Guild Wars 2

*Disclaimer – My post will consist of GW1 PvP. If you do not like GW1 PvP at all or think GW2 Pv kitten uperior in every way, shape, or form – This thread is not for you and I would appreciate it if you wouldn’t post.

Guild Wars 1 PvP (and the game itself for that matter) is a game type that is miles ahead of any existing game out there. There is no debating that. HoN, LoL, DotA2 are the only games that come remotely close to the PvP that GW1 provided.

Obviously the style of PvP, let alone the game mechanics ANET has chosen, in GW2 PvP is less favorable to people in general. A very small percentage of people enjoy GW2 PvP. The amount of people that are fans of GW2 PvP are dismal compared to the 8 year old PvP game Guild Wars 1.

With that being said…

Is there a huge technical barrier to implementing a seperate arena(s) that mimick and copy the exact style of Guild Wars 1 PvP? I am only bringing up this idea after this concept of the SAB was introduced to the game. The mode essentially showed that the game engine has a variety of capabilities and that you can modify numbers in the game very easily.

Is it feasible to introduce GvG? RA? AB? FA? JQ? HA?
Of course there would be a list of things to do to the game in those arenas:
Disable the Z-Axis/Jumping
Disable dodging
Enable click to move
Replace the weapon skills+current skills with GW1 skills.
Replace Traits with Attributes (From GW1)
Copy over existing GW1 maps (Update the graphics obviously).
Each character currently in GW2 essentially represents something in GW1 – Guardian’s obviously would play the monk role and engineers the ritualist role.

I don’t see the issue with this being implemented into the game – It would easily help bring a considerable PvP crowd to GW2 and it would also be a good base to build an eSport up like ANET originally had in GW1.

I don’t care about GW2 – Keep it in the game for the very few that like it. (Keep in mind with the current numbers in GW2 s/tPvP only 9-10 months after the release is a very sad reminder have how unsuccessful and appealing GW2 PvP has been).

As I stated before – I really don’t mind if you disagree with GW1 PvP in any way, shape, or form – But this thread isn’t a discussion about that. This thread is a discussion about implenting GW1 PvP into GW2 and the technicalities of it.

Thank you!

idk man. but you’re saying that you copypasta gw1 pvp on to gw2? basically gw1 on better graphics?

i smell an agenda. and im certain that those who still play gw1 will carry over their “skillz” to guild wars 2 to faceroll those who are just starting the game. That being guild wars 2, the circle will debase the 5v5 tPvP and hailing the 8v8 the pinnacle of the game. This will be akin to equating 5v5 tPvP to Tombs and only skilled players play 8v8.

Well, that’s giving advantage or favoring players. Sure the fast learners and the skilled players will follow suit but i don’t know, gw1 is an old formula. a legacy game which has been abandoned by many and was destroyed by so called skill balances.

what’s wrong with gw1 as is if you still want its mechanics wholely? I know. the spectators. they’re gone.

or prolly the graphics. i bet you want to play a big boned busty Norn thief ganking the Guild Lord.

There is no agenda. No personal bias due to my skill level at GW1. I have had no issues outplaying people in GW2. The problem is the gameplay is stale and boring.

I am not trying to debase any existing PvP. I am not intentionally trying to change the “pinnacle” of the game. If 5v5 gets debased or 8v8 is the pinnacle – That is because the playerbase has made the decision for that to happen. Just like the playerbase (and the playbase that decided to leave the game) decided the currently tPvP was a terrible pinnacle of a game.

Yes it is an old formula, but the gameplay is still superior. It was destroyed by the dev team while balancing skills. They do have the ability to balance those skills still. The only issue with GW1 is that the game is old. The game is still good, but old. And you can bet yourself that every diehard GW1 PvPer expected a similiar gameplay type in GW2.

Can we please keep this on topic to the technicalities of what I am asking?

