Guild Wars 2

I have to give A-net a lot of credit they made a bunch of changes to guardian and moved the ball forward a yard for them when it came to spvp viability. That kind of ineptitude is hard to find. If someone thinks Im wrong I’d like to see the builds I missing with these changes that are significantly better then what I could make a few days ago.

Our great build from Metabattle DH Bunker got HIT hard with Cleric removal.

There were a lot of improvements made. Give it time, the top guardians will no doubt come up with some good new builds.

I understand the changes were just rolled out yesterday but with the removal of the cleric amulet just looking at the changes they don’t seem too tied together at all. They are just fixes to certain things that you can’t really incorporate into an effective spvp build. Take the change to Sanctuary. It would have been awesome when Bunker Guardians were an actual meta thing. Sword and Scepter changes? More symbols? Hopefully Im wrong I admit I’ve never been a very good theory crafter. I’ll be keeping my eye out for builds to try. Just fooling around briefly last night wasn’t too thrilled. Just with the bulk of changes made I was hoping for something to be readily apparent.

Bunker guard was never good tbh, so removing clerics isnt really a nerf. It may actually help medi DH to have a better time, excluding related buffs.

AFK jackholes in the upper tiers aside, I had a blast soloing to Legend division as a Guardian. I didn’t use meta battle, but I developed my own “bunker” type build that required clerics and cruised to a glorious enjoyable & successful season. I loved the experience so much that I have used this off-season to make significant strides on finally crafting the Moot—my first legendary. I have been playing GW2 about as long as humanly possible, so for me to be that re-energized by one PvP season says something!

I had zero expectation they would remove clerics and thrash the build. How have I responded? I pre-ordered WoW: Legion, have PL’d three toons to 100 and I’m anxious waiting RBGs in a game I previously trashed on a regular basis.

I feel completely dirty and I desperately cling to hope I’ll find a new build of something that breaks my resentment over this development cycle. GW2 is way too awesome of a game to leave me disappointed to the extent I spend hundreds of dollars to be able to play a different game—especially in the wake of some actual content delivery in GW2.

TLDR: I am leaving my second favorite game all-time for freaking WoW. Totally sucks.

Permafrost.2695:

AFK jackholes in the upper tiers aside, I had a blast soloing to Legend division as a Guardian. I didn’t use meta battle, but I developed my own “bunker” type build that required clerics and cruised to a glorious enjoyable & successful season. I loved the experience so much that I have used this off-season to make significant strides on finally crafting the Moot—my first legendary. I have been playing GW2 about as long as humanly possible, so for me to be that re-energized by one PvP season says something!

I had zero expectation they would remove clerics and thrash the build. How have I responded? I pre-ordered WoW: Legion, have PL’d three toons to 100 and I’m anxious waiting RBGs in a game I previously trashed on a regular basis.

I feel completely dirty and I desperately cling to hope I’ll find a new build of something that breaks my resentment over this development cycle. GW2 is way too awesome of a game to leave me disappointed to the extent I spend hundreds of dollars to be able to play a different game—especially in the wake of some actual content delivery in GW2.

TLDR: I am leaving my second favorite game all-time for freaking WoW. Totally sucks.

If you’ve been playing gw2 since the beginning then you should have known that anet will periodically delete entire builds every few months from the game. One can only pray that it isn’t your build. Sometimes it feels like it’s completely random. 2 years ago condi mesmer was much better than power for roaming and it’s still the same now. Instead of buffing power mesmer like any sensible person would. They instead nerfed PU (which condi mesmer was also using) which also hurts power mesmers that use sword/torch and GS that use stealth + mirror blade bounce + shatter combo. Then they proceeded to buff scepter auto attack to have torment (yuck) and scepter 3 to have longer and more confusion stacks and also gave the ability for staff orbs to bounce even more using a certain trait so you can literally auto attack people to death using staff and scepter aa conditions.

In this patch, stealth attacks got nerfed for thief. It seems like a good change at first until you realize that it hurts d/d power thief the most which is already by far the weakest weaponset the thief has. The change to basil venom by making it 1 stack only also hurts d/d power thief the most because their burst relies on it. The reason they changed basil venom is to make venoms balanced when venomshare became baseline (another stupid change). Pure venomshare thief builds also got deleted this patch because any thief can share venoms now and venom effects were also nerfed to compensate, whereas before you had to spec into venomshare to share venoms but you had more powerful venoms.

tldr: anet will destroy builds in any random order even when they’re not op.

