addition to good damage and condi pressure. Cele D/D Ele is very similar to Shoutbow in that it’s based around stacking might for damage while bringing good team support as well.

It is pretty funny that Warriors and Guards have basically swapped roles. We used to be DPS/CC and now we’re the support class and Guard is the DPS.

Over last months there’s been influx of both Medi Guards and Power Rangers, but it’s more visible in first case, spiking to multiple guardians in lower rated games.

Reasons?

1. Most already have at least 1 guardian. It’s been go-to universal deus ex machina for every game mode since day 1. So people are familiar with greatsword etc.
2. Medi Guard is rather straight-foward and easy to play in hotjoins and lower ratings.
3. Medi Guard does high damage naturally, even with autoattacking/retaliation.
4. It’s hard target to shut down quickly for thieves.
5. It has something for most situations.

Tl;dr – Good Medi Guard will shine, but average or bad one is still doing okay with little investment.

Rym.1469:

Over last months there’s been influx of both Medi Guards and Power Rangers, but it’s more visible in first case, spiking to multiple guardians in lower rated games.

Reasons?

1. Most already have at least 1 guardian. It’s been go-to universal deus ex machina for every game mode since day 1. So people are familiar with greatsword etc.
2. Medi Guard is rather straight-foward and easy to play in hotjoins and lower ratings.
3. Medi Guard does high damage naturally, even with autoattacking/retaliation.
4. It’s hard target to shut down quickly for thieves.
5. It has something for most situations.

Tl;dr – Good Medi Guard will shine, but average or bad one is still doing okay with little investment.

I see no problem with guardian being where it’s at in the meta, they have a variety of builds that allow players to play certain role, and dont feel like they are OP to any extend (like Mesmer vs Thief, for example). I wish Mesmer have more viable build and be part of the meta…

I don’t think so… Warrior can stack up to 20+ might and that is a ton of dps. If you are talking about burst than sure, medi guard can do a lot of burst with gs 2, but so does warrior with hundred blades and i believe 100b can do much more after you stack up those might.

I think people are just stuck with these " must have longbow " mind set. I played a lot of ranked matches with berserker warrior without longbow and did just fine and even won those matches, but of course there will be people that disagree. Thieves can teleport but GS warrior also have high mobility. There is so much more to warrior than your typical longbow.

I recommend you to theory craft your build more and play test it. Try up more combos. The amount of negativity toward warrior in spvp is so bad in the warrior forums.. Hell i could post a video of me winning a 2 v 1 fight in spvp with gs/axeshield set and warrior forum people will still consider that lucky or the other players are newbs.

In dueling arena and spvp i still see some people running berserker warrior without longbow and win ranked matches.

TheGreatA.4192:

Guardian isn’t that great, but it’s relatively easy to play and can stomp below average players fast.

Against a clever player, the guardian can be made to look very clumsy, and his rotation of cooldowns will run out fast if he’s focused by more than 1 player. At that point he’s just a guy with 14k hp pool and 2350 armor, so nothing too difficult to kill.

This ^ more or less.

Also while the guardian does have judges intervention it’s not just a blink, its part of the self healing tool kit & a stun breaker on a 45 second cool down (36 if traited)

If you can bait the use of it by kiting then the guardian has less self healing & less stun breaks for the next 36+ seconds.

Combine this with the lack of spammable cripples/chills and the guardian becomes pretty easy to kite if your decent. Which forces them to waste their time following you around or switch to scepter which misses a good deal of it’s auto attacks if your beyond 600 range & moving around.

BurrTheKing.8571:

BlackTruth.6813:

Once again, the meta is about what is face-roll AND effective. Guardian has been meta for 3 years because they are easy to play and effective. The reason why Guard is easy and effective is because they can spam instant cast defense while using instant cast attacks on top of ridiculous ratios on their damage skills.

Ironically Warrior is a more face-roll healer while Guardian is a more face-roll DPS. DPS Warrior compared to DPS guard is a whole different story. Warrior, with the highest skill cap DPS build (Mace+Shield Axe+Mace) can chain stun people for 5-8 seconds average while dps’ing as a 100-0 combo but that takes way more skill and effort than anything Guardian does to be honest. I would say play Warrior if you want a challenge and learn good habits which you can transfer to other classes.

But just play easy and effective things really, that’s what this game is about to be honest.

Sources on high skill cap Warrior:
http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6259903
http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6269321

I don’t like making personal attacks, but players who aren’t Warriors should know that recent Mr. Truth here has managed to get an even worse reputation than I have. His “high skill” builds are generally seen as being inferior to say, any viable teef build or a medi guard. His builds are all damage with low sustain and almost no team support.

I’ve given up debating him on this because he always falls on personal insults or “I never see YOU in tournies” (I work too much and have unreliable internet). I just don’t want his views giving non-warriors the impression that we share this opinion. Warriors are best as support with decent damage if you properly stack might and can land your Final Thrust.