I’m not sure porting over GW1 GvG would change much since it was still the same format as what we have now, capture node, kill guild lord.

Something about 8 player builds brought more group build diversity, as those that remember HA, Anet tried 6 players and it got reverted. Maybe 8 is that magic number that Anet just needs to suck up and make happen.

If anything were to be ported for GvG, it would have it’s best chance with the HA style multiple game modes randomized. At least it wouldn’t let one cookie cutter group comp dominate all the game formats hopefully.

Yeah, let’s disable dodging, jumping and bring in click to move.

Winner idea right there.

Valkyriez.6578:

Yeah, let’s disable dodging, jumping and bring in click to move.

Winner idea right there.

Just don’t forget that GW2 was hemorrhaging players few months after launch…

Good PvP is not coming back, PvE is more profitable.

Krakah.3582:

I’m not sure porting over GW1 GvG would change much since it was still the same format as what we have now, capture node, kill guild lord.

Something about 8 player builds brought more group build diversity, as those that remember HA, Anet tried 6 players and it got reverted. Maybe 8 is that magic number that Anet just needs to suck up and make happen.

If anything were to be ported for GvG, it would have it’s best chance with the HA style multiple game modes randomized. At least it wouldn’t let one cookie cutter group comp dominate all the game formats hopefully.

GvG in GW1 is very different than the current GW2 conquest. You have a central flag stand in GW1 but it functions very differently than a 3 giant circles people are required to stand in and play in.

6 players in HA in GW1 would be nice considering the amount of players still active.

HA and GvG should always be kept separate. You are correct in keeping the different map modes in HA though, it helped maintain some type of balance instead of a 1 build trumps all situation. GvG has always been based on skill and tactics (for the most part except the gimmicks) – It should stay that way.

Valkyriez.6578:

Yeah, let’s disable dodging, jumping and bring in click to move.

Winner idea right there.

The mechanics should be disabled for the GW1 PvP arenas and their implementation.

Please pay attention to the full post before making posts that make you look silly.

Spiuk.8421:

Good PvP is not coming back, PvE is more profitable.

I’m fully aware of the reality of that being the situation. However I still made this thread for theorycrafting purposes and plausibility on if ANET were to somehow become smart enough to decide to insert something like this into the game.

Now personally i’d be the happiest player if they did input gw1 style gvg in gw2, but that huge transition from one style of pvp to another is not going to lure much of the pve’rs. If gw2 pve players wanted to try out gvg, then they would have to re-learn everything from new mechanics, movements, and skills to even catch a glimpse of what’s goin on.

However, this would greatly increase the overall pvp player base as many gw1 and gw2 teams whom left would surely return. It’s just that the constant switch from gw1 and gw2 pvp would be extremely hard for new players to get into.

nice satire of ppl that want gw1 like fun.

myself included in that crowd.

I don’t think we all want gw1 copy pasta’d iI think we just want something with full team coordination, lines of combat, and skill bars that actually synergize because of well written ability rules instead of mehtastic field / finisher

…which basicaly translates to GW1 .
Derpderp

hi motoko
i don’t think this is a good use of anet’s time.
i too want to see gvg like in gw1, but i would not want to see a copypasta version of it and gw1’s professions in gw2.

instead, i’d like to see them take the fundamentals of gw1 & 2 and strip away all the casual pve mechanics. i’d like to see no dedicated support classes, but instead each class having viable support mechanics that are necessary to combat. currently, the best classes are self-sufficient — this is why teamplay doesn’t exist. i’d also like to see damage toned down across the board, as well as the removal of traits, the removal of stacking conditions, the removal of many gap closers & teleports, and the removal of the current attribute system and the re-introduction of the gw1 attribute system. combat pace should be identical to gw1. 6v6 combat with guild lords and flag stand and possibility to split/gank or stay together.

however, this is never going to happen, so i now still play gw1 gvg on quest days.

edit: also remove all the stupid ai-controlled clones/pets/minions/whatever, a great reduction & simplification of visual effects in fights, and re-introduction of meaningful interrupts. greatly simplify boon system to make each boon non-stackable, significant, and situational. i’m not sure if weapon-tied-skill system is good or not, i think it is interesting. however there need to be at least twice as many for each profession & elite skills need to be more interesting. also need energy back & all the energy management & denial tactics.