Scepter + Focus/GS is pretty good with the right sigils/rune/traits.

I’m going to drop a video on my thoughts later with gameplay from ranked

mrauls.6519:

Scepter + Focus/GS is pretty good with the right sigils/rune/traits.

I’m going to drop a video on my thoughts later with gameplay from ranked

I agree that the old meditation aoe burst DPS work great.

Even the 1v1 are sustainable for 30 sec or so versus most classes… it bring the ommpf need in team fights.

Guardian is now in a unstopable track of 16 months of uselessness in high level play and in the near future (if fails again in the next patch) is foreseeable for this class to rise as the absolute worst ever for PvP in this game, dehroning the old Warrior as a champion.

brannigan.9831:

I have to give A-net a lot of credit they made a bunch of changes to guardian and moved the ball forward a yard for them when it came to spvp viability. That kind of ineptitude is hard to find. If someone thinks Im wrong I’d like to see the builds I missing with these changes that are significantly better then what I could make a few days ago.

Hammer builds are significantly better than what it was a few days ago. Let alone the QoL changes as a whole.

I’d be surprised if we weren’t viable in higher tier pvp now.

Saiyan.1704:

brannigan.9831:

I have to give A-net a lot of credit they made a bunch of changes to guardian and moved the ball forward a yard for them when it came to spvp viability. That kind of ineptitude is hard to find. If someone thinks Im wrong I’d like to see the builds I missing with these changes that are significantly better then what I could make a few days ago.

Hammer builds are significantly better than what it was a few days ago. Let alone the QoL changes as a whole.

I’d be surprised if we weren’t viable in higher tier pvp now.

The problem with that, is that higher tier pvp players that played Guard are either on REV or Thief roamer dps or was on Tempest Ele.

Main guardian players in ESL team, are not main guard anymore.

Even if the burst would be better than thief and rev (which is not, the burst is better in aoe for sure), the mobility is still holding the dps build.

Bunker or support mender can’t do much in -1 situation except if they are pair with scrapper or druids… both of which can do 2v3 with any other classes that bring more DPS.

Unfortunately, with 5k games as Guardian, Scissors spots are for high mobility, high dps and paper spots for bruisers like condi bursters…

Rock got killed with Cleric removal.

My Heart would wish to get Guard viable. And to do so, we need a way to build for mobility on equal footing with thieves, rev (or mesmer).

When Medi DPS was META (october 2014 to january 2015), kitten (lol the player kitten got filtered), Ementon and Vallun played that a lot. Their role was to keep home and 1v1 on it versus thief backcapper.

At least, if one team would comp for a Medi DPS DH, it would be because he is better than druid, scrapper, warrior or mesmer to hold “HOME” while the other have the mobility to go on FAR too.

Jourdelune.7456:

Saiyan.1704:

brannigan.9831:

I have to give A-net a lot of credit they made a bunch of changes to guardian and moved the ball forward a yard for them when it came to spvp viability. That kind of ineptitude is hard to find. If someone thinks Im wrong I’d like to see the builds I missing with these changes that are significantly better then what I could make a few days ago.

Hammer builds are significantly better than what it was a few days ago. Let alone the QoL changes as a whole.

I’d be surprised if we weren’t viable in higher tier pvp now.

The problem with that, is that higher tier pvp players that played Guard are either on REV or Thief roamer dps or was on Tempest Ele.

Main guardian players in ESL team, are not main guard anymore.

Even if the burst would be better than thief and rev (which is not, the burst is better in aoe for sure), the mobility is still holding the dps build.

Bunker or support mender can’t do much in -1 situation except if they are pair with scrapper or druids… both of which can do 2v3 with any other classes that bring more DPS.

Unfortunately, with 5k games as Guardian, Scissors spots are for high mobility, high dps and paper spots for bruisers like condi bursters…

Rock got killed with Cleric removal.

My Heart would wish to get Guard viable. And to do so, we need a way to build for mobility on equal footing with thieves, rev (or mesmer).