We can’t teleport like teefs, we can’t hit as hard as MediGuard without sacrificing a ton of sustain that the guard doesn’t have to give up. Cele Rifle Engi can bring more useful CC in the form of pushes and pulls in addition to good damage and condi pressure. Cele D/D Ele is very similar to Shoutbow in that it’s based around stacking might for damage while bringing good team support as well.

It is pretty funny that Warriors and Guards have basically swapped roles. We used to be DPS/CC and now we’re the support class and Guard is the DPS.

Zerk hambow certainly can hit as hard as mediguard, and has more sustain than mediguard on top of it. DPS warrior can have as much sustain if not more than mediguards as well. Black’s builds are more unorthodox and Yolo-y. It also seems like you are making a logical error by comparing roles of warriors to thieves.

Out of the bruiser builds, shoutbow is the worst.

1) There is a better point holder.
2) There is a better on point fighter that wouldn’t necessarily classify as a true point holder.
3) Shoutbow + slick shoes or cc = lolgg
4) A lot of damage that can be avoided.

The value of shoutbow is banner + condi removal and heals. But there’s no reason a team needs either of those things if something else can clean up fighters at higher speeds. You still hafta win fights if banner is on CD anyways. Banner is nice but not the end all be all form of team utility.

Have 2k hours on the warrior before I found the playstyle not complex enough for me and moved back to my first class. I do play my warrior in queues on occasions because I find it fun in short doses.

BurrTheKing.8571:

..

And if someone wants a good laugh

BlackTruth.6813:

Because playing as a DPS takes actual skill. Not like Power Necro, Ranger or Guardian with their infinite evades and instant cast offense and defense.

Also so good at baiting dodges and stun breaks in PvP. Literally everything you do people are inclined to dodge or burn a defensive cool down if you DO make in range.

Rebember guys, kitten necros evade like no tomorrow. Nerf that op junk.

sorry, are you discussing if guard is a better bruiser? really?

guards of any kind are greatly inferior in this role to a well played celestial (warrior/ele/engi).

If you want a 70%+ win ratio in solo q, start thinking versatile builds that can rotate in and out of nodes, tanking 2 ‘average’ players at a time.

celestial sustain builds are the only ones able to achieve this effectively.

If you’re talking about a dps roamer, then sure medi guard is great in this role. Realistically you’ll need a thief or necro in the comp to help clean up eles, but aside from that a good choice. Nobody runs warrior in this role though so not sure what the deal is with this thread….

essentially what guards can do is provide pressure while being pressured. No other zerk class can achieve this except thief,…

It seems like you guys have just played this game for 2 weeks. There has always been a very high population of guardians in the game. Always will be. But after maining guard for 2+ years I think the opposite, warrior is the new guardian.
The meta doesn’t need a guardian that can offer a small amount of support while engis, eles and rangers can blast water on the spot. Warriors do more damage, their traits scale better, and have more efficient builds for the team. Sure guardians have mobility due to teleports, which in turn gives them the ability to burst unexpectedly. Warriors offer everything a guard could except virtues. This is my opinion.

Panites.6798:

It seems like you guys have just played this game for 2 weeks. There has always been a very high population of guardians in the game. Always will be. But after maining guard for 2+ years I think the opposite, warrior is the new guardian.
The meta doesn’t need a guardian that can offer a small amount of support while engis, eles and rangers can blast water on the spot. Warriors do more damage, their traits scale better, and have more efficient builds for the team. Sure guardians have mobility due to teleports, which in turn gives them the ability to burst unexpectedly. Warriors offer everything a guard could except virtues. This is my opinion.

Guards, not mediguards though.

Most durable? As soon as they lose their blocks they are squishy as hell

http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6452625

Let’s just say at least Warrior can kinda 1v1 stuff like Turret Engi (even a mediocre one is fine) if you’re good at it. But you have to reach a high skill level before you can do this to be honest.

Let’s also say that Warrior is one of the most dangerous classes in the game the moment you have no more stun breaks.

Nah Guardians are still way different from Warrior. Our medi build is probably the most similar thing and its a lot slipperier than warriors utilities are. Medi build is also currently abit op, but it doesn’t have a real role in the current pvp meta (otherwise we’d be EVERYWHERE). also don’t listen to these people, medi guard is terrifying. Its just lucky that almost nobody knows how to play it right :P

Guardian is actually the most balanced profession in the game if you look all the way at launch. While all of the other professions have either received big nerfs or buffs guardian always seem to maintain it’s status. The problem isn’t meditation guardian, they don’t have to rely on the kittened celestial amulet, so no in between like the other broken professions. The problem here is warrior needs a big rework on it’s mechanics that’s all.

imo guardian isn’t good in 1v1 especially the meta build hammer/scepter focus medi guard. So in comparison I think both of these profession are not comparable.

We are in a meta where Warriors are support and Guardians are DPS! Who would’ve thought!!!?

…

BUFF DPS Warrs plz. =P