Definitely make an exclusive battle ground for 2 teams for like this to happen with secondary and tertiary objectives of Taking a Tower (aka killing the guild lord) and controling certain areas (aka taking flagstands). With 500-500 point system still. With sPvP gear customization.

It’s simple. Sure you still cannot test your reflexes like power blocking or dshotting infuse health but it’s ok.

alcopaul that has nothing to do with topic.

im presenting you a GvG mode using the current game. Not copy pastaing an old game to the game.

that is ZvZ

milo.6942:

that is ZvZ

imagine the map _is so big that the 20 man zerg will be split to 2 or 3. for there are secondary objectives as i said and it’s point system. and the size could be limited to 15. it’s not death match so different tactics will be developed.

And guilds can go up to 500 members. So ratio and proportion, you would want many people to participate on your guild wars.

it won’t be z versus z.

because the game lacks teamplay, anything more than 3 players can be objectively considered a zerg. also, it is exactly the mechanics of teamplay & tactics that were what made gvg what it was. you can’t just take gw2 and expect to achieve the same thing by increasing team size. what kind of logic is that

milo.6942:

because the game lacks teamplay, anything more than 3 players can be objectively considered a zerg. also, it is exactly the mechanics of teamplay & tactics that were what made gvg what it was. you can’t just take gw2 and expect to achieve the same thing by increasing team size. what kind of logic is that

gw1 team is 8 man for almost 8 years. so anything exceeding over that was never tested (though there was a party bug that was also patched that enabled to join gvgs on an 8+ party).

gw2 has different mechanics – character wise, game play wise. your reference of zerg is wvwvw, which i can understand. but if we confine 2 teams of 20-15 players on a big map with secondary and tertiary objectives and having a point system, you will see different tactics. you will encounter a 5 vs 5 skirmish on capping an area to gain points. or see 2 man team breaking the gates of the tower. or the other 5 team capping another area and skirmishing to gain some points or whatever. The other 8 roaming or whatever. or you can see a 20 man zerg sticking together and losing because they are inefficient on doing other objectives. then the teams will try to formulate efficient ways to gain points.

it’s like legacy of foefire, but larger and more massive and more fun. make it 1000 points.

it’s like mini-WvW but with less zerg.

And it’s Guild versus Guild. Because it’s 2 guilds fighting.

just replace world with guild. wvw = gvg.

EDIT: this reminds me of alliance battles. it was a good format but it was added later on way before GvG. if alliance battles came first and it was the game mode that is ladderized, this will be GW1 gvg.

Please stay on topic. This isn’t a discussion about turning WvW into GvG or trying to use the current mechanics of GW2 in a GvG format. – While it would be better than the current conquest – It still is not up to par of GW1 PvP.

8v8 was a great number for GvG ~ That number should not be changed.

Thank you everyone else for your support of the idea in the thread.

And yes I know the play styles are very different between the implementation of GW1 PvP into GW2 and GW2’s current PvP – But I can promise you – If GW1 PvP was implemented – I don’t think there would be a huge crowd rushing back to GW2 original PvP once GvG/HoH/RA is implemented.

Motoko.2875:

And yes I know the play styles are very different between the implementation of GW1 PvP into GW2 and GW2’s current PvP – But I can promise you – If GW1 PvP was implemented – I don’t think there would be a huge crowd rushing back to GW2 original PvP once GvG/HoH/RA is implemented.

But it would be a bad idea.