When Medi DPS was META (october 2014 to january 2015), kitten (lol the player kitten got filtered), Ementon and Vallun played that a lot. Their role was to keep home and 1v1 on it versus thief backcapper.

At least, if one team would comp for a Medi DPS DH, it would be because he is better than druid, scrapper, warrior or mesmer to hold “HOME” while the other have the mobility to go on FAR too.

I saw Wakkey on Guard the other day… and kitten did he play the class well!

Guards haven’t been great 1v1 (node defenders/assaulters) in a really long time. Even now, we’re not the best as it. I’d argue that Mesmers, Wars, & Rangers do a better job. That said Guards have gotten lots better, able to sustain a hair longer for an adequate +1 now.

That role asside, our mid fight support with DH virtues and overall aoe damages may be more sought after than people realize. Especially now that Ele supports are out of meta. Our “support bruiser” archetype has a chance to take that 5th spot now.

Guardian as a whole will find a new role in some edge of the meta. There’s nothing wrong with that. I certainly hope it does for those who stick around! It’ll probably be fun. Someone may even pioneer a really awesome new thread of thought that brings me back in another season. That’s a best case scenario.

However, some of us have always REALLY enjoyed the Guardian’s ability to be a defensive anchor of a team. We’re understandably upset. ANET’s consistent approach to balance was to just delete amulets at a time. It’s not a great approach. Now, the most recent deletion finally cut out the heart of an entire preferred set of Guardian builds. No one was running to the hills begging for a nerf to these Guardians. Some people even argued these builds and the general play-style were trashy—belonged on the bottom rung. This isn’t D/D eles we’re talking about here.

Morever, I don’t need to see a hundred “L2P” posts. You’re just wrong and you never make a sound argument. You can’t tell someone they are incorrect when a personal preference that has existed for years has been shunted from the game. Furthermore, every time I make a well-reasoned response why the author is unqualified to make such a statement or the argument is invalid, I’m the one who gets moderated. Hooray for shady forum policies.

This patch has not only made the game less enjoyable, it’s also apparently pointless to even discuss it.

I have found Guardian has a huge power spike recently they are in a good spot and I don’t see why they couldn’t be played with coordinated teams aside form mobility as a DPS role.

guardian’s pure 1v1 on point fighting capacity is definitely on par with the meta bruisers now, but the mobility is nowhere near it.

and as such that’ll be the thing still holding it back in pro league.

I dont even have dragon hunter yet and I was running the sword/focus and scepter/torch build off metabattle and it was pretty good, I think it could use some tweaking but I was shocked.

Jourdelune.7456:

Saiyan.1704:

brannigan.9831:

I have to give A-net a lot of credit they made a bunch of changes to guardian and moved the ball forward a yard for them when it came to spvp viability. That kind of ineptitude is hard to find. If someone thinks Im wrong I’d like to see the builds I missing with these changes that are significantly better then what I could make a few days ago.

Hammer builds are significantly better than what it was a few days ago. Let alone the QoL changes as a whole.

I’d be surprised if we weren’t viable in higher tier pvp now.

The problem with that, is that higher tier pvp players that played Guard are either on REV or Thief roamer dps or was on Tempest Ele.

Main guardian players in ESL team, are not main guard anymore.

There is plenty of EU ESL guardian mains that usually played guardian in past seasons like Tage, Frae and Covis.

Tage only played guardian when oRNG fell apart and they were simply messing around without even TS and I don’t recall Frae on guardian even once in pro league matches.

Krysard.1364:

Jourdelune.7456:

Saiyan.1704:

brannigan.9831:

I have to give A-net a lot of credit they made a bunch of changes to guardian and moved the ball forward a yard for them when it came to spvp viability. That kind of ineptitude is hard to find. If someone thinks Im wrong I’d like to see the builds I missing with these changes that are significantly better then what I could make a few days ago.

Hammer builds are significantly better than what it was a few days ago. Let alone the QoL changes as a whole.

I’d be surprised if we weren’t viable in higher tier pvp now.

The problem with that, is that higher tier pvp players that played Guard are either on REV or Thief roamer dps or was on Tempest Ele.

Main guardian players in ESL team, are not main guard anymore.

There is plenty of EU ESL guardian mains that usually played guardian in past seasons like Tage, Frae and Covis.