1.) Anything to revitalize GW1 sales will be moot since they basically copypasta-ed what will potentially be the reason to buy or return to GW1. Bad business decision.
2.) If conquest fails as an e-sport and be superceded by GW1 copypasta, that means that their product failed. For GW2 was marketed with Conquest as its main bundle.
3.) Incoming playerbase will be frustrated for they will think that competing in a game with players that basically knows the mechanics for 5 years is not fair.
4.) E-sports are easy to follow and easy to get into. There are countries where they can set basketball courts in the roads and alleys and they set up their own league. Conquest is easy to setup, easy to follow, easy to get into. GW1 PvP require prolly a year(?) to be at least decent. and what sucks is that you will be competing with people who played for more than 5 years. It’s not noob friendly.
5.) If GvG/HA/RA is still good, there should be people winning HoH up to now. Where are they now? In GW2. or in other games. People want new things, fresh.
6.) Notice the people who wants the old things to come back – the few old players. Business is business. Notice the most active threads in these forums and what are they talking about. a.net for sure will prioritize them more for they are the paying patrons who pay gems because of this new skins. But who would play GvG if they monetize GvG for the kitten of it, like paying 5 gems to play 2 GvGs and kitten.

This would be a huge undertaking and would probably only appeal to a very niche audience.

In other words, this will never happen.

alcopaul.2156:

But it would be a bad idea.

No it wouldn’t.

alcopaul.2156:

1.) Anything to revitalize GW1 sales will be moot since they basically copypasta-ed what will potentially be the reason to buy or return to GW1. Bad business decision.

This isn’t about revitalizing GW1 sales. This is about fixing the PvP in GW2 which, by majority opinion, sucks.

alcopaul.2156:

2.) If conquest fails as an e-sport and be superceded by GW1 copypasta, that means that their product failed. For GW2 was marketed with Conquest as its main bundle.

The PvP product has failed, have you not been paying attention to the past 9 months?

3.) Incoming playerbase will be frustrated for they will think that competing in a game with players that basically knows the mechanics for 5 years is not fair.

Everyone knew that when they bought GW2. New players expected an eSport scene and old players expected an advantage. It wouldn’t stop them at this point.

4.) E-sports are easy to follow and easy to get into. There are countries where they can set basketball courts in the roads and alleys and they set up their own league. Conquest is easy to setup, easy to follow, easy to get into. GW1 PvP require prolly a year(?) to be at least decent. and what sucks is that you will be competing with people who played for more than 5 years. It’s not noob friendly.

Who cares if it noob friendly or not? The entire GW1 PvE series spent its time practically teaching you to be prepared for PvP. Hence the name “Guild Wars”.
And guess what! You’re right – Conquest is easy to setup, follow, and get into – But guess what? It is stale, boring as hell, and people have quit the game because PvP has been such a large let down.

5.) If GvG/HA/RA is still good, there should be people winning HoH up to now. Where are they now? In GW2. or in other games. People want new things, fresh.

You’re right. Fresh. But the PvP died in GW1 due to some poor skill balancing – but also due to the GWWC trips being taken away as well as any real life prizes.

6.) Notice the people who wants the old things to come back – the few old players. Business is business. Notice the most active threads in these forums and what are they talking about. a.net for sure will prioritize them more for they are the paying patrons who pay gems because of this new skins. But who would play GvG if they monetize GvG for the kitten of it, like paying 5 gems to play 2 GvGs and kitten.

You don’t have a lot of threads created by people such as myself who know GW1 PvP has a future in GW2 because those people have left this game. No one would pay to play, that is stupid.

The more you post, the more it becomes clear as to why you never excelled at anything but IWAY. That build was easy to win with little or no skill. Being actually good at the game required quite a bit of intellect. And I can promise you that players who were good “back in the day” would most likely get stomped in today’s GvG.

Your entire post essentially supported what I have been saying. You just took a very biased standpoint and tried to defend it very poorly.

Dahkeus.8243:

This would be a huge undertaking and would probably only appeal to a very niche audience.

In other words, this will never happen.

It would appeal to a larger audience than what currently exists in the GW2 PvP section. When GW2 came out people expected something as good as GW1 PvP along with the eSport potential and the real life prizes and trips.

You can’t have an eSport with a PvP mode that isn’t fun or exciting.

Motoko.2875:

The more you post, the more it becomes clear as to why you never excelled at anything but IWAY. That build was easy to win with little or no skill. Being actually good at the game required quite a bit of intellect. And I can promise you that players who were good “back in the day” would most likely get stomped in today’s GvG.

Only 2 guilds were running IWAY when we put IWAY in GvG. The other guild was rank 400s and we managed to get rank 30s. (this was before [cute] started running). If there was no skill running IWAY, we would be with the same range as the other IWAY guild no? And we beat skilled people with what you claim a no-skill build. How is that even possible? that’s not sound logical because following logic, we should be always losing to skilled people.

Yes, i admit and it was evident (which frustrated some members of the guild who were expecting to branch out beyond iway) that we suck at running anything else but IWAY. But excelling in one field is not bad at all. This is why general practitioners specialize in cardiology or internal medicine.

And yo, today’s players sucked back in the day and will surely lose to player’s back in the day. And how would you beat people now from back in the day when they are not playing anymore? it’s not possible.

Way back, i personally play why i have malt liquor on my desk so as expected most of my intellect is on the back burner. I have a guildie who is drunk all the time when he plays GW1. 50% of the guild in the GvG branch was of legal age and there are times when they come home drunk and log on to GW1 and GvG (and our leader will just on a shouting rage when we perform badly which we understood because he’s inebriated).. So IWAY suits us. Get drunk and pwn. So there is no need to use most of our intellect so much. But we used some and it yielded results. Rank 30’s as i’ve said.

I agree with your post motoko. But you expect too much from the devs. PvP was on the release date of GW2 not even close to what you can call “complete”. And now there are about 4 ppl working on the PvP-side. If you look at all the issues that have to be fixed (leaderboards, proper soloq, reward-system etc.), it’s impossible to add other modes meanwhile.
I think we will see more modes in the future for sure. But this will take time.
I’m not defending A-Net in terms of what they released and called AAA-PvP. But we are in this frustrating situation now and we do what we can. (eg shoutcasters, promotions etc.). So be patience and hopfully we see a healthy pvp in 2014.

I’d like to see some other company capitalize on this situation & produce a quality pvp-only product similar to gw series to force anet to put up or shut up.

alcopaul.2156:

Only 2 guilds were running IWAY when we put IWAY in GvG. The other guild was rank 400s and we managed to get rank 30s. (this was before [cute] started running). If there was no skill running IWAY, we would be with the same range as the other IWAY guild no? And we beat skilled people with what you claim a no-skill build. How is that even possible? that’s not sound logical because following logic, we should be always losing to skilled people.

You had more skill with a skill-less build than other people had with a skill-less build. Simple. I am saddened you do not have a wide perception on this and that you are still trying to justify that IWAY was a quality build representative of skill.

alcopaul.2156:

And yo, today’s players sucked back in the day and will surely lose to player’s back in the day. And how would you beat people now from back in the day when they are not playing anymore? it’s not possible.

Haha, I am so glad you brought this up. People from way back in the day who were notable did come back for periods of time to play. The game requires more skill now. The game is faster paced. Those “old school” players who showed up couldn’t keep up. It was a huge disappointment to be honest. I formed a guild with several of them and I ended up leaving because they were so stubborn about their ways. They only lost more than usual at that point.

alcopaul.2156:

Way back, i personally play why i have malt liquor on my desk so as expected most of my intellect is on the back burner. I have a guildie who is drunk all the time when he plays GW1. 50% of the guild in the GvG branch was of legal age and there are times when they come home drunk and log on to GW1 and GvG (and our leader will just on a shouting rage when we perform badly which we understood because he’s inebriated).. So IWAY suits us. Get drunk and pwn. So there is no need to use most of our intellect so much. But we used some and it yielded results. Rank 30’s as i’ve said.