Well… no. You are living pre-hot here. Show me link to matches played in ESL with guard on comp from season 1 (after meta settled in january).

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Bunker-Guard-is-Dead/first#post5691392

DH was a joke that never took off, because they don’t have the mobility for DPS roaming compare to thief, rev and mesmer (but power mesmer is dead).

DH for bruisers are not that great compare to Scrapper (new stomping machine), Mesmer condi (portal, moa), Reaper (cleaving machine with poisons!)…

By all means, it need some “game changer” either on mobility or support that would bring back Guard/DH at high end.

The support upgrade (CD reduce, sanctuary and stuff) is nice from the balance team and with the Cleric amulet, probably Bunker Guard would had made ESL play again.

Darknicrofia.2604:

Tage only played guardian when oRNG fell apart and they were simply messing around without even TS and I don’t recall Frae on guardian even once in pro league matches.

Jourdelune.7456:

Krysard.1364:

Jourdelune.7456:

Saiyan.1704:

brannigan.9831:

I have to give A-net a lot of credit they made a bunch of changes to guardian and moved the ball forward a yard for them when it came to spvp viability. That kind of ineptitude is hard to find. If someone thinks Im wrong I’d like to see the builds I missing with these changes that are significantly better then what I could make a few days ago.

Hammer builds are significantly better than what it was a few days ago. Let alone the QoL changes as a whole.

I’d be surprised if we weren’t viable in higher tier pvp now.

The problem with that, is that higher tier pvp players that played Guard are either on REV or Thief roamer dps or was on Tempest Ele.

Main guardian players in ESL team, are not main guard anymore.

There is plenty of EU ESL guardian mains that usually played guardian in past seasons like Tage, Frae and Covis.

Well… no. You are living pre-hot here. Show me link to matches played in ESL with guard on comp from season 1 (after meta settled in january).

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Bunker-Guard-is-Dead/first#post5691392

DH was a joke that never took off, because they don’t have the mobility for DPS roaming compare to thief, rev and mesmer (but power mesmer is dead).

DH for bruisers are not that great compare to Scrapper (new stomping machine), Mesmer condi (portal, moa), Reaper (cleaving machine with poisons!)…

By all means, it need some “game changer” either on mobility or support that would bring back Guard/DH at high end.

The support upgrade (CD reduce, sanctuary and stuff) is nice from the balance team and with the Cleric amulet, probably Bunker Guard would had made ESL play again.

Im talking on a daily basis, not Pro League. My point was, pro guard mains are still there and know how to rekt with it.

Krysard.1364:

Darknicrofia.2604:

Tage only played guardian when oRNG fell apart and they were simply messing around without even TS and I don’t recall Frae on guardian even once in pro league matches.

Jourdelune.7456:

Krysard.1364:

Jourdelune.7456:

Saiyan.1704:

brannigan.9831:

I have to give A-net a lot of credit they made a bunch of changes to guardian and moved the ball forward a yard for them when it came to spvp viability. That kind of ineptitude is hard to find. If someone thinks Im wrong I’d like to see the builds I missing with these changes that are significantly better then what I could make a few days ago.

Hammer builds are significantly better than what it was a few days ago. Let alone the QoL changes as a whole.

I’d be surprised if we weren’t viable in higher tier pvp now.

The problem with that, is that higher tier pvp players that played Guard are either on REV or Thief roamer dps or was on Tempest Ele.

Main guardian players in ESL team, are not main guard anymore.

There is plenty of EU ESL guardian mains that usually played guardian in past seasons like Tage, Frae and Covis.

Well… no. You are living pre-hot here. Show me link to matches played in ESL with guard on comp from season 1 (after meta settled in january).

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Bunker-Guard-is-Dead/first#post5691392

DH was a joke that never took off, because they don’t have the mobility for DPS roaming compare to thief, rev and mesmer (but power mesmer is dead).

DH for bruisers are not that great compare to Scrapper (new stomping machine), Mesmer condi (portal, moa), Reaper (cleaving machine with poisons!)…

By all means, it need some “game changer” either on mobility or support that would bring back Guard/DH at high end.

The support upgrade (CD reduce, sanctuary and stuff) is nice from the balance team and with the Cleric amulet, probably Bunker Guard would had made ESL play again.

Im talking on a daily basis, not Pro League. My point was, pro guard mains are still there and know how to rekt with it.

You are then, out of context here.

We are speaking about GUARD on META playing competitively for ESL.

One small change that will drastically improve Guardian’s would be to make Judge’s Intervention work like Blink.

Krysard.1364:

Bunker guard was never good tbh, so removing clerics isnt really a nerf. It may actually help medi DH to have a better time, excluding related buffs.

You don’t know what you are saying. Bunker guard wad the most OPEST build last season.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Krysard.1364:

Bunker guard was never good tbh, so removing clerics isnt really a nerf. It may actually help medi DH to have a better time, excluding related buffs.

You don’t know what you are saying. Bunker guard wad the most OPEST build last season.

Yo man, you always say that bunker guard was OP, Im starting to think that you’re not trolling

Krysard.1364:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Krysard.1364:

Bunker guard was never good tbh, so removing clerics isnt really a nerf. It may actually help medi DH to have a better time, excluding related buffs.

You don’t know what you are saying. Bunker guard wad the most OPEST build last season.

Yo man, you always say that bunker guard was OP, Im starting to think that you’re not trolling

Of course I wasn’t, last season I came to the point where I would rather 2 vs 1 against a necro and rev than 1 vs 1 against a bunker guard. I lost every single game against one.

-Insane node control
- Crazy res potential, 95% chance of rezzing downs
- can’t lose a 1 vs 1 at least against power build.

And much more!!

Needs more dawgs, yo.

phokus.8934:

One small change that will drastically improve Guardian’s would be to make Judge’s Intervention work like Blink.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference?

Razor.9872:

phokus.8934:

One small change that will drastically improve Guardian’s would be to make Judge’s Intervention work like Blink.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference?

Blink doesn’t require a target

mrauls.6519:

Razor.9872:

phokus.8934:

One small change that will drastically improve Guardian’s would be to make Judge’s Intervention work like Blink.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference?

Blink doesn’t require a target

Oh, interesting, I thought it did.

The more you know

DH is really strong right now. Give them more mobility on Symbol of Blades not requiring a target to move the player and you have a meta spec for seasons to come. DPS and defense wise, the class is fine.

Jourdelune.7456:

Krysard.1364:

Darknicrofia.2604:

Tage only played guardian when oRNG fell apart and they were simply messing around without even TS and I don’t recall Frae on guardian even once in pro league matches.

Jourdelune.7456:

Krysard.1364:

Jourdelune.7456:

Saiyan.1704:

brannigan.9831:

I have to give A-net a lot of credit they made a bunch of changes to guardian and moved the ball forward a yard for them when it came to spvp viability. That kind of ineptitude is hard to find. If someone thinks Im wrong I’d like to see the builds I missing with these changes that are significantly better then what I could make a few days ago.

Hammer builds are significantly better than what it was a few days ago. Let alone the QoL changes as a whole.

I’d be surprised if we weren’t viable in higher tier pvp now.

The problem with that, is that higher tier pvp players that played Guard are either on REV or Thief roamer dps or was on Tempest Ele.

Main guardian players in ESL team, are not main guard anymore.

There is plenty of EU ESL guardian mains that usually played guardian in past seasons like Tage, Frae and Covis.

Well… no. You are living pre-hot here. Show me link to matches played in ESL with guard on comp from season 1 (after meta settled in january).

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Bunker-Guard-is-Dead/first#post5691392

DH was a joke that never took off, because they don’t have the mobility for DPS roaming compare to thief, rev and mesmer (but power mesmer is dead).

DH for bruisers are not that great compare to Scrapper (new stomping machine), Mesmer condi (portal, moa), Reaper (cleaving machine with poisons!)…

By all means, it need some “game changer” either on mobility or support that would bring back Guard/DH at high end.

The support upgrade (CD reduce, sanctuary and stuff) is nice from the balance team and with the Cleric amulet, probably Bunker Guard would had made ESL play again.

Im talking on a daily basis, not Pro League. My point was, pro guard mains are still there and know how to rekt with it.

You are then, out of context here.

We are speaking about GUARD on META playing competitively for ESL.