Yet ask anyone about MATH. “They ran IWAY” is about all you will get out of them. Not that they were great or good or amazing players. They ran IWAY. Rank or not that is all you ran and all you will be remembered for. So please stop trying to justify your skill level with it.

I agree with your post motoko. But you expect too much from the devs. PvP was on the release date of GW2 not even close to what you can call “complete”. And now there are about 4 ppl working on the PvP-side. If you look at all the issues that have to be fixed (leaderboards, proper soloq, reward-system etc.), it’s impossible to add other modes meanwhile.
I think we will see more modes in the future for sure. But this will take time.
I’m not defending A-Net in terms of what they released and called AAA-PvP. But we are in this frustrating situation now and we do what we can. (eg shoutcasters, promotions etc.). So be patience and hopfully we see a healthy pvp in 2014.

Sadly your post is true – I suppose I am fed up gambling with time to see if ANET develops intellect to correct their situation.

@Milo – 100% agree.

Motoko.2875:

Yet ask anyone about MATH. “They ran IWAY” is about all you will get out of them. Not that they were great or good or amazing players. They ran IWAY. Rank or not that is all you ran and all you will be remembered for. So please stop trying to justify your skill level with it.

I don’t profess that we’re more skilled than the teams we beat, nor we are more skilled than the one’s who ran balanced. I admitted that we were just a gimmick guild who just wanted to see our guild name everywhere all the time.

Our skill level may not justify what we did but one thing is sure, that we are still remembered (up to now as a matter of fact. i tried logging on RA last week and i was party chatted by someone who made a comment about our guild’s exploits in the Tombs) doing what we did, and that’s all that matters (to me at least).

See you don’t need to be amazing to be famous/notorious. But we were kinda amazing, in our own way, back then of course.

Motoko.2875:

Haha, I am so glad you brought this up. People from way back in the day who were notable did come back for periods of time to play. The game requires more skill now. The game is faster paced. Those “old school” players who showed up couldn’t keep up. It was a huge disappointment to be honest. I formed a guild with several of them and I ended up leaving because they were so stubborn about their ways. They only lost more than usual at that point.

Skill balances. And age. their formula didn’t work because they were used to their old ways. You can’t teach an old dog new tricks. It’s natural but it doesn’t take away the fact that they pwned back then, and while they pwned back then, the players who belittle them now were noobs back then.

it’s the fact of life. take an old aging boxer to the ring vs a young one and see who will lose. if you pit rocky marciano vs mike tyson when mike was in his prime, you’ll know who will lose. but the fact that rocky marciano retired undefeated makes him the greatest boxer of all time.

it’s the mark that you make that counts, not the things you can do.

alcopaul.2156:

Skill balances. And age. their formula didn’t work because they were used to their old ways. You can’t teach an old dog new tricks. It’s natural but it doesn’t take away the fact that they pwned back then, and while they pwned back then, the players who belittle them now were noobs back then.

Your argument is invalid. I was not playing competitive GvG when the “old dogs” were excelling.

Motoko.2875:

alcopaul.2156:

Skill balances. And age. their formula didn’t work because they were used to their old ways. You can’t teach an old dog new tricks. It’s natural but it doesn’t take away the fact that they pwned back then, and while they pwned back then, the players who belittle them now were noobs back then.

Your argument is invalid. I was not playing competitive GvG when the “old dogs” were excelling.

When you started, were you suddenly amazingly great immediately? sure when you started, these “old dogs” were still excelling or waning for they got bored or their build got struck by skill balance.

You got slammed give it a rest

Not copy-paste maybe…but dear god bring dam gvg and ha with some decent pvp fixes already….7 months and gw2 pvp still in beta testing..