Im not out of context. Next time try to read to what I was answering. You have said that Guard is not going to be played because theres no more PL guard mains. I’ve said that this is just not true.

EDIT: Replying again cause my old post got literally moderated for saying that typing in Caps was mean

I have to be honest. Guardian has seen good changes their damage is aoe and very high they actually do have movility if you want to waste a few medi and to top it off medi guardian has allot of sustainability. Guardian is in a great spot and I finally will play it more seriously.

TLDR: Guardian so fun now!

They didn’t fix guardian for high level play.

It lacks mobility, and any coordinated team isn’t going to stand in the traps, or fail to provide stability for one another, will pick it apart.

The mobility it lacks gets hit pretty hard when they try to contest a side node, because it’s easy for the class to run out of cooldowns very quickly, and not be prepared for a 1v2 scenario. Without that mobility, it has a harder time running away.

dustydawg.3105:

They didn’t fix guardian for high level play.

It lacks mobility, and any coordinated team isn’t going to stand in the traps, or fail to provide stability for one another, will pick it apart.

The mobility it lacks gets hit pretty hard when they try to contest a side node, because it’s easy for the class to run out of cooldowns very quickly, and not be prepared for a 1v2 scenario. Without that mobility, it has a harder time running away.

Only thing I agree is the ability to run out of cds fast. But if moderated, we can really perform well in team fights.

F2 & F3 changes absolutely help our survivability in competitive play. We can now quickly counterplay a burst when before, these two virtues hilariously got put on cd too easily.

Guards sustain quite well on side nodes. I’m talking long enough where if it’s not their node, there’s no point in assaulting it. Also, Shield#5, Hammer’s Banish, Hammer#5, LB#3 knockback, all have the potential to turn a node to neutral. It’s almost a definite vs Rangers, Engi, Ele, & Necro on point.

Mobility, that has always been more of a QoL issue in SPvP. WvW though, that’s a different story.

Saiyan.1704:

dustydawg.3105:

They didn’t fix guardian for high level play.

It lacks mobility, and any coordinated team isn’t going to stand in the traps, or fail to provide stability for one another, will pick it apart.

The mobility it lacks gets hit pretty hard when they try to contest a side node, because it’s easy for the class to run out of cooldowns very quickly, and not be prepared for a 1v2 scenario. Without that mobility, it has a harder time running away.

Only thing I agree is the ability to run out of cds fast. But if moderated, we can really perform well in team fights.

F2 & F3 changes absolutely help our survivability in competitive play. We can now quickly counterplay a burst when before, these two virtues hilariously got put on cd too easily.

Guards sustain quite well on side nodes. I’m talking long enough where if it’s not their node, there’s no point in assaulting it. Also, Shield#5, Hammer’s Banish, Hammer#5, LB#3 knockback, all have the potential to turn a node to neutral. It’s almost a definite vs Rangers, Engi, Ele, & Necro on point.

Mobility, that has always been more of a QoL issue in SPvP. WvW though, that’s a different story.

They have swiftness they have multiple leaps they can bring their fine on mobility and if they are arriving to a point that’s being decapped they have even more teleportation they can do. It is a trade off. Mobility or Build strength or in some cases, all it costs is skill cooldown.

lol , Do you try to use Scepter on your main hand? the auto attack DPS is become CRAZY.
I don’t believe Scepter is a “Long-Range Weapon” when i use it. Hope it is a bug.

Just had a team 3 vs 1 a guardian that lasted 3 minutes and put out some crazy damage. They will definitely see some competitive play if they arn’t nerfed.

Zelulose.8695:

Just had a team 3 vs 1 a guardian that lasted 3 minutes and put out some crazy damage. They will definitely see some competitive play if they arn’t nerfed.

You really can’t judge anything right now with the amount of bad play going on. Not that ranked is any clear indication of skill but it provides a better baseline to how well a build does thank unranked.

Zelulose.8695:

Just had a team 3 vs 1 a guardian that lasted 3 minutes and put out some crazy damage. They will definitely see some competitive play if they arn’t nerfed.

What Guardian build can handle a long 3v1, while doing insane damage, if the opponents aren’t devoid of skill? Honestly, the players would have to be so weak they couldn’t 2v1 a person not wearing an amulet.